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[Awaclus]

Oh ok. So you're saying you hammered someone you knew wasn't scum? Bold move.

I didn't know for sure that mail-mi wasn't scum, but I did know for sure that he wasn't town.

[jotheonah]

Alright, I think it's time for my big theory.

So I was thinking about e's theory that there are two survivors who are mirrors of each other -- one recruits odd nights, the other even, etc. So part of mail-mi's role was "vig". ... We know we have another vig. Another part of his role was "bulletproof". We don't know we have another one of those, but we do have someone who is lynchproof, which would be a cute "mirror".

So, what if ash is the other survivor? Per e's theory, the other survivor's cult should have at least one successful recruit by now. I think that's Awaclus, hence the sketchy hammer.

What has to be true if ash is the survivor? Either e was misled, or e lied. e has been pretty insistent about not being misled and there's nothing in mail-mi's role that suggests investigation immunity. That strongly points to scum!e.

Now, why would scum e! claim a town result on ashersky? It's a gambit, but one that worked out pretty well for him. Plus it leaves him the option of claiming full cop if he ever gets in hot water (full cops claiming 1-shot is considered an acceptable town lie).

ashersky knows e's result is fishy, and maybe even has concluded e is scummy, but he can't exactly say "wait, hold up, I'm not town".

Anyway, the main reason for ash to keep his identity secret was to stay safe from mail-mi's faction. And mail-mi is dead, with no recruits. So, ash and Awaclus, you can go ahead and claim, and then we can lynch e. Assuming of course, we believe the claim that the cult(s) win with town.

[Awaclus]

So, ash and Awaclus, you can go ahead and claim, and then we can lynch e.

I can't speak for ash but the part about me isn't true. I'm town and haven't been recruited for an alignment change.

[Glooble]

Alright, I think it's time for my big theory.

So I was thinking about e's theory that there are two survivors who are mirrors of each other -- one recruits odd nights, the other even, etc. So part of mail-mi's role was "vig". ... We know we have another vig. Another part of his role was "bulletproof". We don't know we have another one of those, but we do have someone who is lynchproof, which would be a cute "mirror".

So, what if ash is the other survivor? Per e's theory, the other survivor's cult should have at least one successful recruit by now. I think that's Awaclus, hence the sketchy hammer.

What has to be true if ash is the survivor? Either e was misled, or e lied. e has been pretty insistent about not being misled and there's nothing in mail-mi's role that suggests investigation immunity. That strongly points to scum!e.

Now, why would scum e! claim a town result on ashersky? It's a gambit, but one that worked out pretty well for him. Plus it leaves him the option of claiming full cop if he ever gets in hot water (full cops claiming 1-shot is considered an acceptable town lie).

ashersky knows e's result is fishy, and maybe even has concluded e is scummy, but he can't exactly say "wait, hold up, I'm not town".

Anyway, the main reason for ash to keep his identity secret was to stay safe from mail-mi's faction. And mail-mi is dead, with no recruits. So, ash and Awaclus, you can go ahead and claim, and then we can lynch e. Assuming of course, we believe the claim that the cult(s) win with town.

I suggested yesterday that Ash might be the cult leader and everyone ignored it.

[Glooble]

Alternatiely. Ash could be the cult leader, and e her starting cult member. That would make perfect sense with her powers- lynchproof is great for a character whose death would result in the death of a whole faction. 1-shot vig is great for the leader of a faction who needs one specific town player to die in order to fulfill their win-con.

Did you miss this, joth?

[jotheonah]

Alternately. Ash could be the cult leader, and e her starting cult member. That would make perfect sense with her powers- lynchproof is great for a character whose death would result in the death of a whole faction. 1-shot vig is great for the leader of a faction who needs one specific town player to die in order to fulfill their win-con.

Did you miss this, joth?

I forgot about it, but I guess we're thinking alike again. But e can't be the recruit if ash is an even-night cult leader. e made the claim on Day 2.

[Glooble]

Alternately. Ash could be the cult leader, and e her starting cult member. That would make perfect sense with her powers- lynchproof is great for a character whose death would result in the death of a whole faction. 1-shot vig is great for the leader of a faction who needs one specific town player to die in order to fulfill their win-con.

Did you miss this, joth?

I forgot about it, but I guess we're thinking alike again. But e can't be the recruit if ash is an even-night cult leader. e made the claim on Day 2.

True, though we didn't have that information then.

Any thoughts on LaLight's behavior toward Robz?

[jotheonah]

Alternately. Ash could be the cult leader, and e her starting cult member. That would make perfect sense with her powers- lynchproof is great for a character whose death would result in the death of a whole faction. 1-shot vig is great for the leader of a faction who needs one specific town player to die in order to fulfill their win-con.

Did you miss this, joth?

I forgot about it, but I guess we're thinking alike again. But e can't be the recruit if ash is an even-night cult leader. e made the claim on Day 2.

True, though we didn't have that information then.

Any thoughts on LaLight's behavior toward Robz?

It's consistent with how LaLight plays scum to engineer minor interactions with partners early on. But I don't think it's a strong tell in either direction.

[jotheonah]

Okay.

I am not Ifian Wos. I am Anaaner Mianaai. I tried to recruit hypercube on N1. Everything that she said about my role is true--I win with town, and I must also be the only Anaander Mianaai left alive to win. From the wording in my PM, it seems like the other Anaander Mianaai does not win with town.

The reason that I claimed odd-night cop is that I can only recruit people on odd nights. There are 2 ways that I can recruit people: either I can try to force them into it or try to convince them to join me. If I use the first option, the player is given a choice: either join me, or die at the end of the day. If I use the second option, a QT opens up between me and them during the next day, wherein I can try to persuade them to join me.

My power does not work on non-Radch aligned people. I was planning on using it as a copping power--that's why I targeted hypercube. If she joined me, I knew that she had been town. If she didn't join me and didn't die, then I knew she is scum. However she decided to die instead, which is super lame.

tl;dr I win with town. We need to find the scum and not waste a lynch here. Also I'm pretty sure the other Anaander Mianaai(s) don't win with the town, though I'm not certain on that.

I should add that I can win ONLY with town. My wincon says the same thing as the town PM, except with the added part that the other Anaander Mianaai must be dead.

This suggests to me that the other Aanander is not scum, since, if she were, mail-mi's win condition would be identical to town's.

[jotheonah]

It's also worth noting that in mail-mi's claim, he said his power actually could be used as a cop ability, albeit a slow one. So that's another thing it would have been nice to consider before hammering him, Awaclus.

[Glooble]

vote: Awaclus while acknowledging that this also makes me look very bad for not unvoting when I could have saved mail-mi.


I have to admit the "keep mail-mi alive to use her as a cop" angle didn't occur to me. I could see it also not occurring to Awaclus who has been pretty adamant that the cult is not pro-town despite all evidence to the contrary. On the other hand, I feel kind of silly for overlooking that part of mail-mi's claim, and I think it's equally, if not more likely, that scum!Awaclus saw an opportunity to wipe out an investigative role with cover and took it.


Combine with Awaclus's behavior in the lead up to the LaLight lynch, which I still find scummy.


I like this better than UoS.

[Awaclus]

vote: Awaclus while acknowledging that this also makes me look very bad for not unvoting when I could have saved mail-mi.


I have to admit the "keep mail-mi alive to use her as a cop" angle didn't occur to me. I could see it also not occurring to Awaclus who has been pretty adamant that the cult is not pro-town despite all evidence to the contrary. On the other hand, I feel kind of silly for overlooking that part of mail-mi's claim, and I think it's equally, if not more likely, that scum!Awaclus saw an opportunity to wipe out an investigative role with cover and took it.


Combine with Awaclus's behavior in the lead up to the LaLight lynch, which I still find scummy.


I like this better than UoS.

There was no reason to believe that he really had a cop ability.

[Awaclus]

If anything, the fact that "keep mail-mi alive to use her as a cop" angle occurred to joth makes joth more suspicious.

[jotheonah]

The point I'm making is that there were myriad good reasons not to quickhammer there. And no good reasons to quickhammer.

[Awaclus]

The point I'm making is that there were myriad good reasons not to quickhammer there. And no good reasons to quickhammer.

There was a good reason to quickhammer: we got a confirmed non-townie lynched. He was clearly trying to manipulate people into unvoting him, and I had no way of knowing whether or not he had partners on his wagon that would unvote and pretend to have been convinced by his claim, so I took the opportunity while I had it.

[Glooble]

vote: Awaclus while acknowledging that this also makes me look very bad for not unvoting when I could have saved mail-mi.


I have to admit the "keep mail-mi alive to use her as a cop" angle didn't occur to me. I could see it also not occurring to Awaclus who has been pretty adamant that the cult is not pro-town despite all evidence to the contrary. On the other hand, I feel kind of silly for overlooking that part of mail-mi's claim, and I think it's equally, if not more likely, that scum!Awaclus saw an opportunity to wipe out an investigative role with cover and took it.


Combine with Awaclus's behavior in the lead up to the LaLight lynch, which I still find scummy.


I like this better than UoS.

There was no reason to believe that he really had a cop ability.

Except we kinda know that she did.

She tried to recruit hypercube, hypercube refused, hypercube died. All that is known information. The only thing we don't know is what happens if she tries to recruit scum. So think about it.

If the power worked the same way for scum as it does for town it would be extremely broken, especially considering we might have two of them in the game. So it seems pretty obvious that it doesn't work on scum. So if someone refused the alignment change, but survived, mail-mi would know that person was scum.

[jotheonah]

Wait I just thought of kind of a big problem with my own ash theory. Never mind about any of it, it's probably wrong.

[Awaclus]

Except we kinda know that she did.

She tried to recruit hypercube, hypercube refused, hypercube died. All that is known information. The only thing we don't know is what happens if she tries to recruit scum. So think about it.

If the power worked the same way for scum as it does for town it would be extremely broken, especially considering we might have two of them in the game. So it seems pretty obvious that it doesn't work on scum. So if someone refused the alignment change, but survived, mail-mi would know that person was scum.

Why would a cop be less broken than a vig?

[Glooble]

Except we kinda know that she did.

She tried to recruit hypercube, hypercube refused, hypercube died. All that is known information. The only thing we don't know is what happens if she tries to recruit scum. So think about it.

If the power worked the same way for scum as it does for town it would be extremely broken, especially considering we might have two of them in the game. So it seems pretty obvious that it doesn't work on scum. So if someone refused the alignment change, but survived, mail-mi would know that person was scum.

Why would a cop be less broken than a vig?

If it worked the same way for scum as it does for town it would be a big. It would either kill scum or convert them to a town-aligned faction. Either way it eliminates one scum.

[Glooble]

Sorry, vig, not big.

[Awaclus]

I think it's pretty ridiculous that you're accusing me of being scum or cult or something for hammering mail-mi when both of you joined the wagon when he was still a claimed town cop and I joined it after he changed his claim into non-town.

[Awaclus]

Except we kinda know that she did.

She tried to recruit hypercube, hypercube refused, hypercube died. All that is known information. The only thing we don't know is what happens if she tries to recruit scum. So think about it.

If the power worked the same way for scum as it does for town it would be extremely broken, especially considering we might have two of them in the game. So it seems pretty obvious that it doesn't work on scum. So if someone refused the alignment change, but survived, mail-mi would know that person was scum.

Why would a cop be less broken than a vig?

If it worked the same way for scum as it does for town it would be a big. It would either kill scum or convert them to a town-aligned faction. Either way it eliminates one scum.

TIL vigs are more powerful than cops.

[jotheonah]

I think it's pretty ridiculous that you're accusing me of being scum or cult or something for hammering mail-mi when both of you joined the wagon when he was still a claimed town cop and I joined it after he changed his claim into non-town.

You are really cherry-picking a lot with your language to avoid dealing with the reality that you hammered someone you didn't think was part of the scum team. Why is non-town here so much more relevant than non-scum?

More to the point, I voted after a scummy, not-believable cop claim. You voted after a much more believable third-party claim and didn't give the town much chance to consider the implications of that claim. This is despite many people saying many times throughout the day that we shouldn't be cult-hunting and should be trying to use our lynches on scum.

[Awaclus]

You are really cherry-picking a lot with your language to avoid dealing with the reality that you hammered someone you didn't think was part of the scum team. Why is non-town here so much more relevant than non-scum?

More to the point, I voted after a scummy, not-believable cop claim. You voted after a much more believable third-party claim and didn't give the town much chance to consider the implications of that claim. This is despite many people saying many times throughout the day that we shouldn't be cult-hunting and should be trying to use our lynches on scum.

I didn't think he was a part of the scum team, but I also didn't know for sure that he wasn't, I only knew for sure that he was non-town. That's why the non-town here is so much more relevant.

I gave town (myself) as much chance to consider the implications of that claim as I needed.

[jotheonah]

You are really cherry-picking a lot with your language to avoid dealing with the reality that you hammered someone you didn't think was part of the scum team. Why is non-town here so much more relevant than non-scum?

More to the point, I voted after a scummy, not-believable cop claim. You voted after a much more believable third-party claim and didn't give the town much chance to consider the implications of that claim. This is despite many people saying many times throughout the day that we shouldn't be cult-hunting and should be trying to use our lynches on scum.

I didn't think he was a part of the scum team, but I also didn't know for sure that he wasn't, I only knew for sure that he was non-town. That's why the non-town here is so much more relevant.

I gave town (myself) as much chance to consider the implications of that claim as I needed.

TIL Awaclus is not only town, but the whole town. What are the rest of us even doing here?