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[WestCoastDidds]

E, any sense of what they long-ass role means? What is semi-loyal vig?

And we're assuming that we're free of the 3rd party because none of her recruits died?

[jotheonah]

Also, seeing mail-mi's full role description (talk about a long role-name/description) is that it seems like we are safe from any cult/3rd alignment at this point. I think we are likely at 8 players, 2 scum 6 town. No more funky alignment changes or third parties. I hope

What about Awaclus though? That was a suspicious and not necessarily pro-town hammer.

[jotheonah]

Loyal is a modifier that means your power won't work if you target your own faction, I believe. Which is pretty confusing in this context.

[2.71828.....]

E, any sense of what they long-ass role means? What is semi-loyal vig?

And we're assuming that we're free of the 3rd party because none of her recruits died?

1) semi-loyal vig- no clue
2) free of 3rd party because it said odd night cult leader, we saw hyper die D2 after recruitment N1 and then mail-mi was lynched before recruiting N3

[jotheonah]

Well in a sense mail-mi vigged hypercube. Maybe that's what semi-loyal vig means.

[2.71828.....]

Well I tried. Good luck town and other anaander mianaai!

Also btw the other anaander mianaai is probably town. I was just saying that to try to get y'all to kill her.

And yeah, I guess there might be another 3rd party player? Maybe with opposite powers? Even night recruit, semi-loyal vig.....?

[2.71828.....]

But if there is another anaander mianaai person that is town (ish?) that recruited N2 then the recruitment was likely successful?

This is all pure speculation at this point.

So if they are like what hypercube was recruited to they only win when town wins, not scum.

So I think the recruitee should claim, which makes them cult-aligned-winning-with-town IC.

So we could be 2 other, 4 town, 2 scum

[2.71828.....]

Basically two survivors who win with town, but lose if the other one is still alive.

I like it as a mechanic. Simple, elegant

[Glooble]

Also, seeing mail-mi's full role description (talk about a long role-name/description) is that it seems like we are safe from any cult/3rd alignment at this point. I think we are likely at 8 players, 2 scum 6 town. No more funky alignment changes or third parties. I hope

What about Awaclus though? That was a suspicious and not necessarily pro-town hammer.

But if there is another anaander mianaai person that is town (ish?) that recruited N2 then the recruitment was likely successful?

This is all pure speculation at this point.

So if they are like what hypercube was recruited to they only win when town wins, not scum.

So I think the recruitee should claim, which makes them cult-aligned-winning-with-town IC.

So we could be 2 other, 4 town, 2 scum

e's theory would easily explain joth's question - and why Awaclus has been so eager to cult-hunt all game.

[jotheonah]

I have a different theory that fits all the facts, but I'm going to sit on it at least until ash and UoS show up and say hi.

[Awaclus]

What about Awaclus though? That was a suspicious and not necessarily pro-town hammer.

It was a pro-town hammer.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm pretty sure she (or Robz) targeted me night 1 with her "Enabler" power, though it didn't end up mattering.

Haddock replaced in for Galz during D1. Umbrage replaced in for Robz during D3. So unless you think Umbrage is also an enabler, I think you're confused over the subs here!

[SpaceAnemone]

I am still firmly in the Space=town camp. In our discussions she was onto LL from early in D2, and the only reason she (and I) didn't vote is that it would have ended the day early. I don't know why she would have risked that if she was scum and we know that LL was (likely) the biggest baddest scum role. She could easily have just kept talking about someone else if she was hoping to lynch town.

This is true, but obviously I'd say so!

The thing that bothered me about LL's claim right off the bat was that I didn't see how the meaning of "bugged" fit with the effect he described.

[Glooble]

I'm pretty sure she (or Robz) targeted me night 1 with her "Enabler" power, though it didn't end up mattering.

Haddock replaced in for Galz during D1. Umbrage replaced in for Robz during D3. So unless you think Umbrage is also an enabler, I think you're confused over the subs here!

I was confused. Thanks.

[SpaceAnemone]

Also yeah, we have 1 dead scum, ladies. If we count the cult as town that's 2 scum out of 10 players, so 2 mislynches and a no-lynch before 5 player LYLO, and that's worst case. We shouldn't claim today.

If Ash dayvigs town that's just the no-lynch and we still shouldn't claim.

Ok, this is a weird post. This was after the LaLight flip. Why is UoS treating it like a given that there are 3 scum? I don't believe it was ever stated. I know we throw the word around waaaaay too much, but ... scumslip?

It's a good point, though I guess I've been subconsciously assuming 3 scums, and looking for partnery interactions (or lack of interactions) between pairs of remaining people, so I think it's quite a natural assumption to make. I certainly prefer this as a component of a case against Umbrage over calls to vote him just because he hasn't done much... I'm pretty sure it's too late in the game to be considering lurker lynches on principle.

[SpaceAnemone]

But I also think Haddock was a pretty good choice for scum to make, given that she was very unlikely to be a mislynch (almost no suspicion on her all game)

This I disagree on. Haddock was not cleared in any way. If I were scum, I think Haddock would be a prime candidate for a mislynch. I'm actually a little glad she was the nightkill because it's one less null read I have to look at today.

Hmmm... Another reason not to kill e is that it makes ash into a real IC. And I think people who have been around a while would be scared to death of IC ash.

I think that Haddock was on the townier end of the spectrum, but I can pretty much find reasons to suspect everyone at this point. The fact he backed down from pushing me earlier was major townpoints in his favour from my point of view, because scum!Haddock would know I can actually catch him with my mildly-obsessive wagon methods, whether he wants to agree with them or not.

I think it's important to remember that e flipping green would not completely IC Ash, unless e can explain how he knows that nothing like a redirect or other-PR-interaction could have given him a false reading. Even then we have the possibility that scum!Ash is a godfather. It's not that uncommon a trait for scum to have, even in normal games, so I don't think it's terribly unlikely for a scum player in an RMM to have it, is it?

[SpaceAnemone]

At the end of D3, UoS said we needed to do a full LL re-read.  I did that. I'll post it if we think we need it, but I don't want to clutter the thread with a huge post if its not necessary.

Be careful of the quoting rule, if it's from notes you've already made.

I think posting the kind of re-read where you just quote things LL said isn't useful, but a summary of conclusions from the re-read, with post numbers people can go and look up if they want to, is helpful for people who might have drawn different conclusions about the same interactions.

[Awaclus]

As far as the usefulness of long posts is concerned: the shorter it is, the more likely it is I'm going to read it.

[SpaceAnemone]

Basically two survivors who win with town, but lose if the other one is still alive.

I like it as a mechanic. Simple, elegant

In your scenario, could the cult win without town, if the rest of us are dead or converted, but they still manage to kill LL's faction?

[Glooble]

Basically two survivors who win with town, but lose if the other one is still alive.

I like it as a mechanic. Simple, elegant

In your scenario, could the cult win without town, if the rest of us are dead or converted, but they still manage to kill LL's faction?

According to hypercube, they still need to eliminate all enemies of the Radch.

[WestCoastDidds]

I did not find the LaLight reread very helpful. Up until she made the wackadoodle claim and backtracking revision, she was pretty innocuous. Although there was that section where she was confused about why the day ended early (Ashersky double hated), and then quite a bit of discussion about why Hyper didn't take the deal and stay alive (643).

Here is how and where she voted, if it helps to track her thoughts

#50- votes Mail-mi
#52- votes 2.718...
#191- votes Jotheonah
#233- votes Glooble
#271- votes Jotheonah
#401- votes Ash

________ D2

#588-votes 2.718...
#640-votes Robz (who is now UoS)
#665-votes 2.718
#672- makes the claim that he is A Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor
#896-votes Mail-mi
#908- votes LaLight to end the D2

[UmbrageOfSnow]

On N1, how likely is it that mail-mi was the NK target? Like did she seem especially towny or PR-y at the time compared to everyone else?

Normally I don't think of mail-mi as a likely early NK target (no offense dead mail-mi), but was the general feeling in the game that that made more sense at the time?

[Glooble]

On N1, how likely is it that mail-mi was the NK target? Like did she seem especially towny or PR-y at the time compared to everyone else?

Normally I don't think of mail-mi as a likely early NK target (no offense dead mail-mi), but was the general feeling in the game that that made more sense at the time?

I think there was a fair amount of suspicion on mail-mi day 1. Probably not an especially tempting NK target. But Space might have been.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Ok, this is a weird post. This was after the LaLight flip. Why is UoS treating it like a given that there are 3 scum? I don't believe it was ever stated. I know we throw the word around waaaaay too much, but ... scumslip?

Because 13 players is going to be 3v10 the vast majority of the time. When I saw the game had 14 players in signups, I immediately assumed either
a) SK + 3 scum + 10 town
b) 3 scum + 11 town with a vig shot and a lot of scum power
c) 2 scum + 2 scum, + 10 town
Especially with RMM you can balance around other things, but those ratios are really hard to make a good game around and RMM is complicated. 4 team scum and 10 town is TERRIBLE for town, 2 team scum is TERRIBLE for scum.

3 scum is basically a given once it's clear we don't have 2 NKs every night, and the mostly-town cult wasn't going to change that.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

On N1, how likely is it that mail-mi was the NK target? Like did she seem especially towny or PR-y at the time compared to everyone else?

Normally I don't think of mail-mi as a likely early NK target (no offense dead mail-mi), but was the general feeling in the game that that made more sense at the time?

I think there was a fair amount of suspicion on mail-mi day 1. Probably not an especially tempting NK target. But Space might have been.

Yeah, I'm checking that I'm not crazy for just dismissing the chances that mail-mi's BP was the reason for the lack of NK. Thanks.