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[ashersky]

Oh, and also, it is very difficult to imagine a situation where town dying is better than scum hearing a town player’s claim. SA refusing to claim under those pretenses is scummy or misguided, and I think all agree SA is too intelligent to be the latter.

In case it didn’t work, vote: Glooble.

[Glooble]

Oh, and also, it is very difficult to imagine a situation where town dying is better than scum hearing a town player’s claim. SA refusing to claim under those pretenses is scummy or misguided, and I think all agree SA is too intelligent to be the latter.

In case it didn’t work, vote: Glooble.

I am confused. You are voting for me for... agreeing with you? I literally said exactly what you just said to Space.

[SpaceAnemone]

Okay, full claim from me first, then the actual interesting stuff in a following post.

I'm Fosyf Denche, the wealthy land-owner. I'm Radch-aligned, and I have an x-shot power called Political Understanding, which is a modified voyeur. I get the names of any actions that target my target player that night, but in return that player is rendered invisible to certain other investigative actions that I still don't have a categorical understanding of. I've checked that I can't self-target, which is important for later.

N1 I targeted e, and got no result. This is consistent with WCD's original assertion.

N2 I targeted Glooble, and the result was that there were no Glooble-targeting actions to report. (Paraphrasing this quite a bit, but I know it was distinct to the response I got on e).

I've tried to pick townie-to-null targets so as not to interfere with other townie investigations, but not the most super-towny, because observing the NK is of limited utility.

[SpaceAnemone]

Now the interesting part, because stuff with WCD is adding up less and less.

WCD opened a QT with me that lasted over the course of D2.

In that QT, her description of her role made sense to me, but does not now line up with what she's saying in the thread here.

I want to say more, but I'm going to run stuff past faust in case reporting what WCD told me comes too close to the quoting rule.

Needless to say, the attempt at getting better wagon analysis near the end of the day was a coordinated effort by the two of us, at my suggestion.

[jotheonah]

ash, I don’t understand why you moved your vote there either.

Space, that’s really interesting. Doesn’t really explain why you didn’t want to claim though? And doesn’t really affect my willingness to lynch you.

Mail-mi, I can’t answr your question without making it a moot point. Sorry. If you don’t want to share I guess that’s fine. At this point I think knowing the AI-ness and not Ai-ness of any given player would be very helpful and protown for me, but I can’t guarantee that having that info out in the open wouldn’t be good for scum.

PPE: Your second post. Ok. unvote. I’m into this.

[jotheonah]

FYI: Glooble will be at my house for an MtG draft from about 1 to 6 forum time. So I assume we won’t be on here (and of course won’t discuss the game).

[WestCoastDidds]

I can verify that I opened a QT with Space D2 and that we talked throughout the day. I had a QT with Swan N2. This is how I know who he targeted and why I wasn’t able to tell Space that she had been JK’ed until today. I would have a QT with Swan today if he had not been killed.

I can have a QT with one person at a time. I have chosen people that I know and who I think are town to talk with because I am Radch-aligned and hope to maximize our chance of success.

I believe that there is probably someone else who is town who has this ability.

[WestCoastDidds]

Joth, can you tell me why it helps to know AI matters?

[WestCoastDidds]

I can verify that I opened a QT with Space D2 and that we talked throughout the day. I had a QT with Swan N2. This is how I know who he targeted and why I wasn’t able to tell Space that she had been JK’ed until today. I would have a QT with Swan today if he had not been killed.

I can have a QT with one person at a time. I have chosen people that I know and who I think are town to talk with because I am Radch-aligned and hope to maximize our chance of success.

I believe that there is probably someone else who is town who has this ability.

Oh yeah, I did not have a QT on N1 because the day ended before I submitted a target.
So N1= no one
D2 = Space
N2= Swan
D2= Swan
 
I think that LL was an AI because Breq was. So, I’m asking about why the AI status matters.

[SpaceAnemone]

@WCD, why did you re-target Swan?

[WestCoastDidds]

Space knows a couple of other details about my role, but I’m not sure if I should share or no. Space, what do you think?

[jotheonah]

Joth, can you tell me why it helps to know AI matters?

My role is potentially useful in both protective and destructive ways but only works on one subset of AI or non-AI. I won’t say which one because WIFOM.

[WestCoastDidds]

@WCD, why did you re-target Swan?

She suggested that I should. She did not see the message about the QT until we were 24 or so hours into the night, so we started off a bit behind and she had lots of good ideas about how we could leverage a 3 person town-team (Space, Swan, Didds) to good effect. And, as you know, I was nervous about targeting someone to talk that might not be town. I knew that Swan was town when he told me about his role.

[Haddock]

This recent news explains a lot.
It also makes wcd look townier to me.

I'm not sure it does a whole lot to make space look townier.
Some, but not a whole lot. I will wait to see what they have to say regarding the qt contents.

I'd also like to know what they mean by "attempt at getting better wagon analysis". What was the plan there?

[SpaceAnemone]

Space knows a couple of other details about my role, but I’m not sure if I should share or no. Space, what do you think?

Haha.. forgive me for getting super-paranoid from up here on the block, but yes, you did tell me some stuff, and it got me very worried because you appeared to contradict it with what you said about Swan! That's what I wanted to talk about in the QT stuff I was/am going to post.

However, all but the initial mystery of it would be explained by you re-targeting Swan for D3 after talking D2. I didn't consider that as an option enough because I think I'd have wanted to keep picking new targets for a bit longer first.

[WestCoastDidds]

This recent news explains a lot.
It also makes wcd look townier to me.

I'm not sure it does a whole lot to make space look townier.
Some, but not a whole lot. I will wait to see what they have to say regarding the qt contents.

I'd also like to know what they mean by "attempt at getting better wagon analysis". What was the plan there?

The wagon analysis is what we have both said elsewhere. We tried to create an alternate wagon out of nowhere, and then both got on it thinking that whoever else got on it were likely scum. LL did, so we were right.

We were going to try to make it a fairly towny player...Glooble was our idea, but when Space started working that angle you were not having it and she got caught in her own logic. So, I went with MM. At the time, I found him null (as did Space, I think) which was the point. Now I think he is scummy.

Swan was not as invested in Space as I was. I feel like our interaction over the course of the week was towny.

[WestCoastDidds]

Space knows a couple of other details about my role, but I’m not sure if I should share or no. Space, what do you think?

Haha.. forgive me for getting super-paranoid from up here on the block, but yes, you did tell me some stuff, and it got me very worried because you appeared to contradict it with what you said about Swan! That's what I wanted to talk about in the QT stuff I was/am going to post.

However, all but the initial mystery of it would be explained by you re-targeting Swan for D3 after talking D2. I didn't consider that as an option enough because I think I'd have wanted to keep picking new targets for a bit longer first.

Yes, I figured you were a bit freaked out on the block. I tried to word my information carefully to help you figure it out...I “learned” that you had been JK’ed.

Feel free to share whatever from the QT that is allowed.

Swan thought I should bring exactly one more player onto the team and had some good reasons why...4 being the critical mass of folks of being able to win.

[Glooble]

vote: ashersky

We’ve been excusing a lot of blatantly anti-town behavior because of a cop claim (which could be faked in multiple ways) and setup WIFOM.  But none of that excuses pushing for a quick lynch when we still have three days until the deadline. If ash had another shot she would have fired it by now. She’s contributed minimally in terms of scumhunting or starting wagons, instead coming in on already established ones or voting for me for nonsensical reasons.

Well at this point I’m more of an IC than ash is. I started the LL lynch and you can’t argue a scum would do that.

I’m a lot less certain about Space after these claims, but I’m a lot more certain about ash after her attempts to prevent them.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'd also like to know what they mean by "attempt at getting better wagon analysis". What was the plan there?

Here's a space-count at the end of #844:
jotheonah (1): mail-mi
LaLight (1): Haddock
2.71828..... (1): LaLight
DatSwan (2): Awaclus, 2.71828.....
Awaclus (4): hypercube, jotheonah, DatSwan, Glooble
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Robz, ashersky

Glooble had just voted Awaclus, but WCD and I weren't fans of that wagon. She'd just said so in-thread a couple of posts earlier, and I thought it would be great to coordinate something while we were both obviously online, though then there was a bit of a day

This is a useless set of wagons to try to draw conclusions on. You have to imagine that in my view I have a green colour on me, WCD and Hyper. I wanted to get a lot of green players onto one as-yet-unknown name, and then see who else joined. If there's a wagon like:
Person1 (4): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Person2, Person3

Then I can create a bit of a (soft) constraint that probably Peron2&Person3 are not scum together (though it happens sometimes), and that if Person2 is town, it's very unlikely that Person1 and Person3 are the same faction, just because of how people tend to play.

I caught you and faust out one time (probably well over a year ago now, I guess?) using exactly this technique: it's super-rare to have a town-on-town wagon with five votes, and moderately rare for there to be one with four town-on-town votes, so it's a good way to look for scum in sets of people. It's not always right, but I can build up lots of sets of constraints, across all the wagons in the game, and look for which people appear more likely than others to be scum.. but I need the people who flip town (or who I trust a long way to be town) to be on some wagons and not just "not voting".

[2.71828.....]

vote: ashersky

We’ve been excusing a lot of blatantly anti-town behavior because of a cop claim (which could be faked in multiple ways) and setup WIFOM.  But none of that excuses pushing for a quick lynch when we still have three days until the deadline. If ash had another shot she would have fired it by now. She’s contributed minimally in terms of scumhunting or starting wagons, instead coming in on already established ones or voting for me for nonsensical reasons.

Well at this point I’m more of an IC than ash is. I started the LL lynch and you can’t argue a scum would do that.

I’m a lot less certain about Space after these claims, but I’m a lot more certain about ash after her attempts to prevent them.

This comes across very scummy.

[2.71828.....]

also, unvote for now in light of Space's claim.

[Glooble]

vote: ashersky

We’ve been excusing a lot of blatantly anti-town behavior because of a cop claim (which could be faked in multiple ways) and setup WIFOM.  But none of that excuses pushing for a quick lynch when we still have three days until the deadline. If ash had another shot she would have fired it by now. She’s contributed minimally in terms of scumhunting or starting wagons, instead coming in on already established ones or voting for me for nonsensical reasons.

Well at this point I’m more of an IC than ash is. I started the LL lynch and you can’t argue a scum would do that.

I’m a lot less certain about Space after these claims, but I’m a lot more certain about ash after her attempts to prevent them.

This comes across very scummy.

Scummier than ash’s vote on me?

[2.71828.....]

vote: ashersky

We’ve been excusing a lot of blatantly anti-town behavior because of a cop claim (which could be faked in multiple ways) and setup WIFOM.  But none of that excuses pushing for a quick lynch when we still have three days until the deadline. If ash had another shot she would have fired it by now. She’s contributed minimally in terms of scumhunting or starting wagons, instead coming in on already established ones or voting for me for nonsensical reasons.

Well at this point I’m more of an IC than ash is. I started the LL lynch and you can’t argue a scum would do that.

I’m a lot less certain about Space after these claims, but I’m a lot more certain about ash after her attempts to prevent them.

This comes across very scummy.

Scummier than ash’s vote on me?

well, I know Ashersky is town, I don't know that you are.  I think you are though, so thats nice.

[2.71828.....]

vote: WCD

Space, why do you think WCD is town?  Because they opened a qt with you?  I guess they shared their power which made you believe they are town?

[Glooble]

I am going offline for the next six hours, but I just want to say I’m done giving ash a free pass when she acts scummy as hell. Investigative roles can be faked. If ash shoots me while I’m gone (I doubt she will because I don’t think she has another shot) but if she does I hope you’ll seriously consider lynching her.

Really, seriously getting offline until at least 6 now.