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Author Topic: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Game over)  (Read 272984 times)

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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1100 on: February 02, 2019, 11:21:31 am »

If anyone didn't know, Space is at L-1 now. Let's not hammer before she has a chance to respond.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1101 on: February 02, 2019, 11:24:38 am »

If anyone didn't know, Space is at L-1 now. Let's not hammer before she has a chance to respond.

Is Space hated too? I'm counting two more votes after the VC which shows two votes.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1102 on: February 02, 2019, 11:27:15 am »

If anyone didn't know, Space is at L-1 now. Let's not hammer before she has a chance to respond.

Is Space hated too? I'm counting two more votes after the VC which shows two votes.

For some reason I thought it took 5 to lynch. Never mind we have some leeway.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1103 on: February 02, 2019, 11:52:48 am »

By not much bottom, I meant in terms of skill and experience. Seems like lots of experienced pros to me.

My advice is try things, take risks. Youíll learn quick that way.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1104 on: February 02, 2019, 01:12:06 pm »

Argh.. thanks for not hammering right away :-/ I'm just home from the afternoon's rehearsals, and I'm expecting a friend for dinner and Netflix (yay, new Disco episode!) any minute now, but I think they'll be heading back before ~7pm forum time, so I'll be back then.
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
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Haddock

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1105 on: February 02, 2019, 01:31:28 pm »

This post is entitled                 Reasons I'm Conflicted About Space: (Not the title of Neil Degrasse Tyson's Autobiography, I guess)

There are bigly scum narratives for various of the things that they have done.  As have been presented by me to an extent but more eloquently by Glooble.
However, as I was wandering around earlier looking for a barbershop, I kinda convinced myself that there is a town narrative as well.

Remember when I said
the probability that someone is scum is always so small that if you just follow the probability you'll never make a decision.
in direct reference to Space's approach to whoever-it-was's post? 

I could see this being what has happened.  Like: Space is a very very analytical person, almost to a fault, and mafia is definitely a game where analysis is very helpful but only up to a certain point, past which the lack of information just makes analysing basically impossible, and so if you're relying on pure analysis you can't make a decision.

I could definitely see town!Space having this "issue" (if you can call it an issue); that would explain their lack of votes in general and their reluctance to commit to an LL lynch.


It doesn't explain some of Space's more blatant hedgey defences of LL that Glooble has already pointed out, but it gives a potentially towny narrative to their behaviour in general.


I guess the tl;dr is that a lot of Space's behaviour is scummy in a vacuum (as I and others have pointed out), and I still get some scummy vibes from it all, but taking into account Space's personality generally, it might not be as scummy as it looks.


This has been Reasons I'm Conflicted About Space.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Haddock

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1106 on: February 02, 2019, 01:32:22 pm »

Now for some rereads.  I definitely owe rereads of mail-mi and of Glooble, I'll start there.

My current reads go something like:

Moderate-to-strong scum:
mail-mi, Space

Weak scum:
WCD (yes am taking into account Glooble's very good point, but it isn't really enough on its own - I think we underestimate newish players at our peril),
ash (If I were to ignore e's result)

Null:
Awaclus, UoS,

Once-felt-scum-and-now-feels-town-so-kinda-null-but-not-really:
joth

Slight town:
e

Moderate town:
Glooble


Let's see if these change after rereads.

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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Haddock

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1107 on: February 02, 2019, 02:13:22 pm »

mail-mi.

105 posts.

Starts with a discussion of irl stuff and an RVS on Robz.  Nothing there.

This is a classic early mail-mi post, and for some reason I want to give it town points:

So, WestCoast, DatSwan, hypercube, and Glooble, what's your mafia playing experience?

I played in this forum years and years ago. I stopped because I was taking it too seriously and it was stressing me out.

cool

are you scum?
That's not exactly hard to emulate I guess.




Here's some weird super-early something re Space:
Townread on space. I remember him usually doing all this setup and stuff like this as town

Or maybe it's just a spaceread on space.

Man, this is such a crappy wagon. Let's join a different one.

Vote: Galzria

ok vote: galzria
Like, either this is weeeeirrrddd hedgey white-knighting or it's scum trying to subliminally make people feel good about their partner.  Or it's just mail-mi being mail-mi, I dunno.  It's bizarre though, and I don't like it.  Like, really.  Surely everyone discusses the setup early in the game, there's nothing else to talk about.  How do you give townpoints for this?  Meh.
Also an RVS vote for [me], fair enough.




This is interesting:
I remember him usually doing all this setup and stuff like this as town

Okay, let's get this out of the way: I AM NOT, AND NEVER HAVE BEEN, A "HE"!!! Sorry for being shouty, but while you've been gone, the whole forum has got a lot more progressive about respecting people's gender presentation and pronouns, and I'd really like to keep that progress!

My preferred pronoun is they/them, and it's even in my sig line to help people remember. I'll settle for she/her in general, and especially for this game, since it's very in keeping for the flavour.
WOOPS sorry about that.

Townread on space, I remember her doing this setup stuff as town
I would be willing to exclude the possibility of both mail-mi and Space being scum based on this interaction alone.  If they have a shared QT then mail-mi already knows Space's gender.  And I don't see scum!Space being willing to fake something like this.



This gives me scumvibes:
ah, a day 1 wagon on me. some things never change

vote: mail-mi

Mass claims on day one are always a bad idea.

You're probably right. I guess a better question would be, are there obvious flavor names that would be scum?
"Oh, yeah, I'm always seen as scummy D1, hawhaw" is a classic scum ploy to try to discredit the wagon.  I should know, I've used it a hell of a lot.



Scumvibes here too:
Vote: Jotheonah

This felt like pouncing on mail-mi for something that might very well be wrong but was not especially likely to come from scum. (Town needs no help tricking itself into mass claiming.)

When does scum ever actually do this? Scum doesn't need to pounce at this juncture. Scum just needs to wait for a good-looking town wagon and slide onboard.

Well, scum wants to look like they're.scumhunting.

vote: joth

vote: hypercube

This is exactly the position scum wants to be on the wagon. Voting for someone who already has votes, and turning a couple votes into an actual wagon

I know that didn't make much sense, I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into words. I hope you (meaning the general populus)understands what I'm trying to say
This is mail-mi's first real vote, and it's on a conf!townie.  Also note that mail-mi's post here is casually based on the assumption that joth is town, without even mentioning it, implying mail-mi might know something we don't.


In light of that, this:
Vote: hypercube
Why?

Is hypercube your scumbuddy?

Nope I'm just trying to create conversation. I know why I'm voting for him (the main reason is wagon placement as explained) but I'm wondering why e is voting for him
Looks a lot like scum fishing for reasons to push a wagon, when they don't really have good ones themselves.


Suddenly pivots round onto joth, joining the very wagon he was voting hyper for joining earlier (he states multiple times that that's his only reason for voting hyper). 
Then that doesn't work so he goes back to hyper again:
Looks like joth isnt happening right now so I'll go back to vote: hypercube
once e posts a case.



Then posts a reads list:
1. SpaceAnemone - is doing regular SpaceAnemone things, from what I remember. Slight town read.
2. jotheonah - Still seems a little too flippant. Scum read
3. LaLight - Um... don't remember anything in particular right now, null read
4. DatSwan - same as above, though I suppose if everyone decided to sheep Awaclus I could join
5. mail-mi - is me
6. Awaclus - is Awaclus. As always, slight scum read
7. 2.71828..... - seems to be good. Wouldn't prefer to lynch today
8. WestCoastDidds - seems townie to me, wouldn't prefer to lynch
9. Robz888 - is in robz's d1 laze. Eh, null read
10. hypercube - preferred lynch
11. mcmcsalot - lurking, but I agree with e's and ash's posts though. Less sure about lynching him
12. ashersky - null read
13. Galzria - Lurking, but is a vet. Would also lynch him, probably over mcmc
14. Glooble - want to give him a d1 pass, but if everyone wants to lynch him I will
Think someone's already brought this up: the stance on LL sucks, the stance on hyper sucks and the stance on mcmc sucks.  Everyone else, who the hell knows - except I have a townread on Glooble so I don't like the hedge there either.



This is a genuinely towny post:
I just reread hypercube, and I am no longer satisfied with my vote on her unvote. She hasn't really responded to the wagon on her, which is would be odd scum behavior to me. I feel like scum!hypercube would react more.
and he sticks with that position even when given an opportunity to get back in there. 
I just reread hypercube, and I am no longer satisfied with my vote on her unvote. She hasn't really responded to the wagon on her, which is would be odd scum behavior to me. I feel like scum!hypercube would react more.

I actually disagree with this, town defends wagons on themselves very strongly, they donít mind getting embroiled in controversy. Scum really wants their wagon to just die down and go away.

that's a good point, however, I still feel like she's less scummy than I at first thought. If she ends up being the lynch for the day, I'll join, but she's no longer my preferred lynch.
Yeah that's townier stuff.
This also feels pretty genuine:
Galzria has 8 total posts, 3 of which are pregame. His vote is still on an RVS wagon on Robz.

vote: galzria

oh duh, this also appears to be a lurker lynch. As I said I dislike that instead of people strongly going "i don't like the hyper wagon" we are just going maybe we should lynch player x or y who has posted no content.

he's basically a placeholder for my vote until I can do a proper reread and find someone better

or until someone else presents a good case. the only case I remember off the top of my head right now is the one on hypercube

How about the case on mcmcsalot I made just moments ago?

i only skimmed over it, now I'm gonna go look at it.

Iím going to go ahead and say it: I strongly dislike the cube wagon. Everything about it feels scummy and bad. Iím going to move my vote to vote: mcmc. Not because of lurking, because of the posting sheís done since she stopped lurking.

I think describing the hypercube wagon as stalled while hypercube was the leading wagon, after saying she just caught up, is a scumslip. Someone who just caught up wouldnít make that mistake. Someone who was reading along and not posting and decided to make an appearance when the heat started getting on them might.

I know that when Iím scum itís hard to get myself to actually reread since Iím not actually looking for information.

Even if the mistake isnít a scum slip, ďsorry Iíve been lurking, Iím going to reread and conclude that the best lynch happens to also be the person with the most votes on her alreadyĒ doesnít look great on its own.

I'm not sure what I think about this. On the one hand, I like it, because I think it's scummy that mcmc came back right after we started putting pressure on her. I also like the last paragraph of this case.

On the other, the hyper wagon was stalling--it wasn't growing in votes or declining in votes. It was just kinda stagnant. I also still scumread you a little bit, so I don't trust this case quite as much.

conclusion: mcmc is a little scummier to me now


Oh no
Coming from lots of people this is slightly scummy; it's probably a bit towny coming from mail-mi.


She then has a whole bunch of long posts and I don't know what to make of them. It's mostly a fight with joth, and since I definitely found joth scummy at the time I can totally understand why mail-mi pushes back there as well.   But now if I am leaning towards town!joth...  I dunno any more.



This is quite sheepy in a way I don't like:
i like glooble's thoughts about lalight and joth so far. Need to take some time to put my own thoughts together about non-joth, non-ash, and non-e people.
especially since mail-mi never actually goes on to vote Lalight, just sticking with the joth tunnel
Oof, followed by this:
My question is just, what motivation does scum!LL have to claim that? Yes, there is wifom, but saying "I may eventually betray town so go ahead and lynch me" just does NOT sound like a good scum tactic.

Ash (I think it was ash?) pointing out how adding the "Oh yeah I get to choose if I switch alignments" after the initial claim is a good point. However, I still don't see the benefit (as scum) to making a claim like that.

Except it worked. It stalled the wagon. Precisely because it doesn't make sense.

I leave it to people who know LaLight better than I do- is this the kind of moved she would pull? Claim something that seems like it would make the town more likely to lynch her than act all contrite?

Again, like I said, wifom. I think LL is town and we should look elsewhere for scum
Bad-bad



Then some super-hedgey posts where he hedges on practically every player in the game:
starting my reread with hyper's claim. this post will collect my thoughts as I read.

I'm honestly not sure how much I like space's reply to it, though there's nothing I can pick out. Just a feeling.

Space also continues to push ash/e, which is a pretty unlikely thing to do. I think it makes her a little more townie.

not sure how I feel about WCD.

there's a lot of talk about hypercube's claim, none of which I find particularly towny or scummy. so that's unfortunate

I think haddock is pretty towny.

I also think glooble is pretty towny. Lalight is looking worse to me as I read

i am now out of time. we shall see what happens later today. Still comfortable with my vote where it is at, but I definitely can move it to lalight right now. Also currently might be willing to vote space if that ends up going anywhere. And Datswan, haven't seem much of her so far in my read, would be willing to vote
Okay, I'm not sure how much time I'll have right now. I'm going to go do a reread, but let me pencil down some pre-reread thoughts just in case I can't finish.

- wagon on me is bad, nobody should join it

- Space doing mathy things seems like both town!space and scum!space. Doesn't change my read on her. Although I didn't like her criticism of glooble's logic, as haddock pointed out. Maybe slight scum read?

- my read on joth has not changed so far

- I still think LL is telling the truth, though I'm gonna go reread her. I've been mulling over Ash's point about her retconning her claim, and I think he has a point.

um... that's pretty much what I'm thinking right now


The claim has been done to death but absolutely looks bad to me.


Oh also as I pass it:
I get a hard time making a case based on someone's votes for me, actually. I think both scum and town would vote me after my claim, because claim is not exactly townie. The only person acting really weird about my claim is mail-mi. This is also self-preservation, so vote: mail-mi

One more thing: if you do not lynch me, at one point I will be able to prove the claim (unless scum targets me every night just to get my lynch through which is a waste of shots, better for us as well), either declining the offer faust gave me and possibly dying? being hated? Hopefully something that will be obvious in thread or if you won't believe me on D4 that I am still alive therefore must be scum, you can lynch me then.

How about that?
This could be a desperate attempt at distancing.



mail-mi then contributes almost nothing today, except some defensiveness, and eventually this:
Day 2 Final Vote Count

jotheonah (1): mail-mi
LaLight (7): Haddock, hypercube, jotheonah, Glooble, ashersky, 2.71828....., LaLight
DatSwan (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (1): DatSwan
mail-mi (2): WestCoastDidds, SpaceAnemone
Not Voting (1): Robz888

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Time for some good old-fashioned wagon analysis!

On-wagon: Haddock, joth, glooble, ash, e
Off-wagon: me, awaclus, WCD, Space, Robz/UoS

So other than Joth (fully willing to admit I probably have tunnel vision) I have townreads on everyone that is on wagon. That's convenient. I would narrow onwagon scum down right now to {joth, haddock}

Off wagon are all the possibly scummy folk (Robz doesn't really count because he was gone) However scum did kill off-wagon, so that's a point to consider. Despite that, I think our lynch today should be off wagon. My current candidates are, therefore, {awaclus, WCD, space, UoS} and right now I think space comes out on top of that in scumminess, followed in some order by awaclus and WCD, then at the bottom is UoS. that is, of course, barring a reread.
Which, eh.  It's fine.  Pretty much following general consensus.



That's it.
Man, I dunno what to say.  My gut says scummy (though it said towny when I first did my catch-up reread in D1), and I see nothing to really overwrite that.  Maybe he's weak-to-moderate scum rather than moderate-strong scum.  Still scummy overall though.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Haddock

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1108 on: February 02, 2019, 03:30:56 pm »

Glooble
circa 135 posts
Btw Glooble it would be great if you could put up some kind of tagline in your signature or your avatar-text, so players who wish to Ctrl+F for your posts can do so.  Ctrl-Fing for "Glooble" gets tons of false positives.


Ok so first serious post:
I donít love any of these new wagons that are forming, but my Galz vote was more or less completely random and now I have better options. Hypercube, Iím leaning towards changing my vote to you right now. Would you care to explain your vote for joth and your ďwagons are goodĒ comment? It seems to me that rushing a wagon at this point makes a lot more sense if youíre scum.
This is maybe microscopically scummy.  Mostly because I don't agree that rushing a wagon is scummy.

Well this has been enlightening. I have to go do work away from my computer, I'll check in at lunch if I have time, in the meantime,

vote:mail-mi
"Enlightening" could be the new "Interesting".  It adds nothing and is very ambiguous.  Again some very minor scumpoints.

This is a moderately scummy post:
At the risk of sounding scummy given that she is my sister irl, I don't get the wagon on joth right now. He's being sarcastic and flippant, but that's just his style. All of his observations seem genuine to me.

Day one is hard, there's so little concrete to go on. I'm eager to hear ashersky's secret plan to fight inflation (have we done West Wing Mafia yet? that could be fun.)

Anyway, this little fight between DatSwan and Awaclus doesn't look great for either of them, but DatSwan comes out of it looking a little more jumpy and defensive, which is often how I feel early on as scum, so for now, vote: DatSwan

2) people who state they are waiting for said plan are attempting to be artificially townie, and thus are scummy

I can buy into this. vote: Glooble

All I said was ďIím eager to hear this planĒ. Nothing about waiting for it. I then proceeded to make an unrelated vote in the same post.
This kind of hairtrigger defensiveness can often come from scum.

I admit I have been jumpy and defensive since I started getting votes on me, and I know that doesnít look good. Iím pretty sure itís  because 1. Iím just an anxious person, and 2. I was given a very strange role and Iím still figuring out its implications for my playstyle.
This is a fascinating (tm) softclaim.  I lean towny on the softclaim itself; as scum do you really tie yourself down to coming up with a "weird" fakeclaim?

This was the big plan?
Towny response to the ash shot.




Then she starts the LaLight wagon, which is obviously a massively towny move.
Continues to push that wagon.


This is a cool post:
The only reason I'm not voting ashersky is I think he's unlikely to be scum with that power. But that leaves me thinking she's town that's playing really badly, and that doesn't sit super well with me with what I know of ashersky.

It has no bearing at this juncture, but we often discuss having vig shots directed.  But there is thecscum element there that canít be erased. Instead, I used the flow of day and the votes.

Honestly, if I had chosen by myself, Iíd have shot Glooble.

This makes zero sense to me. Ash is saying "I didn't want to have town direct my shot, because then scum would manipulate it." (so far so good). So instead, I let myself be guided by the top wagon, because clearly there's no possibility that scum is manipulating that.

(I am of course being sarcastic. There is every possibility that the largest day one wagon is on town and being manipulated by scum, in fact it's much, much more likely than not.)

Someone convince me that ashersky could be scum without the set up being broken because I badly want to vote for her.

I played a normal game on another site where scum team had 1 dayvig shot. Also maybe they should forgo the nk now. Or heís a third party. Pick one

LaLight sure is quick to give joth a reason to vote for ash.
It manages to simultaneously give me townvibes on Glooble, joth and ash.  (Since Lalight prompting joth to vote for ash wouldn't likely happen if joth was Lalight's scumpartner, or indeed if ash was.)


alright then

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

I have no memory of this character. Someone else who has read the books, remind me?

This seems like kind of a weird fake claim for faust to have given a scum player. Unless faust designed the set-up semi-randomly and just used unused power roles for fake claims.

The only way I could see to corroborate this is if someone came forward and said they targeted LL with something last night. I don't know if that's a good idea though, since such a claim might help scum direct their next shot (even if said player doesn't specify what they targeted LL with, which I think it goes without saying they should not.)

We still have five days, lets take our time and get this right.
This is a townish response to Lalight's fakeclaim imo.

Note this post:

Glooble, who do you think the scum faction are?


Probably the rogue faction of Anander Miannani, and the town-aligned faction of Anander Miannani is the one Breq is working for in the books.


The aliens wouldn't make much sense as scum. They're not the primary antagonists of the story. The translators are basically good guys, though their presence complicates things for Breq.
and the use of "good guys" to refer to flavour.



Eh, I guess it doesn't hurt to weigh in on the LL wagon. I think the wagon is of very low utility and the lynch should happen later in the game if at all, instead of now. If LL is telling the truth, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch. If he is scum and he messed up his fakeclaim, scum isn't going to be opposed to his lynch either. Either way, we don't get any useful wagon analysis out of it.

I don't follow your logic at all.

If she's scum, scum want her to survive because that's how they win. If the other scum aren't defending her its because they think there's more utility in earning town points by being on the scum wagon.

If she does end up town, then I think she's just as informative as any other lynch, plus we're not losing a power that has any utility to town, plus her alignment was probably going to change anyway which likely would have been bad for town.
Very towny post


CONTINUES to drive the LL wagon even at the risk of setting herself up against Awaclus.


Oh and then this post:
So in the process of trying to write this post I think I've convinced myself that Awaclus is probably scum. I know this contradicts what I just stated, but I've had a bit of a breakthrough.

Scenario 1: LL is scum. Awaclus is also scum and is trying to forestall LLs lynch one night. Maybe to give LL a chance to use a 1-shot power? Maybe in the hopes that night 2 will give info that will allow her to push an alternate lynch. This is the scenario I've been leaning towards.

Scenario 2:  Awaclus is town, does not know LL's alignment, and honestly believes the fuzzy logic she's been expounding about LL's lynch not being informative.

Scenario 3: LL is town. Awaclus is scum, and knows LL is town, and wants to get town points for looking like she's trying to stop a town lynch.

Having laid this out, scenario two feels like far and away the least likely to me. Awaclus's behavior looks scummy to me regardless of LL's alignment.

I still really want to lynch LL.

But.

This is good too.

vote: Awaclus
Man, Glooble and I would get on irl I think, she expresses herself in a way that seems so natural to me.
Fully understanding the probabilistic arguments, nonetheless this is absolutely how I would have presented this data in this context and it just makes sense.
The context is a discussion of Awaclus's approach to the LL wagon.  In that context it 100% makes sense to lump the instances where Awaclus doesn't know LL's alignment together in one chunk.
I disagree with the Awaclus vote because it comes from a perspective of not understanding Awa's meta.  But, man, this post rings super towny to me.


And then the Lalight lynch happens, with Glooble back onwagon.
Hmm come to think of it the move off Lalight and then back on again could be perceived as scummy in isolation.  But the move to Awaclus felt so natural to me from the perspective of someone who doesn't know Awa very well.

Heck.

Next day.

Bold of us to assume ďRadch-alignedĒ = the good guys, I suppose. Has a mod ever pulled this one before? Flavoring the game such that the protagonists of the source material are scum?

Of course Basnaaid was hardly a villain, so I guess itís more nuanced than that.
Another contentious post.
What the hell, guys?  How can anyone misread this?  Glooble even says right there: "Flavoring the game such that the protagonists of the source material are scum" is the thing Glooble is commenting on.  Why oh why would anyone see scumminess here.


Then there's a bunch of fairly irrelevant stuff.

Continues to drive Awa's lynch, which is null or maybe slightly towny?  Hard to tell without knowing Awa's alignment.  I think scum would be more inclined to go along with several veteran players saying that you are misinterpreting Awa's meta.


From then on she's just being generally helpful and contributive, including giving a very good reason for WCD to be town, which could be planned I guess, but doesn't seem likely.




This reread was partly brought to you because I promised I would look at Glooble as a response to this post of Space's:
Rather than throwing shade for my attempts to articulate why Glooble's case was wrong, why not try scrutinising Glooble's decision to vote Awaclus over LL in the first place, given that he'd explicitly stated that he thought LL was scummy, then moved to Awa because of this case that evidently convinced him so unexpectedly, and then switched back to LL again apparently just because of the plurality lynch that's still 30+ hours out.
And, well, I've done that, and can't bring myself to see the move to Awa as particularly scummy.  Glooble started the LL wagon, and moved onto Awa in a natural way and then back again in a natural way. 

No, overall I still have a decent townread on Glooble.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1109 on: February 02, 2019, 03:34:56 pm »

My reads prior to epic rereads:

Moderate-to-strong scum:
mail-mi, Space

Weak scum:
WCD (yes am taking into account Glooble's very good point, but it isn't really enough on its own - I think we underestimate newish players at our peril),
ash (If I were to ignore e's result)

Null:
Awaclus, UoS,

Once-felt-scum-and-now-feels-town-so-kinda-null-but-not-really:
joth

Slight town:
e

Moderate town:
Glooble

My reads now are the same except mail-mi moves down a slot to "weak-to-moderate scum" (above WCD and ash)

and actually e has gotten scummier from some random snippets I've seen while rereading.  Say e is in the null category now.  e is one for me to reread next, but not right now.


Strong FoS: Space
I would vote but I don't want to put them at L-1 while they're VLA-for-the-evening.

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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1110 on: February 02, 2019, 03:39:44 pm »

Btw Glooble it would be great if you could put up some kind of tagline in your signature or your avatar-text, so players who wish to Ctrl+F for your posts can do so.  Ctrl-Fing for "Glooble" gets tons of false positives.

You can search for the post count. That doesn't always work perfectly, but in this case, it does.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1111 on: February 02, 2019, 03:40:52 pm »

Okay, I'm going to spend some time today getting back to this, starting now.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1112 on: February 02, 2019, 03:42:38 pm »

Yeah let's not hammer Space while she's away and some of us have barely had time to say anything.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1113 on: February 02, 2019, 03:43:38 pm »

Btw Glooble it would be great if you could put up some kind of tagline in your signature or your avatar-text, so players who wish to Ctrl+F for your posts can do so.  Ctrl-Fing for "Glooble" gets tons of false positives.

You can search for the post count. That doesn't always work perfectly, but in this case, it does.
That's what I did.  But still.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1114 on: February 02, 2019, 04:08:58 pm »

I will figure out how to add a signature.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1115 on: February 02, 2019, 04:14:41 pm »

I donít like the Space wagon at all. I think sheís town and I trust her. Letís definitely see what she has to say.

The folks on her are mail-mi, e, Glooble, and Joth. The last two votes I think are town, the first two are my most suspicious. I havenít had time to go back and do a thorough reread, but L-2 on a weekend, five days before the day ends...I donít like it. It feel hurried to me, and makes me feel like I donít have time to go back and gather my thoughts.
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I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1117 on: February 02, 2019, 04:21:41 pm »

I donít like the Space wagon at all. I think sheís town and I trust her. Letís definitely see what she has to say.

I think the early wagoning is very important just in case ashersky wants to shoot someone today (if they even can). Much clearer than D1
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1118 on: February 02, 2019, 04:32:51 pm »

Wow, e...it sure sounds like youíre encouraging her to shoot Space.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1119 on: February 02, 2019, 04:34:00 pm »

I donít like the Space wagon at all. I think sheís town and I trust her. Letís definitely see what she has to say.

The folks on her are mail-mi, e, Glooble, and Joth. The last two votes I think are town, the first two are my most suspicious. I havenít had time to go back and do a thorough reread, but L-2 on a weekend, five days before the day ends...I donít like it. It feel hurried to me, and makes me feel like I donít have time to go back and gather my thoughts.
I would love to hear any reasons you have for finding space towny.

I mean that most sincerely, I'm struggling to see clearly here.

Also, I have just realised my mobile data is running extremely low and my flat Internet won't be up and running til Tuesday. So consider this a VLA post I guess? I can get WiFi in places to a not-great extent. And who knows my data might last. Just a warning.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1120 on: February 02, 2019, 05:28:59 pm »

Argh.. thanks for not hammering right away :-/ I'm just home from the afternoon's rehearsals, and I'm expecting a friend for dinner and Netflix (yay, new Disco episode!) any minute now, but I think they'll be heading back before ~7pm forum time, so I'll be back then.

You must be Canadian.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1121 on: February 02, 2019, 05:38:52 pm »

Argh.. thanks for not hammering right away :-/ I'm just home from the afternoon's rehearsals, and I'm expecting a friend for dinner and Netflix (yay, new Disco episode!) any minute now, but I think they'll be heading back before ~7pm forum time, so I'll be back then.

I don't like the sound of this post. It gives off a "you caught me, but let me come back and defend myself just in case" feeling to me.

i am now more comfortable with my vote.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1122 on: February 02, 2019, 07:53:49 pm »

I'll get to me and claims and stuff in a minute, but this is something Joth said earlier which bothered me:

-early day 1 she pushed pretty hard for the mcmc lurker lynch. she also seems to be going out of her way in her long posts and not offend people. so, make everyone like you, push a lynch on the lurker who can't defend themselves or get into a fight with you=awesome day 1 scum strategy. #291 for ref also #306. I feel a little bad for this case because it's totally possible WCD is just a really nice person and I feel bad giving scum points for that but then, that's what makes it such a good plan.

Please consider for a moment that you may be describing having a scumread on WCS because she is displaying feminine characteristics.

Women are way more likely to defend people, to be supportive, and to try to be "likable" instead of attacking anyone. It's not being deceitful, it's a combination of being praised by society for displaying this behaviour -- making it deeply ingrained from a young age -- and being potentially physically in danger in real life for disagreeing vocally with other people if those people happen to be physically bigger, stronger and more aggressive than they are. It is apparently very hard for people who're read by others as male to observe that till it's explained by someone who experiences it.

Anyway, I suggestion this as an alternative narrative for WCD's behaviour, and I think fits at least as well as the scum narrative people seem to be ascribing.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1123 on: February 02, 2019, 07:54:07 pm »

Haddock making strong town vibes. SA or MM should be the lynch.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1124 on: February 02, 2019, 07:57:14 pm »

Reasons I'm Conflicted About Space

Thank you.. that sounds a lot like me :-P
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