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Author Topic: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Game over)  (Read 315141 times)

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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1000 on: January 31, 2019, 01:52:18 pm »

Yeah at this point I'm like 75% sure its Awaclus and mail-mi but I'm like 95% sure its Awaclus and someone.

So you think both scum hard defended LaLight after he made a botched claim? And then killed off-wagon?
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1001 on: January 31, 2019, 01:56:54 pm »


a faction which is not considered an enemy of the Radch


There it is. Right there.

LaLight has been lynched! She was Breq Mianaai, the Enemies of the Radch-aligned Ninja/Strong-Willed Restricted Goon!

Enemies of the Radch is the name of the scum faction.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1002 on: January 31, 2019, 02:04:51 pm »

However I will say: it's obvious that Glooble was talking purely about the flavour, noting that we are radch-aligned and town, but not the "good guys" in the sense of the books, ie. We are aligned against the protagonists of the books.

This is not difficult to understand. Anyone voting Glooble for that is scummy.

This is actually the thing that stands out to me from that whole exchange.

Like it's so implausible to see where the idea that Glooble scumslipped comes from that it must be scummy? I get what Glooble was saying, now, in retrospect, but those votes that immediately follow make sense to me too.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1003 on: January 31, 2019, 02:13:42 pm »

However I will say: it's obvious that Glooble was talking purely about the flavour, noting that we are radch-aligned and town, but not the "good guys" in the sense of the books, ie. We are aligned against the protagonists of the books.

This is not difficult to understand. Anyone voting Glooble for that is scummy.

It is difficult to understand. I'm not familiar with the flavor at all, and this is my best effort at trying to figure out what's going on:

1) In the book, "Radch" aren't necessarily heroes or villains
2) Therefore, getting a character from the book who isn't necessarily a hero or a villain as "Radch-aligned" isn't surprising
3) If that's what happened to Glooble, it is not strange for Glooble to assume that "Radch-aligned" (i.e. town) are the heroes from the book
4) And then if that's what Glooble assumed, it goes against that assumption when a town player flips a villain flavor name and a scum player flips a hero flavor name and this is worth pointing out in the thread
5) For some reason, Glooble assumed that everyone else also assumed that "Radch-aligned" are the heroes from the book

Is this right?


Yes.

Yeah at this point I'm like 75% sure its Awaclus and mail-mi but I'm like 95% sure its Awaclus and someone.

So you think both scum hard defended LaLight after he made a botched claim? And then killed off-wagon?

Well when you put it that way it sounds pretty dumb.


a faction which is not considered an enemy of the Radch


There it is. Right there.

LaLight has been lynched! She was Breq Mianaai, the Enemies of the Radch-aligned Ninja/Strong-Willed Restricted Goon!

Enemies of the Radch is the name of the scum faction.


Yes, and we win when all of them are eliminated. So if cult =/= enemies of the radch, why expend any energy hunting the cult?
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1004 on: January 31, 2019, 02:21:23 pm »

I target one player and name one player. I named LaLight, but didn't target her. However, it's possible I redirected an action pointed at someone else to LaLight. I can claim more if necessary, but I'd rather not.

Joth, could you please answer this with just a "Yes," "No," or "It's possible."

Did you redirect Robz' action on N1?

No.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1005 on: January 31, 2019, 02:22:30 pm »

Joth, any interest in doing an RMM based on Long Way to a Small Angry Planet sometime?

Maybe! They're good books.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1006 on: January 31, 2019, 02:24:01 pm »

Thanks Joth.

And yeah, I halfway tossed the idea around anyway and didn't have any bright ideas, but that could be a fun thing to work on together sometime.

Do I have more posts than Robz yet?
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1007 on: January 31, 2019, 02:24:54 pm »

I do agree that Awaclus' cult-hunting is a waste of time.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1008 on: January 31, 2019, 02:41:02 pm »

Yes, and we win when all of them are eliminated. So if cult =/= enemies of the radch, why expend any energy hunting the cult?

Their win con sounds like it involves killing someone or some people we don't care about killing (and who might be town). The cult could turn out to be a liability later on.

But I guess I don't have a reason to vote for you even if that's true. Vote: joth
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1009 on: January 31, 2019, 03:33:49 pm »

Ok, so. This is going to be a bit stream-of-consciousness so bear with me.

There's 10 of us left. SpaceAnemone, jotheonah, mail-mi, Awaclus, 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, ashersky, Haddock, Glooble

Of these, I am pretty much 100 percent convinced that joth, Glooble, e, and ashersky are town.

If I take seriously the suggestion that mail-mi and Awaclus, both of whom I'd very much like to lynch, are not scum because if they were they were too obvious about trying to save LaLight, then I'm looking at a pool of Space, WCD, Haddock, and Umbrage. The latter two are relatively recent replacements for lurkers so I don't have a strong read on either of them (ironically, they replaced the two players I probably have the strongest ability to read). Space and WCD, on the other hand, are both players I don't have too much trouble believing are scum, though I wouldn't say I have strong scumreads on either of them.

Hmmm. Looking at the LaLight wagon now:

Haddock, hypercube, jotheonah, Glooble, ashersky, 2.71828....., LaLight

There is only one person on that wagon who isn't either obvtown to me, confirmed town, or LaLight and that's Haddock. So if scum is doing the one-on one-off thing (which I think is a reasonable default assumption) that would bring me to suspect Haddock.

Or, of course, there is the possibility that e and ashersky are scum together and the cop claim was a gambit. We have to keep that in mind even though I think it quite unlikely for a number of reasons.
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Haddock

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1010 on: January 31, 2019, 04:14:34 pm »

That’s ridiculous. I’m going to take this to pm so I don’t clog the thread or get uncivil, and I suggest anyone else who disagrees with this action do the same.
The whole forum have already had this argument I'm afraid.  I was very much on your side, but the voices who cared the most were on the other side, so this is a fairly standard rule now.



Also that's not my alignment, my alignment is actually town. But this confirms that the cult is pro-town, so even if I was part of the cult, lynching me would be a dumb move.
It doesn't say pro-town.  It just says not-explicitly antitown.  "not considered an enemy of the radch" is not the same as "an ally of the radch".
Hmm ok so hyper did essentially say that the cult was explicitly protown.
It annoys me that hyper never confirmed that her information was mod-confirmed.  if you see what I mean.  The information might have come in like a message from the cult or something, making it unreliable.  I dunno.  Probably not.

I can't believe this is what we're spending our beginning of the day talking about.

vote: Awaclus

We can do better.

Vote: WestCoastDidds

On wagon D1, off wagon D2
Hmm.  Hard to argue with that.  A bit obvious maybe?  Then again WCD is new.
Also worth noting:  Space was offwagon.  Here is their post and (as far as I can see) only vote of the day:

Sure, mail-mi is a would-lynch. I wondered where most of the scrutiny on him from D1 went, though I was voting him for much of that time anyway.

Vote: mail-mi

My main would-lynch is still LL.

I wouldn't lynch Awaclus at this point without a scummy flip from LL of a type that indicates LL was on a team with other scums.
I really really don't like the above.  At no point (again, that I can find) does Space vote for Lalight.  And yet says that LL is their main lynch candidate, while voting elsewhere.  What's that about?  In light of LL's flip I'd say that looks really scummy.  It gives you something to point to later and say "no but look I wanted LL lynched too" without ever actually helping the lynch.

In general actually Space has made very very few votes.  I can't remember if this is normal for them.  If it's not normal for space I'd lean towards that lack of commitment to a vote as being scummy. 

Space I'd like you to explain yourself a bit, I think.  Just, like: why the above vote, why didn't you ever vote Lalight, why the lack of votes in general, etc.


However I will say: it's obvious that Glooble was talking purely about the flavour, noting that we are radch-aligned and town, but not the "good guys" in the sense of the books, ie. We are aligned against the protagonists of the books.

This is not difficult to understand. Anyone voting Glooble for that is scummy.

It is difficult to understand. I'm not familiar with the flavor at all, and this is my best effort at trying to figure out what's going on:

1) In the book, "Radch" aren't necessarily heroes or villains
2) Therefore, getting a character from the book who isn't necessarily a hero or a villain as "Radch-aligned" isn't surprising
3) If that's what happened to Glooble, it is not strange for Glooble to assume that "Radch-aligned" (i.e. town) are the heroes from the book
4) And then if that's what Glooble assumed, it goes against that assumption when a town player flips a villain flavor name and a scum player flips a hero flavor name and this is worth pointing out in the thread
5) For some reason, Glooble assumed that everyone else also assumed that "Radch-aligned" are the heroes from the book

Is this right?
Yes, but it's not nearly as convoluted as you make it sound. 
As for 5), you sound incredulous, but yeah: in lots of mafia games, town are the protagonists of the book/flavour.

However I will say: it's obvious that Glooble was talking purely about the flavour, noting that we are radch-aligned and town, but not the "good guys" in the sense of the books, ie. We are aligned against the protagonists of the books.

This is not difficult to understand. Anyone voting Glooble for that is scummy.

This is actually the thing that stands out to me from that whole exchange.

Like it's so implausible to see where the idea that Glooble scumslipped comes from that it must be scummy? I get what Glooble was saying, now, in retrospect, but those votes that immediately follow make sense to me too.
Meh, not really.  I just couldn't bring myself to see what Glooble said any other way.  Maybe "the people who made that vote should feel bad" is a better way to say it.  But I was posting quickly on my phone and didn't have time to un-exaggerate my response.


Ok, so. This is going to be a bit stream-of-consciousness so bear with me.

There's 10 of us left. SpaceAnemone, jotheonah, mail-mi, Awaclus, 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageOfSnow, ashersky, Haddock, Glooble

Of these, I am pretty much 100 percent convinced that joth, Glooble, e, and ashersky are town.

If I take seriously the suggestion that mail-mi and Awaclus, both of whom I'd very much like to lynch, are not scum because if they were they were too obvious about trying to save LaLight, then I'm looking at a pool of Space, WCD, Haddock, and Umbrage. The latter two are relatively recent replacements for lurkers so I don't have a strong read on either of them (ironically, they replaced the two players I probably have the strongest ability to read). Space and WCD, on the other hand, are both players I don't have too much trouble believing are scum, though I wouldn't say I have strong scumreads on either of them.

Hmmm. Looking at the LaLight wagon now:

Haddock, hypercube, jotheonah, Glooble, ashersky, 2.71828....., LaLight

There is only one person on that wagon who isn't either obvtown to me, confirmed town, or LaLight and that's Haddock. So if scum is doing the one-on one-off thing (which I think is a reasonable default assumption) that would bring me to suspect Haddock.

Or, of course, there is the possibility that e and ashersky are scum together and the cop claim was a gambit. We have to keep that in mind even though I think it quite unlikely for a number of reasons.
Huh.  I mean.  Wrong - I'm town.  But that analysis is annoyingly easy to follow and makes sense.

The conclusion from my perspective, though, is that you (joth) are worth suspecting (you were already on my radar) or that you were right re mail-mi and/or Awaclus.  Of those three I'm more inclined to vote for you or mail-mi (probably mail-mi over you by a little way).
Awaclus has been pretty Awaclus so far - and I am not really even excluding his egregious behaviour re the Lalight lynch.  That play is still well within his nullzone.



I need to reread mail-mi.  I hadn't been getting many scumvibes, but apparently I've missed stuff; someone mentioned a cop claim?



Hmm actually as i catch up more maybe I need to reread Glooble too.  there are weird things there that I wasn't seeing before.  (Not to mention Space having brought Glooble to my attention.)
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Haddock

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1011 on: January 31, 2019, 04:21:12 pm »

It annoys me that hyper never confirmed that her information was mod-confirmed.  if you see what I mean.  The information might have come in like a message from the cult or something, making it unreliable.  I dunno.  Probably not.
Jeesus she actually did so on 2 separate occasions.  OK ignore my saying that, sorry.  Also sorry hyper. :P

Just found the mail-mi claim.  Had seen it earlier but not processed it cos the day was ending.  Yup.  It's a stinker...
vote: mail-mi
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1012 on: January 31, 2019, 04:30:18 pm »

I agree with you about that Space quote looking pretty bad. I could get onboard with a Space lynch.

I am now thinking that there is probably scum amongst [Awaclus, mail-mi] but they probably aren't both scum. That feels right to me.

 
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1013 on: January 31, 2019, 04:31:01 pm »

It annoys me that hyper never confirmed that her information was mod-confirmed.  if you see what I mean.  The information might have come in like a message from the cult or something, making it unreliable.  I dunno.  Probably not.
Jeesus she actually did so on 2 separate occasions.  OK ignore my saying that, sorry.  Also sorry hyper. :P

Just found the mail-mi claim.  Had seen it earlier but not processed it cos the day was ending.  Yup.  It's a stinker...
vote: mail-mi

honestly i cannot blame you for voting me for that. it sounds awful. I hate to use the WIFOM argument here but, really, would I be that dumb as scum? claiming cop when we already have a cop and a result on someone who's already sentenced to death? There are SO MANY better fakeclaims I could do. We weren't scrambling, we had about 24 hours left (I think) and so I had plenty of time to come up with a better fakeclaim.

Also, if I was scum, I would have seen how Lalight's not-super-townie fakeclaim was working against her, and would have come up with a more solid fakeclaim.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1014 on: January 31, 2019, 04:31:13 pm »

I'm down for a vote: space
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1015 on: January 31, 2019, 04:39:14 pm »

It annoys me that hyper never confirmed that her information was mod-confirmed.  if you see what I mean.  The information might have come in like a message from the cult or something, making it unreliable.  I dunno.  Probably not.
Jeesus she actually did so on 2 separate occasions.  OK ignore my saying that, sorry.  Also sorry hyper. :P

Just found the mail-mi claim.  Had seen it earlier but not processed it cos the day was ending.  Yup.  It's a stinker...
vote: mail-mi

honestly i cannot blame you for voting me for that. it sounds awful. I hate to use the WIFOM argument here but, really, would I be that dumb as scum? claiming cop when we already have a cop and a result on someone who's already sentenced to death? There are SO MANY better fakeclaims I could do. We weren't scrambling, we had about 24 hours left (I think) and so I had plenty of time to come up with a better fakeclaim.

Also, if I was scum, I would have seen how Lalight's not-super-townie fakeclaim was working against her, and would have come up with a more solid fakeclaim.

So why did you claim? Why did you feel it necessary to out yourself as a cop at that exact juncture? It's not like there was a massive amount of pressure on you.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1016 on: January 31, 2019, 04:41:05 pm »

It annoys me that hyper never confirmed that her information was mod-confirmed.  if you see what I mean.  The information might have come in like a message from the cult or something, making it unreliable.  I dunno.  Probably not.
Jeesus she actually did so on 2 separate occasions.  OK ignore my saying that, sorry.  Also sorry hyper. :P

Just found the mail-mi claim.  Had seen it earlier but not processed it cos the day was ending.  Yup.  It's a stinker...
vote: mail-mi

honestly i cannot blame you for voting me for that. it sounds awful. I hate to use the WIFOM argument here but, really, would I be that dumb as scum? claiming cop when we already have a cop and a result on someone who's already sentenced to death? There are SO MANY better fakeclaims I could do. We weren't scrambling, we had about 24 hours left (I think) and so I had plenty of time to come up with a better fakeclaim.

Also, if I was scum, I would have seen how Lalight's not-super-townie fakeclaim was working against her, and would have come up with a more solid fakeclaim.

I just got done playing a game as scum where I made a bunch of stupid mistakes and then tried to defend myself by saying that as scum I would never make those stupid mistakes. The real truth is that sometimes you're scum and you think you're under more pressure then you are. Sometimes you make a plan at night in your QT and everyone agrees it looks good but then when the time it rolls around in the real game circumstances have changed and it goes over very badly. Maybe you really did have to go and didn't think you'd be back before deadline so you thought the claim would be a good hedge against a last-minute wagon forming on you.

I just basically will never again give any wait to "scum would never be this dumb" arguments because (A) they're a whole nest of endless WIFOM and (B) sometimes scum would.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1017 on: January 31, 2019, 04:41:31 pm »

*any weight
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1018 on: January 31, 2019, 04:42:50 pm »

On top of that, I think those arguments are more likely to come from scum then from town, because town has to do some hypothetical work to consider what they would or wouldn't do as scum whereas it's always top of mind for scum.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1019 on: January 31, 2019, 04:46:10 pm »

The thing with the mail-mi claim is as much as it doesn't make sense for scum!mail-mi to claim that, it makes even less sense for town!mail-mi to claim that.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1020 on: January 31, 2019, 04:47:07 pm »

OK here's a thing for me to sleep on.
Is waiting to lynch mail-mi better? Like, we think scum will v much want to kill mail-mi before more results happen. Can we wait and see whether thag happens? Or is that too late by then?

Also by that argument I guess E should be dead by now.

Hmm
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1021 on: January 31, 2019, 04:50:39 pm »

OK here's a thing for me to sleep on.
Is waiting to lynch mail-mi better? Like, we think scum will v much want to kill mail-mi before more results happen. Can we wait and see whether thag happens? Or is that too late by then?

Also by that argument I guess E should be dead by now.

Hmm


E did explicitly say "1-shot cop" iirc.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1022 on: January 31, 2019, 05:08:07 pm »

That’s ridiculous. I’m going to take this to pm so I don’t clog the thread or get uncivil, and I suggest anyone else who disagrees with this action do the same.
The whole forum have already had this argument I'm afraid.  I was very much on your side, but the voices who cared the most were on the other side, so this is a fairly standard rule now.

Could you link me to that discussion? I tried to find it on my own and failed.
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1023 on: January 31, 2019, 05:09:36 pm »

OK here's a thing for me to sleep on.
Is waiting to lynch mail-mi better? Like, we think scum will v much want to kill mail-mi before more results happen. Can we wait and see whether thag happens? Or is that too late by then?

Also by that argument I guess E should be dead by now.

Hmm

I have reason to believe mail-mi will not get a result anyway. I think they were Swan's jailkeep target. I'd be interested to know if anyone can verify though.
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 3)
« Reply #1024 on: January 31, 2019, 05:14:13 pm »

Oh wait. Just realized it’s equally possible I was Swan’s Target.
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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