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Author Topic: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Game over)  (Read 273474 times)

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hypercube

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #825 on: January 26, 2019, 07:42:05 pm »

I had a thought that maybe the lack of kill is because this weird hypercube recruitment thing is like a kill-substitute?
After all it results always in the loss of a town player...

Doesn't make sense, since the cult also needs to exterminate scum to win. If anything is a kill substitute it's ash's dayvig.

Or there is no cult and the scum kill is “join or die.”

Are you suggesting that faust was lying or that I'm lying?
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Haddock

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #826 on: January 26, 2019, 07:50:22 pm »

I had a thought that maybe the lack of kill is because this weird hypercube recruitment thing is like a kill-substitute?
After all it results always in the loss of a town player...

Doesn't make sense, since the cult also needs to exterminate scum to win. If anything is a kill substitute it's ash's dayvig.

Or there is no cult and the scum kill is “join or die.”

Are you suggesting that faust was lying or that I'm lying?
I'm not really suggesting either, just speculating: you never did confirm that the info you had was mod confirmed; as I asked before  is it possible you have been deceived? That is, did this information about this cultish third party come from faust or via some kind of message?
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M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #827 on: January 26, 2019, 07:51:42 pm »


Again, this is all based on information I received directly from faust, so I don't think it's possible that I've been misled.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #828 on: January 26, 2019, 08:25:43 pm »

LL retconning an option into his claim is scummy.

Yes, I agree with this. I'll vote there to get a lynch through, but I'm not also trying to work out whether LL's claim still has more to tell us about the game setup.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #829 on: January 26, 2019, 08:30:16 pm »

except, you know, our wincon

It is irrelevant to our wincon whether we lynch LL now or later. And therefore we should be getting a more informative lynch now because it is relevant to get that sooner rather than later.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #830 on: January 26, 2019, 08:43:50 pm »

I am always down for an Awaclus lynch.

however.  Can we just have some constructive conversation about like, anything else first.  It's clear Awa and me/others won't agree, so rather than continue this (it's just one vote after all), we could talk about other stuff.

Like whether we think Swan is scummy.  I think a bit, but Swan is a tricky one for me to read.

This post seems townish from you, even though advocating a blanket Awa lynch isn't the most pro-town of things.

I re-read Swan, and can see whether you're coming from. The thing that struck me most was that he was quite concerned about Ash's dayvig shot, so if Swan is scum then I think that was something they weren't expecting.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #831 on: January 26, 2019, 09:18:17 pm »

Lol I am just now realizing mcmc is dead.

Pour one out for Mcmc. Damn shame.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #832 on: January 26, 2019, 10:46:55 pm »

My question is just, what motivation does scum!LL have to claim that? Yes, there is wifom, but saying "I may eventually betray town so go ahead and lynch me" just does NOT sound like a good scum tactic.

Ash (I think it was ash?) pointing out how adding the "Oh yeah I get to choose if I switch alignments" after the initial claim is a good point. However, I still don't see the benefit (as scum) to making a claim like that.

Except it worked. It stalled the wagon. Precisely because it doesn't make sense.

I leave it to people who know LaLight better than I do- is this the kind of moved she would pull? Claim something that seems like it would make the town more likely to lynch her than act all contrite?

Again, like I said, wifom. I think LL is town and we should look elsewhere for scum
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #833 on: January 26, 2019, 10:49:51 pm »

I am always down for an Awaclus lynch.

however.  Can we just have some constructive conversation about like, anything else first.  It's clear Awa and me/others won't agree, so rather than continue this (it's just one vote after all), we could talk about other stuff.

Like whether we think Swan is scummy.  I think a bit, but Swan is a tricky one for me to read.

I keep going back and forth between "Swan is a bit scummy" and "Swan is a bit towny." So pretty null overall for me.


Well I know some of your opinion of me possibly being skummy is that the conversation awaclus and i had on day 1 was skummy... so idk if it changes your all around read but i am absolutely in for a
Vote: Awaclus
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #834 on: January 26, 2019, 10:51:36 pm »

I had a thought that maybe the lack of kill is because this weird hypercube recruitment thing is like a kill-substitute?
After all it results always in the loss of a town player...

Doesn't make sense, since the cult also needs to exterminate scum to win. If anything is a kill substitute it's ash's dayvig.

Or there is no cult and the scum kill is “join or die.”

I also considered this when i was trying to figure out the balance of the claims - could make sense.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #835 on: January 27, 2019, 03:09:01 am »

Vote Count 2.5

jotheonah (1): mail-mi
LaLight (2): Glooble, Haddock
2.71828..... (1): LaLight
DatSwan (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (3): hypercube, jotheonah, DatSwan

Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Robz888, ashersky, 2.71828.....

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 2 ends on January 29, 2019, 01:00:00 am. That is in 46 hours.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #836 on: January 27, 2019, 07:54:05 am »

My whole case on Awaclus being scum is predicated on LaLight being scum so I’d much rather lynch LaLight today.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #837 on: January 27, 2019, 08:04:18 am »

I want to lynch either LaLight or DatSwan today.

vote: DatSwan
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #838 on: January 27, 2019, 08:05:18 am »

DatSwan has been very scummy to me after LaLight's claim.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #839 on: January 27, 2019, 08:08:07 am »

I’ll reread DatSwan today and decide if that’s acceptable to me.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #840 on: January 27, 2019, 08:18:46 am »

I think Awaclus has been very townie in his D2 exchanges, not sure why he is getting all the votes.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #841 on: January 27, 2019, 08:48:22 am »

Thoughts on DatSwan:

PPE a ton of catch up since LL claim. But for now i am essentially edged on believing all claims to at least an extent. Reasons to follow.

So, here we have DatSwan stating the "believe all claims" at least to an extent.  Scum knows more than town, generally knows when town is telling the truth.  Sometimes they ignore the truths town states, but at other times they accept and "believe all claims" because they know town is telling the truth, and then after flips, etc., they will be proven "correct" and therefore townie.

Datswan doubles down on this later:

OK so I have just been playing catchup (sorry) work has been a nightmare. I keep reading up and then realizing a ton of stuff happened while I was gone and then reading again... and etc etc. So I am just gonna post major points here and get to deets later. First off:

alright then

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

LL, can you help me understand this better? You visited Haddock, but your visit was not successful since you did not become Self-aligned? (Is targeted the same as visited?)

Well, I targeted Haddock. I have no idea if I was visiting him in the end (I might've been roleblocked or I might've been visited). Or maybe Haddovck commuted or was rolestopped. I have no idea, but I did not have a choice to change alignment, basically I didn't get any response

- I do not think this comes as skum. It could come off as a Survivor claim, but it could also come off as a SK claim or skum claim. I think on the spot like LL was, they would of taken a different route as skum in regards to the content of their claim.

- Additionally I know what my role is, and there is a specific part of it that by no means "clears" LL here... but also pushes me in the direction of believing them.

Those two points can basically read: I am scum, I know LaLight isn't, possible SK, possible survivor, but not scum.

Then DatSwan changes the topic of conversation in this post to Ash, hypercube, myself, and mcmc.  And then jumps on a very opportunistic Awaclus wagon.

All the scum feels, none of the townie feels.

The redirection made me think that DatSwan and LaLight could potentially be partners, and I was tempted to switch back to LaLight and lynch them first, if they flip scum move on to DatSwan.  But I think I like my theories about scum!Swan knowing information and white knighting LaLight makes more sense.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #842 on: January 27, 2019, 09:55:52 am »

I am not feeling the Awaclus votes. He seems more town than not.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #843 on: January 27, 2019, 09:57:33 am »

I'd rather lynch DatSwan today than Awaclus, so if we get close to the deadline and the Awaclus wagon is in the lead I'll probably switch my vote.

That being said I'd rather lynch LL than either of them, both because I think her alignment will actually tell us a lot and because I'm nearly certain she's scum.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #844 on: January 27, 2019, 10:12:03 am »

So in the process of trying to write this post I think I've convinced myself that Awaclus is probably scum. I know this contradicts what I just stated, but I've had a bit of a breakthrough.

Scenario 1: LL is scum. Awaclus is also scum and is trying to forestall LLs lynch one night. Maybe to give LL a chance to use a 1-shot power? Maybe in the hopes that night 2 will give info that will allow her to push an alternate lynch. This is the scenario I've been leaning towards.

Scenario 2:  Awaclus is town, does not know LL's alignment, and honestly believes the fuzzy logic she's been expounding about LL's lynch not being informative.

Scenario 3: LL is town. Awaclus is scum, and knows LL is town, and wants to get town points for looking like she's trying to stop a town lynch.

Having laid this out, scenario two feels like far and away the least likely to me. Awaclus's behavior looks scummy to me regardless of LL's alignment.

I still really want to lynch LL.

But.

This is good too.

vote: Awaclus
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #845 on: January 27, 2019, 10:21:59 am »

Yeah, after sleeping on it I think LL is a better lynch today than Awa. All of LL's reactions say "caught scum" to me, I would really hope that if LL was town he would try to act towards his wincon even after he was forced to claim; while Awaclus hasn't done anything on quite that level of scumminess.

If LL flips scum, certainly Awaclus is the next person I'd voting for. E's Swan case is pretty decent, so maybe Swan is a good person to look at tomorrow if LL flips town. I would be interested in hearing Swan explain what he was getting at with his "believe all claims" comment.

vote: LL

PPE I see that Glooble has come to the opposite conclusion as me
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #846 on: January 27, 2019, 10:43:52 am »

PPE I see that Glooble has come to the opposite conclusion as me

Happy with either really.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #847 on: January 27, 2019, 10:45:38 am »

I am always down for an Awaclus lynch.

however.  Can we just have some constructive conversation about like, anything else first.  It's clear Awa and me/others won't agree, so rather than continue this (it's just one vote after all), we could talk about other stuff.

Like whether we think Swan is scummy.  I think a bit, but Swan is a tricky one for me to read.

This post seems townish from you, even though advocating a blanket Awa lynch isn't the most pro-town of things.

I re-read Swan, and can see whether you're coming from. The thing that struck me most was that he was quite concerned about Ash's dayvig shot, so if Swan is scum then I think that was something they weren't expecting.
Why are you so keen to simultaneously throw shade at me and also hedge on me?  I don't like it.

I'm so obviously not advocating an Awa lynch in the above, I think it's clear that I'm making a meta comment; namely that I find Awaclus completely unreadable because he's always exactly the same amount of annoying.

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M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #848 on: January 27, 2019, 10:46:07 am »

Thoughts on DatSwan:

PPE a ton of catch up since LL claim. But for now i am essentially edged on believing all claims to at least an extent. Reasons to follow.

So, here we have DatSwan stating the "believe all claims" at least to an extent.  Scum knows more than town, generally knows when town is telling the truth.  Sometimes they ignore the truths town states, but at other times they accept and "believe all claims" because they know town is telling the truth, and then after flips, etc., they will be proven "correct" and therefore townie.

Datswan doubles down on this later:

OK so I have just been playing catchup (sorry) work has been a nightmare. I keep reading up and then realizing a ton of stuff happened while I was gone and then reading again... and etc etc. So I am just gonna post major points here and get to deets later. First off:

alright then

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

LL, can you help me understand this better? You visited Haddock, but your visit was not successful since you did not become Self-aligned? (Is targeted the same as visited?)

Well, I targeted Haddock. I have no idea if I was visiting him in the end (I might've been roleblocked or I might've been visited). Or maybe Haddovck commuted or was rolestopped. I have no idea, but I did not have a choice to change alignment, basically I didn't get any response

- I do not think this comes as skum. It could come off as a Survivor claim, but it could also come off as a SK claim or skum claim. I think on the spot like LL was, they would of taken a different route as skum in regards to the content of their claim.

- Additionally I know what my role is, and there is a specific part of it that by no means "clears" LL here... but also pushes me in the direction of believing them.

Those two points can basically read: I am scum, I know LaLight isn't, possible SK, possible survivor, but not scum.

Then DatSwan changes the topic of conversation in this post to Ash, hypercube, myself, and mcmc.  And then jumps on a very opportunistic Awaclus wagon.

All the scum feels, none of the townie feels.

The redirection made me think that DatSwan and LaLight could potentially be partners, and I was tempted to switch back to LaLight and lynch them first, if they flip scum move on to DatSwan.  But I think I like my theories about scum!Swan knowing information and white knighting LaLight makes more sense.
It is very difficult to argue with this case.  I think I would struggle to vote outside of LL and Swan at this point.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #849 on: January 27, 2019, 10:48:41 am »

So in the process of trying to write this post I think I've convinced myself that Awaclus is probably scum. I know this contradicts what I just stated, but I've had a bit of a breakthrough.

Scenario 1: LL is scum. Awaclus is also scum and is trying to forestall LLs lynch one night. Maybe to give LL a chance to use a 1-shot power? Maybe in the hopes that night 2 will give info that will allow her to push an alternate lynch. This is the scenario I've been leaning towards.

Scenario 2:  Awaclus is town, does not know LL's alignment, and honestly believes the fuzzy logic she's been expounding about LL's lynch not being informative.

Scenario 3: LL is town. Awaclus is scum, and knows LL is town, and wants to get town points for looking like she's trying to stop a town lynch.

Having laid this out, scenario two feels like far and away the least likely to me. Awaclus's behavior looks scummy to me regardless of LL's alignment.

I still really want to lynch LL.

But.

This is good too.

vote: Awaclus
I don't know your history with f.ds mafia, Glooble.  Get the impression you've played a bunch before I turned up? 
In any case, I'm not  sure how much you've played with Awaclus before. 

But I would say 2 actually isn't that unlikely.  Awaclus is a good logician, but he often comes from a totally different direction to things than most people, arguing from his own unique premises.  Even and/or especially when he's town.  So what looks like fuzzy logic is often sound logic, just derived from different postulates.  And presented abrasively.
Logged
The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87
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