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Author Topic: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Game over)  (Read 279586 times)

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hypercube

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #800 on: January 26, 2019, 01:06:18 pm »

If we think LL is the person most likely to be scum, we should lynch her today regardless of how informative the wagon is

Well, that's already a lot better than lynching him just because he's low/potentially negative utility even if he's telling the truth.

As you said, it's important to consider both of the possible scenarios.
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hypercube

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #801 on: January 26, 2019, 01:09:04 pm »

I had a thought that maybe the lack of kill is because this weird hypercube recruitment thing is like a kill-substitute?
After all it results always in the loss of a town player...

Doesn't make sense, since the cult also needs to exterminate scum to win. If anything is a kill substitute it's ash's dayvig.

I think once again you're reading wrong?
I understood that LLs alignment changes unless she was blocked.

Yes, I got that backwards again.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #802 on: January 26, 2019, 01:51:30 pm »

As you said, it's important to consider both of the possible scenarios.

I don't think I said and I'm not even sure if I agree with the statement. I feel like I should, but the problem is when people like Haddock (and me) conclude that lynching town!LL is still pretty decent for town, which it kind of is in a vacuum but that fact makes it completely useless for me and Haddock to be on that wagon.
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #803 on: January 26, 2019, 02:50:27 pm »

My question is just, what motivation does scum!LL have to claim that? Yes, there is wifom, but saying "I may eventually betray town so go ahead and lynch me" just does NOT sound like a good scum tactic.

Ash (I think it was ash?) pointing out how adding the "Oh yeah I get to choose if I switch alignments" after the initial claim is a good point. However, I still don't see the benefit (as scum) to making a claim like that.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #804 on: January 26, 2019, 03:07:49 pm »

My question is just, what motivation does scum!LL have to claim that? Yes, there is wifom, but saying "I may eventually betray town so go ahead and lynch me" just does NOT sound like a good scum tactic.

Ash (I think it was ash?) pointing out how adding the "Oh yeah I get to choose if I switch alignments" after the initial claim is a good point. However, I still don't see the benefit (as scum) to making a claim like that.

Except it worked. It stalled the wagon. Precisely because it doesn't make sense.

I leave it to people who know LaLight better than I do- is this the kind of moved she would pull? Claim something that seems like it would make the town more likely to lynch her than act all contrite?
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #805 on: January 26, 2019, 03:19:23 pm »

My question is just, what motivation does scum!LL have to claim that? Yes, there is wifom, but saying "I may eventually betray town so go ahead and lynch me" just does NOT sound like a good scum tactic.

Ash (I think it was ash?) pointing out how adding the "Oh yeah I get to choose if I switch alignments" after the initial claim is a good point. However, I still don't see the benefit (as scum) to making a claim like that.

We don't know how extensive the fakeclaims provided by faust were.
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hypercube

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #806 on: January 26, 2019, 03:54:26 pm »

As you said, it's important to consider both of the possible scenarios.

I don't think I said and I'm not even sure if I agree with the statement. I feel like I should, but the problem is when people like Haddock (and me) conclude that lynching town!LL is still pretty decent for town, which it kind of is in a vacuum but that fact makes it completely useless for me and Haddock to be on that wagon.

So you're saying you do think she's scum... but you don't want to lynch her?

No, I don't know if he's scum or not, that's why I'm considering both of the possible scenarios. In both of the possible scenarios, both town and scum want to be on the wagon so it doesn't tell us anything about anyone's alignment, which is why we should have a more informative lynch today and focus on this later, preferably when we also have more info.

This is why I don't like your arguments, you've gone back and forth between the argument that LL is scum and the people on the wagon are bussing and the argument that LL is town and people are only on the wagon because her claimed role is anti-town.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #807 on: January 26, 2019, 04:01:10 pm »

This is why I don't like your arguments, you've gone back and forth between the argument that LL is scum and the people on the wagon are bussing and the argument that LL is town and people are only on the wagon because her claimed role is anti-town.

Both of those have been a part of my argument all the time, I have just focused on whichever aspect someone else has been commenting on. Regardless of LL's alignment, we don't learn anything, that's the point.
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hypercube

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #808 on: January 26, 2019, 04:08:59 pm »

As you said, it's important to consider both of the possible scenarios.

I don't think I said and I'm not even sure if I agree with the statement. I feel like I should, but the problem is when people like Haddock (and me) conclude that lynching town!LL is still pretty decent for town, which it kind of is in a vacuum but that fact makes it completely useless for me and Haddock to be on that wagon.

This is why I don't like your arguments, you've gone back and forth between the argument that LL is scum and the people on the wagon are bussing and the argument that LL is town and people are only on the wagon because her claimed role is anti-town.

Both of those have been a part of my argument all the time, I have just focused on whichever aspect someone else has been commenting on. Regardless of LL's alignment, we don't learn anything, that's the point.

You're just contradicting yourself now.
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #809 on: January 26, 2019, 04:16:08 pm »

This is why I don't like your arguments, you've gone back and forth between the argument that LL is scum and the people on the wagon are bussing and the argument that LL is town and people are only on the wagon because her claimed role is anti-town.

Both of those have been a part of my argument all the time, I have just focused on whichever aspect someone else has been commenting on. Regardless of LL's alignment, we don't learn anything, that's the point.

I still don't understand what you mean by this. We learn exactly as much as we do from any other non-policy lynch.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #810 on: January 26, 2019, 04:16:51 pm »

For instance, I'll learn that if LaLight flips scum, we should probably lynch Awaclus tomorrow.
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hypercube

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #811 on: January 26, 2019, 04:18:51 pm »

For instance, I'll learn that if LaLight flips scum, we should probably lynch Awaclus tomorrow.

We could also do it the other way around!

vote: Awaclus
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #812 on: January 26, 2019, 04:39:15 pm »

As you said, it's important to consider both of the possible scenarios.

I don't think I said and I'm not even sure if I agree with the statement. I feel like I should, but the problem is when people like Haddock (and me) conclude that lynching town!LL is still pretty decent for town, which it kind of is in a vacuum but that fact makes it completely useless for me and Haddock to be on that wagon.

This is why I don't like your arguments, you've gone back and forth between the argument that LL is scum and the people on the wagon are bussing and the argument that LL is town and people are only on the wagon because her claimed role is anti-town.

Both of those have been a part of my argument all the time, I have just focused on whichever aspect someone else has been commenting on. Regardless of LL's alignment, we don't learn anything, that's the point.

You're just contradicting yourself now.

I'm not. I am considering both of the possible scenarios, but the fact that I am makes it useless for me to vote for LL, which is why I'm not sure it's good for me or anyone else to do so.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #813 on: January 26, 2019, 04:41:41 pm »

For instance, I'll learn that if LaLight flips scum, we should probably lynch Awaclus tomorrow.

The principle of inflation exists regardless of LaLight's alignment and regardless of my alignment. The fact that I'm bringing it up is pro-town.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #814 on: January 26, 2019, 04:46:02 pm »

I still don't understand what you mean by this. We learn exactly as much as we do from any other non-policy lynch.

If LaLight is scum:
 - If I am scum: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight
 - If I am town: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight

If LaLight is town:
 - If I am scum: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight
 - If I am town: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight

Everything that you'll learn from LaLight's flip, regardless of what it is, is that I had an incentive to vote for him. Which you already know. So you don't really learn anything, which is why there is no point for me to vote for him.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #815 on: January 26, 2019, 06:25:18 pm »

I still don't understand what you mean by this. We learn exactly as much as we do from any other non-policy lynch.

If LaLight is scum:
 - If I am scum: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight
 - If I am town: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight

If LaLight is town:
 - If I am scum: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight
 - If I am town: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight

Everything that you'll learn from LaLight's flip, regardless of what it is, is that I had an incentive to vote for him. Which you already know. So you don't really learn anything, which is why there is no point for me to vote for him.

That only applies to people who vote after the claim. Which is two people! Even if we accept your logic we’re getting two people less information. In exchange for a lynch that helps town in nearly every scenario.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #816 on: January 26, 2019, 06:34:48 pm »

there is no point for me to vote for him.

except, you know, our wincon
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #817 on: January 26, 2019, 06:35:42 pm »

For instance, I'll learn that if LaLight flips scum, we should probably lynch Awaclus tomorrow.

We could also do it the other way around!

vote: Awaclus

I'm down.

vote: Awaclus
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hypercube

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #818 on: January 26, 2019, 06:42:08 pm »

I still don't understand what you mean by this. We learn exactly as much as we do from any other non-policy lynch.

If LaLight is scum:
 - If I am scum: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight
 - If I am town: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight

If LaLight is town:
 - If I am scum: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight
 - If I am town: I have an incentive to vote for LaLight

Everything that you'll learn from LaLight's flip, regardless of what it is, is that I had an incentive to vote for him. Which you already know. So you don't really learn anything, which is why there is no point for me to vote for him.

That only applies to people who vote after the claim. Which is two people! Even if we accept your logic we’re getting two people less information. In exchange for a lynch that helps town in nearly every scenario.

Agreed, I actually don't see any reason why scum would have an incentive to vote for scum!LL after the claim. It would be a kind of obviously bussy vote. Instead scum might, I don't know, engage in an extended campaign to try to get people to vote for someone else while denying that they're defending LL.
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Robz888

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #819 on: January 26, 2019, 06:59:03 pm »

I am starting to read day 2 now, is there anything I need to know more urgently then that?
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #820 on: January 26, 2019, 07:00:39 pm »

I am always down for an Awaclus lynch.

however.  Can we just have some constructive conversation about like, anything else first.  It's clear Awa and me/others won't agree, so rather than continue this (it's just one vote after all), we could talk about other stuff.

Like whether we think Swan is scummy.  I think a bit, but Swan is a tricky one for me to read.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #821 on: January 26, 2019, 07:01:37 pm »

I am starting to read day 2 now, is there anything I need to know more urgently then that?

The only real wagon is collapsing now so I think it’s unlikely we lynch anyone before you catch up.
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hypercube

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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #822 on: January 26, 2019, 07:34:57 pm »

I am always down for an Awaclus lynch.

however.  Can we just have some constructive conversation about like, anything else first.  It's clear Awa and me/others won't agree, so rather than continue this (it's just one vote after all), we could talk about other stuff.

Like whether we think Swan is scummy.  I think a bit, but Swan is a tricky one for me to read.

I keep going back and forth between "Swan is a bit scummy" and "Swan is a bit towny." So pretty null overall for me.
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #823 on: January 26, 2019, 07:41:01 pm »

I had a thought that maybe the lack of kill is because this weird hypercube recruitment thing is like a kill-substitute?
After all it results always in the loss of a town player...

Doesn't make sense, since the cult also needs to exterminate scum to win. If anything is a kill substitute it's ash's dayvig.

Or there is no cult and the scum kill is “join or die.”
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Re: RMM51: Imperial Radch Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #824 on: January 26, 2019, 07:41:12 pm »

Lol I am just now realizing mcmc is dead.
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