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[Glooble]

alright then

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

I have no memory of this character. Someone else who has read the books, remind me?

This seems like kind of a weird fake claim for faust to have given a scum player. Unless faust designed the set-up semi-randomly and just used unused power roles for fake claims.

The only way I could see to corroborate this is if someone came forward and said they targeted LL with something last night. I don't know if that's a good idea though, since such a claim might help scum direct their next shot (even if said player doesn't specify what they targeted LL with, which I think it goes without saying they should not.)

We still have five days, lets take our time and get this right.

[hypercube]

There's this, which seems to indicate that joth had some sort of interaction with LL last night.

A couple things.
3) I don’t want to force anyone to claim, but my power could help explain the lack of a nightkill iff LaLight is bulletproof or was targeted with protection.

[jotheonah]

There's this, which seems to indicate that joth had some sort of interaction with LL last night.

A couple things.
3) I don’t want to force anyone to claim, but my power could help explain the lack of a nightkill iff LaLight is bulletproof or was targeted with protection.

My role uses MtG technology -- I target one player and name one player. I named LaLight, but didn't target her. However, it's possible I redirected an action pointed at someone else to LaLight. I can claim more if necessary, but I'd rather not.

[jotheonah]

I have no memory of this character. Someone else who has read the books, remind me?

I looked it up. Queter is the sister of Uran, a field worker from the planet that Atheok station orbits. She's involved in the subplot about Fosyf's heir Raughd.

[WestCoastDidds]

Regarding the rA, bA, gA stuff, that's certainly one possibility. The other possibility that I could think of is that everyone who joins the cult becomes Anaander Mianaai, and in order for the cult to win all of the non-leader members must die before the end of the game. I think that's less likely, but it's worth considering.

I think that is highly likely.  The expansionist Aanander (bA) that is recruiting would want to defeat scum, since they are a threat to humans, but would need to be alive at the end. I don't know that the other members would have to die, but rather that expansionist Aanander would need to be alive. The cult QT is interesting. In the books there are lots of different communication channels and I wonder if there may be side conversations happening among different sets of folks. Is there some way that we could help leverage that for town?

I don't remember Queter, either, Glooble.  I can go back and look in the book when I get home from work.

One things that LL says is that he will get a result that returns human or AI. I wonder why this matters? That distinction seems meaningless to me.  The AIs are town (they love their humans) and the scum are likely aliens since Hyper's info suggests that Scum is not the expansionist Aanander (my initial guess at what form the scum would take), so neither human or AI.

I am ready to vote for LL, but I am super wary of the hated/loved mechanics and another potential quick lynch so I am not going to do that now unless we are ready to be committed to that decision. (Which is what you were picking up at #645, LL. I said it some time earlier, too. Wariness about how the vote/lynch thresholds are configured that makes me hesitant).

@Joth....help me out. What is MtG technology? What is the different between naming and targeting, if you can say without revealing what you'd rather not?

[WestCoastDidds]

I have no memory of this character. Someone else who has read the books, remind me?

I looked it up. Queter is the sister of Uran, a field worker from the planet that Atheok station orbits. She's involved in the subplot about Fosyf's heir Raughd.

Oh, yeah. She goes to work on the station while her sister is on trial. Hmmm....still more minor than I would have expected if I was making a list of 14 characters, especially if there are VTs.

[Glooble]

I do not believe the aliens are the scum faction.

[hypercube]

Oh yeah, I may as well claim that I am not an AI. I suppose human vs. AI could have some impact on who the cult can recruit.

[Glooble]

I have no memory of this character. Someone else who has read the books, remind me?

I looked it up. Queter is the sister of Uran, a field worker from the planet that Atheok station orbits. She's involved in the subplot about Fosyf's heir Raughd.

Oh, yeah. She goes to work on the station while her sister is on trial. Hmmm....still more minor than I would have expected if I was making a list of 14 characters, especially if there are VTs.

Which would support it being a fake claim.

[hypercube]

LL's claim doesn't make sense. The mechanism for her alignment claim, as I understand it, is that her alignment would change if her visit is blocked or if no-one targets her. That contradicts the setup:

Noone's alignment can change without their consent.

[jotheonah]

@Joth....help me out. What is MtG technology? What is the different between naming and targeting, if you can say without revealing what you'd rather not?

I was being a little opaque there. In Magic: The Gathering, it's really important whether a card actually uses the word "target". In certain circumstances, when the game wants you to choose something but without the baggage associated with targeting (like being thwarted by Hexproof), it uses "name" instead. The way faust worded my power felt like he was familiar with MtG and that there's a meaningful distinction between naming and targeting. So I explicitly named but did not target LaLight.

[Glooble]

LL's claim doesn't make sense. The mechanism for her alignment claim, as I understand it, is that her alignment would change if her visit is blocked or if no-one targets her. That contradicts the setup:

Noone's alignment can change without their consent.

This is a good point, especially if she has to visit someone.

[jotheonah]

hypercube: since it looks like this day might end early, is there anything else you want to say before you bow out of this game? Final reads list, etc?

We should make sure no one hammers anyone until you feel like you've said your peace.

[SpaceAnemone]

LL's claim doesn't make sense. The mechanism for her alignment claim, as I understand it, is that her alignment would change if her visit is blocked or if no-one targets her. That contradicts the setup:

Noone's alignment can change without their consent.

This is a good point, especially if she has to visit someone.

Yeah, seconded. I'd just started worrying about the forced alignment change aspect too.

[WestCoastDidds]

So many interesting things!

Glooble, who do you think the scum faction are?

Hyper- I think this idea of AIs not being able to be recruited is really interesting and would be consistent with how the AIs are. They exist, they are town, but they don't really have affiliations because they have to serve whoever is using them. Mcmc, as the Mercy of Kalr, would have been an AI, I think. So, if anyone interacted with her before she was killed, you might have some insight into this.

Joth- thanks for the explanation. My husband plays MtG but I haven't in forever. The distinction between naming and targeting seems important if some of the motion detectors get results for someone targeting, but not other actions.

I don't know what I make of all this, except that I think there is a good chance LL's claim is fake.

PPE: 2

[LaLight]

Ok, i can’t quote the qt but there is a short piece i’ve read differently. I apparently may decline, but i have no idea what happens in this case. Assume death

From my standpoint lynching me is terrible, but from yours you are losing one town who may as well become the liability. So go ahead

[LaLight]

I have no memory of this character. Someone else who has read the books, remind me?

I looked it up. Queter is the sister of Uran, a field worker from the planet that Atheok station orbits. She's involved in the subplot about Fosyf's heir Raughd.

Oh, yeah. She goes to work on the station while her sister is on trial. Hmmm....still more minor than I would have expected if I was making a list of 14 characters, especially if there are VTs.

Knowing faust and being mod myself, i know that making 14 significant characters and leaving some insignificant to make them fakeclaims is a terrible idea. This doesn’t and shouldn’t work. Because of that would, flavor would have a bearing. If anything this is a minor point towards me being town

[hypercube]

Ok, i can’t quote the qt but there is a short piece i’ve read differently. I apparently may decline, but i have no idea what happens in this case. Assume death

From my standpoint lynching me is terrible, but from yours you are losing one town who may as well become the liability. So go ahead

Yeah, given my experience I would guess that the other option is death. That's not such a bad option if you think town is more likely to win than you are to survive.

[WestCoastDidds]

alright then

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

LL, can you help me understand this better? You visited Haddock, but your visit was not successful since you did not become Self-aligned? (Is targeted the same as visited?)

[2.71828.....]

Very interesting.

Unvote until I have more time to think about it and reread some

[Glooble]

Glooble, who do you think the scum faction are?

Probably the rogue faction of Anander Miannani, and the town-aligned faction of Anander Miannani is the one Breq is working for in the books.


The aliens wouldn't make much sense as scum. They're not the primary antagonists of the story. The translators are basically good guys, though their presence complicates things for Breq.

[jotheonah]

The bugged part of the claim would be a great scum fake claim, if scum thinks there is an AI cop in the setup. And if they think AI-ness corresponds at all to alignment.

[hypercube]

hypercube: since it looks like this day might end early, is there anything else you want to say before you bow out of this game? Final reads list, etc?

We should make sure no one hammers anyone until you feel like you've said your peace.

A few thoughts about ash and E that I guess I should get out there. Glooble bringing up ash not dying when we lynched her reminded me that that was pretty weird. Ash's suggested explanation that it had something to do with mcmc's role isn't really satisfying.

I'm still happy to treat them as town for today but I don't think they should escape scrutiny just because of E's cop claim. For example it's definitely possible that ash is town and E is scum; I don't think that's likely given their other actions but their alignments aren't absolutely tied together. Also I assume ash will have to full claim at some point and it'll be important to really go back and check that claim against the things she's said earlier today.

[WestCoastDidds]

Glooble, who do you think the scum faction are?

Probably the rogue faction of Anander Miannani, and the town-aligned faction of Anander Miannani is the one Breq is working for in the books.

The aliens wouldn't make much sense as scum. They're not the primary antagonists of the story. The translators are basically good guys, though their presence complicates things for Breq.

Agreed that alines don't make sense as scum, but then what do you do with Hyper's explanation that he is being recruited by Aanander- which by your thoughts (and mine) suggest are the bad guys? Scum wouldn't have that much power, would they? How do we parse this?

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, yeah!  Why didn't Asher die? His role didn't have that power, I don't think.