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[verikt]

Ok. So I know that if my opponent has 4 provs on turn 16 and I get my fourth on 17 I lose on turns. He had 4 provs, I trashed a gold to prov with governor, he trashed a conspirator to duchy and I bought a duchy. We both had 31. The game said he won. Why? We both got our last points on turn 17. Just counting his 4 provs from last turn he would have lost.

[WanderingWinder]

Ok. So I know that if my opponent has 4 provs on turn 16 and I get my fourth on 17 I lose on turns. He had 4 provs, I trashed a gold to prov with governor, he trashed a conspirator to duchy and I bought a duchy. We both had 31. The game said he won. Why? We both got our last points on turn 17. Just counting his 4 provs from last turn he would have lost.

Rules. What rules? The game's rules. Specifically those that say that if the score is tied, the win goes to whoever had fewer turns.

[Ozle]

Ok. So I know that if my opponent has 4 provs on turn 16 and I get my fourth on 17 I lose on turns. He had 4 provs, I trashed a gold to prov with governor, he trashed a conspirator to duchy and I bought a duchy. We both had 31. The game said he won. Why? We both got our last points on turn 17. Just counting his 4 provs from last turn he would have lost.

Rules. What rules? The game's rules. Specifically those that say that if the score is tied, the win goes to whoever had fewer turns.

I think he is saying they both had 17 turns each and ended with 31 points each and thats why he doesnt understand...(although the explanation is a bit jumbled)

[WanderingWinder]

Ok. So I know that if my opponent has 4 provs on turn 16 and I get my fourth on 17 I lose on turns. He had 4 provs, I trashed a gold to prov with governor, he trashed a conspirator to duchy and I bought a duchy. We both had 31. The game said he won. Why? We both got our last points on turn 17. Just counting his 4 provs from last turn he would have lost.

Rules. What rules? The game's rules. Specifically those that say that if the score is tied, the win goes to whoever had fewer turns.

I think he is saying they both had 17 turns each and ended with 31 points each and thats why he doesnt understand...(although the explanation is a bit jumbled)

No, he's saying that he had 17 turns and his opponent has 16, but he thinks it makes a difference that his opponent got the last points on his (the poster's) 17th turn. But of course, it makes no difference.

[Ozle]

Ahh yeah, i see the governer mentioned in there now, no wonder I thought it was jumbled!

I would have thought this sort of thing would have come up before in ~9,000 games played!

[Kuildeous]

The cold, hard fact is that the person who played fewer turns wins on a tie.

The fact that your opponent benefited on your turn does not change the fact that he played fewer turns than you.

In general, a player does not benefit during someone else's turn. It can happen, though.

If you played Bishop, and he trashed a Curse from his hand to force a tie, then he'd still win if he had fewer turns.
If you played Saboteur and trashed his Platinum, he could still gain a Province to tie the game and win if he had fewer turns.
If your Swindler replaced his Peddler with a Province, same thing.
Not that you would, but if you pass him a victory card during your Masquerade, same concept.
Also, consider if you play Mountebank and cause his Gardens to go up in value on the last turn.

It's not common, but it can happen.

[jonts26]

The game rules are quite clear as WW pointed out about what happens when the score is tied.

Consider an alternate case where you are first player and on your turn you play a witch to give out a curse and then end the game with the final score being a tie. It would make no sense to think that the other player used your extra turn to tie the score.

[Kahryl]

Your opponent got fewer turns to make the same number of points that you did, so he should win. If he benefitted too much during your turn that is your own fault, after all you chose to buy and play the Governer instead of a more typical card that only benefits you!

[lespeutere]

If you played Saboteur and trashed his Platinum, he could still gain a Province to tie the game and win if he had fewer turns.

In general you're right but to be nit-picky and clarify for those who might not know: this doesn't work as saboteur lets you get something costing 2$ less than the trashed card.

[RisingJaguar]

Another example is if someone on their extra turn ended the game on 3-piles, but did not gain any extra points.  If the game is tied in scored, the person with the one fewer turn still wins.  So whoever got their points last, or on whatever turns is irrelevant. 

[Ozle]

Haha, I wonder how many replies this thread needs telling him roughly the same thing?

[Kuildeous]

If you played Saboteur and trashed his Platinum, he could still gain a Province to tie the game and win if he had fewer turns.

In general you're right but to be nit-picky and clarify for those who might not know: this doesn't work as saboteur lets you get something costing 2$ less than the trashed card.

You're right; brain fart.

This could actually make for a fun puzzle, but there are so many possibilities of increasing your opponent's VPs.

[Kirian]

In general, a player does not benefit during someone else's turn. It can happen, though.

It's not common, but it can happen.

I suspect it's much more common than you might think.  We have at least 6 possibilities in this thread already.  Others that don't require a brain fart on your own part might include:

Golem-Ambassador-forced to give VP card
Opponent passes you a Curse via Masquerade (you trash it, but they're up a point)
Swindler converts a Curse into a Copper

[Kuildeous]

If you played Bishop, and he trashed a Curse from his hand to force a tie, then he'd still win if he had fewer turns.

That brain fart also made me not realize that this scenario cannot happen. If you play Bishop, you're guaranteed +1 VP. The best your opponent could do is trash one Curse for a net gain of 1 point. If he already has fewer points than you, then he won't catch up with that, because you'll have a net gain of at least 1 point.

The Swindler tactic listed by Kirian is valid and more along what I was trying to get at.

[mnavratil]

Although you could already be tied, and expect playing the bishop to trash a copper to give you the go-ahead point. This may then allow you to buy the last non-victory card for the 3-pile ending. I think the scenario is still mostly valid.

[AJD]

If you played Bishop, and he trashed a Curse from his hand to force a tie, then he'd still win if he had fewer turns.

That brain fart also made me not realize that this scenario cannot happen. If you play Bishop, you're guaranteed +1 VP.

Well, unless you trash a Victory card...

[Kuildeous]

If you played Bishop, and he trashed a Curse from his hand to force a tie, then he'd still win if he had fewer turns.

That brain fart also made me not realize that this scenario cannot happen. If you play Bishop, you're guaranteed +1 VP.

Well, unless you trash a Victory card...

Okay, that's true. It's not like you want to trash a Colony for a net -4 VP, but if you painted yourself into that corner with a weird Golem trick, then I suppose the situation is still valid. It's just as viable as forcing yourself to pass a victory card after playing Masquerade.

[chogg]

In general, a player does not benefit during someone else's turn. It can happen, though.

My favorite example of this:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120215-091334-e85fae18.html#GewoonD-show-turn-10
My opponent plays a Governor for remodeling, and I gain an Inn on his turn with an empty deck, shuffling 6 Actions from the discard pile.

The game was also notable for ridiculous Governor/Margrave shenanigans.  I happily gave him card after card... only to take them all away with a Margrave at the end.  At first I wondered what was taking him so long when I played a Margrave.  Then I realized how big his hand was -- he discarded 10 cards twice, and 9 cards one other time!

The punchline?  He was the one who got the "Bully" goal.

[GendoIkari]

My favorite example of this:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120215-091334-e85fae18.html#GewoonD-show-turn-10
My opponent plays a Governor for remodeling, and I gain an Inn on his turn with an empty deck, shuffling 6 Actions from the discard pile.

I did this recently. And immediately after, my opponent played a Fortune Teller; discarding all my carefully stacked cards.

[chogg]

My favorite example of this:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120215-091334-e85fae18.html#GewoonD-show-turn-10
My opponent plays a Governor for remodeling, and I gain an Inn on his turn with an empty deck, shuffling 6 Actions from the discard pile.

I did this recently. And immediately after, my opponent played a Fortune Teller; discarding all my carefully stacked cards.

Ouch!!

[Davio]

My favorite example of this:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120215-091334-e85fae18.html#GewoonD-show-turn-10
My opponent plays a Governor for remodeling, and I gain an Inn on his turn with an empty deck, shuffling 6 Actions from the discard pile.

I did this recently. And immediately after, my opponent played a Fortune Teller; discarding all my carefully stacked cards.

Ouch!!

That's just nasty. With Fortune Teller as well, which is such a mediocre card usually.

Still, gotta love those games when an opponent plays Governor to end the game (Gold -> Prov) and you have your only $4 card in hand to sneak out a win. 

[WanderingWinder]

My favorite example of this:
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120215-091334-e85fae18.html#GewoonD-show-turn-10
My opponent plays a Governor for remodeling, and I gain an Inn on his turn with an empty deck, shuffling 6 Actions from the discard pile.

I did this recently. And immediately after, my opponent played a Fortune Teller; discarding all my carefully stacked cards.

Ouch!!

That's just nasty. With Fortune Teller as well, which is such a mediocre card usually.

Still, gotta love those games when an opponent plays Governor to end the game (Gold -> Prov) and you have your only $4 card in hand to sneak out a win. 

I tend to buy more 4 cards in such games, just to be able to do this.