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[Donald X.]

Complaining to the creator of it will only result in everyone else not getting to play more of the game they like.

I try not to do things out of spite, and it's easy when it's something that looms large in your life, like working on expansions. I'm trying to take a break from working on expansions, but it's nothing to do with anything Dominion fans have said, pro or con.

[Ingix]

... but if you hate it so much that you can’t handle it, just stop buying the future expansions game.

That's actually very good advice, with the amendment "... until you have reports from players that have actually bought that expansion about the qualitiy of it in various different ways you care about." Buying things "unseen" has risks, that have materialied this time.  I have no idea if treating the current Renaissance box as defective has any kind of hope of being recongized by whatever consumer protection law exists where it matters for the original complainer.

[Awaclus]

The fact that Donald X. is publicly acknowledging that RGG could have done something a bit better is already beyond what you should expect from a creator. Normally, if you work with someone, they did a totally awesome killer job and you had a great experience working with such cool people unless you got screwed over so bad that you never want to work with them again.

[ObtusePunubiris]

I didn't ask you to scream at anyone or contemplate anything.  Those are your words and your definition of being pissed about something, not mine.

But hey, I misunderstood/mischaracterized something you said and now you've done the same to me.  Call it even?

You said I should be pissed, meaning I hadn't adequately demonstrated pissed-ness to you, meaning you wanted my post to contain words of pissed-ness. Which would then be directed at entities I was pissed at, who happen to be entities I work for/with.

No, that is not what I meant.  As I've explained, all I wanted in asking you to be pissed was to not make light of the issue, which is what it seemed to me that you were doing.  No ranting, to angry words, no public castigation of anyone necessary.  You said you weren't making light of it.  I said I believe you and I'm asking you to believe my explanation in return.  Either way though, thanks for the amazing game and farewell.

[Beyond Awesome]

Many many games have had printing mistakes in them. Dominion is not an exception. The same thing happens in movies. Sometimes the audience notices, sometimes they don't. It's unfortunate the frames are lighter but not the end of the world.

[Oyvind]

I didn't ask you to scream at anyone or contemplate anything.  Those are your words and your definition of being pissed about something, not mine.

But hey, I misunderstood/mischaracterized something you said and now you've done the same to me.  Call it even?

You said I should be pissed, meaning I hadn't adequately demonstrated pissed-ness to you, meaning you wanted my post to contain words of pissed-ness. Which would then be directed at entities I was pissed at, who happen to be entities I work for/with.

No, that is not what I meant.  As I've explained, all I wanted in asking you to be pissed was to not make light of the issue, which is what it seemed to me that you were doing.  No ranting, to angry words, no public castigation of anyone necessary.  You said you weren't making light of it.  I said I believe you and I'm asking you to believe my explanation in return.  Either way though, thanks for the amazing game and farewell.

I'd rather have these lighter frames than not having the cards at all, which is currently my situation, as I'm living in Europe. Still no shop which is willing to send to European addresses is having this set that I've seen. You're not alone in being noticeably bothered by such inconsistencies. I'm having a hang-up about such things myself, but if I can't control them, and God knows I don't when it comes to Dominion, I never bother other people with it.

You should've seen the countless iterations of Excel files I've made for Dominion throughout the years. When I notice that something is amiss, like cards having the wrong shade of a background color, wrong font, inconsistent font size or cell width, the wrong icons or faulty References listed, I'm pretty hard on myself, fix it up (or I won't be able to sleep), look at the fixed file, smile in utter satisfaction and dread the next inconsistency I'll find (I know there must be more of them).

These are things I can fix, so I fix them. I'm a sucker for card and board games, and they've given me a lot of grief during my lifetime when it comes to such inconsistencies, but man, if I measure and compare the pleasure and great memories they've provided, I've found that that grief is definitely something I'm perfectly willing to live with. The alternative (not playing these great games, or only playing them on a screen) are way, way worse to me. Besides, I know that I'm the problem if I let that ruin the game for me.

[SuperHans]

Oh well. Things happen. I’m looking forward to receiving my copy just as much as I was before.

[jamfamsam]

Complaining to the creator of it will only result in everyone else not getting to play more of the game they like.

I try not to do things out of spite, and it's easy when it's something that looms large in your life, like working on expansions. I'm trying to take a break from working on expansions, but it's nothing to do with anything Dominion fans have said, pro or con.

Perhaps some of the people posting here now weren't around when Donald called it quits on this forum. It really sucked! It is so cool that the designer of this game takes time to interact with this forum. The first time he responded to one of my posts, I saved the screen shot and still have it. It's that cool! Having him leave again would really suck again.

I will receive my copy on Tuesday and I'm sure I will be disappointed that the card layouts don't match. I was unhappy with the bendy cards when they came out and more unhappy that RGG didn't replace those even though it did affect game play. Stuff happens. I ended up gifting the set to someone who couldn't tell the cards were bendy (yes, they knew what was coming and were happy to have the set) and bought the 2nd edition. Just because Donald is available on this forum to complain to, doesn't mean he is the guy to complain to. He is not the face of RGG. He designed the game. RGG owns whatever rights and prints the game and that stuff is all on RGG. Donald likely has no sway over what stuff RGG will and won't do in that regard although he does sometimes have information he has shared with us as allowed by RGG and I'm sure that more often than not Donald wishes he hadn't said anything about that stuff at all.

[Donald X.]

Perhaps some of the people posting here now weren't around when Donald called it quits on this forum. It really sucked! It is so cool that the designer of this game takes time to interact with this forum. The first time he responded to one of my posts, I saved the screen shot and still have it. It's that cool! Having him leave again would really suck again.

Thanks, but of course people have to feel free to say they hate whatever. I'm not complaining that people are unhappy, I'm complaining about complaints about what I've said.

I feel like pointing out again that Secret Cave is a lighter orange, just like Cargo Ship, and no-one ever reported this. There's not the same as 24 out of 25 cards and so on and on, but, it's a thing, the people out there who might have been angry online about that either did not see it or did not speak up. It may not ruin as many games as it seems like it might.

[Cave-o-sapien]

Maybe the 24 cards in Renaissance are correct and it's all the rest that are wrong.

[Seprix]

The best part is, the wrong orange looks way better than the right orange. Time to change all the other older Duration cards to be the new color in the next edition.

[PortlandSkye]

My wife and I really enjoy Dominion. We have all the expansions and promo cards and are looking forward to Renaissance. I imagine our local game store will have it sometime in the next week or so.

I'm sorry to read some of the negative comments in this thread about what are really very minor issues.

I've read over the text of some of most the cards and am really looking forward to how they play in a game. There are always nice surprises and unexpected combinations.

Donald, sincere thanks and appreciation. I hope you keep adding to the game.

[Aleimon Thimble]

It's kind of amusing to me how upset people can get about trivial things like card colors being somewhat different (as long as it's the front and not the back - that would be horrible), when instead we Dutchies have to deal with this: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19206.0

Now THOSE are mistakes.

And even then I don't actually get THAT upset about it, I just have to remember how the actual cards work and not forget to tell people before the game starts.

[TP]

The color differences certainly won't stop me from buying the set. My biggest concern is Donald’s comment above about taking a break from expansions.

Donald, the break is well deserved and earned.  Thanks for a great game. Hopefully the break won’t be too long  .

[dbclick]

I feel like pointing out again that Secret Cave is a lighter orange, just like Cargo Ship, and no-one ever reported this.

I actually did notice the different color on Secret Cave, but I didn't think much of it. It certainly wasn't impacting gameplay and I didn't consider it worth reporting. I'm very much looking forward to playing with the new Renaissance cards.

I'm just happy Donald takes the time he does to help the game he designed be the best product it can be. Not all game designers put in that much effort and not all publishers are as accommodating to those designers that are so dedicated.

[jamfamsam]

I received my set yesterday. I'm not even disappointed about the difference as I expected I might be. Zero effect on game play. Minimal effect on aesthetics.

[PortlandSkye]

Anyone know when the Sumpfork site will be updated with Renaissance?

[Orange]

At the risk of getting shouted down, I don't agree with those who say the printer errors are irrelevant.  The backs are clearly lighter...I can pick out the Renaissance cards from their backs 100 out of 100 times.  That's the biggest problem.  The too-light orange on the duration cards is very close to the original yellow of treasure cards also.  That's a much smaller problem but still a distraction.

I'm not about to buy 4,000 sleeves and my group is making it work.  And while this sentence belongs in feedback to RGG, well, here it is:  I'm in for north of 500 bucks on Dominion, and while I've gotten my money's worth most of the time, I don't feel like I did on this one.

[Holunder9]

The backs are clearly lighter...I can pick out the Renaissance cards from their backs 100 out of 100 times.

So much about RGG's claim that their mess-up doesn't impact playability.

[Donald X.]

At the risk of getting shouted down, I don't agree with those who say the printer errors are irrelevant.  The backs are clearly lighter...I can pick out the Renaissance cards from their backs 100 out of 100 times.  That's the biggest problem.  The too-light orange on the duration cards is very close to the original yellow of treasure cards also.  That's a much smaller problem but still a distraction.

I don't agree with them being irrelevant either. I played with them at a release event last week (with an older version of Base Cards) and they are for sure 100% marked. They are so marked that you don't need to compare two cards, just looking at one is enough. The fronts being off sucks, guy who needs me to repeat that, but I know would not affect gameplay for me personally; the prototype already has had different printers so that e.g. the orange isn't always the same orange. We had the lighter Treasures and regular Treasures and I mean it didn't bother me but also I'm used to it.

As with Adventures I think, why do I even bother. You spend months working on something and then it's worthless. It looks like the basic premise of printing cards at two different times that get shuffled together is bad.

I'm not about to buy 4,000 sleeves and my group is making it work.

I don't understand this part, I think it's vice versa. If you don't sleeve, lack of wear on the cards will mark the new cards anyway; the backs mark them, the lack of wear also marks them. If you sleeve, only the backs being different marks them. Well, if cards stay in sleeves long enough, lack of sleeve wear also marks cards; I see this with the prototype.

Any solution for people who will wait for a new printing is probably a few years away, since lots of copies were printed. But also, there's no perfect solution, because the most recent sets are all lighter than the oldest sets. At best we match the most recent sets and you can still tell 1E cards from the backs.

Jay is looking into what's going on, and so far it looks like the file isn't wrong - he sent me the "good to print" file that Altenburger sends us and uses if we okay it, and the pixels I checked matched the other files I have. So, whether it was the printer printing too light, printing too dark previously, or using the wrong file, it seems like it has to be the printer. Obv. since the layout on the fronts was wrong, I was very suspicious of the file.

[Cave-o-sapien]

It could be worse, the card backs could all say 'Deckmaster' on them.

[Oyvind]

I'm not about to buy 4,000 sleeves and my group is making it work.

I don't understand this part, I think it's vice versa. If you don't sleeve, lack of wear on the cards will mark the new cards anyway; the backs mark them, the lack of wear also marks them. If you sleeve, only the backs being different marks them. Well, if cards stay in sleeves long enough, lack of sleeve wear also marks cards; I see this with the prototype.

I think Orange means that (s)he already sleeves all her/his cards with clear sleeves, and that (s)he now feels that (s)he has to buy new sleeves with opaque backs for all her/his Dominion cards. Resleeving all of them takes a lot of time, and the cost is actually significant, too.

No European shop has the set yet, so I don't know how much it would impact my AFK games before I'm able to get my hands on it. I'm optimistic it won't impact game-play too much.

[greybirdofprey]

At the risk of getting shouted down, I don't agree with those who say the printer errors are irrelevant.  The backs are clearly lighter...I can pick out the Renaissance cards from their backs 100 out of 100 times.  That's the biggest problem.  The too-light orange on the duration cards is very close to the original yellow of treasure cards also.  That's a much smaller problem but still a distraction.

I don't agree with them being irrelevant either. I played with them at a release event last week (with an older version of Base Cards) and they are for sure 100% marked. They are so marked that you don't need to compare two cards, just looking at one is enough. The fronts being off sucks, guy who needs me to repeat that, but I know would not affect gameplay for me personally; the prototype already has had different printers so that e.g. the orange isn't always the same orange. We had the lighter Treasures and regular Treasures and I mean it didn't bother me but also I'm used to it.

As with Adventures I think, why do I even bother. You spend months working on something and then it's worthless. It looks like the basic premise of printing cards at two different times that get shuffled together is bad.

I'm not about to buy 4,000 sleeves and my group is making it work.

I don't understand this part, I think it's vice versa. If you don't sleeve, lack of wear on the cards will mark the new cards anyway; the backs mark them, the lack of wear also marks them. If you sleeve, only the backs being different marks them. Well, if cards stay in sleeves long enough, lack of sleeve wear also marks cards; I see this with the prototype.

Any solution for people who will wait for a new printing is probably a few years away, since lots of copies were printed. But also, there's no perfect solution, because the most recent sets are all lighter than the oldest sets. At best we match the most recent sets and you can still tell 1E cards from the backs.

Jay is looking into what's going on, and so far it looks like the file isn't wrong - he sent me the "good to print" file that Altenburger sends us and uses if we okay it, and the pixels I checked matched the other files I have. So, whether it was the printer printing too light, printing too dark previously, or using the wrong file, it seems like it has to be the printer. Obv. since the layout on the fronts was wrong, I was very suspicious of the file.

Magic Maze solves this by having the expansion tiles have different backs altogether.

Although yes, I have noticed the English Nocturne I bought in America has slightly lighter backs than all my other cards.

I solve all this using the house rule 'don't look at the back of the top card of your deck'. Takes some practice but it works. Alternatively I could devise some sort of object that obscures your deck.

[werothegreat]

Honestly, all the backs from all the expansions I've ever gotten have had slightly different colorations.  If you stare hard enough, you can tell which are base set cards and which are not.  So don't stare hard at your deck.  At least this can possibly be ignored, whereas whatever the hell happened to the first printing of Adventures really couldn't be.

[crj]

If you don't sleeve, lack of wear on the cards will mark the new cards anyway

Handy tip: after a game, put the used Coppers back at the bottom of the pile, not the top. Even out the wear a bit!

My preferred sleeves are Ultra Pro ProMatte. In the UK, those cost £8.30 to sleeve 250 cards. A fresh set of Base Cards costs £14.40. I think, given only the issue of differential wear, my tendency would be to replace my base cards every now and then - the obvious moment being simultaneously with buying a new expansion. After all, I treat regular playing cards as a consumable rather than sleeving them.

If we're entering an era of cards no longer matching out of the box, maybe I have to reconsider. )-8