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[Dylan32]

I'm still town-reading e, but if EFHW is lynched and flips scum, e would look really partnery through most of the game.

[Dylan32]

Personal preference, but I find it scummy when non-ICs make themselves green when putting together vote counts/patterns, lists, wagon analysis, etc. It just feels manipulative. You may very well actually be town, but the rest of us have no way of knowing that, and so just make your arguments with yourself colored to reflect that, then let the logic of your argument go where it will, and then we will of course know that you aren't going to include yourself in that list.  Noticed this in DatSwan's wall of text earlier, which I'm not quoting for space.

[Dylan32]

Apologies for being absent. My students took up more time than expected with the Halloween Holiday.
I will have more detail in the morning.
However, for now, the core point, for me at least... is that skum could not of known that Robz was IC (therefore they did not expect to have to deal with a Town flip on Day 2).
The main wagons seemed to be Joseph and Robz. There is no way of knowing whether or not they are BOTH town or not (something that Skum would know). So, instead of focusing on Joseph, I think we would be better suited focusing at least some effort on those switching between the Joseph/Robz wagons, as well as those that avoided them all together.

Reading Datswan and this post includes more of what scum would know or be thinking than is normal.  Scummy

[Dylan32]

I thought maybe Datswan was in a good wagon position to bus if hyper was a partner, but with how and when they got on the wagon, I'm not thinking that was a bus...  Swan was choosing where to go immediately after a Space VC, chose to be the 4th on cube while WCD was already at 4 and asked for someone else to switch to cube too. It's either a really ballsy play or straight up town.

[Dylan32]

I thought maybe Datswan was in a good wagon position to bus if hyper was a partner, but with how and when they got on the wagon, I'm not thinking that was a bus...  Swan was choosing where to go immediately after a Space VC, chose to be the 4th on cube while WCD was already at 4 and asked for someone else to switch to cube too. It's either a really ballsy play or straight up town.

To clarify the first sentence, looking at the static list of the final wagon, I thought Swan might be busing based on wagon position, but ... the rest of what I said.

[Dylan32]

For now Vote: EFHW.

IC: pps
Won't lynch: Swan, e, WCD
Probably town not conf!town: Joseph
Neutral: mcmc, Awaclus
Would lynch: fang
Really want to lynch: EFHW

[EFHW]

Why isn't e on the probably town list?

What has fang done to be on your would lynch list?

What have I done to rate a "really want to lynch"?

You just made a string of posts, mostly calling Datswan and Joseph scummy. Then you townread them and apparently randomly scum read me and fang. Really wanting to lynch me is pretty strong feelings. Based on what? There has to be more than my "all alone as town" comment.

[EFHW]

Scratch the question about e, I see he is on your won't lynch list. Still hoping for answers to the rest of my questions.

[Joseph2302]

I think EFHW has continued to be very reasonable, on the whole.

But I think this could do with some more explanation:

Scum!me would have voted WCD.

This post is extremely partnery. It’s a super vague defense of efhw while leading her to give some defense of herself.

I agree it has a buddying feel to it. I've noticed that other times during this game. It's so nice to have people who agree with you when you are all alone as town, I hate to question it, but he has been very quiet since he said he realized it's a marathon not a sprint.

So in general, I have continued to find EFHW scummy through D3 so far, but this post just stuck out.  The "when you are all alone as town" bit seems a bit convenient of a word-choice after e's comment the other day comparing and contrasting a "me against the world" vs a "me and my team trying to nail down townies as lynches" (post 690).  But generally this just feels like EFHW was trying to ride the town-read/general agreement until it was pointed out as potentially making her look scummy if fang turns out as scum.

On a different note:

...

I can claim now, if people would like?

Have people forgotten that Joseph seemed to want to claim something and yet all the town PRs are accounted for?
Vig=pps
Tracker=Space
Redeemed Soul=Robz

Would Joseph have actually posted this question if he was just going to claim VT?

It was a joke.
Although if there PRs left, I was also hoping it might drag them into killing me thinking I was a PR

[mcmcsalot]

This is 100% true. I really do think you are scum but I was certain you were scum in that game as well. Do you remember which game it was? It was recent a quick read of it would probably be a good idea.

It was Okkervil mafia

@mcmc - remember for next time that I was town here!

Yea, I was surprised even at the end. I have to go back and see exactly why I scumread you.

Okay so upon reflection of that game I actually just have to say sorry. My case on you there was pretty strong omgus. You we’re misreading me and I felt like you were exaggerating what I was doing and eventually voted me for pressuring galz without voting and over defending twm, which would be scummy things to do but I felt I wasn’t doing them and hen omgussed you.

It is important to note in that game I died night one. So there wasn’t any evolution to my case on you or really a case at all, just a scum read and a town read on our other primary wagon(who did turn out to be town).

With that in mind I think this game my very very early read on you is for similar reasons, I though you were scummily pushing wagons I didn’t like. But it’s evolved to include the actual wagon analysis from 2 days and continued scummy actions from you regarding those wagons. I’m comfortable with my vote where it is.

[mcmcsalot]

And I continue to find DatSwan's long analysis posts a little perplexing. Like, if you're looking at who moved their vote where and when, at least include the points at which the various claims were made.

Also a scummy post. Nitpicking without acknowledging any of the actual content of datswans post. Scum does this all the time when it comes to big wall of text posts. Scum!fang knows everyone’s alignment so is ever so slightly less inclined to thouroughly read swans post and just wants to come away saying something about it is “perplexing” aka subtly saying scummy without making a case.

[snip]

You say 'without making a case'. On who? DatSwan? Well maybe I will sometime. But the main thing that I'm getting from DatSwan's posts is "this guy thinks deeply about things, but misses important details and comes to strange conclusions". Like when I read his posts I find lots to disagree with, but I get the feeling that's just him being him, not him being scum.

I get what you are saying here but it’s scummy not to come to that conclusion in your original analysis. You analyze what he says and then get really wish-washy by saying he comes to strange conclusions but that could just be him being him. It’s throwing shade without having to commit to a real stance on swan that would allow you to let it go or ramp it up if other players go yea I agree that’s strange and scummy.

[mcmcsalot]

@fang: Have you played mafia other places?

I would very much like the answer to this.

[Dylan32]

Why isn't e on the probably town list?

What has fang done to be on your would lynch list?

What have I done to rate a "really want to lynch"?

You just made a string of posts, mostly calling Datswan and Joseph scummy. Then you townread them and apparently randomly scum read me and fang. Really wanting to lynch me is pretty strong feelings. Based on what? There has to be more than my "all alone as town" comment.

You and fang were scummy earlier, and nothing has really changed my mind. So yeah for you it's not just the all alone as town, that's just the most recent addition.  The string of posts was as I was reading and noticing different things, so if you would read them in order like that, you would see that I'm seeing Swan as scummy, but then:

I thought maybe Datswan was in a good wagon position to bus if hyper was a partner, but with how and when they got on the wagon, I'm not thinking that was a bus...  Swan was choosing where to go immediately after a Space VC, chose to be the 4th on cube while WCD was already at 4 and asked for someone else to switch to cube too. It's either a really ballsy play or straight up town.

That cancelled out the rest of the stuff to the point I'm willing to just tip my hat at the end of the day if Swan is actually scum, because I just don't see it.

With Joseph, I actually just agreed with a lot of the reasons people have been giving for him being town, most notably the cube interactions, but I noticed that claim comment and wanted to hit pause for a sec and get an explanation. So I still think simplest solution is probably that he's town, but (re: Joseph's explanation) nobody seemed to take it as a joke when you said it, but it's plausible enough to not worry about now.

[Dylan32]

And I continue to find DatSwan's long analysis posts a little perplexing. Like, if you're looking at who moved their vote where and when, at least include the points at which the various claims were made.

Also a scummy post. Nitpicking without acknowledging any of the actual content of datswans post. Scum does this all the time when it comes to big wall of text posts. Scum!fang knows everyone’s alignment so is ever so slightly less inclined to thouroughly read swans post and just wants to come away saying something about it is “perplexing” aka subtly saying scummy without making a case.

[snip]

You say 'without making a case'. On who? DatSwan? Well maybe I will sometime. But the main thing that I'm getting from DatSwan's posts is "this guy thinks deeply about things, but misses important details and comes to strange conclusions". Like when I read his posts I find lots to disagree with, but I get the feeling that's just him being him, not him being scum.

I get what you are saying here but it’s scummy not to come to that conclusion in your original analysis. You analyze what he says and then get really wish-washy by saying he comes to strange conclusions but that could just be him being him. It’s throwing shade without having to commit to a real stance on swan that would allow you to let it go or ramp it up if other players go yea I agree that’s strange and scummy.

Agree with mcmc in this thread.

[mcmcsalot]

Post count (includes pre game because on mobile)

Infangthief - 96
WestCoastDids - 91
EFHW - 90
pingpongsam - 83
mcmcsalot - 65
Joseph2302 - 63
2.7 - 52
awaclus - 35
Dylan32 - 31
DatSwan - 22

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote count 3.Didds

EFHW: Mcmcsalot, joseph, Dylan
PPS: PPS
Fang: Awaclus

Not voting: WCD, e, Fang, Datswan, EFHW

[EFHW]

Why isn't e on the probably town list?

What has fang done to be on your would lynch list?

What have I done to rate a "really want to lynch"?

You just made a string of posts, mostly calling Datswan and Joseph scummy. Then you townread them and apparently randomly scum read me and fang. Really wanting to lynch me is pretty strong feelings. Based on what? There has to be more than my "all alone as town" comment.

You and fang were scummy earlier, and nothing has really changed my mind.

But how were we scummy? PPS and mcmc have their reasons (that are wrong, but they're putting some thought into it). You just say "you're scummy". Do you have details in mind or are you using them for cover and hopping on a popular wagon?

[Joseph2302]

Vote count 3.Didds

EFHW: Mcmcsalot, joseph, Dylan
PPS: PPS
Fang: Awaclus

Not voting: WCD, e, Fang, Datswan, EFHW

The lynch threshold is 5 right?
Because it's one lower as PPS used their execution ability

[infangthief]

@fang: Have you played mafia other places?

No. Well, a few games of real life mafia 15 years ago, if that counts.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote count 3.Didds

EFHW: Mcmcsalot, joseph, Dylan
PPS: PPS
Fang: Awaclus

Not voting: WCD, e, Fang, Datswan, EFHW

The lynch threshold is 5 right?
Because it's one lower as PPS used their execution ability

Yes, efhw is at l-2 and deadline is not until Tuesday so we don’t have to worry about a weekend low activity issue.

[mcmcsalot]

@fang: Have you played mafia other places?

No. Well, a few games of real life mafia 15 years ago, if that counts.

Well this is more indicative of fang defending efhw as a partner or at least coached scum!fang when it comes to the idea that fang could be buddying efhw to look like a partner on purpose.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote count 3.Didds

EFHW: Mcmcsalot, joseph, Dylan
PPS: PPS
Fang: Awaclus

Not voting: WCD, e, Fang, Datswan, EFHW

The lynch threshold is 5 right?
Because it's one lower as PPS used their execution ability

Corrct. 5= lynch

[infangthief]

Part way through my EFHW reread, near end of day 1. Will resume later, looking towny for now.

[Joseph2302]

Aiming to look more tonight, V/LA tomorrow til Monday

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy- I will be away from regular internet access until Sunday.