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[pingpongsam]

I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?

Uh, yeah, hypercube fake claimed to save his ass. It looked like it might work so Space counter claimed. If we mislynched space then we knew who to kill today. If we killed hypercube then Space was the guaranteed NK which spared the Vig, me, to become IC today.

I wasn't sure if I should let the day develop before pulling the trigger but ultimately I let lalight's availability to coordinate the QT direction with my public reveal decide. I don't think that opportunity was going to come up very often.

[pingpongsam]

Meh.. maybe it's just best to kill him and make them use their NK on me. I don't think I'd have survived the night either way, given that hyper chose me to declare as his tracking result. That was a good play.

I mean, we could have a super-short day tomorrow and just put him on the block, but then scum still gets two town NKs.

Better to lynch hyper now, and let the town vig have a shot at ICing themself tomorrow, especially if it's one of the null-ish or under-the-radar people who'd help with PoE.

[Joseph2302]

As much as I like the pretty pictures, I cannot suffer a witch to live and therefore must IC myself in this way.

Good to know thanks

[pingpongsam]

I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?

Convince me why you are not scum. I've thought you were possibly scum from D1 but my read on you has worsened since then. The only thing that makes me reconsider right now is that you were beginning to relent on WCD towards the end of day and I don't see the scum narrative for that unless it was a bus which while probably effective seems ill timed.

[pingpongsam]

I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?

Even this question seems scummy from someone as astute as you especially when the answer was written into the threads. A better question would be why Hypercube self voted.

[EFHW]

I had thought that we could let hyper live, and when he survived the night we would know he was lying.

As to why I am not scum, was I not the person who questioned hyper's fake claim the closest, and weren't you the one scum-reading me for doing it?

This could so easily be a fakeclaim.

Vote: EFHW

Vote: EFHW

Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.

[EFHW]

I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?

Even this question seems scummy from someone as astute as you especially when the answer was written into the threads. A better question would be why Hypercube self voted.

No, I had determined that the real tracker shouldn't counterclaim. It wasn't necessary because the nk would tell us if hyper was telling the truth. So I don't understand why Space counterclaimed. I guess they suspected that they had been rolecopped, but I wouldn't have assumed that in their place. Hyper could have held out and gotten Space lynched, leading to a free nk for them. Space was offering themself up for that. So why claim?

[pingpongsam]

I had thought that we could let hyper live, and when he survived the night we would know he was lying.

As to why I am not scum, was I not the person who questioned hyper's fake claim the closest, and weren't you the one scum-reading me for doing it?

This could so easily be a fakeclaim.

Vote: EFHW

Vote: EFHW

Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.

You did question the fake claim so I level the same case against you that I thought space was leveling at you that they were in fact leveling towards me. This was a scum gambit for town credibility. I mean, the only real issue with that is it fits my meta way more than yours. Still, your attempt to prove your innocence involves subtly discrediting me when I am now beyond reproach. I get that you can say I could be tunneling and maybe I am which is why I ma trying to get you to say something that doesn't have scum written all over it. You focused entirely on the last few minutes of yesterday as opposed to the rest of the arc where you were already under suspicion. his looks very much like deflection.

[pingpongsam]

I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?

Even this question seems scummy from someone as astute as you especially when the answer was written into the threads. A better question would be why Hypercube self voted.

No, I had determined that the real tracker shouldn't counterclaim. It wasn't necessary because the nk would tell us if hyper was telling the truth. So I don't understand why Space counterclaimed. I guess they suspected that they had been rolecopped, but I wouldn't have assumed that in their place. Hyper could have held out and gotten Space lynched, leading to a free nk for them. Space was offering themself up for that. So why claim?

That's the scum echo chamber speaking. If I were scum in that scenario I'd kill anyone but Hyper or Space just to force a showdown the next day where we have roughly a 50/50 of getting an easy mislynch.

[EFHW]

I had thought that we could let hyper live, and when he survived the night we would know he was lying.

As to why I am not scum, was I not the person who questioned hyper's fake claim the closest, and weren't you the one scum-reading me for doing it?

This could so easily be a fakeclaim.

Vote: EFHW

Vote: EFHW

Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.

You did question the fake claim so I level the same case against you that I thought space was leveling at you that they were in fact leveling towards me. This was a scum gambit for town credibility. I mean, the only real issue with that is it fits my meta way more than yours. Still, your attempt to prove your innocence involves subtly discrediting me when I am now beyond reproach. I get that you can say I could be tunneling and maybe I am which is why I ma trying to get you to say something that doesn't have scum written all over it. You focused entirely on the last few minutes of yesterday as opposed to the rest of the arc where you were already under suspicion. his looks very much like deflection.

Yes, that is what I think (bolded). I can't imagine what I could say that you would accept as indication that I am town.

[pingpongsam]

I had thought that we could let hyper live, and when he survived the night we would know he was lying.

As to why I am not scum, was I not the person who questioned hyper's fake claim the closest, and weren't you the one scum-reading me for doing it?

This could so easily be a fakeclaim.

Vote: EFHW

Vote: EFHW

Fake claim here makes no sense. A counter claim today seals the deal and one tomorrow means the on guillotine player is completely ignored.

You did question the fake claim so I level the same case against you that I thought space was leveling at you that they were in fact leveling towards me. This was a scum gambit for town credibility. I mean, the only real issue with that is it fits my meta way more than yours. Still, your attempt to prove your innocence involves subtly discrediting me when I am now beyond reproach. I get that you can say I could be tunneling and maybe I am which is why I ma trying to get you to say something that doesn't have scum written all over it. You focused entirely on the last few minutes of yesterday as opposed to the rest of the arc where you were already under suspicion. his looks very much like deflection.

Yes, that is what I think (bolded). I can't imagine what I could say that you would accept as indication that I am town.

You can form damning cases on others all day long but can't form a redeeming case for yourself?

[EFHW]

I don't get why Space and hypercube both claimed, though. Does anyone else?

Even this question seems scummy from someone as astute as you especially when the answer was written into the threads. A better question would be why Hypercube self voted.

No, I had determined that the real tracker shouldn't counterclaim. It wasn't necessary because the nk would tell us if hyper was telling the truth. So I don't understand why Space counterclaimed. I guess they suspected that they had been rolecopped, but I wouldn't have assumed that in their place. Hyper could have held out and gotten Space lynched, leading to a free nk for them. Space was offering themself up for that. So why claim?

That's the scum echo chamber speaking. If I were scum in that scenario I'd kill anyone but Hyper or Space just to force a showdown the next day where we have roughly a 50/50 of getting an easy mislynch.

I think scum would kill the real tracker. You are scum-reading me based on speculation of what scum would have done in a hypothetical situation that didn't take place.

PPE: I'm done with this conversation. Anything can be read as scummy if that's what you want to see.

[pingpongsam]

I think scum would kill the real tracker. You are scum-reading me based on speculation of what scum would have done in a hypothetical situation that didn't take place.

PPE: I'm done with this conversation. Anything can be read as scummy if that's what you want to see.

No, I'm scum reading you for willfully ignoring a mathematically appealing next day forced option. I want to see you make a towny point, I'm even asking you to do so. You are the one refusing to make any positive statements about yourself in favor of trying to discredit my theories. Go back and read where you pressured me for examples of how to defend yourself without pressure flipping on the attacker. Pressure flipping is only a useful tool when you are scum and you are dealing with town who is not an IC.

[pingpongsam]

PPE: I'm done with this conversation.

What is this? I'm only playing the game with people I want to play with? If this had been my response to you during my inquisition do you think it would have ended well for me?

[EFHW]

PPE: I'm done with this conversation.

What is this? I'm only playing the game with people I want to play with? If this had been my response to you during my inquisition do you think it would have ended well for me?

Look, I never inquisitioned you. I had an early Day 1 read based on a theory that I now know is wrong. You questioned me, leading to my needing to explain in detail, which got read as pressure. I wasn't trying to tunnel or malign or pressure you. I was stating a scumread and then trying to respond to you as clearly as I could.

[pingpongsam]

PPE: I'm done with this conversation.

What is this? I'm only playing the game with people I want to play with? If this had been my response to you during my inquisition do you think it would have ended well for me?

Look, I never inquisitioned you. I had an early Day 1 read based on a theory that I now know is wrong. You questioned me, leading to my needing to explain in detail, which got read as pressure. I wasn't trying to tunnel or malign or pressure you. I was stating a scumread and then trying to respond to you as clearly as I could.

Understood, but my response was to address your points and answer your questions, not to deflect, pressure flip, or act like this game allows us to choose to ignore publicly posted questions directed at us with no repercussions. Would you prefer that I get back to you with a flat out case on you so you can try to pick it apart that way instead of giving you ample opportunity to present the facts on your own basis?

[pingpongsam]

EFHW, why do you think hypercube self voted? I have my own theories but I'd like to hear your analysis of that particular play. You are awfully critical of Space's counter claim play despite it resolving into a predictable outcome but make no mention of the fact that hypercube made what might 1st appear to be a terrible play as well.

[WestCoastDidds]

I haven’t had time to read most of today yet, but can someone help...

Why did Hyper self vote?

He said Robz caught him out. I’m not seeing that, so some help, please. It looked like Robz just voted for him after so did. What was the “emotional” post?

I’m pleased we caught Hyper and that my scum sense was at least to some degree accurate.

[EFHW]

EFHW, why do you think hypercube self voted? I have my own theories but I'd like to hear your analysis of that particular play. You are awfully critical of Space's counter claim play despite it resolving into a predictable outcome but make no mention of the fact that hypercube made what might 1st appear to be a terrible play as well.

My initial question was exactly this one. Why did he claim scum? Perhaps you thought I was saying why did he claim tracker, which was not my intended question. I think he could have tried to hang in there, but apparently he thought the jig was up. I'm not awfully critical of Space. I'm saying I was surprised because in my mind they had other options.

[pingpongsam]

I can't believe everyone is just dumbfounded how yesterday played out. I expected people to have theories and ideas. Space made the right play. So did hypercube. They both played to their best outs under the circumstances. What is important is understanding how we cornered hypercube and why he behaved how he did once cornered. Is is possible he just threw his own game? Maybe, but there are better explanations that have to do with follow up wagon analysis.

Looking at the evolution of his wagon and his decision to prevent additional wagon votes is damning to a couple of players in particular.

[mcmcsalot]

Sorry I wasn’t around at deadline had a busier weekend than expected.

Back to vote: efhw the person who has been consistently scummy all game.

Super kudos to robz and the worlds towniest wagon that got the hyper lynch through. A one for one is great for us since we started with a high town percentage.

Not sure now was the best time to use vig but it’s done now so we have an ic for the day and then no powers.

I’m going to reread Dylan and fang but absolutely want to lynch efhw.

Ppe pps: I agree, I think it’s indicative of newbie scum getting nervous of how to play the end. I think it’s very possible his wagon was 100% town.

[WestCoastDidds]

I can't believe everyone is just dumbfounded how yesterday played out. I expected people to have theories and ideas. Space made the right play. So did hypercube. They both played to their best outs under the circumstances. What is important is understanding how we cornered hypercube and why he behaved how he did once cornered. Is is possible he just threw his own game? Maybe, but there are better explanations that have to do with follow up wagon analysis.

Looking at the evolution of his wagon and his decision to prevent additional wagon votes is damning to a couple of players in particular.

I am not as dumbfounded by the space claim as I was by the Hyper self-vote, but if he was trying to protect his homies from having to get on the wagon, that makes sense, although it wouldn't have mattered if we had the plurality but perhaps he forgot about that.

I am interested in how he got caught out. I made my case, but I didn't see what Robz picked up on. Hyper said it was an emotional post. Was that the one in response to me when he said I was contorting myself to not continue voting EFHW?  Why did everyone else get on him?

Who do you see as off-wagon damning evidence?

[pingpongsam]

Vote: PPS

[Joseph2302]

Vote: PPS

Wait what?

[Joseph2302]

Vote: EFHW
I liked it D1 and so far everything in D3 is making me like it more and more