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[WestCoastDidds]

WCD - You said DatSwan was town. What was your thinking there?

It’s mostly what was in my post about the end of D2. He provided the critical mass and recruited folks to vote for hyper. I get that he could have been bussing, but there were other wagons still in play (me and joseph) so he didn’t have to do that.

I’ve also voted for him a couple of times this game, so I’m not rock solid but the Hyper lynch is the closest I have to evidence.

[EFHW]

WCD - You said DatSwan was town. What was your thinking there?

It’s mostly what was in my post about the end of D2. He provided the critical mass and recruited folks to vote for hyper. I get that he could have been bussing, but there were other wagons still in play (me and joseph) so he didn’t have to do that.

I’ve also voted for him a couple of times this game, so I’m not rock solid but the Hyper lynch is the closest I have to evidence.

What about Dylan?

[Dylan32]

In that case, I'm pretty set on WCD. Would not lynch Space, fang. I wish that was a longer list. Add DatSwan. Anyone else I'm open to persuasion. I promised a hypercube reread, so I'll get on that.

I would lynch space and fang!

Followed immediately by:

I also would not lynch Space or fang. I'm interested to hear E's Dylan case.

Since Space is town, coming from Cube makes fang look like a possible partner. Would make sense for Cube to feel the need to post this so quickly if one of his partners was listed.

[EFHW]

I finally reread Dylan, and he does come across as less random read all at once than he feels from his infrequent posting. I thought the initial vote on me was RVS. Was it not?

The EOD hyper wagon argument re: DatSwan is a good one. The same argument holds for WCD and Joseph. PPS is IC. e is semi-IC.

POE leads to Awaclus, fang, mcmc. I've been reading mcmc as town, mostly for tunneling me. Awaclus gives us very little to go on. Considering voting fang. He was so very towny early on, though there were a couple things I didn't mention that gave me pause. They seemed like insignificant details at the time. I'll look it over again.

unvote

[Dylan32]

So I just reread pretty much the whole game with a particular eye on mcmc and Awaclus since those were the two people I really hadn't been able to get a read on the entire game.  Short version: I read mcmc as pretty solidly town. His interactions with people that he disagreed with definitely seemed to be coming from a place of trying to genuinely scumhunt and figure things out more than scum would normally be able to fake.  One interesting note is that in his next to last post D2, he says he doesn't really remember much of hypercube and would have to reread him to have thoughts. So he didn't take a stance one way or the other on the one scum flip we have so far.  That's not scummy, just noteworthy.

Awaclus doesn't necessarily match up with my memory from him as scum, but there are a couple people that I have been scum reading that he could potentially be partners with.  I would definitely want to see EFHW and/or fang flip before I would vote for him though.

Fang came out of the reread looking scummier and for sure like a more likely partner of hypercube's than EFHW does, because cube repeatedly stated a scum read on EFHW (and voted) while also saying they found fang towny or pro-town, however it was phrased. Could be a bus, but is would new!scum!hypercube be confident enough to bus for 2 whole days? Possibly, but I think it's less likely than the alternative.

I think for now, while my read on EFHW's play hasn't really changed, my preference for who I would rather see flip first has flipped to fang due to the partner implications. Vote: infangthief

ppe 1

[Dylan32]

Re: EFHW's question about my initial vote.  It was not RVS. It was an early vote without a ton to go on admittedly. It was in response to the "the main problem with the [lynching faust] plan..." post. It just sounded weird and maybe something scum would say, so I used my vote as a tool to see responses and such.

[mcmcsalot]

I finally reread Dylan, and he does come across as less random read all at once than he feels from his infrequent posting. I thought the initial vote on me was RVS. Was it not?

The EOD hyper wagon argument re: DatSwan is a good one. The same argument holds for WCD and Joseph. PPS is IC. e is semi-IC.

POE leads to Awaclus, fang, mcmc. I've been reading mcmc as town, mostly for tunneling me. Awaclus gives us very little to go on. Considering voting fang. He was so very towny early on, though there were a couple things I didn't mention that gave me pause. They seemed like insignificant details at the time. I'll look it over again.

unvote

Dylan’s initial vote was red but was quickly supported by him disagreeing with your early vote on pps for his read on space post.

On one hand I like your continued attempts to reread. On the other hand you moving votes around so much with reasons of “datswan may have scumslipped”, “Dylan conveniently joined my wagon” just to turn around and unvote because Dylan actually isn’t that scummy feels like scum grasping for any alternate wagon instead of town genuinely building an alternate case.

[mcmcsalot]

On the other hand we have fang who has spent most of the day questioning efhw and sitting on a line awaclus wagon.

[EFHW]

I've been sharing my thought process as I go along. How does unvoting=grasping?

[mcmcsalot]

I've been sharing my thought process as I go along. How does unvoting=grasping?

It’s just that your sharing as you go along feels more like trying where you can and not pushing what you feel. The unvote feels genuine but the original votes on Dylan and datswan feel like you are happy to get any wagon that isn’t yours going. Then only once I push you to back up those votes you come out with a reread and a statement that Dylan is indeed townie.

[infangthief]

So, why Fang? Well, why not? Fang has closely tracked EFHW this whole game, often aligning his positions with hers. That seems like a good kind of new scum pattern and gives him plenty of cover. D1 and D2 she had him firmly in her town camp, so it seems to have paid off, too. But when I read him more closely, I see him asking lots of questions but not coming up with very good plays as a result.

EFHW and I have been on similar wagons, yes. PPS and Joseph day 1. You day 2.
However I think my questioning and reads have been mostly independent. The fact that we've sometimes come to similar conclusions is part of why I find her towny though, not the other way around.

Also, if you remember day 1 of NM13, my questions there didn't really lead to good plays either (remember chairs?). I'm trying to do better this game, but, well, yes, the people I found scummy day 1 (Space, PPS, Joseph) and day 2 (DatSwan, you) are all either confirmed town, or were on hyper's wagon. So it's looking like I'm not the one to follow.

[infangthief]

And another early night needed. 8pm yesterday, 9pm today. Wiped out. I should be around a bit early tomorrow, then also near the deadline.

[Swowl]

vote: Dylan.

DatSwan, if I've been so consistently scummy, why didn't you say anything before?

I'm confused. My post on you said almost the opposite of you being consistently skummy. I said I thought you have been doing remarkably well at defending yourself today.

[Swowl]

You say I've been attempting to scumhunt. That sounds to me like you know I am town.

this is your post from 5 posts earlier:

I've explained my actions at length by this point, so you should find an answer to your question in my previous posts. To summarize, I have been scumhunting.

Me adding "attempting to", if anything, would suggest the opposite of a slip. Which is a little less relevant than the point of how flaily this is from you.

[Swowl]

vote: DatSwan

Is his omgus or do you think swan is scummier than fang and Dylan?

I think he may have scumslipped. This about face is also scummy.

Again... flaily: What about face. I have been doing almost nothing but look into you and surrounding situations for all of Day 3.

[Swowl]

Vote: Datswan

Looking back at things and reminded why I thought Dylan was town.

What am I missing here?
My most recent post (which I think this is regarding), was me comparing reads on the two current wagons (Dylan and EFHW) and then voting for EFHW.

I def could just be being dense... but how does you thinking Dylan is town lead to voting for me here?

[Swowl]

I've been sharing my thought process as I go along. How does unvoting=grasping?

It’s just that your sharing as you go along feels more like trying where you can and not pushing what you feel. The unvote feels genuine but the original votes on Dylan and datswan feel like you are happy to get any wagon that isn’t yours going. Then only once I push you to back up those votes you come out with a reread and a statement that Dylan is indeed townie.

So I am obviously not advocating my own wagon here... but EFHW "jumping to any wagon that is not their own" is kind of NAI is it not? I mean regardless of town or skum, she would do the same thing at L-1 either way right?

[EFHW]

vote: Dylan.

DatSwan, if I've been so consistently scummy, why didn't you say anything before?

I'm confused. My post on you said almost the opposite of you being consistently skummy. I said I thought you have been doing remarkably well at defending yourself today.

You said I was the scummiest scum that ever scummed, but on earlier days you were leaning town on me. That seemed like a dramatic change. Or were you joking?

[Swowl]

vote: Dylan.

DatSwan, if I've been so consistently scummy, why didn't you say anything before?

I'm confused. My post on you said almost the opposite of you being consistently skummy. I said I thought you have been doing remarkably well at defending yourself today.

You said I was the scummiest scum that ever scummed, but on earlier days you were leaning town on me. That seemed like a dramatic change. Or were you joking?

I believe the confusion is based on timeline. My leaning town on you (when I was pushing Joseph), was prior to the Hypercube flip. After the Hypercube flip, and a read back, my opinion changed.

[Dylan32]

Vote: Datswan

Looking back at things and reminded why I thought Dylan was town.

What am I missing here?
My most recent post (which I think this is regarding), was me comparing reads on the two current wagons (Dylan and EFHW) and then voting for EFHW.

I def could just be being dense... but how does you thinking Dylan is town lead to voting for me here?

I didn't read that as vote followed by reason for choosing you, I read it as vote for you and the reason the vote wasn't for me after his comments earlier, because a change right there would have looked weird without saying why he wasn't voting for me.

[EFHW]

vote: Dylan.

DatSwan, if I've been so consistently scummy, why didn't you say anything before?

I'm confused. My post on you said almost the opposite of you being consistently skummy. I said I thought you have been doing remarkably well at defending yourself today.

You said I was the scummiest scum that ever scummed, but on earlier days you were leaning town on me. That seemed like a dramatic change. Or were you joking?

I believe the confusion is based on timeline. My leaning town on you (when I was pushing Joseph), was prior to the Hypercube flip. After the Hypercube flip, and a read back, my opinion changed.

Ok, so what is the narrative as me being Hypercube partner? I put the most pressure re: possible fakeclaim, against objections of PPS, who is now IC.

[pingpongsam]

I did a quick reread with EFHW in mind. My final verdict there is I do not think she is most definitely scum. I think she certainly could be but there is sufficient evidence that she is not. I want to reread against fang. I would like for them to be partners with EFHW but failing that I think there is potentially scum there. The big issue is I read mostly from a gut/meta place and I have no fang experience to draw upon. Awaclus is most certainly possible scum just as much as being town. His play style is fantastic as scum and basically terrible as town except for the part where scum keep him alive for the WIFOM. It’s a meta I spent a long time developing myself.

McMc is capable of being this towny as scum but he is way more wagon driver than this and everything he has posted has sounded town to me. I’ve decided for my purpose before I die tonight that he is town and won’t consider a lynch there.

[pingpongsam]

Awaclus is town, I seen it in there. I mean, I guess he totally made sure to very slyly bus the shit out of hypercube even though it wasn’t at all necessary.

For today, no lynch on Awaclus.

[pingpongsam]

Not even that deep into a reread and the POE is strongly pointing to EFHW fang scum partners. Really look at their behavior towards each other and especially to known townies and hypercube. I think e could maybe be scum but the evidence everyone else has already mentioned seems strongly convincing he is town.

[pingpongsam]

The more I read and wagon analyse I see a cube fang EFHW team seamlessly. Especially when there were competing wagons between Joseph and Robz.