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Author Topic: What other games are as good as Dominion?  (Read 101578 times)

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Ozle

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2012, 12:33:30 pm »
0

This seems a bit of a circular argument.

You're getting picked on because your good, thus making it harder for you to win.
So essentially you want a multiplayer game where more luck is involved, as if you dont want people to pick on you then you want less interaction, and if everybody is playing thier own game then it becomes more like a solataire game and if you are better than everyone else will just lead to a parade of you winning, whereas I assume you want some sort of challenge, meaning the only variety to throw in is luck...



However, saying this, there are options I would suggest Alhambra: The Card Game.You buy cards from a pool, but you cant specifically target players, although you can adapt to what other players buy. (And this without the problem I find inherent in games like Peurto Rico where one bad player spoils it because he sets up the next one)
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O

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2012, 01:21:55 pm »
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Mentioned on the first page, Acquire is really an excellent game if you have 3+ players who all tend to be at least decent at strategy games. I've played for years and still really have yet to master it.
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Davio

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2012, 02:20:10 pm »
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Somehow I always lose Acquire to players who invest all their money in the beginning in the most expensive stock, only seeing it grow to the biggest monster on board because everyone always merges "up".
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AquaBirdie

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2012, 02:32:59 pm »
+3

I've only been playing Dominion since X-mas, now it is all I want to play. That being said ...

7 Wonders is our go-to game to start a sit down game night. It is quick and if you want to, you can try and block people, but it does not get my goat when someone does it to me. We usually mix in some tension breaker games such as Sneaks & Snitches and maybe even go crazy for a bit with a little Cash and Guns.  Others in this thread have recommended Train and Power Grid games, we play those, or something like those next.   I love Puerto Rico, Carcassonne, BlueMoon City  :-*, Loyang , Agricola, the list is too long.

The prefect game night, to me anyway, is like planning a meal. Know everyone's taste - their likes and hates. Start with something to amuse the pallet (Bohnanza maybe).  A serious protein like DieMacher for the main course and something silly for the end - Apples to Apples - every one will laugh.

Some people have food allergies and can't have nuts - me I've stopped playing Catan with some of my game group because it can start to get nasty and at one point or another someone feels picked on.  They still play it and I sit out.  I am not saying I have a nut-like allergy to some of my game group just to their strategy.  Our revolving group has a range of abilities - from seriously smart people and some who think all games start and end with Monopoly (no disrespect intended). SO i don't think you need a new game group (as suggested)  just more games  - and  - a variety of game types.  Just like friends.  :)
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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2012, 05:02:56 am »
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I really like Omen - Reign of War.

Fantastic card game with great artwork. Arcana - revised edition is very good too.
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Scott Pilgrim

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #55 on: February 29, 2012, 07:33:56 pm »
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Kingdom builder ;)
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randomdragoon

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #56 on: February 29, 2012, 10:38:31 pm »
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I really like Space Alert -- It's a fully cooperative game, so no ganging up, but it's also played in real-time (everyone plans out their actions at the same time, and there is a time limit. Afterwards you go around and resolve the actions to see how you did) so it doesn't have the "Leader decides what everyone does" syndrome, because no one person can usually track everything that's going on at once. I find it really fun for a cooperative game where, instead of being able to tell someone exactly what moves to make, you only have enough time to say something like "Can you take care of that space octopus over there?" and have to trust that your teammate will do the right thing.
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DG

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #57 on: March 04, 2012, 12:54:11 pm »
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Friday is a small Robinson Crusoe themed solo game. You start with a pool of life tokens and a deck of Robinson cards that are pretty weak. Each turn you face a challenge drawn from an island deck and can draw (blind) an appropriate number of Robinson cards for the challenge and pay life to draw extra cards if needed. If you win you add the challenge card (usually good) to your Robinson deck and use it in future turns, but if you lose you pay in life tokens and can destroy some of your played cards. When you exhaust the Robinson deck you reshuffle and add an aging card (bad). When you exhaust the island deck you reshuffle that and all the challenges get harder. After three times through the island deck you fight pirates to survive and win, provided you have some life left.

There's some canny deck management in here, choice in how you attempt the challenges, and the Robinson cards from the island deck have an interesting mix of abilities. If you like the idea of a solo game then this will do nicely.
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Geronimoo

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2012, 03:49:35 am »
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Galaxy Trucker is awesome! If you like Swindler games where engines get torn apart and people suddenly have to play awful cards like Workshop and Scout instead of Fishing Village and Envoy, you'll love Galaxy Trucker. If you're not into chaos, puzzling or fun, then go play some chess.

Kingdom Builder was a pleasant surprise. When looking at the board for the first time I thought I was going to hate this game: complex, long and boring. Then, at Zuiderspel (a small gaming convention) I played it for the first time and it was exactly the opposite: simple, short and ... not boring. The guy explaining the game had us playing in 3 minutes and it was over in 50 and I lost but still had fun. Donald X, hats off!
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Davio

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2012, 05:04:08 am »
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I wonder why I keep going to the same venues, but never run into you, Geronimoo.
Of course, I have no idea what you look like, so if you would stand in front of me in line for the hamburgers I wouldn't even know it was you!

I was @ Zuiderspel with the mrs., but not for long. She isn't that into boardgaming and she had a bad pregnancy day, so we were there for just over an hour.
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Asklepios

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2012, 05:05:22 am »
+1

In reply to the OP, I think this is a very tough question. I honestly feel that Dominion is the best game I've ever played, when it comes to that perfectly rounded balance of luck, skill and elegance.

There are games out there that are better than Dominion in some ways, but which are worse in others, and it remains my favourite game overall. I'll list the ones that beat Dominion in some ways.

First up, Chess. No, this isn't a throwaway silly answer, but a serious one. There's a reason why chess remains recognised as the purest and most brilliant strategy game in the western world. It has strategic depths that Dominion could never hope to reach, with complexity evolving from simplicity at fractal levels. Also, the more you study chess the more it challenges you. This is a rare thing to find, as most modern (by which I mean 20th century onwards) games don't give that: with something like Dominion, for example, I find myself less challenged by it the better I get at it.

Second, Vampire: The Eternal Struggle. While I love Magic: The Gathering, I've always considered V:TES to be the pinnacle of CCG design, especially when played in the five-player format within a tournament setting. Given your opening post, you may find some elements of V:TES distasteful. Because its a game where you bring your preconstructed deck, its not always fair. Even though it has an attack-left mechanism, its still a game where you can be ganged up on and where a weaker player can commonly play kingmaker. The beauty of V:TES, however, is that the thematics and the design all make the vicious free for all into a design feature rather than a bug. You're not at the mercy at the random whims of your opponents: rather, its by manipulating the balance of power and by trading favours and promises that you truly master the game. The game rewards those who know how to tabletalk from a position of strength or weakness, and who understand the dynamic of the shifting pressures of force and threat.

Third, the Descent board game. Is it balanced or strategically deep? Hell, no. Well, not compared to something like Dominion. But short of an actual roleplaying game, no game I've played gives me the sensation of fun and of walking in my character's shoes. I have more fun playing Descent than Dominion, even if I recognise that from the point of view of elegance and depth of game design, its not really that clever.
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theory

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2012, 09:47:05 am »
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Not that this hasn't been mentioned already in this topic, but Race for the Galaxy seems to have a lot of crossover appeal with Dominion.  I think if Donald X. had designed Race for the Galaxy, we'd all be playing that instead.  As it stands, RftG suffers a little more from balance issues than Dominion, but it's still a superb game if you want a similar feel of combo-building and deck/tableau building, with a strong dash of subtle interaction not present in Dominion.
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Kirian

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2012, 10:14:47 am »
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Having played it at BGG.CON, I must say Eminent Domain is the first deckbuilding game that I think deserves mention in the same breath as Dominion*. I certainly won't say it's as good, but it's a very worthy game in its own right.

What guided said, other than to say that EmDo is certainly as good (though not currently as deep) as Dominion.

Galaxy Trucker is awesome! If you like Swindler games where engines get torn apart and people suddenly have to play awful cards like Workshop and Scout instead of Fishing Village and Envoy, you'll love Galaxy Trucker. If you're not into chaos, puzzling or fun, then go play some chess.

Ugh.  I had more fun during my wisdom tooth extraction, and I was under local anesthetic only, no gas.  Listening to them crack teeth apart to remove them?  Ten times as much fun and interest as Galaxy Trucker.  I rarely will extricate myself from a game partway through, but I had to bow out after the first round rather than start tearing pieces apart.
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Davio

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2012, 10:15:08 am »
+2

Re: Chess

I've found new love for chess due to these YouTube videos by Jerry from the Chesswebsite.
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paddyodoors

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2012, 10:20:19 am »
+1

Not that this hasn't been mentioned already in this topic, but Race for the Galaxy seems to have a lot of crossover appeal with Dominion.  I think if Donald X. had designed Race for the Galaxy, we'd all be playing that instead.  As it stands, RftG suffers a little more from balance issues than Dominion, but it's still a superb game if you want a similar feel of combo-building and deck/tableau building, with a strong dash of subtle interaction not present in Dominion.

My family (er, I mean "regular gaming partners") got into Puerto Rico and so segued into San Juan.  I've heard this game  compared most often to RftG.  I've never heard it compared to Dominion.  Care to elaborate on these three, theory?

As for me, I'm much more into wargames than Euros, especially the card-driven, point-to-point system popularized by Mark Herman's We the People.  When my family (er, I mean "regular gaming partners") sits down to play, we often play Euros and I participate to be a sport, but don't really LOVE it.  It wasn't until I tried Dominion on the passive recommendation of a fellow Twilight Struggle player (who-may-or-may-not-be-an-administrator-of-these-forums [thanks, man  :) ]) that I discovered that there was such a thing as a "deep" Euro.

Having read through this thread, I am curious to know what games each of you:
-considers to be a deep Euro (or even non-Euro non-wargame)? and
-stand the test of time (i.e. dozens and dozens of replays without exhausting the depths of the game)?


Multi-player non-wargames that we've played:
                (are any of these "deep"?  if so, I either haven't played them enough or with the right perspective.  consider me dense.)
Carcassonne
Citadels
Dominion (Duh!)(minion)
El Grande
Incan Gold / Diamant
Mystery of the Abbey
Pirates Cove
Power Grid
Puerto Rico
San Juan
Settlers
Ticket to Ride
TransAmerica

In contrast to the OP, I am not explicitly looking for games, like Dominion, that eschew direct conflict or "ganging up on the leader."  Being a wargamer at heart, those types of games don't bother me -- and a temperate amount of it doesn't bother my family (er, I mean "regular gaming partners"), either.

Thoughts?  Which games on the list are deep?  Which deep, unlisted games do you think would be useful to add?
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theory

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2012, 10:33:13 am »
+1

Not that this hasn't been mentioned already in this topic, but Race for the Galaxy seems to have a lot of crossover appeal with Dominion.  I think if Donald X. had designed Race for the Galaxy, we'd all be playing that instead.  As it stands, RftG suffers a little more from balance issues than Dominion, but it's still a superb game if you want a similar feel of combo-building and deck/tableau building, with a strong dash of subtle interaction not present in Dominion.

My family (er, I mean "regular gaming partners") got into Puerto Rico and so segued into San Juan.  I've heard this game  compared most often to RftG.  I've never heard it compared to Dominion.  Care to elaborate on these three, theory?
San Juan is like RftG Lite.  If you enjoy San Juan but want a little more, RftG is perfect.

The point of RftG being similar to Dominion is that deck-building shares some basic similarities with tableau-building, except that in RftG you have permanent access to your entire "deck" at all times.  There's still a sense of looking for, identifying, and exploiting combos on the fly.  Except RftG adds an element of interaction/prediction: the person who wins is going to be the person who plays the best second-order strategy, i.e., taking advantage of your opponent's role selections in order to leapfrog forward.  Maybe both of you want to Settle, but you'd gain an even bigger advantage by leeching off of his Settle and choosing Trade instead, so that you get both the Settle and Trade benefits and he only gets the Settle benefit.

Quote
Carcassonne
Citadels
Dominion (Duh!)(minion)
El Grande
Incan Gold / Diamant
Mystery of the Abbey
Pirates Cove
Power Grid
Puerto Rico
San Juan
Settlers
Ticket to Ride
TransAmerica
I would consider Power Grid, Puerto Rico to be the deepest.  I think TransAmerica is deep too, but no one agrees with me on that point.  Probably ranks along with Settlers and Ticket.  I have not played most of the others.
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Kuildeous

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2012, 12:27:55 pm »
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I would consider Power Grid, Puerto Rico to be the deepest.  I think TransAmerica is deep too, but no one agrees with me on that point.  Probably ranks along with Settlers and Ticket.  I have not played most of the others.

I agree that Power Grid and Puerto Rico are the deepest. Power Grid is very crunchy on the surface and inside. Puerto Rico does not look as crunchy as it really is. You have to really evaluate how your decision will affect the other players. If you can take Trader to sell your Coffee for 6 doubloons while others are unable to sell their goods, then you have gained an advantage. Should you Captain and get those VPs? Will someone score more VPs than you? And is that a risk worth taking.

I love Mystery of the Abbey, because I like sorting things out. I consider it deep on that level, but the game play itself is not that incredibly deep. There are some great interactions you can do, and the last two times I played, I cost someone points because I worked as hard as I can to keep at least one suspect card in my hand. Both times, the suspect I kept were falsely accused. There are other strategies to consider, like when it's a good time to search a player's cell and even which player you should search (big hint: probably not the person that you've been handing cards to unless it's early in the game). Mystery does have a lot of opportunities to shake things up, though, so the best strategy may become moot as you end up giving your entire hand to another player. But I do love the deduction and the questioning. Asking the right question is difficult, because you want to ask a question that is meaningful to you but gibberish to everyone who can hear you.
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greatexpectations

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2012, 12:37:51 pm »
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puerto rico is definitely a really deep game, and it is a very very close second to dominion for being my favorite game.  it does suffer a bit because games can be heavily influenced due to poor decisions by less skilled players. i have found that the ability to influence other player's decisions (either verbally or through my play) is almost as useful as strong strategic play.
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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2012, 07:50:01 pm »
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What other games are as good as Dominion???

Honestly, not to be a homer, but none IMHO.

Reasons:

Fast, Easy to learn yet hard to Master, even non-gamers play it and get addicted. 

I have not seen a game that tops this.  Sure Catan, Puerto Rico, Railway games, Deep strategy or Euro Games are great but the impact Dominion has is unmatched.  It will go down as a classic like Risk, Monopoly and Catan.
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theory

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2012, 07:57:24 pm »
+1

It wasn't until I tried Dominion on the passive recommendation of a fellow Twilight Struggle player (who-may-or-may-not-be-an-administrator-of-these-forums [thanks, man  :) ]) that I discovered that there was such a thing as a "deep" Euro.
:)

By the way, Twilight Struggle is the only game I would put on par with Dominion.  But Hanabi is rapidly rising up the ranks.  And Tichu is close behind, although the more I learn Bridge the less interested in Tichu I am.
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Tables

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2012, 09:12:11 am »
+1

It has a huge catalogue of issues, and it only appeals to a certain group of gamers, and it really needs a good group to get into the mood for it... but Battlestar Galactica is one of my favourite games, and has been for the past year. It's worlds apart from Dominion, and can really drag on sometimes, but it tends to be tense and exciting, and if you know the series somewhat it can be a great game to play with just a little in character dialogue.

Because let's be honest, what's more fun than spending an hour building up trust, only to get XO'd (extra actions) and use it to bring humanity to the brink of destruction in just thirty seconds?
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

popsofctown

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #71 on: May 05, 2012, 11:08:45 pm »
0

Is Twilight Struggle a nickname for Vampire: the Eternal Struggle or its own thing?

When I think about games from a design perspective, Dominion might be the best one I've played.  I like MtG, but I don't know if that's because it has more expansions, and decent flavor (Dominion has the worst art and flavor of any game I can think of, sorry if I offend).

Dominion inspires me to want to try to make my own game that takes elements of what makes it good.  I'm going to get a digital or physical prototype of something before the summer is over (I need to find more Conspirators collaborators).

Dominion takes a good part of ccgs, selecting counterstrategies and synergies, but then puts the choices midgame.  CCGs force a rock paper scissors meta, designing cards in a way that removes a degenerate best strategy.  In Dominion there might be a degenerate best strategy, but it's very frequently hard to discover.  Boards often offer rock, paper, and scissors, but you aren't locked into any of those choices before a tournament even begins, and it's often hard to design when you can make the first throw and be safe. 

In lots of ways it reminds me of Starcraft.  Which is a really good, deep, balanced game but a bit of a toughie for me as my IQ tester said I'm "smart, but slow".

I really hope someone makes a derivative game like Dominion that trades some of the low barrier to entry for additional quality (if such an exchange is possible).
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 11:11:39 pm by popsofctown »
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Kirian

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #72 on: May 06, 2012, 11:56:52 pm »
+1

Is Twilight Struggle a nickname for Vampire: the Eternal Struggle or its own thing?

Twilight Struggle is about the Cold War.  Vampires of a different sort.

That said, a setting with both vampires and Cold War troubles would certainly be interesting, but probably not for a game.
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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #73 on: May 07, 2012, 05:31:33 pm »
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I just played Settelers of Catan with some friends, pretty good, some good strategic value, but mostly dice luck.
Nowhere near close to Dominion, though. :)
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timchen

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Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #74 on: May 07, 2012, 08:36:40 pm »
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I don't think Power Grid is that deep. Complicated, yes, but not that deep.

Very often your decision comes to what you expect to appear next in the power plant market. I guess you can always play safe and take an acceptable/low risk route, but that also means very often you will lose to ok players who just luck out. And for a game lasting hours, it's not that easy to wait the luck to average out.
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