Dominion > Dominion Articles
Chariot Race
Chris is me:
--- Quote from: faust on September 18, 2018, 09:19:33 am ---Yeah I think this is not particular to Chariot Race, and it is also less of a big deal with Chariot Race because you won't be able to use Chariot Race as your sole source of VP anyway.
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...I'm not sure you've ever played a good Chariot Race board, then. Maybe Provinces get bought to end the game at some point, but it's more than possible to win with Chariot Race being most or all of your VP; this happens all the time.
faust:
--- Quote from: Holunder9 on September 18, 2018, 09:56:55 am ---Chariot Race is an extremely tricky card which I don't totally get and it is pretty board- and play-dependent (yes, you gotta adapt to what the opponents are doing more so than otherwise). This is why I don't think that a rule of thumb like "get 3", is helpful.
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I don't think an article without a rule of thumb is helpful.
markus:
I think the misleading bit about the diminishing returns and rule-of-3 bit is that what actually matters is the share of Chariot Races in your deck ( as long as you draw the same share of your deck per turn). If your conclusion was that it should be 3 CR in a deck of 10, it should be 6 CR in a deck of 20.
Each expensive card that you add to your deck makes your existing and future CR more valuable.
faust:
--- Quote from: 4est on September 18, 2018, 09:53:51 am ---A couple things I'd point out: though you imply this in the section on how to make Chariot Race better, just as trashing is critical for increasing your average deck value (also, you could probably emphasize this point even more throughout the article--Chariot Race is often pretty bad on boards with no trashing), so too junking can be very good for decreasing your opponent's average deck value.
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It's true I suppose. But if there is junking then both people junk; sure the Chariot Race player wants to junk their opponent more than they are junked themselves, but the same is true without Chariot Race, so I didn't think it particularly worth mentioning.
--- Quote from: 4est on September 18, 2018, 09:53:51 am ---Also on specific card interactions, there are two especially important ones that are missing and/or criminally undersold. First, Sea Hag is one of the most effective cards for manipulating the top card of your opponent's deck, by making them topdeck a Curse before playing your line of Chariot Races.
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Sea Hag runs into two problems. A) It is terminal. B) By the time you have set up a consistent Chariot Race deck, the Curses are gone. It may be that there is a board where you wouldn't usually get Sea Hag that you might get it mid-game for this effect, so that might be worth mentioning, but as a general rule I don't like to point at specific 2-card combos in articles, and I don't think this is powerful enough to break with that rule.
--- Quote from: 4est on September 18, 2018, 09:53:51 am ---Secondly, putting Secret Passage in the same category as Mandarin and Count for controlling the top of your deck is crazy--Secret Passage is so, so much better than these
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Well, the categories weren't based on how good the cards are, but on their mechanics. Sure you can use Secret Passage for consistent points, but then you've spent $7 and two buys for what is essentially a Peddler with +1VP, which is not that impressive, and it still won't work if your opponent has a Province on top. Of course that is still way better than using Mandarin, and it also does its thing more consistently than deck inspection, but the problem is it doesn't do anything else, and those deck inspecting cards would also provide you with some other benefit while not being much worse at setting up Chariot Race.
Maybe that section could use clarification if that point doesn't come across.
Holunder9:
--- Quote from: faust on September 18, 2018, 10:12:42 am ---
--- Quote from: Holunder9 on September 18, 2018, 09:56:55 am ---Chariot Race is an extremely tricky card which I don't totally get and it is pretty board- and play-dependent (yes, you gotta adapt to what the opponents are doing more so than otherwise). This is why I don't think that a rule of thumb like "get 3", is helpful.
--- End quote ---
I don't think an article without a rule of thumb is helpful.
--- End quote ---
It is not like, I don't know, talking about a sifter like Dungeon and saying something that you want 1-2 with trashers and 2-3 without trashers or whatever, i.e. a card where a rule of thumb is useful because you actually follow it during play.
As Chris is me has said, Chariot Race is a card of which you sometimes want as many copies as possible and on some boards you want none.
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