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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contests #1 - #100  (Read 1644780 times)

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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2100 on: May 28, 2019, 02:37:46 am »
0

This is a virtually identical to Disciple and probably OKish (there are numerous good reasons for why Disciple has been implemented as a non-Supply card) as a a Kingdom card.

There might be some terminals which you want a copy of in a Peasant Kingdom due to Teacher yet don't necessarily want to copy in other cases. So this is one dimension in which this is weaker than Disciple (no Teacher around) which one has to keep in mind.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2101 on: May 28, 2019, 12:31:44 pm »
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Less than 24 hours left in this week's contest!
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2102 on: May 28, 2019, 01:24:57 pm »
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For what it's worth, I think Disciple is substantially stronger than KC as an effect. As long as you throne a card whose pile isn't empty, you effectively get three plays of that card if you can draw into it and have an extra action, which you can have in the late mid to late game pretty easily most of the time, and then you permanently have a free copy of that card.
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2103 on: May 28, 2019, 01:37:00 pm »
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For what it's worth, I think Disciple is substantially stronger than KC as an effect. As long as you throne a card whose pile isn't empty, you effectively get three plays of that card if you can draw into it and have an extra action, which you can have in the late mid to late game pretty easily most of the time, and then you permanently have a free copy of that card.

I would disagree, because you can KC a KC. Discipling a Disciple is not any better than playing 2 Disciples separately. It may be more powerful with only one copy, but with KC you definitely want more than that.
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2104 on: May 28, 2019, 02:57:37 pm »
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Hi all, this is my first attempt at creating a custom card, so all comments are welcome!

Students "study" other actions and are then able to perform those actions for the rest of the game.



Changelog:
v0.1 - initial
v0.2 - added concept of playing only face up cards and turning over more expensive cards; also improved wording on the "on buy" section
v0.3 - changed "turn over until end of turn" to "turn face down until this card is discarded" and added "other than Student" as modifier to the set aside cards
v0.4 - added icon and image

FAQ / Secret History:

At first, I had it put Student tokens on Supply piles, but that didn't didn't work well with Spilt Piles (or Knight or Knights).

I wasn't sure of cost, because it really could be almost anything (since it's cost affects how many debt tokens you need to take to "study" a new action). So I could also see it as a $4.

Was also unsure if "studying" should be on buy or on gain. (if you only gain this, it's a stop card, which could also make it interesting to use with some attacks like Ambassador).

Lastly, the intent was that these cards are not part of your deck at the end of the game. This works differently that Inheritance, so I'd be curious to hear opinions on that (and if they do count, should I also limit them to non-Victory?)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 01:22:35 am by scolapasta »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2105 on: May 28, 2019, 03:09:35 pm »
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Nearly (BoM cannot immitate cards whose Supply piles are empty) strictly worse than Band of Misfits.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2106 on: May 28, 2019, 03:13:30 pm »
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For what it's worth, I think Disciple is substantially stronger than KC as an effect. As long as you throne a card whose pile isn't empty, you effectively get three plays of that card if you can draw into it and have an extra action, which you can have in the late mid to late game pretty easily most of the time, and then you permanently have a free copy of that card.

I would disagree, because you can KC a KC.

You can also Disciple a KC and it's stronger than KCing KC. The argument you want to be making here is that you can KC a Disciple.
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2107 on: May 28, 2019, 03:20:39 pm »
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Nearly (BoM cannot immitate cards whose Supply piles are empty) strictly worse than Band of Misfits.

Maybe my phrasing wasn't clear - when you take the debt tokens, students can "study" more expensive cards, i.e. take 1 Debt, "study" an action that costs 5, take 2 Debt, "study" an action that costs 6, etc.
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2108 on: May 28, 2019, 03:21:20 pm »
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For what it's worth, I think Disciple is substantially stronger than KC as an effect. As long as you throne a card whose pile isn't empty, you effectively get three plays of that card if you can draw into it and have an extra action, which you can have in the late mid to late game pretty easily most of the time, and then you permanently have a free copy of that card.

I would disagree, because you can KC a KC.

You can also Disciple a KC and it's stronger than KCing KC. The argument you want to be making here is that you can KC a Disciple.

Again, Disciples are better for single (or maybe even double) copies. Each individual KC is better when you have many, though. The same can't be said (quite as much) for Disciple.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2109 on: May 28, 2019, 03:24:33 pm »
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Nearly (BoM cannot immitate cards whose Supply piles are empty) strictly worse than Band of Misfits.

Maybe my phrasing wasn't clear - when you take the debt tokens, students can "study" more expensive cards, i.e. take 1 Debt, "study" an action that costs 5, take 2 Debt, "study" an action that costs 6, etc.
"that costs up to $4 plus $1 per D you took" is the wording you want then.
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2110 on: May 28, 2019, 03:36:48 pm »
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Nearly (BoM cannot immitate cards whose Supply piles are empty) strictly worse than Band of Misfits.

Maybe my phrasing wasn't clear - when you take the debt tokens, students can "study" more expensive cards, i.e. take 1 Debt, "study" an action that costs 5, take 2 Debt, "study" an action that costs 6, etc.
"that costs up to $4 plus $1 per D you took" is the wording you want then.

I had considered that, but didn't want to hard code the cost, due to Highway / Bridge, etc. If you played two highways first, I still wanted you to have to take 3 debt to get a KC. (maybe that doesn't need to be a consideration?)

I struggled quite a while with the phrasing, so am open to suggestions.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 03:41:53 pm by scolapasta »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2111 on: May 28, 2019, 03:43:05 pm »
0

Hi all, this is my first attempt at creating a custom card, so all comments are welcome!

Students "study" other actions and are then able to perform those actions for the rest of the game.



FAQ / Secret History:

At first, I had it put Student tokens on Supply piles, but didn't that didn't work well with Spilt Piles (or Knight or Knights).

I wasn't sure of cost, because it really could be almost anything (since it's cost affects how many debt tokens you need to take to "study" a new action). So I could also see it as a $4.

Was also unsure if "studying" should be on buy or on gain. (if you only gain this, it's a stop card, which could also make it interesting to use with some attacks like Ambassador).

Lastly, the intent was that these cards are not part of your deck at the end of the game. This works differently that Inheritance, so I'd be curious to hear opinions on that (and if they do count, should I also limit them to non-Victory?)

P.S. Where do you all get your images for the cards? I would love to add a public domain student to it. Thanks!

I think the biggest problem is the big power difference when it is in a Kingdom with cards that cost more than vs when in a Kingdom without such cards. When King's Court or Grand Market are in the kingdom, it feels like this would be overpowered... for taking just once; you can now buy King's Courts and/or Grand Markets for just . But in a Kingdom where is the most expensive action card (which I think is most Kingdoms), then this is generally just a worse Band of Misfits
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2112 on: May 28, 2019, 04:21:43 pm »
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Nearly (BoM cannot immitate cards whose Supply piles are empty) strictly worse than Band of Misfits.

Maybe my phrasing wasn't clear - when you take the debt tokens, students can "study" more expensive cards, i.e. take 1 Debt, "study" an action that costs 5, take 2 Debt, "study" an action that costs 6, etc.
"that costs up to $4 plus $1 per D you took" is the wording you want then.

I had considered that, but didn't want to hard code the cost, due to Highway / Bridge, etc. If you played two highways first, I still wanted you to have to take 3 debt to get a KC. (maybe that doesn't need to be a consideration?)

I struggled quite a while with the phrasing, so am open to suggestions.
"that costs less than this plus $1 per D you took" then. You definitely have to reference Coin costs, otherwise the wording is unclear.
As GenodIkari said, this card is not in the Goldilocks zone: either it is weaker than Band of Misfits or it is a cheap/easy way to get a $6+ Action.
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2113 on: May 28, 2019, 04:30:02 pm »
+1

I think the biggest problem is the big power difference when it is in a Kingdom with cards that cost more than vs when in a Kingdom without such cards. When King's Court or Grand Market are in the kingdom, it feels like this would be overpowered... for taking just once; you can now buy King's Courts and/or Grand Markets for just . But in a Kingdom where is the most expensive action card (which I think is most Kingdoms), then this is generally just a worse Band of Misfits

OK, I see the overpowering for KC. I'm still not sure about being that much worse than Band of Misfits since it can also play as cards that are $5, but the fact that you need to buy at least 2 for it be useful in that context is problematic.

The goal was to have a card that pays debt to "study" what it can do. I'll keep trying to think of ways to balance this out some. I have a few hours. :)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 04:31:22 pm by scolapasta »
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2114 on: May 28, 2019, 04:31:19 pm »
0

Hi all, this is my first attempt at creating a custom card, so all comments are welcome!

Students "study" other actions and are then able to perform those actions for the rest of the game.



FAQ / Secret History:

At first, I had it put Student tokens on Supply piles, but didn't that didn't work well with Spilt Piles (or Knight or Knights).

I wasn't sure of cost, because it really could be almost anything (since it's cost affects how many debt tokens you need to take to "study" a new action). So I could also see it as a $4.

Was also unsure if "studying" should be on buy or on gain. (if you only gain this, it's a stop card, which could also make it interesting to use with some attacks like Ambassador).

Lastly, the intent was that these cards are not part of your deck at the end of the game. This works differently that Inheritance, so I'd be curious to hear opinions on that (and if they do count, should I also limit them to non-Victory?)

P.S. Where do you all get your images for the cards? I would love to add a public domain student to it. Thanks!

I think the biggest problem is the big power difference when it is in a Kingdom with cards that cost more than vs when in a Kingdom without such cards. When King's Court or Grand Market are in the kingdom, it feels like this would be overpowered... for taking just once; you can now buy King's Courts and/or Grand Markets for just . But in a Kingdom where is the most expensive action card (which I think is most Kingdoms), then this is generally just a worse Band of Misfits

I don't think this is strictly worse than BoM (even in kingdoms where the most expensive card is $5). BoM lets you play $4 cards. That's a bad deal ($5 for a $4 card) if it wasn't for the ability to choose which one on the fly. The advantage of BoM is the choice it allows you. Here, it will take longer to get the choices advantage, but it will be from a better pool of cards. Instead of having the power to choose from a bunch of weak $4 and $3 cards, with 3 buys of this you'll have 3 cards that can play (for example) as a wharf, witch or lost city (depending on what you need). Also, as stated above, this works on piles that run out, so this could be used to great effect to get even more than 10 cities (and have the choice advantage to boot). Compare this to BoM board with only 1 village where the BoM can copy the village for a short time before the pile runs out and BoM suddenly isn't as strong as it was.

My worry is the exact opposite. Going for this card might be a necessity, since if your opponent gets all 10, he now has 10 cards that can play as anything on the board. This can be compared to overlord which can do the same thing (in most boards with only 5 or less cost cards), but cost 8 (debt) rather than 6 ($5+1 debt). In addition, winning this split can be much more decisive; if I have only 1 overlord it's just as powerful as each of my opponent's overlords, whereas my 1 student is going to be much less powerful than my opponents 9 students.

A couple of side suggestions:
1) to prevent infinite loops of playing student as a student, you should prevent student playing as a student (or prevent putting a student on your student mat). (As an aside, with a ferry and a BoM you will have an infinite loop. Turning the cards over like necromancer would fix the BoM loop and the Student loop).
2) You should probably say the number of tokens in $ (I can't take 8 debt and put an overlord on my student mat).
3)I would also suggest making the on-buy ability optional, but that's more of a preference thing.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 04:34:21 pm by naitchman »
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2115 on: May 28, 2019, 04:50:55 pm »
0

A couple of side suggestions:
1) to prevent infinite loops of playing student as a student, you should prevent student playing as a student (or prevent putting a student on your student mat). (As an aside, with a ferry and a BoM you will have an infinite loop. Turning the cards over like necromancer would fix the BoM loop and the Student loop).

In addition to solving the infinite loop issue, this would also address GendoIkari's issue as you now wouldn't be able to have the first student "study" KC, and then all later students be $5 KCs, since you would have to turn it over on use. (you could have multiple Students "study" KC, though)

2) You should probably say the number of tokens in $ (I can't take 8 debt and put an overlord on my student mat).

Right, and is solved by the wording suggested by segura.

3)I would also suggest making the on-buy ability optional, but that's more of a preference thing.

Sure, no harm adding a "you may".
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2116 on: May 28, 2019, 04:54:00 pm »
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3)I would also suggest making the on-buy ability optional, but that's more of a preference thing.

You can always choose to take 0 ; in which case you would get a card costing or less on your mat. Why would you ever choose to not do that if it were optional?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2117 on: May 28, 2019, 05:14:35 pm »
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Great feedback all! Here is v0.2:



Note, I decided for now to only turn over the more expensive cards ("graduate courses"?) and see how that looks.

Also based on GendoIkari's followup point, and the fact that it is already wordy, did not add the "you may".

Better?
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2118 on: May 28, 2019, 05:28:29 pm »
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Note, I decided for now to only turn over the more expensive cards ("graduate courses"?) and see how that looks.

Am realizing now that this does not solve the infinite loop issues...

So should it just turn over all cards* or is there a better way to handle that.

(*) one issue with turning over all cards, is that if you buy 2 students and gain a third, playing the third would be useless). While I liked the idea of someone using Ambassador to give you your first useless Student, the counter to that was to just buy one yourself. That counter would now not work. Unless, of course change it to "on gain".
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2119 on: May 28, 2019, 05:37:17 pm »
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Note, I decided for now to only turn over the more expensive cards ("graduate courses"?) and see how that looks.

Am realizing now that this does not solve the infinite loop issues...

So should it just turn over all cards* or is there a better way to handle that.

(*) one issue with turning over all cards, is that if you buy 2 students and gain a third, playing the third would be useless). While I liked the idea of someone using Ambassador to give you your first useless Student, the counter to that was to just buy one yourself. That counter would now not work. Unless, of course change it to "on gain".

Just say "Set aside an Action card other than Student from the supply".
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2120 on: May 28, 2019, 08:04:32 pm »
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Just say "Set aside an Action card other than Student from the supply".

OK, updated that way.

I also changed the turn face down to be until its Student is discarded, so that you couldn't use GendoIkari's idea above with Hireling (buy the first Student, pay , and then effectively buy cheap hirelings for )

Even more wordy now... I wonder if it could work similarly as Prince, instead:
"Play a card from your Student mat, setting it aside again when you discard it from play."

But then we would have the gained students issue, again...
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 08:07:24 pm by scolapasta »
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2121 on: May 28, 2019, 09:35:18 pm »
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Hi, any advice on where I can find art to add to the card? (everyone else always has amazing images added to theirs)

Thanks in advance!
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2122 on: May 28, 2019, 09:37:38 pm »
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Hi, any advice on where I can find art to add to the card? (everyone else always has amazing images added to theirs)

Thanks in advance!

I think a lot of people just find stuff on google images. Not sure though.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2123 on: May 28, 2019, 09:44:23 pm »
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Hi, any advice on where I can find art to add to the card? (everyone else always has amazing images added to theirs)

Thanks in advance!

I think a lot of people just find stuff on google images. Not sure though.

That's where I find mine. I usually just search "[cardname] deviantart," and find something that I like.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2124 on: May 28, 2019, 10:53:00 pm »
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3)I would also suggest making the on-buy ability optional, but that's more of a preference thing.

You can always choose to take 0 ; in which case you would get a card costing or less on your mat. Why would you ever choose to not do that if it were optional?

If you already had all cards that 4 or less on your mat and you don't want to bring the game closer to an ending. (especially true if there's few cards that are 4 or less).
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