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Ozle

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Is there a card you always buy?
« on: March 03, 2012, 08:38:59 am »
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In a non-obvious game, is there a card you always seem to go for?

Obviously for the super-serious players out there who know all the 'best' moves then this question is a bit moot, but for the casual player, is there a kingdom card that makes your eyes light up and its always an early purchase?

Mine is probably Steward, probably wasted so many early silver buys have instead gone on this card when i should have gone for something else, just the one mind.

And the obvious chapel, cant resist it even when is not needed!
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RisingJaguar

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2012, 08:54:39 am »
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To answer the question seriously, almost always you should be buying Hunting parties and Goons.

As for me personally, just checked my popular buys, I tend to overinvest in scheme compared to the norm.  (96% compared to 65%, 3ish gained vs. 1.5ish gained).  Top decking engines is too enticing.
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ecq

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2012, 09:52:03 am »
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I was going to say Hunting Party as well.  There are very very few decks where it doesn't add something.  Getting one early is great for accelerating the game.
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2012, 10:02:35 am »
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I rather rarely get hunting party when wharf is available.
To straight answer the question in the thread's subject: no. There's always some situation you don't want the card.
Oh also, there are no 'super-serious players out there who know all the 'best' moves'. Well, maybe Donald X. or one of his playtesters who don't pop on around here.

Ozle

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2012, 10:31:36 am »
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I rather rarely get hunting party when wharf is available.
To straight answer the question in the thread's subject: no. There's always some situation you don't want the card.
Oh also, there are no 'super-serious players out there who know all the 'best' moves'. Well, maybe Donald X. or one of his playtesters who don't pop on around here.

Think you have taken it a bit too literlly, thats why 'best' is in ' '. I imagine there are quite a few people reading here that are not able to look at a kingdom board and work out whether engine decks, or bmu or whatever is viable. Maybe i should have said advanced players instead of super serious.

Im not talking about the card that you always 'should' buy, just a card you buy more than you usual despite the board (possibly because your mind tells you it will fit)

There are bound to be people reading here
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2012, 10:36:57 am »
+2

I find it hard to pass up Colonies
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jomini

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2012, 10:45:36 am »
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I'll pass on colonies in a lot of goons engines. Chapel/festival/menage/goons can easily give me more points than the entire colony deck on my last turn of a close game; in that case I'm FAR more worried that I get the last turn and pile out than spending cash on a colony. Likewise, I find there are a good number of Jack boards where you can pile out the provinces before the opponent gets to their 3rd colony; particularly in multiplayer with attacks. Even something like tournament will give me pause before running into colonies.

I'm positive that even Donald and his playtesters don't know all the "best" arcane combos. He told us that they never saw any of the Masq pins in playtesting and there are times where that just is the best combo on the board.
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DG

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 10:48:11 am »
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Caravans are highly purchased card. In many kingdoms you get 4 to spend and a caravan seems to offer more benefit than another silver or overloading on cheap terminal cards. It probably doesn't break your deck.
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meshuggah42

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2012, 11:16:54 am »
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When Minion is available, I always buy it. :)
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brokoli

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2012, 11:26:10 am »
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I almost always buy fishing village and Island.
I think Minion is strongly overrated... if you don't use the attack part, Minion is basically +1 action, +2$... which is not very good.
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jomini

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2012, 11:41:49 am »
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I'll pass on caravans if I'm doing heavy dead draw (e.g. BM-envoy), if I don't have a lot of 4's and I need my early one for something else (e.g. baron -> forge), or if I'm playing something like menage/library/watchtower/jack where that +card is of marginal value or detrimental. Particularly if there is something else out there I actually need (like a bishop) or that does more for me without losing tempo (like cutpurse), I'll pass on caravan. Not to mention chapel decks where I get to do some power opening like festival/chapel/menage and I simply never purchase anything that costs 4.

Minion is extremely powerful as it allows you to cycle like mad, can be turned into a psuedo village with golem or TR, and is self contained disappearing cash for library/menage/watchtower. However, there are boards where I will skip it. KC/Bridge/quarry comes to mind. Likewise, I may go gardens if I have two opponents open minion off of 5/2s to my 4/3 with workshop/garden. While I will go minion/tunnel there are times where I never get around to buying the minion because the other guy has done all the work for me.



Island is terrible if your opponent goes possession; losing a key card (like your own possession, a golem, etc.) makes it a no go on some fast possession boards. Fishing village can compete with better engine components. For instance with chapel, festival and menage a festival/chap opening allows me to get rolling quickly and with some luck I will always perfer another menage to a fishing village or have the cash for the superior festival (which I can play every turn in a strong menage deck rather than every other turn).

There really is no card that is an auto-buy.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 11:45:56 am by jomini »
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Catalytic

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2012, 01:01:22 pm »
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I can't help myself when I see Governor.  Or Minion.  Or Lab.  I am a sucker for  cards that easily chain together apparently.
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2012, 01:28:36 pm »
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Silver. I always buy at least one silver. :)
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Titandrake

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2012, 01:38:34 pm »
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Tournament. Almost always a Prize you want. Off the top of my head, the only situation you don't want it in is a Gardens/Silk Road rush.
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brokoli

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2012, 02:42:07 pm »
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Tournament. Almost always a Prize you want. Off the top of my head, the only situation you don't want it in is a Gardens/Silk Road rush.

Tournament is a waste of time if :
- You have a big deck (IGG, silver-gainers, ...) and you're unlikely to draw your tournament and your province the same turn.
- There is already a curser so followers are not so interesting, and you don't really need the other prizes.
- You prepare a mega-turn (KC-Bridge...)
- It's a very fast game
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2012, 03:15:59 pm »
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I can't help myself when I see Governor.  Or Minion.  Or Lab.  I am a sucker for  cards that easily chain together apparently.

I went through a lab phase, but i think im over it now and it seems to be way down my list
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2012, 03:21:45 pm »
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People on the thread who are pointing out scenarios where the cards people name are not must buy, obviously im still not explaining properly.

Its about cards that you always find yourself buying, even if they are nowhere near the optimal move.

If you're one of the people that don't have an intrinsic 'favourite' like that, and im sure thats lots of people here, thats cool. But clearly from examples given here, some people do.

Does that mean if some ne has a perchant for buying Highway they are not going to be an efficient dominion player, sure, but it doesnt really matter to a lot of people.
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Asklepios

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2012, 03:28:59 pm »
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Silver. I always buy at least one silver. :)

Not me. Not if Fishing Village is there, or Remake, or if I get 5/2 and Scheme is there.

I almost always buy Silver, but sometimes you get the chance to go straight to gold.

Also, I'll not always take Tournament, will quite often pass up Minion (say if there's a Mountebank or Witch there), and Laboratories will often leave behind.

Cards I can almost never resist: Governor, Vineyard, Mountbank, Witch.

Cards I'll pretty much ALWAYS take when available: Colonies,
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2012, 04:15:08 pm »
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I'll almost always get Masquerade if it's available, except in obvious situations (Hunting Party, Gardens, etc.). In particular, if Jack and Masq are both there, I'll prefer the Masq because it's more fun, even though the cards are of similar strength.
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RisingJaguar

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2012, 04:21:23 pm »
+1

Probably not perfectly for this thread, but for all the talk of scout being the worst card (easily top 5) in all of dominion, I gain scout 63.4% of the time.  I suck with it too (both negative effects with/without).  Maybe I should stop buying it... it just seems so harmless...
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Ozle

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2012, 04:36:17 pm »
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Probably not perfectly for this thread, but for all the talk of scout being the worst card (easily top 5) in all of dominion, I gain scout 63.4% of the time.  I suck with it too (both negative effects with/without).  Maybe I should stop buying it... it just seems so harmless...

Perfect for this thread! Heh

What do you think, the +1 Card/Action draws you in?
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2012, 04:53:31 pm »
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I almost always buy fishing village and Island.
I think Minion is strongly overrated... if you don't use the attack part, Minion is basically +1 action, +2$... which is not very good.

But why wouldn't you use the attack part?  I've never seen Minion as an engine component because it's an engine all by itself. So rarely will I pick up one Minion. Usually I will drive the Minion pile and play a Minion deck. There aren't many cards that I consider to be so self-sufficient.

(Although, it would team up nicely with Library since it cuts down handsize and doesn't replace itself if you use it for money.)
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2012, 05:59:06 pm »
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Unless there's possession, I always buy masquerade. 
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2012, 11:10:10 pm »
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I think Swindler qualifies considering I've played 94 games with it and not bought it twice. I just enjoy the swinginess, at least on that card.
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2012, 01:28:59 am »
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Probably not perfectly for this thread, but for all the talk of scout being the worst card (easily top 5) in all of dominion, I gain scout 63.4% of the time.  I suck with it too (both negative effects with/without).  Maybe I should stop buying it... it just seems so harmless...

This blows my mind Jaguar, I'm impressed :) I'm at a more conservative 7%, myself!
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2012, 02:39:43 am »
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I always buy Fishing Village, then sometimes realize there's no a single nonterminal in the kingdom.
I've gotten screwed many times trying to pursue Apothecary strategies. I just love that card for some reason.
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RisingJaguar

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2012, 08:47:48 am »
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Probably not perfectly for this thread, but for all the talk of scout being the worst card (easily top 5) in all of dominion, I gain scout 63.4% of the time.  I suck with it too (both negative effects with/without).  Maybe I should stop buying it... it just seems so harmless...

This blows my mind Jaguar, I'm impressed :) I'm at a more conservative 7%, myself!
In my early days of playing (I never used this site), I figured out that terminals can clog your deck, blah blah blah.  That day onwards, anything with +action was golden looking, it can't collide.  Pearl Diver, scout, and spy all look like good cards. 

Fun times.
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2012, 09:41:55 am »
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mountebank, mabye fishing village
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2012, 09:46:13 am »
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Probably not perfectly for this thread, but for all the talk of scout being the worst card (easily top 5) in all of dominion, I gain scout 63.4% of the time.  I suck with it too (both negative effects with/without).  Maybe I should stop buying it... it just seems so harmless...

This blows my mind Jaguar, I'm impressed :) I'm at a more conservative 7%, myself!
In my early days of playing (I never used this site), I figured out that terminals can clog your deck, blah blah blah.  That day onwards, anything with +action was golden looking, it can't collide.  Pearl Diver, scout, and spy all look like good cards. 

Fun times.

Agreed, i went through 'more cards are better' approach, then not able to play them all so bought too many +actions, then went through realising money was being underrated. No idea where i am now though!
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2012, 09:55:56 am »
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Menagerie. I love menagerie and always desperately look for ways to enable it. Grand Market too, though the love's started to fade now that I've been on the wrong end of a GM advantage a couple of times. Man, that sucks.
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2012, 10:00:03 am »
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Oh, yeah - I forgot Scrying Pool and Apothecary. I really like the more intricate non-terminals, it seems. (Stables and Tournament come to mind as well...)
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2012, 10:22:44 am »
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Festival is a nice card I nearly always want to have.
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2012, 10:38:13 am »
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I buy Fishing Village, Tournament, and Hunting Party over 95 percent of the time, so those are probably all cards I could stand to buy a little less often.  But not that much less!

The next two- Ambassador and Goons- absolutely deserve the insane 94.x buy rates I give them.  They are very likely the two strongest cards in the 2p game, after all.

There are five other cards I pick up in over 90 percent of games- Remake, Border Village, Menagerie, Mountebank, and Hamlet.  I suspect Menagerie and Mountebank deserve that level of purchase, the other three probably not quite.

That's half of my top 10 ALL FROM CORNUCOPIA for those keeping score at home.  God I love that expansion.
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brokoli

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2012, 11:35:32 am »
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That's half of my top 10 ALL FROM CORNUCOPIA for those keeping score at home.  God I love that expansion.

My favorite too, but I tend to buy menagerie or remake much more often than I should…
Looking the "% +" column in my councilroom page, the results are :

1 - Island (98,3)
2 - Fishing village (98,0)
3 - Grand market (94,2  ::) )
4 - Caravan (93,5)
5 - Tournament (93,0)
6 - Silver  :o (92,1)

After come Farming village (!), City (!), Goons, Tactician, Hamlet, Border village…
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2012, 01:15:28 pm »
0

Goons, Goons, Goons!
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2012, 01:29:00 pm »
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I'm surprised no one put more cursing attacks besides mountebank. If there was a sea hag out, I'd take it.
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2012, 02:42:43 pm »
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For me, Cursing attacks cease to be a must have if Masquerade or Ambassador are on board, in which case I'll open with two of those and hope to be cursed.

As for Goons, if theres no + multiple action, Hunting Parties and another terminal I want more, I'll sometimes let them be. Sometimes.
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2012, 02:43:16 pm »
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In my early days of playing (I never used this site), I figured out that terminals can clog your deck, blah blah blah.  That day onwards, anything with +action was golden looking, it can't collide.  Pearl Diver, scout, and spy all look like good cards. 

Fun times.

I always wonder how much my stats are skewed by my early games. There are cards which I know I currently buy very little but which show up as higher percentages due to my early career games. I do have an alt, but I don't play it quite seriously so those stats arent really accurate either, but they might be better.
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2012, 02:45:40 pm »
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I buy king's court and chapel more than I buy silver. In fact, I can rarely see a point in not buying chapel. I'm not as enthusiastic about chapel as I used to be and there are certainly situations where I won't buy it but those situations are rarer than you would think. I've learned to see chapel as an enabler for other strategies rather than a strategy in of itself and there's usually something out there that benefits from chapel.
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2012, 04:27:30 pm »
+1

In my early days of playing (I never used this site), I figured out that terminals can clog your deck, blah blah blah.  That day onwards, anything with +action was golden looking, it can't collide.  Pearl Diver, scout, and spy all look like good cards. 

Fun times.

I always wonder how much my stats are skewed by my early games. There are cards which I know I currently buy very little but which show up as higher percentages due to my early career games. I do have an alt, but I don't play it quite seriously so those stats arent really accurate either, but they might be better.
Yeah it would be nice if there was like a... Last 30 days sorter? or something of that nature because I have definitely changed (ie. I don't buy scout 60% of the time... thank you forums). 
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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2012, 05:35:10 pm »
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Familiar. Looks so cheap for such awesomeness.
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Asklepios

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Re: Is there a card you always buy?
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2012, 03:44:36 am »
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I buy king's court and chapel more than I buy silver. In fact, I can rarely see a point in not buying chapel. I'm not as enthusiastic about chapel as I used to be and there are certainly situations where I won't buy it but those situations are rarer than you would think. I've learned to see chapel as an enabler for other strategies rather than a strategy in of itself and there's usually something out there that benefits from chapel.

King's Court to me can often seem a trap when you're at $8+. The way I see it, there has to be a card that is worth playing three times that is likely to collide with King's Court, and that has to be worth delaying a Province for.

For example, on a Mountebank board, I'd often spend that $8 on Province instead. Sure, King's Court-Mountebank is powerful, but more likely the two cards will miss each other in an increasingly diluted deck, and there's a good chance only one to three Provinces will be bought the whole game, so I can't risk passing up the Province.

As another example, there might be a province board with lots of strong non terminal drawing (Stables, Laboratory, etc.), but with no strong terminals and with no +buy. On that board, King's Court is kind of a waste, as at best its going to enable $8+ later. Gold will give as much chance of hitting $8, and a Province whenever possible is going to be best. In that circumstance I might not pick up a single King's Court.

As for Chapel, I probably leave it behind more than most, as I'm a big user of Big Money + 2 terminal draw strategies, which tend to be slowed by Chapels. Also I tend to like Mint as a fast trasher in some decks, as unlike Chapel it stays useful in the mid to late game. In other words, if the dominant strategy looks to be money based rather than engine based, I'll pass on Chapel.

Not to say both Chapel and King's Court aren't strong cards, but I think to say that they're ALWAYS worth taking is untrue.

Familiar. Looks so cheap for such awesomeness.

Now this one is far from a must have. The problem here is Potion. Potion can mess up so many hands that might otherwise have been strong.

As a rule of thumb, if there's another curser on table, i'll ignore Familiar. I'd rather climb for $5 and get Mountebank or Witch, or pass up the potion and get a Sea Hag.


Re: suggestions in general, I think you'd have to ask yourself another question: If this card had been Embargoed, would I still pick it up?

Or for something like Familiar, if the potion gets embargoed, would you still buy the potion to go for Familiar?

If the answer is no, then you wouldn't be buying this card every time its available
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