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[Cave-o-sapien]

I have no idea if this is possible, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone wants to try:

The goal is to reorder a kingdom pile, such as interleaving a split pile, or sorting the Knights alphabetically, then return the game to its initial state (aside from that pile).

If it's not possible, how close can you get?

[Awaclus]

As a starting point, you can use one Ambassador and one Lighthouse and just buy all the cards from the pile and return them in any order you want. If necessary, you can even buy other cards to get enough money for the cards in the pile if they're expensive, and then return those cards as well. Then you'll just have an Amb and a Lighthouse in players' decks instead of being in the supply but otherwise it's the initial state.

[J Reggie]

Overlords/BoMs as Lighthouse and Ambassador, then as Encampment to return them to the supply.

[Cave-o-sapien]

Overlords/BoMs as Lighthouse and Ambassador, then as Encampment to return them to the supply.

Nice! A mere 58 turns later and I've alphabetized the Knights pile.

[LaLight]

Overlords/BoMs as Lighthouse and Ambassador, then as Encampment to return them to the supply.

Nice! A mere 58 turns later and I've alphabetized the Knights pile.

51 turns to rearrange Castles Pile from most expensive to the cheapest

[infangthief]

Overlords/BoMs as Lighthouse and Ambassador, then as Encampment to return them to the supply.

So this allows almost any supply pile to be reordered arbitrarily, with one exception: You can't reorder the Encampment/Plunder pile in such a way that a Plunder ends up on top, because then you can't play the Overlords/BoMs as Encampments to return them at the end.

Is there another way to return the Overlords/BoMs?

[infangthief]

I have no idea if this is possible, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone wants to try:

The goal is to reorder a kingdom pile, such as interleaving a split pile, or sorting the Knights alphabetically, then return the game to its initial state (aside from that pile).

If it's not possible, how close can you get?

I don't think you can reorder the Castles pile and get back to the initial game state - there's no way of returning the +1VP you get from gaining Crumbling Castle.
[EDIT: Actually maybe it is possible... if Crumbling Castle is gained on a Possessed turn then no-one gets the +1VP token, right?].

[majiponi]

I have no idea if this is possible, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone wants to try:

The goal is to reorder a kingdom pile, such as interleaving a split pile, or sorting the Knights alphabetically, then return the game to its initial state (aside from that pile).

If it's not possible, how close can you get?

I don't think you can reorder the Castles pile and get back to the initial game state - there's no way of returning the +1VP you get from gaining Crumbling Castle.
[EDIT: Actually maybe it is possible... if Crumbling Castle is gained on a Possessed turn then no-one gets the +1VP token, right?].

No, Possessor gains, and she takes 1vp.

[infangthief]

I have no idea if this is possible, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone wants to try:

The goal is to reorder a kingdom pile, such as interleaving a split pile, or sorting the Knights alphabetically, then return the game to its initial state (aside from that pile).

If it's not possible, how close can you get?

I don't think you can reorder the Castles pile and get back to the initial game state - there's no way of returning the +1VP you get from gaining Crumbling Castle.
[EDIT: Actually maybe it is possible... if Crumbling Castle is gained on a Possessed turn then no-one gets the +1VP token, right?].

No, Possessor gains, and she takes 1vp.

Ah, ok, yes I suppose that makes sense. I was just going with the FAQ "You do not get any other tokens [other than debt] that player would have gotten". But of course the Possessor gets the VP token as a result of gaining Crumbling Castle.

So in conclusion, the original challenge can be done for any kingdom pile other than Castles and Encampment/Plunder.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

If the goal (this is totally something to do for a practical purpose, right?) is to play a game with the castle pile in a particular order, you could just have Player 2 play their Overlord as a Monument a few times to even out the point totals, then it's essentially the same even if not technically the starting state.

[crj]

Nice! A mere 58 turns later and I've alphabetized the Knights pile.

Given you can take multiple Overlords and/or BoMs, and get them all back into the supply once you're done, is that really the smallest possible number of turns? Given perfect shuffle luck, etc.

[Cave-o-sapien]

Nice! A mere 58 turns later and I've alphabetized the Knights pile.

Given you can take multiple Overlords and/or BoMs, and get them all back into the supply once you're done, is that really the smallest possible number of turns? Given perfect shuffle luck, etc.

Oh, I'm sure it can be done in many fewer turns. That was just my first attempt.

[infangthief]

So in conclusion, the original challenge can be done for any kingdom pile other than Castles and Encampment/Plunder.

Necro!

With Battle Plan we can now arbitrarily reorder the Castles pile and return the rest of the game to the initial state.
Instead of gaining Crumbling Castle (which would give us an irreversible VP), you just rotate it to the bottom, gain and return all the other Castles so they're in the desired order relative to Crumbling Castle, then rotate the pile again as required.

Fortunately there is only one copy of Crumbling Castle even in multiplayer.

[infangthief]

Also, can Captain be used to get up to 2 Plunders on top of the Encampment/Plunder pile (while returning everything else to start of game state)?

Have the Plunders 3rd and 4th in your deck. Play Captain, using it to play Encampment, so you return the Captain to the Supply at the end of this turn (I think?). Then next turn use it to play Ambassador to return your Plunders. Problem is how to prevent the other player(s) from gaining Plunder...

No, wait, better idea. We can get any number of Plunders on top. Battle Plan makes it work:

Play Captain, using it to play Encampment, so you return the Captain to the Supply at the end of this turn. Then next turn use it to play Battle Plan to rotate the Encampment(s) and leave Plunders on top.

Does that work?

[infangthief]

Hmm, maybe this doesn't work actually.

Reading a post about Captain playing Encampment it seems that the Captain does not get returned to the Supply.

And according to the 2019 errata none of Overlord, Band of Misfits and Captain can return themselves by emulating Encampment.

I suppose this thread was before the 2019 errata. Have those errata broken all our fun?

[faust]

Hmm, maybe this doesn't work actually.

Reading a post about Captain playing Encampment it seems that the Captain does not get returned to the Supply.

And according to the 2019 errata none of Overlord, Band of Misfits and Captain can return themselves by emulating Encampment.

I suppose this thread was before the 2019 errata. Have those errata broken all our fun?

But we can use Way of the Horse to return any action card to the supply, right?

[vidicate]

Hmm, maybe this doesn't work actually.

Reading a post about Captain playing Encampment it seems that the Captain does not get returned to the Supply.

And according to the 2019 errata none of Overlord, Band of Misfits and Captain can return themselves by emulating Encampment.

I suppose this thread was before the 2019 errata. Have those errata broken all our fun?

But we can use Way of the Horse to return any action card to the supply, right?

Sure. And Ambassador any non-Action, then WotH the Amb. In many ways, simpler than pre-2019.

[Joxeft]

With Battle Plan we can now arbitrarily reorder the Castles pile and return the rest of the game to the initial state.
Instead of gaining Crumbling Castle (which would give us an irreversible VP), you just rotate it to the bottom, gain and return all the other Castles so they're in the desired order relative to Crumbling Castle, then rotate the pile again as required.

Fortunately there is only one copy of Crumbling Castle even in multiplayer.

We don't even need to use Battle Plan. We can simply use Transport.

[vidicate]

With Battle Plan we can now arbitrarily reorder the Castles pile and return the rest of the game to the initial state.
Instead of gaining Crumbling Castle (which would give us an irreversible VP), you just rotate it to the bottom, gain and return all the other Castles so they're in the desired order relative to Crumbling Castle, then rotate the pile again as required.

Fortunately there is only one copy of Crumbling Castle even in multiplayer.

We don't even need to use Battle Plan. We can simply use Transport.

Except Transport only Exiles Actions.