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[mcmcsalot]

I don’t see how outing the other lover is bad.

The only reason keeping the second a secret is the try to protect robz from getting night killed and if we put the second there is a 50/50 chance we protect one of the lover. But if the other lover doesn’t claim we have no clue if robz is telling the truth.

If the other lover does claim we have reason to use protection on the lovers and we can trust they are town or robz’s scum partner backing him up

Don't like this.

If we believe faust is town with a protective role, which i am leaning towards, he also claimed to take no action last night. Which suggests thefe is some drawback or something we are not aware of. Never mind the fact that scum certainly have some method to override protection. Let's try not to take the protection too much for granted.

You are making my point for me. Likely Faust protection is limited in some way, right now the only argument for not outing be other lover is because then it makes it harder for Faust to protect the lover and prevent scum from getting a double kill. I keep arguing that it is worse to have Faust trying to protect an unconfirmed robz then trying to protect one of two lovers.

[faust]

I don’t see how outing the other lover is bad.

The only reason keeping the second a secret is the try to protect robz from getting night killed and if we put the second there is a 50/50 chance we protect one of the lover. But if the other lover doesn’t claim we have no clue if robz is telling the truth.

If the other lover does claim we have reason to use protection on the lovers and we can trust they are town or robz’s scum partner backing him up

Don't like this.

If we believe faust is town with a protective role, which i am leaning towards, he also claimed to take no action last night. Which suggests thefe is some drawback or something we are not aware of. Never mind the fact that scum certainly have some method to override protection. Let's try not to take the protection too much for granted.

You are making my point for me. Likely Faust protection is limited in some way, right now the only argument for not outing be other lover is because then it makes it harder for Faust to protect the lover and prevent scum from getting a double kill. I keep arguing that it is worse to have Faust trying to protect an unconfirmed robz then trying to protect one of two lovers.

Maybe you should take advice from the guy who actually knows what kind of protective role faust has in this then...

[mcmcsalot]

Okay but seriously someone explain to me all of the reasons for robz’s lover to not claim. Because unless they are good it is ridiculous for us to let this go.

[faust]

Okay but seriously someone explain to me all of the reasons for robz’s lover to not claim. Because unless they are good it is ridiculous for us to let this go.

If we are not planning on lynching Robz, then outing his lover accomplishes nothing. Looking at the vote count, I don't see that Robz is in great danger of being lynched.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay but seriously someone explain to me all of the reasons for robz’s lover to not claim. Because unless they are good it is ridiculous for us to let this go.

If we are not planning on lynching Robz, then outing his lover accomplishes nothing. Looking at the vote count, I don't see that Robz is in great danger of being lynched.

Ugh this is what I keep getting and is not an answer if we say robz has to put his lover and no lover claims then boom we are lynching robz. So don’t use the “if we aren’t lynching” as an argument. Answer why robz lover should claim all of the reasons.

It appears to me the ONLY one is your ability to protect an robz is higher than your ability to protect robz + lover. And that you are willing to risk the fact that currently robz is confirmed to scum but unconfirmed to town and that if he is a lover scum has a very small pool of potential lover partners to shoot at.

[mcmcsalot]

Here is most of what has happened since the claim.

Robz wagoners: pps, efhw, idp, mcmc, lalight

PPS: moves to faust, pps agrees with my points about robz. PPS states no lover claim is indicative of robz lying.
Lalight: unvotes, moves to pps, lalight also argues about the sillyness of a robz flavor claim, moves to vote faust. moves to idontplay mainly because of his lurking.
efhw: unvotes (hopefully to make more in-game players to be on wagon) it's good to have her thoughts I would love her to vote robz and unvote if she still finds him scumy, vote me and invote if she thinks I am wrong, and for the most part probably stay off wagons unless town needs her and she supports the wagon.
Idp: has not posted since


Non-wagoners: Faust, Gkrieg, Galz, Haddock, Hydrad

Faust: still pushing idp, never liked robz wagon, swithces to pps, moves to idp in support of haddock
Gkrieg: botes idptg says he doesn't want to lynch robz today. Gkrieg changes to haddock. Wants to know whats scummy about pps
galz: votes pps in support of faust
Haddock: says my case on robz is from early day one (the beggining part is, it was updated at the end of day 1 when I thought he was still scummy and has been further updated as he has done nothing to convince me slightly of his towniness). Votes IDP.
Hydrad: says he didnt belive robz at first but the reaction afterwards leans him town. (I would be curious of why)

So where we are at it appears, myself, pps, and possibly lalight still all feel like robz lover should claim. Idp and efhw I am not sure about.

Faust/haddock/gkrieg are against robz lover claiming.

I would love to know galz’s opinion of the whole thing and would love hydrad to clarify a bit why he finds robz reaction towny because all I see is him giving us information that doesn’t help scum whatsoever ever (if his lover knows of him, that his lover and him have a qt) in bits and pieces only after being pressured when town!robz would intelligently know those things don’t help scum and would have stated them with his initial claim.

[faust]

Okay but seriously someone explain to me all of the reasons for robz’s lover to not claim. Because unless they are good it is ridiculous for us to let this go.

If we are not planning on lynching Robz, then outing his lover accomplishes nothing. Looking at the vote count, I don't see that Robz is in great danger of being lynched.

Ugh this is what I keep getting and is not an answer if we say robz has to put his lover and no lover claims then boom we are lynching robz. So don’t use the “if we aren’t lynching” as an argument. Answer why robz lover should claim all of the reasons.

It appears to me the ONLY one is your ability to protect an robz is higher than your ability to protect robz + lover. And that you are willing to risk the fact that currently robz is confirmed to scum but unconfirmed to town and that if he is a lover scum has a very small pool of potential lover partners to shoot at.

Ugh that was hard to parse. Maybe use some more punctuation.

Basically I think this comes down to I already believe Robz is town. I don't think the scenario you paint where noone claims lover is likely. I think Robz and his lover have the most information available to them and if they think it is best not to reveal the other one then that is good enough for me.

[faust]

mcmc, who besides Robz is scum in your opinion?

[Galzria]

Mcmc, I've obviously posted since Robz claimed, yes? If I had any desire to force his lover to claim, I would've said so/voted him already. My silence should be indicative of my acceptance of his claim, which, for now is itself a good enough reason for Robz' lover not to claim. You act as if there isn't yet another person a protective PR might be choosing to protect at night (me). Outing the lover gives scum three targets to choose from, not two.

[mcmcsalot]

Cool you can’t give a reason robz’s lover shouldn’t claim other than you find robz townie.

I have more town reads then I do scum reads at this point. A lot of my reads are currently wrapped around he fact that I am very confident robz is scum.

[Galzria]

Cool you can’t give a reason robz’s lover shouldn’t claim other than you find robz townie.

I have more town reads then I do scum reads at this point. A lot of my reads are currently wrapped around he fact that I am very confident robz is scum.

Incorrect.

[mcmcsalot]

Mcmc, I've obviously posted since Robz claimed, yes? If I had any desire to force his lover to claim, I would've said so/voted him already. My silence should be indicative of my acceptance of his claim, which, for now is itself a good enough reason for Robz' lover not to claim. You act as if there isn't yet another person a protective PR might be choosing to protect at night (me). Outing the lover gives scum three targets to choose from, not two.

I’m aware you posted, I included you in my recap of stuff people had been saying. Sorry I was curious about your thoughts on robz specifically...

[mcmcsalot]

Cool you can’t give a reason robz’s lover shouldn’t claim other than you find robz townie.

I have more town reads then I do scum reads at this point. A lot of my reads are currently wrapped around he fact that I am very confident robz is scum.

Incorrect.

I keep asking for the reason and Faust keeps saying it’s because he finds robz townie which isn’t what I’m asking. I’m asking why a second lover claiming is bad taking into account the info it gives us and the protection scenarios/lover likelihood I keep mentioning.

[Galzria]

Mcmc, I've obviously posted since Robz claimed, yes? If I had any desire to force his lover to claim, I would've said so/voted him already. My silence should be indicative of my acceptance of his claim, which, for now is itself a good enough reason for Robz' lover not to claim. You act as if there isn't yet another person a protective PR might be choosing to protect at night (me). Outing the lover gives scum three targets to choose from, not two.

I’m aware you posted, I included you in my recap of stuff people had been saying. Sorry I was curious about your thoughts on robz specifically...

Sorry, I assumed that the below was directed at me:

Cool you can’t give a reason robz’s lover shouldn’t claim other than you find robz townie.

I have more town reads then I do scum reads at this point. A lot of my reads are currently wrapped around he fact that I am very confident robz is scum.

If it was directed at faust, then nevermind my comment.

[faust]

Cool you can’t give a reason robz’s lover shouldn’t claim other than you find robz townie.

I have more town reads then I do scum reads at this point. A lot of my reads are currently wrapped around he fact that I am very confident robz is scum.

Incorrect.

I keep asking for the reason and Faust keeps saying it’s because he finds robz townie which isn’t what I’m asking. I’m asking why a second lover claiming is bad taking into account the info it gives us and the protection scenarios/lover likelihood I keep mentioning.

Because it makes more town death more likely. It's that simple. Robz and his lover know more about how bad it is to claim because they know their roles. I know more about how bad it is for them to claim because I know my (protective) PR. This is all I am going to spell out for you.

[mcmcsalot]

Oh I see, your post did come inbetween. My apologies for the confusion I should have quoted, it was directed at Faust.

Directed at galz, I see you are currently alone voting for pps. Faust and you went there but when haddock expressed interest in idp instead Faust quickly jumped here and was followed by lalight. I think this idp wagon is based solely on lurking which isn’t good, hydrad is on that wagon from long ago. What is your pps case and would you still want to lynch Faust? I definitely find him scummy.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote count 2.mcmc

Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, McMcsalot
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Hydrad, Haddock, Faust, lalight
gkrieg13 (1): Robz888
faust (1): pingpongsam
Haddock (1): gkrieg13
pingpongsam (1): Galzria

not voting (1): EFHW

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, July 16, 2018, 10:30:00 am

[mcmcsalot]

Okay so I know I’m sort of beating an at least bloody and maimed horse at this point but it’s still irking me.

10 players alive. Assume 7 town, 3 scum

Lovers lynch, nk = 4 town, 3 scum. Mylo

Mislynch, nk = 5 town, 3 scum. Mylo

Also as galz pointed out he is a role that potentially needs protecting and if we lynch potential lover robz that clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

I still really strongly believe forcing robz lover to claim is the best thing to do.

[faust]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

[mcmcsalot]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

But I find robz scummy and he has an unconfirmed claim that came out at l-1 and has since had pieces added on which could have been included in the original claim. I find galz townie and he made an unprovoked, uncountered claim of the main character in he game with some specifications that make sense with he character. They are two very different things, as is protecting a random person. So no it’s not a nonsense argument as much as you want to claim that I’m stupid instead of actually countering my arguments.

[pingpongsam]

I am very much in the exactly same line of thinking as mcmc. However, faust's level headed responses to his (as opposed to either ignoring or being outright inflammatory towards mine) questions has lessened my scum reads. The key failing of mine and mcmc's thinking is that it presumes Robz to be scum.

[faust]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

But I find robz scummy and he has an unconfirmed claim that came out at l-1 and has since had pieces added on which could have been included in the original claim. I find galz townie and he made an unprovoked, uncountered claim of the main character in he game with some specifications that make sense with he character. They are two very different things, as is protecting a random person. So no it’s not a nonsense argument as much as you want to claim that I’m stupid instead of actually countering my arguments.

Actually Galzria's claim was provoked by you.

I am not saying that all your arguments are bad. But this one will not convince anyone to lynch Robz who wasn't already on board.

[mcmcsalot]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

But I find robz scummy and he has an unconfirmed claim that came out at l-1 and has since had pieces added on which could have been included in the original claim. I find galz townie and he made an unprovoked, uncountered claim of the main character in he game with some specifications that make sense with he character. They are two very different things, as is protecting a random person. So no it’s not a nonsense argument as much as you want to claim that I’m stupid instead of actually countering my arguments.

Actually Galzria's claim was provoked by you.

I am not saying that all your arguments are bad. But this one will not convince anyone to lynch Robz who wasn't already on board.

Does my argument that we are in mylo if we mislynch lovers or someone else persuade you?

[mcmcsalot]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

But I find robz scummy and he has an unconfirmed claim that came out at l-1 and has since had pieces added on which could have been included in the original claim. I find galz townie and he made an unprovoked, uncountered claim of the main character in he game with some specifications that make sense with he character. They are two very different things, as is protecting a random person. So no it’s not a nonsense argument as much as you want to claim that I’m stupid instead of actually countering my arguments.

Actually Galzria's claim was provoked by you.

I am not saying that all your arguments are bad. But this one will not convince anyone to lynch Robz who wasn't already on board.

Does my argument that we are in mylo if we mislynch lovers or someone else persuade you?

I mean it’s not going to push ads you because you think robz is town and that’s fine. But anyone on he fence about the robz claim and not wanting to lynch him because killing two towns is dangerous should be aware that we are in he same boat tomorrow at 5/3 or 4/3.

So I think forcing robz lover to claim even if that kills him in him and his lover in the night is worth it to see if robz is lying and no lover claims. Because if we lose two town or three by tomorrow it’s the same situation.

[faust]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

But I find robz scummy and he has an unconfirmed claim that came out at l-1 and has since had pieces added on which could have been included in the original claim. I find galz townie and he made an unprovoked, uncountered claim of the main character in he game with some specifications that make sense with he character. They are two very different things, as is protecting a random person. So no it’s not a nonsense argument as much as you want to claim that I’m stupid instead of actually countering my arguments.

Actually Galzria's claim was provoked by you.

I am not saying that all your arguments are bad. But this one will not convince anyone to lynch Robz who wasn't already on board.

Does my argument that we are in mylo if we mislynch lovers or someone else persuade you?

That is certainly something to keep in mind.