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[gkrieg13]

Well the accusations have been particularly ridiculous this game. I'm not sure how else to respond to conspiracy theories. The fact of the matter is that I don't plan out my every move and hope to achieve some incredible far-fetched things. That's an ashersky trait.

What we see instead is me getting frustrated with the game, and thus trying to shake things up. You know, get some people to participate some more. I wouldn't have much reason to do so as scum, since obviously that leads to lazy people who can't be bothered to scumhunt to go "oh faust is different let's lynch him because different always means scum herp derp".

I think you would still try to get people to participate if you were scum, because that is just something that you do.  Even as scum, you find the game more fun when people are participating.

[gkrieg13]

And hey I can answer that for you! The answer is that you already thought I was scummy and simply chose to believe the version that better fits your bias. Or, of course, you're scum.

Well, maybe it's so as I said in my previous post. I am really scared of scum!you and I think you are scum this game, this is bugging me from D1 that something is off. Thing is, I can never convince anyone about scum!strong!player because I simply can't explain why i feel them scummy for the most time I feel so so at some point I just drop it

This post sounds solidly like town!LaLight.

[gkrieg13]

Here is another thing to think about: DatSwan flipped flavor cop. Now if flavor implied alignment that would be a very strong role by itself, and stronger still since he had other stuff added on top of it. Which kind of makes me think that flavor does not indicate alignment in this game.

Counterpoint: I think this is wrong, and also, this thinking is more likely to come from scum.

Why is it more likely to come from scum?  I also don't think flavor is indicative of alignment in this game.

[gkrieg13]

Here is another thing to think about: DatSwan flipped flavor cop. Now if flavor implied alignment that would be a very strong role by itself, and stronger still since he had other stuff added on top of it. Which kind of makes me think that flavor does not indicate alignment in this game.

Counterpoint: I think this is wrong, and also, this thinking is more likely to come from scum.

Actually, I got that wrong. I think faust is mistaken about this, but the sentiment is not more likely to come from scum.

Sorry, the problem with reading and commenting as I go.  Disregard part of the above post.

[gkrieg13]

The only reason I am not voting faust is precisely because I think he wants us to.

I really don't think there is any role where this is true.

[gkrieg13]

I want gkrieg, PPS and Haddock to explain their reasoning for voting/being willing to vote EFHW post-claim.

The answer to this is so obvious that this just feels like faust throwing shade.
If Efhw was lying then she was scum and needed lynching.
If she was telling the truth then her lynch seemed better to me than robz's, who was the only other option.
Note that I even went as far as to ask other people whether they agreed with this obvious reasoning.

I think that anyone who claimed yesterday should now say what they did last night. Or present a good reason why they shouldn't, since none occurs to me.

This reads scummy to me.  There are obvious reasons why people who claimed vague stuff D1 would not want to clarify.

[gkrieg13]

Note that EFHW and datswan were different flavors. One was a good aligned human, and the other good aligned beast.

Further, I'm now certain that scum fall under the "Demon" Flavor - which then gives datswan's role a new look. He could tell if a player was a Beast/Human/Demon (are there others?).

I think we should mass claim character flavor (Race). SJ is obviously human.

(Yes, I'm aware scum probably have fakeclaims, but we may be able to gain insight from a full flavor (race) claim, without giving anything away in terms of who is what character and has what PR)

I very much disagree with this mass claim.  I think there are important things that interact with it.  Plus scum must have fake claims.

[gkrieg13]

I think I am against race claiming but I’m not sure.

I can see it having a direct impact on item transfer and potentially helping scum know who to target for kill/alignment swap.

This.

[gkrieg13]

Relevant Idplay posts:

I think Samurai Jack is more likely to be town, though could possibly be scum. I think Galz's claim is more on the townie side. Not sure why everyone else is claiming willy nilly.

I just asked for volunteers. No one seems to have taken me up on it and it's very disappointing.

I don't like jokey starts.

Vote: Hydrad

You think faust is scummy, but don't want to vote for him?

vote: Hydrad

I don't think his response to this is enough to convince me not to vote for him.

Bad vote.

I'm not sure what to make of all of this. No strong reads to speak of.

I agree with the self-voting on the role. I'm not sure how I would have played it myself though.

I can get on the Robz train. vote: Robz

More bad voting.

And that's it. Okay, I am fine with this vote.

This case seems weak.

[gkrieg13]

Well, this is boring. Let's say a bunch of random things:

- The only two people I'm interested in lynching today, barring anybody coming out with results, are faust or Gkrieg.

- I still strongly think we should race claim. I know that I'm human. I've seen a human and a beast flipped, both good, and I know of the existence of a character that is scum and half-demon.

- There's a potential for a triggered UB to exist, and thus Swan's role may not be gone. This could make forcing scum to fake-race claim quite valuable as they could get caught out in a lie.

- Speaking of said character from point two, I believe at some point they will have the opportunity to alignment change. I'm not certain what the conditions for this are though, or how exactly the process works. But as they are half-human, half-demon, and the character changes sides in the show, it simply seems a natural process.

Since nobody wants to get on the faust train right now (I -really- don't think that there are two town players that benefit from getting themsevles lynched. EFHW was questionable, because while she's more valuable dead than alive, she's NOT more valuable dead than scum), I'm going to switch to Gkrieg.

He was scummy yesterday, is scummy today, and had a scumm-ily timed vote on EFHW.
vote: Gkrieg

I think hoping for a UB or another flavor cop seems like it is too unlikely to want to claim race.

I think your point on alignment change is interesting and makes sense.  How was I scummy yesterday, what have I even said today, and how was my vote on EFHW scummy?

[gkrieg13]

Pretty sure my whole game has been analyzing faust in a negative light. You might not agree but not sure why I would need to repeat it all. Strange there was no need to back my vote on gkrieg with any case and i flippantly even said I didn’t see one despite voting him in the same breath.

Strange to who?  I don't understand the last sentence.

[gkrieg13]

vote: gkrieg L-2

He is so under the radar i kinda forgot he’s in a game

I've been V/LA at a conference.  Got back yesterday.

[gkrieg13]

I -really- don't think that there are two town players that benefit from getting themsevles lynched. EFHW was questionable, because while she's more valuable dead than alive, she's NOT more valuable dead than scum

I do not know why this matters - if anything, believing that I am a town player that benefits from being lynched should make you want to vote me more, not less - but I do not benefit from being lynched. If I did, I would just claim and say "here, lynch me!".

That’s why, as I said D1, i have a suspicion, you’re a scum player benefited from a lynch

I mean, ugh. It could be but honestly that would just be bad game design. It should be town's objective to lynch scum. Having a scum lynch actually be beneficial for scum kind of breaks the game.

Strongly agree with this.

[gkrieg13]

Why is faust suddenly defending gkrieg?

I don't like the ease with which the wagon has sprung up - after I said I found him scummy and without much of a case at all - while my vote on Idplay that is just as good was ignored. And I'm still wary of Galzria.

I'm not ok with the big wagons forming yet, there's still more to discuss.  See below:

I don't know how big wagons are preventing us from discussing stuff. I'd rather have more happen than to wait for you to finish your 1-post-a-day discussion of things until we're out of time.

I want faust to say what he did last night, because as it stands my role-information from last night is pointing in the direction of scum!faust.

Well okay then. I took no action.

This last changes things.
Mmk.

I still find gkrieg scummy.

What the hell is the case on Robz?

For what do you find me scummy?

[gkrieg13]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

Again: I will only vote for Gkrieg or Faust today. I prefer Faust, who has managed to be far more difficult to gain any traction on than Robz, which seems to be the only real reason people are voting Robz.

I'm still confused why it has to be me or faust today.  I feel like I haven't even done anything this game.

[gkrieg13]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

I always get cold feet when my preferred lynch choice attracts lots of votes for no reason. You still haven't answered my question why his EFHW vote was scummy. Or, I think you didn't. I don't have the best track record noticing your answers this game.

Because it was the first vote after she self voted, and I would expect scum, knowing she's town, to simply accept it far easier than town would. Town would at least take a moment to go "Huh, that's weird, what's going on here?"

Keep in mind that I was already at the conference at this point.  I voted for her as a kneejerk reaction because of the self-vote and claim before L-1.  I didn't look back at the thread after, and I only ever have a snapshot of what is going on while I'm V/LA (I have other things that I'm thinking about).

[gkrieg13]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

I always get cold feet when my preferred lynch choice attracts lots of votes for no reason. You still haven't answered my question why his EFHW vote was scummy. Or, I think you didn't. I don't have the best track record noticing your answers this game.

Because it was the first vote after she self voted, and I would expect scum, knowing she's town, to simply accept it far easier than town would. Town would at least take a moment to go "Huh, that's weird, what's going on here?"

I dunno about that. I cam along for the hammer but as soon as I saw what she did I pretty much immediately proceeded. There wasn't much about what she did that gave me pause at all. As I said earlier, the only thing bad about her play was the timing of the self-vote. In fact, I think she could have pulled the deal off without the self-vote and gotten more value out of it. But to say that scum sought refuge in her self-vote is pure WIFOM because that sort of play allows free votes from any alignment.

As town, it should have given you pause. Her lynch was not good for town. It was strictly worse than a scum lynch. If you had any belief that she was what she claimed, it should have made you reconsider.

Now, I'm not arguing that there was TIME for a different lynch, or that her lynch was worse than no-lynch (which would've been the other option at that time). That's an entirely separate argument - and to be fair, that's not the argument that you're making either here either. But to say that her claim didn't give you any hesitation at all, or that you didn't think "Huh, this probably isn't the best town option at this point" seems like a really strange thing to say.

Now, from your perspective, coming in as late as you did and hammering... well, I can't really say. Maybe you're scum. Maybe you're town that came in and said "Well, this is the only lynch that's happening, deadline is in an hour, and her claim doesn't really change anything so...". But Gkrieg, who voted immediately following her claim, definitely had time to say something - or to weigh in on her claim in some way.

As I said to your earlier post, I was busy and actually did not have any time to say something or weigh in in some way.  I was doing something and just stopped in for a brief moment before the deadline and wanted to help a lynch go through.

[pingpongsam]

Pretty sure my whole game has been analyzing faust in a negative light. You might not agree but not sure why I would need to repeat it all. Strange there was no need to back my vote on gkrieg with any case and i flippantly even said I didn’t see one despite voting him in the same breath.

Strange to who?  I don't understand the last sentence.

Strange to Galzria who had just needled me for voting faust without reiterating numerous points I had made against faust although I had just sheeped Galzria's vote on gkrieg and simultaneously said I didn't see a case. So, the double standard there was the strange bit.

Feeling pretty towny on gkrieg about now.

I feel good about lynching Robz or faust today.

[Haddock]

Gkrieg's quoted Lalight post does indeed read like townLalight.

One by one my scum reads are disappearing.

Gkrieg I found you scummy mostly for D1 stuff obviously, since you've not been about much d2. I will fish it out tomorrow, can't remember now.  All your recent posts read well, but also train of consciousness catchup rereads are a very useful tool for scum...

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

I always get cold feet when my preferred lynch choice attracts lots of votes for no reason. You still haven't answered my question why his EFHW vote was scummy. Or, I think you didn't. I don't have the best track record noticing your answers this game.

Because it was the first vote after she self voted, and I would expect scum, knowing she's town, to simply accept it far easier than town would. Town would at least take a moment to go "Huh, that's weird, what's going on here?"

I dunno about that. I cam along for the hammer but as soon as I saw what she did I pretty much immediately proceeded. There wasn't much about what she did that gave me pause at all. As I said earlier, the only thing bad about her play was the timing of the self-vote. In fact, I think she could have pulled the deal off without the self-vote and gotten more value out of it. But to say that scum sought refuge in her self-vote is pure WIFOM because that sort of play allows free votes from any alignment.

As town, it should have given you pause. Her lynch was not good for town. It was strictly worse than a scum lynch. If you had any belief that she was what she claimed, it should have made you reconsider.

Now, I'm not arguing that there was TIME for a different lynch, or that her lynch was worse than no-lynch (which would've been the other option at that time). That's an entirely separate argument - and to be fair, that's not the argument that you're making either here either. But to say that her claim didn't give you any hesitation at all, or that you didn't think "Huh, this probably isn't the best town option at this point" seems like a really strange thing to say.

Now, from your perspective, coming in as late as you did and hammering... well, I can't really say. Maybe you're scum. Maybe you're town that came in and said "Well, this is the only lynch that's happening, deadline is in an hour, and her claim doesn't really change anything so...". But Gkrieg, who voted immediately following her claim, definitely had time to say something - or to weigh in on her claim in some way.

It's not that strange as behaviour coming from PPS, tbh...

Still don't get the robz case, can someone explain?

Could absolutely lynch idptg.  Galz is not looking so obviously towny to me any more, but that's probably a subconscious consequence of my now leaning towny on faust and their early game conflict.

[pingpongsam]

Wait, where's the part where you think faust is towny?

[Hydrad]

vote: gkrieg L-2

He is so under the radar i kinda forgot he’s in a game

I've been V/LA at a conference.  Got back yesterday.

Now you are overwhelming. . but no in serious I am liking the posts.

[Hydrad]

Unvote

For now.

[Hydrad]

I kinda wanna Vote: Haddock again.

but if the wagons are between faust and robz right now? hmm. I guess right now I'd be fine voting robz but I actually can't think of a reason why. lemme read robz a bit again.

[faust]

Pretty sure my whole game has been analyzing faust in a negative light. You might not agree but not sure why I would need to repeat it all. Strange there was no need to back my vote on gkrieg with any case and i flippantly even said I didn’t see one despite voting him in the same breath.

Strange to who?  I don't understand the last sentence.

Strange to Galzria who had just needled me for voting faust without reiterating numerous points I had made against faust although I had just sheeped Galzria's vote on gkrieg and simultaneously said I didn't see a case. So, the double standard there was the strange bit.

Feeling pretty towny on gkrieg about now.

I feel good about lynching Robz or faust today.

So what about gkrieg's posts was it that made you change your mind?

[faust]

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

wow, why?

- DatSwan pushed for gkrieg
- DatSwan/Galzria have a history of voting for each other
- Galzria did not die even though he claimed main character.

Given that you claimed a protective role, it is strange that you are saying someone is scummy for not dying.  Just the existence of a protective role implies that scum wouldn't go for the main character without strongman/roleblock (which I guess is pretty likely for them to have).  If you have a protective role that is fairly traditional (JK, Doc, etc.), this is scummy.

Even with a protective role around, I think Galzria was still a more likely NK target than most other players. But it is much about WIFOM and how the scum team is handling high risk/high reward situations.