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[pacovf]

It's a really good game. A cross between a Metroidvania and Dark Souls. It's tough but fair, and the artstyle is just amazing. Of note, around 3 hours in (once you get the first two traversal abilities), the game just completely opens up and lets you go pretty much wherever you want in that massive world.

Anyone else here played it? I just finished everything the game currently has to offer (aside from Path of Pain, which I do not currently intend to do), took me a bit less than 40h, and now I am waiting for the next (and final) free DLC to drop.

[LastFootnote]

I've heard of it. The art-style actually doesn't really grab me, but man it's getting rave reviews. I'll probably get it when it comes out on Switch this year, assuming the port isn't botched somehow.

[pacovf]

I didn't know there was a version for the Switch coming until after I bought it on Steam and started playing, otherwise I would have waited. Sounds like a good match for the Switch, honestly.

Note that if you are expecting a pure Metroivania, you might be disappointed, there's relatively few traversal skills unlocked throughout the game, and the important ones are unlocked somewhat quickly. Most of the fun is in the exploration, the combat and platforming. And the difficulty, especially in the optional areas, courtesy of some really responsive controls that allow the game to get away with being demanding.

Mostly I just want to discuss the lore now, which, true to its Dark Souls inspiration, is mostly just implied throughout, rarely stated outright. And some parts of it are currently obsessing me. Like, what are the crimes that the Moth tribe/the Seer committed, for which the Seer is still making penance?

And also, want a chance to brag about the fact that I defeated Nightmare King Grimm :p

[LaLight]

I started playing it a week and a half ago on Switch and I am in love! It is tough, although maximum time i spend trying a single thing was 1,5 hours (those challenges, man!) I think it's the best thing I played for a huge while

[LaLight]

also, Saving Caterpillars fills me with an enormous amount of happiness. Good to fight depression, I mean it

[LastFootnote]

Looking back to my post two years ago. Glad I bought it! The art is actually a great fit for the game.

And man oh man, Hollow Knight is basically the best value in video games. It’s over 60 hours of fantastic platforming game for $15. That’s a ridiculous value. I almost hope they charge more for Silksong. They deserve to be paid well for their work.

[pacovf]

So after two years, I bought it on the switch and played through it again because of the quarantine. Took a lot less time to complete the game the second time around (25h to do *everything* except godhome and the successive levels of Grey Prince and White defender). Then it took me 13h to complete the first 4 pantheons (no bindings though). The Hall of Gods allow bosses to be harder than in normal gameplay, since you can instantly retry bosses without the bench run. It’s kinda surprising that bosses that used to feel almost impossible to me (NKG, Watcher Knights, Failed Champion...) now feel trivial.

I still don’t think I will do the pantheon of Hallownest, just because of how much of a time commitment it is. Especially if I do bound runs of the other pantheons first...

[sudgy]

So, I forgot to mention, I fairly recently finally did mostly everything in this game, including beating the pantheon of the hallownest.  You thought NKG was hard?  Just wait until you fight the Absolute Radiance.  It is insane.

Mostly I just want to discuss the lore now, which, true to its Dark Souls inspiration, is mostly just implied throughout, rarely stated outright. And some parts of it are currently obsessing me. Like, what are the crimes that the Moth tribe/the Seer committed, for which the Seer is still making penance?

I think that it was mainly the fact that the Radiance was the god of the Moth tribe.  The moths probably still worshiped the Radiance and not the Pale King, which he didn't like.

[pacovf]

I think that it was mainly the fact that the Radiance was the god of the Moth tribe.  The moths probably still worshiped the Radiance and not the Pale King, which he didn't like.

I think, more than not liking it, it's more about their/her worship giving power to the Radiance? I sort of understood it as her saying that if the Moth tribe had truly forgotten the Radiance, she would have disappeared completely.

[sudgy]

I think that it was mainly the fact that the Radiance was the god of the Moth tribe.  The moths probably still worshiped the Radiance and not the Pale King, which he didn't like.

I think, more than not liking it, it's more about their/her worship giving power to the Radiance? I sort of understood it as her saying that if the Moth tribe had truly forgotten the Radiance, she would have disappeared completely.

I thought that the Radiance got more power from people forgetting her, because she got mad that she wasn't worshiped as much.  It was as she was being forgotten that the infection started coming in the first place.

[pacovf]

The seer says "None of us can live forever, and so we ask those who survive to remember us. Hold something in your mind and it lives on with you, but forget it and you seal it away forever. That is the only death that matters. [pause] Huh, so they say!"

And just before vanishing, she says "Don't remember us, Wielder. Don't honour us. We do not deserve it... Aahh... I'm sorry... Light... Radiance... I... remember you."

I took this to mean that, while the Radiance infected the dreams of Hallownest's bugs because she was mad about being forgotten, the reason why she was still alive in the first place was because she was never completely forgotten. Because of the seer. I would have taken the first statement as metaphorical, but the way her last words were phrased, I tend to give it more weight.

[popsofctown]

My roommate was letting me play but suddenly moved out and now if I get my own copy I'd have to replay parts hm

[sudgy]

My roommate was letting me play but suddenly moved out and now if I get my own copy I'd have to replay parts hm

[LostPhoenix]

I bought this a while back when it was on sale. Played it for half an hour, didn't like the movement, and stopped playing. Fast forward a year, and I decided to see what all the fuss was about. Despite my previous experience with platforming (Cave Story, Super Meat Boy, Celeste, Dead Cells, Ori) it took me a while to really get into this one, but once I did, I couldn't stop playing. In the past week, I've sunk 40 hours into the game.

Man this game is good. Boss fights are very challenging, but don't feel unfair. The art style is nearly perfect. Unlocking abilities is exciting. Even all the charms feel genuinely useful at some point. No areas feel like they're "one and done," so to speak. there's always another pathway, corridor, or nook to explore after unlocking more skills. I've heard some criticism of the map system, but I think it's brilliant. However, I do wish there was more indication of where to go and when. Some major areas in the game can only be found by hacking at a random wall in some random place. Maybe this is typical of metroidvania - I lack experience in this genre.

I can also tell that the lore in this game goes fairly deep. However, getting it in brief disjointed snippets from NPCs and scribbles in rocks is making me thoroughly confused. Most of the time I have no idea why I'm going to certain places and killing the baddies there. Every once in a while an NPC will give me some vague speech and all I do is sit there and think, "cool story bro, but I have no idea what any of this means." Only after looking at the wiki have I started to piece the story together.

Overall, I'm really looking forward to the sequel (if it ever comes out).

[LaLight]

Interesting, because I play Dead Cells now and it is a lot harder for me than Hollow Knight ever was. I had almost the same experience of "didn't like the movement and skipped and then returned and loved"

[LostPhoenix]

Interesting, because I play Dead Cells now and it is a lot harder for me than Hollow Knight ever was. I had almost the same experience of "didn't like the movement and skipped and then returned and loved"

Dead Cells movement definitely took some getting used to, but now it feels so fluid. I think Dead Cells is a big reason why I didn't like Hollow Knight at first. I was so used to rolling through enemies rather than jumping over them.

[LaLight]

Interesting, because I play Dead Cells now and it is a lot harder for me than Hollow Knight ever was. I had almost the same experience of "didn't like the movement and skipped and then returned and loved"

Dead Cells movement definitely took some getting used to, but now it feels so fluid. I think Dead Cells is a big reason why I didn't like Hollow Knight at first. I was so used to rolling through enemies rather than jumping over them.

right, I needed to get used to rolling because jumping not always helps :)

[LostPhoenix]

I started the Path of Pain and though it wasn't too bad. Then I got to one specific corridor and now I'm on my 286th death.

[LaLight]

I just got the most painful flashbacks!

[LostPhoenix]

Finally got it on my 343rd try. I don't think I've been through a platforming section that hard since Super Meat Boy.

[pacovf]

I started the Path of Pain and though it wasn't too bad. Then I got to one specific corridor and now I'm on my 286th death.

Were you just keeping track of this? That would be so demoralizing to me.

[LostPhoenix]

I started the Path of Pain and though it wasn't too bad. Then I got to one specific corridor and now I'm on my 286th death.

Were you just keeping track of this? That would be so demoralizing to me.

I was keeping track, just out of curiosity. It only took a couple hours since individual attempts are so short.

[LaLight]

Finally got it on my 343rd try. I don't think I've been through a platforming section that hard since Super Meat Boy.

yeaaah try Celeste. It's Path of Pain but the whole game

[GendoIkari]

Just bought this recently for Switch; but dunno when I'll actually start it. Haven't actually touched the Switch in a couple months. Lots of movies to watch.

[LostPhoenix]

Finally got it on my 343rd try. I don't think I've been through a platforming section that hard since Super Meat Boy.

yeaaah try Celeste. It's Path of Pain but the whole game

Celeste is great! Your comment reminded me that I was in the middle of the Summit B-side. I've since cleared it with 525 deaths. 

[LostPhoenix]

Just bought this recently for Switch; but dunno when I'll actually start it. Haven't actually touched the Switch in a couple months. Lots of movies to watch.

I'd recommend trying it when you have a fair chunk of time available. Hollow Knight is a very bingeable game.

[GendoIkari]

Just bought this recently for Switch; but dunno when I'll actually start it. Haven't actually touched the Switch in a couple months. Lots of movies to watch.

And finally just now started it! Loving it so far. Not very far, I assume anyway. Definitely quite tough, but that’s the sort of thing I like, given that I beat every level of Celeste. A couple different bosses have taken me dozens of tries to finally beat.

[LastFootnote]

Just bought this recently for Switch; but dunno when I'll actually start it. Haven't actually touched the Switch in a couple months. Lots of movies to watch.

And finally just now started it! Loving it so far. Not very far, I assume anyway. Definitely quite tough, but that’s the sort of thing I like, given that I beat every level of Celeste. A couple different bosses have taken me dozens of tries to finally beat.

My advice for the early-ish game: don't attempt to defeat the Mantis Lords until you've upgraded your nail at least once.

[GendoIkari]

Just bought this recently for Switch; but dunno when I'll actually start it. Haven't actually touched the Switch in a couple months. Lots of movies to watch.

And finally just now started it! Loving it so far. Not very far, I assume anyway. Definitely quite tough, but that’s the sort of thing I like, given that I beat every level of Celeste. A couple different bosses have taken me dozens of tries to finally beat.

My advice for the early-ish game: don't attempt to defeat the Mantis Lords until you've upgraded your nail at least once.

That's pretty much right where I am. I got to that boss but luckily it was late and I didn't have time to try and grind out beating them, so I just left it alone. Then got the first nail upgrade shortly after.

I did spend way too long finally beating Brooding Mawlek with only the starting nail; which is annoying knowing that I could have done it after an upgrade and had a much easier time.

[GendoIkari]

Many play sessions later and I still haven't gone back to fight them, because there's just so much stuff to explore that I haven't had to. I will soon though; since I just got the stuff needed for a level 4 nail.

[LastFootnote]

Many play sessions later and I still haven't gone back to fight them, because there's just so much stuff to explore that I haven't had to. I will soon though; since I just got the stuff needed for a level 4 nail.

Two things about beating the Mantis Lords.

1. When you've done so, it opens up an area within the lower part of the mantis village (right side) that includes a bench (I think) and a very useful charm. I didn't realize this until much later in my first playthrough, and I wish I had.
2. Just past the gate the Mantis Lords are guarding is a mask shard, so if you need just one more shard to complete a mask, now might be a pretty good time to fight them. It shouldn't be too hard with a nail that strong.

[GendoIkari]

Many play sessions later and I still haven't gone back to fight them, because there's just so much stuff to explore that I haven't had to. I will soon though; since I just got the stuff needed for a level 4 nail.

Two things about beating the Mantis Lords.

1. When you've done so, it opens up an area within the lower part of the mantis village (right side) that includes a bench (I think) and a very useful charm. I didn't realize this until much later in my first playthrough, and I wish I had.
2. Just past the gate the Mantis Lords are guarding is a mask shard, so if you need just one more shard to complete a mask, now might be a pretty good time to fight them. It shouldn't be too hard with a nail that strong.

I beat them without much trouble; though it still was about 5 attempts. I had that mask shard you're talking about already though; you can get it by going through Deep Nest instead.

At this point I've explored the vast majority of places; most of what's left is a handful of bosses I know about, and then all sorts of really late-game stuff I've seen referenced but not encountered yet.

[pacovf]

I have to assume LFN's comment about the shard was a bait to get you to fall into the Deepnest. One of the most memorable parts of the game for me was getting there a bit early (before crystal mines) and unprepared (nail 2 at most), and having to do a really, really long treck back to civilization (through the tram to the ancient basin, then Kingdom edge and finally eastern City of Tears before the next stag station, if you don't think to go to the distant village)

[GendoIkari]

I have to assume LFN's comment about the shard was a bait to get you to fall into the Deepnest. One of the most memorable parts of the game for me was getting there a bit early (before crystal mines) and unprepared (nail 2 at most), and having to do a really, really long treck back to civilization (through the tram to the ancient basin, then Kingdom edge and finally eastern City of Tears before the next stag station, if you don't think to go to the distant village)

In general any time I went to a new map area, if I noticed that the most common enemies were taking 4 hits to kill, I immediately left instead of exploring that area.

[LastFootnote]

I have to assume LFN's comment about the shard was a bait to get you to fall into the Deepnest. One of the most memorable parts of the game for me was getting there a bit early (before crystal mines) and unprepared (nail 2 at most), and having to do a really, really long treck back to civilization (through the tram to the ancient basin, then Kingdom edge and finally eastern City of Tears before the next stag station, if you don't think to go to the distant village)

No, I wasn't attempting to trick anybody. I honestly thought that was the only way to get that shard. I didn't think it was accessible from underneath.

[GendoIkari]

Just finished the third coliseum of fools challenge. That was brutal. About 2 straight hours dying to it. And in the end I only beat it by taking a break to go get the Weaversong charm and basically cheesing a few of the later fights with it.

[faust]

Just finished the third coliseum of fools challenge. That was brutal. About 2 straight hours dying to it. And in the end I only beat it by taking a break to go get the Weaversong charm and basically cheesing a few of the later fights with it.

Oh I also just did that on the weekend.

My cheese solution for the final fight was Hiveblood; they can't reach you when you're far enough up on the wall, so you can always regenerate there.

[GendoIkari]

Just finished the third coliseum of fools challenge. That was brutal. About 2 straight hours dying to it. And in the end I only beat it by taking a break to go get the Weaversong charm and basically cheesing a few of the later fights with it.

Oh I also just did that on the weekend.

My cheese solution for the final fight was Hiveblood; they can't reach you when you're far enough up on the wall, so you can always regenerate there.

Yeah that's quite similar to the Weaversong strat; you stay up high on the wall and your minions go down and (very slightly) hurt the enemies while collecting soul.

[GendoIkari]

I beat the game; bad ending at least. 104% so far.

Just got the Kingsoul to work towards the other endings. The White Palace wasn't all too bad. With Hiveblood and Grubsong there's no danger of actually dying. Funny thing though, I thought that was the Path of Pain that I'd heard so much about; until I finished it and then found the actual Path of Pain.

Now working through PoP. The fact that they give you checkpoints makes it not as hard as I was expecting; the level of difficulty I was expecting would be basically if you had to do the whole thing without getting hit once. I'm up to the final checkpoint now; just one corridor to go. Took about 3 hours to get that far; had to stop for the night. Thank goodness for Switch's sleep feature; since saving and quitting would make me have to re-do the whole thing.

Also did most of the Grimm Troupe quest; now just need to beat Nightmare King Grimm... I tried a bit and didn't come close at all; but haven't spent much time grinding it out yet.

I don't know for sure how much of the Godseeker stuff I'll do. I unlocked it but haven't started it yet. Fighting a bunch of bosses in a row without checkpoints sounds like more grinding than I'd be willing to do.

[GendoIkari]

Final corridor of Path of Pain took about an hour. Not too bad as a whole, but really took awhile just to get into the rhythm of the first few jumps.

Then went ahead and got Void Heart and the second "bad" ending. Also finished the Hunter's Journal (the normal 100% that's required to get the Hunter's Mark; there's a handful of additional entries that count only as "extra" entries).

And we killed the mender bug, which was by far the most tedious part of the game so far... 2% chance for it to show up when reloading the room; and we had worse than average luck with far more than 50 attempts. Still, his journal entry is just hilarious in a tragic way.

[pacovf]

The pantheons unlock 4 new bosses and remixes of many others. First three pantheons are honestly not too bad (but unlikely to beat them first try just due to how they’re structured), so I would say try those and see. Fourth is hard but unlocks arguably the best boss in the game. Fifth is an insane time commitment, but it’s not like you have to do it to enjoy the others.

[GendoIkari]

The pantheons unlock 4 new bosses and remixes of many others. First three pantheons are honestly not too bad (but unlikely to beat them first try just due to how they’re structured), so I would say try those and see. Fourth is hard but unlocks arguably the best boss in the game. Fifth is an insane time commitment, but it’s not like you have to do it to enjoy the others.

That’s kind of what I was thinking. I’ll for sure try them and see how it goes; but there’s a limit to how much time I’m willing to grind; especially when it’s the type of thing that makes you re-do a lot of stuff to get back to where you failed.

But speaking of hard grinds… I just beat Nightmare King Grimm!! Holy hell that was a hard fight. Spent 8 straight hours last night grinding away; could only get him down to 50% health in that time. Back to it today; took about another 4 hours to finally finish it off. It was crazy but fun.

[LastFootnote]

This is the sort of time commitment for people who don't have children. It's a shame I'll likely never 100% this game.

[GendoIkari]

This is the sort of time commitment for people who don't have children. It's a shame I'll likely never 100% this game.

Even with more time; I don’t have the patience for it either. I can’t do what the speedrunners and streamers do; where they can play the exact same thing over and over again including the easier parts just to get to the hard part. I’ll grind out any single tough boss fight; but if it takes a long time just to get back to that boss fight after each failure, I’m out. Same reason why I won’t do golden berries in Celeste even though I 100%’d it otherwise.

Related; been watching Barberous King’s HK playthrough from last year and he just beat the third colosseum. He hated it because of the huge amount of stuff you have to re-do just to get back to the hard parts at the end.

[pacovf]

For what it's worth, that's what the Hall of Gods is good for. Just practice the bosses you struggle with until you can beat them in Ascended, they'll feel easy in the pantheon afterwards. I found that to be less frustrating than grinding the pantheon itself.

By the way, did you find the uh secret "pantheon"?

EDIT: Oh, just saw they were complaining about the *colosseum*, not the pantheons. Yeah, the third one is a bit frustrating in that sense, and probably why most people just end up "cheesing" it.

[GendoIkari]

Finally got into the Pantheons, after finishing everything else completely. Including starting a separate save file to get the 3 achievements that are mutually exclusive with other achievements so couldn't be gotten on my main save file.

Got through the first 2 without too much trouble. Pantheon 3 is getting me stuck, and I'm fairly certain that I won't ever be beating 4 or 5.

Went on to try and get the true ending for now. Getting stuck on Radiance, but it doesn't seem like it will be all too bad. It's annoying to have to fight Hollow Knight every time, though at this point with the right charm build, it doesn't take long at all and has very little chance of dying there.

[LastFootnote]

I never did beat the Radiance. I can't remember how many times I tried, since it was years ago now.

[pacovf]

Oh, I had forgotten that Zote is in the 3rd pantheon, I thought that was in the 4th (though in hindsight I'm glad it wasn't). Yeah, that automatically makes it a hard pantheon too. I'm... not a huge fan of that fight.

[GendoIkari]

By the way, did you find the uh secret "pantheon"?

Assuming you mean Eternal Ordeal? I had to look it up; never would have found it on my own. But yeah I played it some; got to 40. Not going to keep grinding for 57.

I beat Radiance last night. Also tried a few more attempts at Pantheon 3 but no luck. I'm officially done with the game now; stuck at 110% completion. Ended up spending over 120 hours on it total; insane.

[GendoIkari]

Mostly I just want to discuss the lore now, which, true to its Dark Souls inspiration, is mostly just implied throughout, rarely stated outright. And some parts of it are currently obsessing me. Like, what are the crimes that the Moth tribe/the Seer committed, for which the Seer is still making penance?

I think that it was mainly the fact that the Radiance was the god of the Moth tribe.  The moths probably still worshiped the Radiance and not the Pale King, which he didn't like.

Actually from what I've read/watched about the lore; it's the exact opposite. They turned their back on Radiance to worship Pale King instead; but Radiance was too powerful to just be forgotten about so it started to invade everyone's minds, aka the infection.