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[Cuzz]

is amazing. Discuss.

[Mic Qsenoch]

I like the part where you are jumping around.

[Kuildeous]

I looked it up on Wikipedia. Looks promising.

I wonder if it runs fine on my computer. My Alienware died, so I'm using a lesser computer right now.

[LastFootnote]

I beat it. I may try to get all the strawberries.

I did the first B-Side. Man, I don't think I'm going to get through the rest of those.

But yes, I highly recommend the game. I feel like I got my money's worth just playing through the main plot, and then there's a bunch more content if I want to go back to it.

[sitnaltax]

I'm enjoying it a lot. I love the short levels. It never feels cruel or unfair, even when it's being difficult.

I also appreciate the way they slowly introduce new challenges. They don't make you feel bad for missing the difficult strawberries and not jumping into the B-sides.

I got all the strawberries and I'm currently 5/8 B-sides, working on Chapter 6. I don't anticipate going for the golden strawberries or C-sides--but then again, I didn't anticipate going for the B-sides either and yet here I am.

[Mic Qsenoch]

I got all the strawberries and I'm currently 5/8 B-sides, working on Chapter 6. I don't anticipate going for the golden strawberries or C-sides--but then again, I didn't anticipate going for the B-sides either and yet here I am.

If you finish the B-sides I think you will definitely want to do the C-sides, the difficulty ramp from B to C is not that severe. The C-sides are very short and there's essentially just one super long super hard screen. I really enjoyed them, anyway.

Besides the first couple normal levels, I think the golden strawberries are an entirely different (and to me, not appealing) beast. There is a part of me that wants to grind out a few more, though.

[blueblimp]

Celeste is excellent. I didn't try it right away because it's been compared to Super Meat Boy and I didn't really like that, but turns out I like Celeste anyway. Not sure what's the difference. (Maybe it's mostly that I don't like the SMB aesthetic.)

I've done everything now except 8B (which I did on 50% speed using assist mode) and 3C. Also, not the golden strawberries of course. It's probably my favorite 2D platformer of all time, but I usually don't like 2D platformers so that doesn't mean much. If anyone wants to try only one challenging platformer, this is the one to try.

Another game I've enjoyed recently is the VR game To The Top, which is basically the same genre as Celeste except as a VR game. One thing To The Top does that I wish Celeste did too is to have par times for each chapter. (TTT actually has three times of increasing difficulty.) Also, TTT's stages are more similar in length to Celeste's subchapters. Overall it makes for a more compelling casual speedrunning game. Celeste seems to be a great speedrun game but more for the hardcore crowd.

[blueblimp]

By the way, this GDC talk by the game's lead dev is a really interesting watch: One of Celeste's many strong points is the excellent level design, and the talk gives a behind the scenes look at how they did it.

[Cuzz]

By the way, this GDC talk by the game's lead dev is a really interesting watch: One of Celeste's many strong points is the excellent level design, and the talk gives a behind the scenes look at how they did it.

Nice, I'll have to check this out. I really enjoyed the Game Maker's Toolkit video about its Assist Mode specifically, which is how I learned about the game in the first place.

Made it to the end and heading back for B-sides now. I suck so I'm already at over 20 hours and 6k deaths, but as someone who plays like 3 games a year at the most I'm really impressed with just how much it's sucked me in.

[popsofctown]

price?

[LastFootnote]

price?

$20

[Titandrake]

Celeste is excellent. I didn't try it right away because it's been compared to Super Meat Boy and I didn't really like that, but turns out I like Celeste anyway. Not sure what's the difference. (Maybe it's mostly that I don't like the SMB aesthetic.)

I haven't played Celeste yet, but the distinction I've heard is that Super Meat Boy is a precision platformer and Celeste is a momentum platformer. Precision platformers are about hitting very small jump windows, but your movement is very consistent and it depends very little on how you reach the jump point. Momentum platformers give you larger timing windows, but in exchange your movement state matters a lot more, and the game is more about maintaining speed and understanding the movement system.

Dustforce is a momentum platformer and so far everyone in the Dustforce Discord recommends Celeste.

[blueblimp]

Hm, that's interesting. For an ordinary playthrough (not speedrunning), I don't feel like Celeste puts much emphasis on maintaining speed. Almost the opposite, since you can stop really quickly on solid ground or by grabbing a wall. (Speedrunning is a different story because it uses techniques that you wouldn't use playing through normally.)

That said, the usual way to solve levels is to repeatedly figure out the sequence of moves you want to make to get to the next rest point, then make them in succession. Each move has some slack on it, but you do need to find a reasonable sequence. So if that's what "momentum platformer" means, that sounds accurate.

[Cuzz]

I think the grip strength element involves  “maintaining speed” to some degree though maybe that’s not what they mean.

I did think it was cool in the video above where the creator talks about the “multiple approaches” and making hard levels that aren’t reduced to just a sequence of precise inputs. There’s always a cushion even if it is very small.

[Cuzz]

The speed runs of this game are crazy. The fact that there are these ways of moving through levels that you wouldn’t find or use in an ordinary play through, but that they are somehow there by design and not a glitch is really interesting. They basically all look like a TAS run.

[Awaclus]

I tried it for a while, didn't really like it. I think it feels more like a rhythm game in that the gameplay is largely about pressing a specified key at a specified moment, and obviously because I'm a drummer, I always hit the keys too fast.

[blueblimp]

I did think it was cool in the video above where the creator talks about the “multiple approaches” and making hard levels that aren’t reduced to just a sequence of precise inputs. There’s always a cushion even if it is very small.

Yeah. Actually, considering that there isn't much precision demanded and you're given lots of rest points, it's a bit subtle why the game is hard at all. I think the key is that most generically-reasonable inputs will cause you to die (or otherwise fail to complete the room). That means very few of the rooms can be completed by accident, so you're forced to understand the room so that you can find specific inputs that work for that room. That gives it a slight puzzle-y feel to me, even though it really isn't a puzzle game.

[markusin]

I watched the "Best Friends Play Celeste" video on Youtube that I stumbled upon by chance and checked out because of this thread. It was entertaining to watch, and the fluidity in the movement seemed appealing.

[popsofctown]

I also didn't like Super Meat Boy yet like some games that are very similar to it.  There's this one on kongregate I played that's super similar, and I loved the game boy Donkey Kong puzzle platformer, and I've played all sorts of high difficulty platformers and dug them.  Spelunky comes to mind.

There's not always time for all the things I want to do but I might wanna check this out. 

I saw a crazy platformer during the last summer games done quick or whatever, it had 4 characters and all of them were like, chimney sweeps? it was pretty interesting to watch.  Sometimes I feel like maybe they are funner to think about or watch then play..

[pacovf]

I also didn't like Super Meat Boy yet like some games that are very similar to it.  There's this one on kongregate I played that's super similar, and I loved the game boy Donkey Kong puzzle platformer, and I've played all sorts of high difficulty platformers and dug them.  Spelunky comes to mind.

I'd say Spelunky is different. It's less hard than it feels, it's just super high stakes, because if you die, you've got to start completely over. If you had no items and only one hitpoint, but there was a checkpoint after every level, it would be a lot easier.

EDIT: or maybe I just need to git gud

I saw a crazy platformer during the last summer games done quick or whatever, it had 4 characters and all of them were like, chimney sweeps? it was pretty interesting to watch.  Sometimes I feel like maybe they are funner to think about or watch then play..

Dustforce?

[sitnaltax]

I got all the strawberries and I'm currently 5/8 B-sides, working on Chapter 6. I don't anticipate going for the golden strawberries or C-sides--but then again, I didn't anticipate going for the B-sides either and yet here I am.

If you finish the B-sides I think you will definitely want to do the C-sides, the difficulty ramp from B to C is not that severe. The C-sides are very short and there's essentially just one super long super hard screen. I really enjoyed them, anyway.

Besides the first couple normal levels, I think the golden strawberries are an entirely different (and to me, not appealing) beast. There is a part of me that wants to grind out a few more, though.

Thanks for the encouragement. I finally finished 8-B and indeed the C-sides seem pretty fair so far--I'm on 4-C right now. They're not as bad as I imagined--some intense maneuvers with no breaks, but the individual pieces are ok. For example, in 3-C (the level where the hotel ghost charges at you) I dreaded having to jump, dash, stomp the ghost to gain altitude/refresh, and dash again. The level doesn't require you to do that, though, which was nice.

[blueblimp]

Thanks for the encouragement. I finally finished 8-B and indeed the C-sides seem pretty fair so far--I'm on 4-C right now. They're not as bad as I imagined--some intense maneuvers with no breaks, but the individual pieces are ok. For example, in 3-C (the level where the hotel ghost charges at you) I dreaded having to jump, dash, stomp the ghost to gain altitude/refresh, and dash again. The level doesn't require you to do that, though, which was nice.

For me, 3C was by far the hardest, because I find the Oshiro bop timing really hard. (Well, maybe not the highest deaths since it's not very long, but bopping Oshiro was the single hardest move for me.) The ones most people think are hardest are 5C, 7C, 8C. They're all fair though.

[blueblimp]

I'd say Spelunky is different. It's less hard than it feels, it's just super high stakes, because if you die, you've got to start completely over. If you had no items and only one hitpoint, but there was a checkpoint after every level, it would be a lot easier.

That's the tricky thing about the term "hard". There are a lot of different ways for a game to be hard. I wish there were better terms that more precisely described what makes the game hard, because some forms of hardness I like, and some I don't.

For games with hand-crafted levels, I like Celeste's model a lot (which dates back at least as far as Matt Thorson's early work Jumper (2004)): frequent checkpoints and instant respawn. Maybe it's that I like low stakes games that nevertheless require you to actually spend mental effort to play them.

[sitnaltax]

For me, 3C was by far the hardest, because I find the Oshiro bop timing really hard. (Well, maybe not the highest deaths since it's not very long, but bopping Oshiro was the single hardest move for me.) The ones most people think are hardest are 5C, 7C, 8C. They're all fair though.

Man, you weren't lying about 5-C. That one took me 658 deaths and I was pretty close to just putting the game down. (The turning point came when I realized you don't have to move laterally at all to do the wall kick move, which let me do it much more consistently.) 6-C, by contrast, was 137 and probably less than an hour.

Last stops are 7-C and 8-C, of course, and the videos for both of them look absolutely insane.

[blueblimp]

Yeah, 5C requires mastery of the super wall jump. One issue with teaching advanced tech so late in the game (in 7B and 8C) is that they aren't repeated much in less demanding situations, making them hard to learn fully. IMO it would have been better to not bother teaching dash long jump at all, since 8C doesn't use it an interesting way anyway. For the dash wall jump, maybe require it for all B-sides instead so that the player gets more practice with it. (There is the problem though that people might play the B-sides out of order.)

[Mic Qsenoch]

For me, 3C was by far the hardest, because I find the Oshiro bop timing really hard. (Well, maybe not the highest deaths since it's not very long, but bopping Oshiro was the single hardest move for me.) The ones most people think are hardest are 5C, 7C, 8C. They're all fair though.

Man, you weren't lying about 5-C. That one took me 658 deaths and I was pretty close to just putting the game down. (The turning point came when I realized you don't have to move laterally at all to do the wall kick move, which let me do it much more consistently.) 6-C, by contrast, was 137 and probably less than an hour.

Last stops are 7-C and 8-C, of course, and the videos for both of them look absolutely insane.

6-C is too easy I think (it feels out of place with the others). 7-C is a real bear, by far the hardest in my opinion. 8-C is pretty tough but my favorite C-side.

[blueblimp]

For 7C, it helped me a lot to have done it on 50% speed first. There are a lot of places where you need certain positions that aren't obvious (like there's a certain bumper that you have to hit as high as possible, and some spikes you have to get so close that it looks like you should die). Once I knew all those, it wasn't _too_ crazy to get it done on full speed. I actually feel like to be consistent on it is easier than some of the other hardest C-sides (3C, 8C) because there isn't any reactive or timing aspect.

The last bit I cleared in the game (on full speed) is actually 8B. There are a few early screens that IMO are harder than most of the C-side content.

[Mic Qsenoch]

For 7C, it helped me a lot to have done it on 50% speed first. There are a lot of places where you need certain positions that aren't obvious (like there's a certain bumper that you have to hit as high as possible, and some spikes you have to get so close that it looks like you should die). Once I knew all those, it wasn't _too_ crazy to get it done on full speed. I actually feel like to be consistent on it is easier than some of the other hardest C-sides (3C, 8C) because there isn't any reactive or timing aspect.

I just couldn't get through the last bramble patch to save my life, the rest was not super terrible. I found diagonal dashes to be pretty much the hardest move for me to execute correctly. Either my thumbs can't do it or some combination of my thumbs + the controller.

[blueblimp]

For 7C, it helped me a lot to have done it on 50% speed first. There are a lot of places where you need certain positions that aren't obvious (like there's a certain bumper that you have to hit as high as possible, and some spikes you have to get so close that it looks like you should die). Once I knew all those, it wasn't _too_ crazy to get it done on full speed. I actually feel like to be consistent on it is easier than some of the other hardest C-sides (3C, 8C) because there isn't any reactive or timing aspect.

I just couldn't get through the last bramble patch to save my life, the rest was not super terrible. I found diagonal dashes to be pretty much the hardest move for me to execute correctly. Either my thumbs can't do it or some combination of my thumbs + the controller.

Having issues with diagonals seems like a common input issue. I played on a DualShock 4, which has separate buttons for each direction, and I never had any major issues with dash direction, so I think that helped. I imagine it would be pretty frustrating to play with analog stick or single-piece d-pad.

[sitnaltax]

Holy cow.

After 871 deaths, I finally finished 7C. That was amazingly difficult--and even harder than it looks on the videos. So many of the moves require you to be in an surprisingly exact position--hitting the pistons, dodging or falling through the crystals, tagging the tiny wall kick. The beginning of the final crystal maze almost had me stumped before I realized you have to be near the top of the horizontal corridor in addition to near the left of the vertical corridor.

To make things even crazier--after I talked to the old woman, I set down the controller for a second. When I picked it up again, I jostled the button and dashed off the cliff. Somehow I had enough composure to dash back, climb up, and recover the heart. But man, I would have been tilted if I had come so far to die at the final cliff for nothing.

8C remains and then... it's over...

[blueblimp]

To make things even crazier--after I talked to the old woman, I set down the controller for a second. When I picked it up again, I jostled the button and dashed off the cliff. Somehow I had enough composure to dash back, climb up, and recover the heart. But man, I would have been tilted if I had come so far to die at the final cliff for nothing.

There's actually a checkpoint once you reach the area with the woman.

[sitnaltax]

There's actually a checkpoint once you reach the area with the woman.

That's very gracious of them. Out of curiosity, how did you know that? Did you die/see someone else die, or is there a way to examine the levels?

I was also somehow terrified that I would botch the dash to collect the heart and have to do the whole thing all over again. Realistically, I had practiced enough that it would have been only a 15-20 minute setback (if there hadn't been a checkpoint), but again, demoralizing and infuriating.

[blueblimp]

Out of curiosity, how did you know that? Did you die/see someone else die, or is there a way to examine the levels?

I don't remember for sure, but I think I learned it from the internet at first. Later, when practicing it for consistency, it turns out that the checkpoint actually makes things slightly awkward, because you can't use "retry" to go back to the beginning of the whole room. So it's necessary to die before reaching the final platform, if you want to continue practicing after a successful playthrough.

[sitnaltax]

Update: I finished 8C! Total deaths throughout the whole game were 9,937. Thanks to everyone for the advice, support, and encouragement. That was one heck of a game and I think I'm happy to be putting it down with a feeling of completion.

8C ended up being much more manageable than 7C. There are a few tricky timings but compared to 7C, you don't have to judge and time based on your motion as much

[markusin]

Out of curiosity, are you guys playing this with keyboard or gamepad/controller?

[blueblimp]

I played on a DualShock 4, which has separate buttons for each direction, and I never had any major issues with dash direction, so I think that helped. I imagine it would be pretty frustrating to play with analog stick or single-piece d-pad.

Keyboard is probably objectively a little better.

[sitnaltax]

Out of curiosity, are you guys playing this with keyboard or gamepad/controller?

I played on an XBox 360 controller, using the thumbstick. Midway through the B-levels, I started wishing I had gone with keyboard instead, but I didn't want to take the time to relearn the muscle memory. As others have suggested, the difficult part about a controller is the diagonal input.

[sudgy]

Having finally gotten this game recently, this is all that is going through my head now:

[Titandrake]

About 2 weeks ago, I decided to finally try Celeste (after buying it when it was on sale back in June.)

I am now hopelessly addicted. I got all the strawberries, got some of the red crystal hearts, and am on 7B for the B-sides.

[Titandrake]

About 14k deaths later, I beat the final C-side. I had so many issues with the final jump of 8C for some reason. I'm pretty sure I died there 10 times before getting the timing right.

[sudgy]

About 14k deaths later, I beat the final C-side. I had so many issues with the final jump of 8C for some reason. I'm pretty sure I died there 10 times before getting the timing right.

The first time I got there, I got the heart but died while the game was slowing down and it didn't count

[popsofctown]

I bought this today can I join cool kids club

[sitnaltax]

About 14k deaths later, I beat the final C-side. I had so many issues with the final jump of 8C for some reason. I'm pretty sure I died there 10 times before getting the timing right.

(belated) Congratulations!

Dying at that last moment must have been maddening. It's frustrating how 8C puts that at the very end despite not using that standing superjump move anywhere else in the game. Somehow, despite not being great at the move, I lucked into getting it right the first time I got to that section of 8C.

[sitnaltax]

I bought this today can I join cool kids club

Welcome! It's quite a journey, but a surprisingly compelling one.

[popsofctown]

Is there a good dpad controller for celeste? I keep getting diagonals I don't want using the stick.

[LastFootnote]

Is there a good dpad controller for celeste? I keep getting diagonals I don't want using the stick.

Well, there's the official Pro Controller, which is more of a traditional controller, and does have a d-pad. EDIT: I should mention it costs $70, which is a tough pill to swallow. I ended up asking for it as basically my only Christmas gift request. I'm very glad I have it now that I do.

There's also a third-party left-Joy-Con knockoff which replaces the four d-pad buttons with a d-pad. It has some uh problems, though. I think it can only be used in handheld mode? And maybe it eats the battery like crazy? I can't quite recall. I think Tim Rogers made a video about it, hold on.

https://kotaku.com/my-25-favorite-switch-games-to-play-with-a-d-pad-1828387213

[blueblimp]

Is there a good dpad controller for celeste? I keep getting diagonals I don't want using the stick.

Which platform?

[LastFootnote]

Is there a good dpad controller for celeste? I keep getting diagonals I don't want using the stick.

Which platform?

Ah, that’s a good question. I had assumed Switch.

[popsofctown]

Yep Switch.  I might take the 70$ hit on that, actually.  I'm sure I'll need a Dpad again.

[sudgy]

...am I the only the one that likes the Joycon's directional buttons?  I can be so much more precise with them than with a d-pad.  With a d-pad, I constantly hit diagonal directions when I don't want to.

[popsofctown]

It's only certain floors where I gradually shift from upright, to right, to downleft, for different purposes during the floor, and then by the time I'm at that down left I need say, an up left dash.  But from all the gradual shifting, I've loft a sense of what angle the control stick is actually at, I'd have to look down to know.  3D games give you a constant indicator because the character moves differently for each of those tiny degrees, but based on observing your character in Celeste you only know a 45 degree range of possible positions the stick might be in from looking up at the screen.

The Nintendo 64 controller had notches at each 45 degree location which largely obviated this, but the well for the Switch stick is totally circular.

When I need a dash or certain direction from a dead stop, I don't have much if any trouble.

OH you said directional buttons. Like the x y b a.  Yeah I think those are probably very precise.  They're just stiff and tough to me.  I have a feeling if I fought the learning curve on them I'd be rewarded and yet I'm not going to.

[LastFootnote]

...am I the only the one that likes the Joycon's directional buttons?  I can be so much more precise with them than with a d-pad.  With a d-pad, I constantly hit diagonal directions when I don't want to.

I don't hate them, at least for most games. Sometimes it's nice to have the d-pad, though.

[popsofctown]

Spoil me this, are there any prize levels besides heart of the mountain and it's pretty low cost of 4 hearts?

I'm not sure I'm in enough to 100% this.

[blueblimp]

Spoil me this, are there any prize levels besides heart of the mountain and it's pretty low cost of 4 hearts?

I'm not sure I'm in enough to 100% this.

Each chapter has an associated B side (harder version comparable in length to the A side) and C side (hardest version, but short). Each B side is unlocked by finding a cassette in the corresponding A side. The C sides unlock once you have completed all B sides.

The quality of the B & C sides is generally very high so I would very much recommend at least trying them. (Start with 1B or 2B, as they are easier than the rest.)

[Titandrake]

Spoil me this, are there any prize levels besides heart of the mountain and it's pretty low cost of 4 hearts?

I'm not sure I'm in enough to 100% this.

Each chapter has an associated B side (harder version comparable in length to the A side) and C side (hardest version, but short). Each B side is unlocked by finding a cassette in the corresponding A side. The C sides unlock once you have completed all B sides.

The quality of the B & C sides is generally very high so I would very much recommend at least trying them. (Start with 1B or 2B, as they are easier than the rest.)

Adding to this, the B-side to heart of the mountain requires getting every other heart in the game. (Well, you get hearts for the C-sides, but they won't be unlocked at that point.)

1B starts at a bit under Chapter 7 A-side in difficulty and then it ramps up from there.

If you can beat all the B-sides, you can beat all the C-sides, as long as you have the patience.

[popsofctown]

I gave up when some strawberries were too hard to find, hurt my completionist soul

[sudgy]

I gave up when some strawberries were too hard to find, hurt my completionist soul

I gave up trying to get some of the golden strawberries, hurt my completionist soul

[LastFootnote]

Has anybody played TowerFall? It just came out for the Switch recently, but it's been around since 2013 (originally released on the Ouya, if you can believe it). I'm asking here since it's the first game by the guy/company that made Celeste, and it has a similar aesthetic. And in the Switch version you can actually play as Madeline or Badeline.

Unlike Celeste, it's a local (not online) multiplayer game, with both competitive and co-op modes. I played a bunch of it last night with a couple of friends and it's a real blast. Lots of laughs. Each player controls an archer that (normally) starts with 3 arrows. One hit (normally) kills another player, so it's very fast-paced. But once you shoot your arrows, you have to retrieve them. Or you can retrieve other players' arrows. And there are quite a few random power-ups and different types of special arrows, etc.

I don't recommend it as a single-player experience, but if you can get a few people together in the same room, it's well worth $20. It supports up to 6 players on the Switch.

[blueblimp]

I gave up when some strawberries were too hard to find, hurt my completionist soul

Are you aware that, on the world map, you can view which subchapters are missing berries and in which order? Also, that the pause screen shows which berries you've collected (ever, and in the current play) and their order? I found these two sources of info very useful when collecting the last few berries.

[popsofctown]

The former, I knew, it is still so hard, I rammed my face into every pixel I swear.

[dz]

is celeste still relevant?

Anyway there's now a Chapter 9. It took hours for me to finish it, but I loved it. Of course, the music is awesome. (Also if you though 7C was crazy long and difficult, wait until you reach the final screen.)

[popsofctown]

I'm guessing that's a thing I can't access since I couldn't find all the berries.

When a puzzle or scavenger hunt gets hard enough I need repeated use of an external guide I'm kind of out, even though I loved everything else about Celeste

[GendoIkari]

Have it on the Switch, but still haven't played it yet. Other stuff to finish first.

[Mic Qsenoch]

I liked Chapter 9 a lot. I didn't pay good attention to the wavedashing guide and ended up doing everything with what is apparently called hyperdashing, made some screens way harder than they should have been. Didn't realize it until I saw some stuff online.

[blueblimp]

I'm guessing that's a thing I can't access since I couldn't find all the berries.

Chapter 9 is a free DLC that just came out. At least for the parts I've played through so far, it doesn't require berries. (Maybe you need to finish Chapter 8 to see it?)

I haven't played through all of it yet (because I'm really bad at advanced techniques) but it's pretty good. It's essentially a B-side. I enjoyed the B-sides, although I prefer A-sides. (I like having a relatively easy main path with optional berry challenges.)

[dz]

I'm guessing that's a thing I can't access since I couldn't find all the berries.

Chapter 9 is a free DLC that just came out. At least for the parts I've played through so far, it doesn't require berries. (Maybe you need to finish Chapter 8 to see it?)

I haven't played through all of it yet (because I'm really bad at advanced techniques) but it's pretty good. It's essentially a B-side. I enjoyed the B-sides, although I prefer A-sides. (I like having a relatively easy main path with optional berry challenges.)

To unlock it you just need to finish Core (which requires 4 hearts). About midway through it'll require more hearts to continue. Also you should be able to get to that point without any advanced movement.

[blueblimp]

I'm glad for assist mode. I finished it by using 50% speed for the parts after the fake ending. That makes the execution difficulty more comparable with the planning difficulty, for me.

[pacovf]

So I got Celeste for free through the Epic Store some time ago, and finally decided to play it this week. Beat chapters 1-8 (~130 strawberries, ~1800 deaths), tried chapter 9 but it quickly looked like it would require more skill than I have (then I checked the whole thing on youtube, and there's zero chance I beat that).

I enjoyed chapters 1-6, except the windy parts which I loathed. Chapters 7-8 started shifting the difficulty towards more input precision and longer stretches without checkpoints, and I honestly kinda had to force myself to go through them just because I really wanted to see the conclusion to the story. Maybe I would have enjoyed the gameplay more if RL was a bit less stressful for me right now. I loved the story though.

[sudgy]

So I got Celeste for free through the Epic Store some time ago, and finally decided to play it this week. Beat chapters 1-8 (~130 strawberries, ~1800 deaths), tried chapter 9 but it quickly looked like it would require more skill than I have (then I checked the whole thing on youtube, and there's zero chance I beat that).

You are required to beat several (or maybe all?) of the B and C sides before you can beat chapter 9.

[dz]

So I got Celeste for free through the Epic Store some time ago, and finally decided to play it this week. Beat chapters 1-8 (~130 strawberries, ~1800 deaths), tried chapter 9 but it quickly looked like it would require more skill than I have (then I checked the whole thing on youtube, and there's zero chance I beat that).

You are required to beat several (or maybe all?) of the B and C sides before you can beat chapter 9.

Except if you watch some speedruns, you will realize you can just dash through the heart door (and it's not even that hard to do).

[pacovf]

I stopped quite a few screens before the door. I was in one of the first screens with the blowfish, I was supposed to dash into it, boost myself across some spikes, then dash back to that fish so it would blow me into another and so on. I kept not being able to bounce hard enough from dashing into the fish to clear the spikes without using the dash I needed to go back to the fish afterwards. After feeling rather frustrated with some of the screens in Core (and beating them through sheer persistence rather than skill), I thought it was a good spot to end.

[blueblimp]

I think the average quality of B-sides and C-sides is higher than the average quality of Chapter 9. I wouldn't bother playing Chapter 9 until trying some of those. In particular, 1B and 2B aren't super hard. (Might actually be easier than Core A... I don't remember.)

[Cuzz]

I stopped quite a few screens before the door. I was in one of the first screens with the blowfish, I was supposed to dash into it, boost myself across some spikes, then dash back to that fish so it would blow me into another and so on. I kept not being able to bounce hard enough from dashing into the fish to clear the spikes without using the dash I needed to go back to the fish afterwards. After feeling rather frustrated with some of the screens in Core (and beating them through sheer persistence rather than skill), I thought it was a good spot to end.

This is the exact one I’m stuck on as well. The great thing about this game is that each screen is two challenges: the puzzle of figuring out what to do to beat it, and then executing the platforming moves. In this one though it seems pretty obvious what to do, but very hard to pull off.

[dz]

I stopped quite a few screens before the door. I was in one of the first screens with the blowfish, I was supposed to dash into it, boost myself across some spikes, then dash back to that fish so it would blow me into another and so on. I kept not being able to bounce hard enough from dashing into the fish to clear the spikes without using the dash I needed to go back to the fish afterwards. After feeling rather frustrated with some of the screens in Core (and beating them through sheer persistence rather than skill), I thought it was a good spot to end.

This is the exact one I’m stuck on as well. The great thing about this game is that each screen is two challenges: the puzzle of figuring out what to do to beat it, and then executing the platforming moves. In this one though it seems pretty obvious what to do, but very hard to pull off.

Are you holding jump after bouncing on the pufferfish? I dash into it, and the momentum from the dash, plus holding jump allows me to get over the spikes.

[pacovf]

I figured after the fact that was what I was doing wrong (Core has the same mechanic with the moving ice blocks), but by that time I had already watched a playthrough of chapter 9. I didn’t really want to go back to it, when my capacity to execute complex strings of jumps / dashes and so on was already proving inadequate.

I may go back to check 1B and 2B, if their difficulty is more in line with early 7A than late 8A.

[GendoIkari]

Just started this a few days ago on Switch. A lot of fun so far!

[GendoIkari]

...am I the only the one that likes the Joycon's directional buttons?  I can be so much more precise with them than with a d-pad.  With a d-pad, I constantly hit diagonal directions when I don't want to.

I find difficult Mario Maker levels better with the Joycon's d-pad buttons compared to a normal d-pad. Unfortunately the rest of the things about the Joycons are much worse. I'm using the joystick on the pro controller for Celeste so far and it feels pretty good.

[GendoIkari]

I beat it!

Man what a fun game. I'm going to at least 100% the A sides; probably more but depends on how much of a grind the B sides are. I didn't pass up or give up on any strawberries I found; but of course missed some from not finding them. But given the information the in-game level select screen shows; I think I should be able to find them all without a guide.

[GendoIkari]

I beat level 8! Huge jump in difficulty from the rest of the game.

Still going back through all the levels to get 100%. I got all strawberries, hearts, and tapes from 1-4 so far. Looking for the heart in level 5. Also beat 1B; will do the other B-sides later.

[GendoIkari]

Got all strawberries in the main game (levels 1-7)! Got all A-side hearts except level 6. Perhaps someone can give me a small hint so that I can avoid having to look it up...

So I found a hidden area in the section that contains the b-side tape; a room with some sort of puzzle in it. My guess is that this puzzle leads to both the tape and the heart, but certainly at least one of them. 6 diamonds of various colors; 4 signs with arrow icons on them; the 4th one is missing the icons. And a weird statue.

Without giving away much of anything...

1) Is this room showing a hint for something that is somewhere else in the level? Or is it something I just need to do in this room to unlock something; like the heart with the birds in level 1?

2) Do I need any information from outside of this room to solve the puzzle. or is everything I need right there? Is it relevant that the 6 diamonds seem to be basically the same colors as the birds in level 1?

Thanks!

[dz]

Got all strawberries in the main game (levels 1-7)! Got all A-side hearts except level 5. Perhaps someone can give me a small hint so that I can avoid having to look it up...

You know how in Depths (the 2nd checkpoint in Mirror Temple), you need to get a key to get past a lock? There's a way to get past it while keeping the key. You then use the key on another lock (which is before the giant mirror).

So I found a hidden area in the section that contains the b-side tape; a room with some sort of puzzle in it. My guess is that this puzzle leads to both the tape and the heart, but certainly at least one of them. 6 diamonds of various colors; 4 signs with arrow icons on them; the 4th one is missing the icons. And a weird statue.

This puzzle rewards you with the heart, and is easily the most complex heart puzzle in the game. The cassette is close to the beginning of Hollows, but not in that puzzle room. The statue is just background decoration.

1) Is this room showing a hint for something that is somewhere else in the level? Or is it something I just need to do in this room to unlock something; like the heart with the birds in level 1?

2) Do I need any information from outside of this room to solve the puzzle. or is everything I need right there? Is it relevant that the 6 diamonds seem to be basically the same colors as the birds in level 1?

The puzzle is related to the birds in Forsaken City, yes. You may also notice that when you dash in this room, there's a chime.

As for the 4th one with no symbols, I'll just say this: combine the 2nd and 3rd symbols.

Last hint: the name of the chapter is "Reflection."

If you give up, here's the solution:
For the first sign, you repeat the original order from the birds: up, left, down-right, up-right, left, up-left.
The second sign wants you to invert left and right. So now you do: up, right, down-left, up-left, right, up-right.
The third sign wants you to invert up and down. So now you do: down, left, up-right, down-right, left, down-left.
Like I said, the fourth sign combines the previous two. So you invert both up/down and left/right. So now you do: down, right, up-left, down-left, right, down-right.

[GendoIkari]

Got all strawberries in the main game (levels 1-7)! Got all A-side hearts except level 5. Perhaps someone can give me a small hint so that I can avoid having to look it up...

You know how in Depths (the 2nd checkpoint in Mirror Temple), you need to get a key to get past a lock? There's a way to get past it while keeping the key. You then use the key on another lock (which is before the giant mirror).

This part of your post confused me for a while until I realized that I accidentally said level 5 when I meant level 6. I did find the heart in the Forbidden Temple. I actually found the way to skip the key door first; and for a while thought it was nothing more than a shortcut to make it so that you don’t need the key. Later I realized I could both get the key and skip the door.

Will go back to the puzzle room in Reflection with your hints in mind; thanks.

[GendoIkari]

Got it, thanks! I ended up peaking at the first few words in the spoiler tag. I'm glad I did, because I don't think I would have ever made that connection. Disappointed in that puzzle, especially considering how much I enjoyed the level 1 puzzle.

I just don't think it's a very good puzzle to give you a subtle reminder of a puzzle you had to solve before, and expect you to get "hey, I should just do the exact same solution again that I did before!" I mean, once I got how to light up the first torch; the rest of the puzzle was fine; figuring out to reverse the directions appropriately. But figuring out how to light up the first torch was just not a good puzzle, in my opinion. Especially since it was unsolvable without either remembering which bird color corresponded to which direction, remembering the actual code, going back to the other level look at the birds again, or just looking it up.

Also found the tape with no problem; surprised I didn't see it before.

So all that's left is B-sides; 2 strawberries in level 8, and level 9.

[dz]

So all that's left is B-sides; 2 strawberries in level 8, and level 9.

Once you beat Core B (which requires 15 hearts to enter, so you're forced to do the previous B-sides first), you unlock C sides for the first 8 chapters. Don't worry, they're very short.

Finishing Core B also unlocks Golden Strawberries, which want you to beat a chapter without dying once. The early chapters aren't too bad, but the later chapters are really hard. Unless you have a ton of time, I recommend not doing them.

If you beat Forsaken City A without dashing, you'll get an extra strawberry. If you don't know what you're doing though, it's basically impossible. So just look it up if you're curious.

If you want some details about Farewell:
-About halfway through, there's a heart gate (like the one in Core) that wants 15 hearts. So just do the B sides first. (C sides aren't necessary.)
-Despite what the journal says, there is 1 strawberry in this level (not including the golden one).
-There's no B or C side, it's just one long chapter. And boy is it a long one.
-There will be a lot of difficult puzzles and movements, but you already knew that; it's Celeste.

[GendoIkari]

So all that's left is B-sides; 2 strawberries in level 8, and level 9.

Once you beat Core B (which requires 15 hearts to enter, so you're forced to do the previous B-sides first), you unlock C sides for the first 8 chapters. Don't worry, they're very short.

Finishing Core B also unlocks Golden Strawberries, which want you to beat a chapter without dying once. The early chapters aren't too bad, but the later chapters are really hard. Unless you have a ton of time, I recommend not doing them.

I did know about these; just didn't mention it. I'll at least check out the C-sides; dunno if I'll beat them or not; depends on how hard is hard. Don't want to spend hours grinding out single screens. Definitely not planning to do golden strawberries; does not sound fun.

If you beat Forsaken City A without dashing, you'll get an extra strawberry. If you don't know what you're doing though, it's basically impossible. So just look it up if you're curious.

That's cool; didn't know about that. Kind of reminds me of the "swordless Zelda 1" challenge.

If you want some details about Farewell:
-About halfway through, there's a heart gate (like the one in Core) that wants 15 hearts. So just do the B sides first. (C sides aren't necessary.)
-Despite what the journal says, there is 1 strawberry in this level (not including the golden one).
-There's no B or C side, it's just one long chapter. And boy is it a long one.
-There will be a lot of difficult puzzles and movements, but you already knew that; it's Celeste.

Didn't know any of this either; good to know.

[GendoIkari]

Progress update! Finished all regular strawberries, all B-sides, first 3 C-sides, and 1A golden strawberry.

8B was pretty insane, as expected. 5B and 6B were too. I think 7B was a little easier. 3C wasn't so bad, 2C took me forever.

I won't be getting any other golden strawberries. Even though the A-sides wouldn't be that hard, and the C-sides wouldn't be much harder than just beating the C-sides, the fact that each attempt takes so much longer makes it seem like not at all fun. One of the best things about Celeste is that even though it can be super hard, you can try a very hard room over and over very quickly. To have to restart something that took you a couple minutes or longer to do just because you slipped up sounds bad.

I'll do chapter 9 after I do 4C-8C.

[GendoIkari]

Ok 7C, what the heck even was that? Just finished it, a few days after I started it. A bit over 6.5 hours, a bit over 2,100 deaths. Basically all on the last room of 7C.

For context, each of the other C-sides were under an hour and around 500 deaths or fewer.

On to 8B 8C! I'm scared.

[Wizard_Amul]

Ok 7C, what the heck even was that? Just finished it, a few days after I started it. A bit over 6.5 hours, a bit over 2,100 deaths. Basically all on the last room of 7C.

For context, each of the other C-sides were under an hour and around 500 deaths or fewer.

On to 8B! I'm scared.

Yeah, 7C is one of the hardest levels. If only there was a checkpoint in the middle of that last room. I assume you mean 8C, since I thought you already beat 8B...the last room of 8C will probably give you some trouble; I think it's about as hard as 7C, but the fact that it's open makes it feel less forgiving. I think you've already heard a bit about chapter 9, but just expect it to be really long and really hard, harder than 7C--not every part of Chapter 9 is 7C hard, but the parts that are hard are very hard. I almost gave up a couple times throughout but managed to make it through.

[GendoIkari]

Ok 7C, what the heck even was that? Just finished it, a few days after I started it. A bit over 6.5 hours, a bit over 2,100 deaths. Basically all on the last room of 7C.

For context, each of the other C-sides were under an hour and around 500 deaths or fewer.

On to 8B! I'm scared.

Yeah, 7C is one of the hardest levels. If only there was a checkpoint in the middle of that last room. I assume you mean 8C, since I thought you already beat 8B...the last room of 8C will probably give you some trouble; I think it's about as hard as 7C, but the fact that it's open makes it feel less forgiving. I think you've already heard a bit about chapter 9, but just expect it to be really long and really hard, harder than 7C--not every part of Chapter 9 is 7C hard, but the parts that are hard are very hard. I almost gave up a couple times throughout but managed to make it through.

Yeah I meant 8C. I had only heard that level 9 was very long; not that some parts of it were as hard as C levels.

You're saying the openness of 8C makes it feel less forgiving? I would have thought that would make it more forgiving.

So I peaked into 8C already; got through the first room. I do love how the game teaches you a brand new movement mechanic this late into the game; something you could have been doing all along if you'd wanted.

[Wizard_Amul]

Ok 7C, what the heck even was that? Just finished it, a few days after I started it. A bit over 6.5 hours, a bit over 2,100 deaths. Basically all on the last room of 7C.

For context, each of the other C-sides were under an hour and around 500 deaths or fewer.

On to 8B! I'm scared.

Yeah, 7C is one of the hardest levels. If only there was a checkpoint in the middle of that last room. I assume you mean 8C, since I thought you already beat 8B...the last room of 8C will probably give you some trouble; I think it's about as hard as 7C, but the fact that it's open makes it feel less forgiving. I think you've already heard a bit about chapter 9, but just expect it to be really long and really hard, harder than 7C--not every part of Chapter 9 is 7C hard, but the parts that are hard are very hard. I almost gave up a couple times throughout but managed to make it through.

Yeah I meant 8C. I had only heard that level 9 was very long; not that some parts of it were as hard as C levels.

You're saying the openness of 8C makes it feel less forgiving? I would have thought that would make it more forgiving.

So I peaked into 8C already; got through the first room. I do love how the game teaches you a brand new movement mechanic this late into the game; something you could have been doing all along if you'd wanted.

Oops, I did mean more forgiving.

[GendoIkari]

Last night I spend 5 straight hours grinding through 8C; after having been previously stuck on the second room. Beat second room and spend most of that time in the third room. Finally gave up around 1:30 AM. I'd gotten to the final jump; the double hyper-dash. Got to where I could get there pretty consistently; but couldn't get past that final jump.

Picked it back up today. Got to the last jump on my first attempt and failed. 5 minutes later got back to the final jump, and beat it! So psyched.

the last room of 8C will probably give you some trouble; I think it's about as hard as 7C, but the fact that it's open makes it feel less forgiving.

As a whole I think it was easier than 7C, though room 2 was also really hard while in 7C only the last room gave me trouble. You're definitely right that it's more open/forgiving; but that changed the type of difficulty in what I felt was a lot less fun for me. 7C is so precise that you have to play the same way every time to make progress; so it eventually all came down to muscle memory; you just do the same inputs every time. But in 8C, both second and third rooms, things like the bumpers, clouds, and the bouncing fire blocks make it so that it's just a little different every time you play; a very slight change in either position or timing for bouncing causes you to move differently such that the next move has to be done differently to compensate. So rather than pure muscle memory and fast/precise button pushing; it's more a test of reflexes to quickly adjust to the things that are happening.

Ended up with about 1300 deaths and a little under 6 hours.

All that's left is level 9!

[GendoIkari]

So here's something annoying... I noticed that my log book didn't show a completion time or death count for 8B. I figured that it might be because I'd left the level and started again from a checkpoint at some point. So before I started level 9, I decided to beat it again from the start. It wasn't too bad; a lot fewer deaths than the first time I beat it. But the log book still didn't show it as completed! I moved onto level 9 anyway.

I then did some research and found that the missing log book is probably because I'd gotten the golden strawberry when starting the level. When I died, it counts it as a "new run" starting from the golden strawberry room, which for 8B isn't actually the first room. I also wasn't sure but knew I might have done the same thing in level 9... so I quit level 9, went back and beat 8B again, and got the log book entry. Then back to level 9, avoiding the golden strawberry.

Level 9 is fun so far. It does a worse job at having new things introduced in such a way that you can figure out how to use them without needing to do hard tricks with them. For example, nothing really teaches you that if you dash up into a jellyfish, you'll get a big height boost from it. Without knowing that; I spent quite a while in a room where you need to do that, trying everything I could think of without having any idea what I needed to do.

But still, the new mechanics are fun. I really liked the maze/puzzle room where you have to get to the electric box to turn off the electricity and then find 5 keys to proceed. I think I'm at the second or third checkpoint; not sure.

[Wizard_Amul]

Yeah, I liked the room with the 5 keys to proceed, too. There are at least a couple mechanics in chapter 9 that you're never told about, one of which I ended up looking up after frustratingly trying one room for a couple hours...I'm glad I looked it up, because I wouldn't have figured it out. There is a certain way to dash off of a moving object that you just have to figure out somehow without ever having been told how to do it before--it was so hard to even see you needed a new move, since it almost looks like you can do it another way that you have done before. I'm surprised I found it quickly and obvious spoilers, but it's this room at 17:43:

[dz]

Yeah, I liked the room with the 5 keys to proceed, too. There are at least a couple mechanics in chapter 9 that you're never told about, one of which I ended up looking up after frustratingly trying one room for a couple hours...I'm glad I looked it up, because I wouldn't have figured it out. There is a certain way to dash off of a moving object that you just have to figure out somehow without ever having been told how to do it before--it was so hard to even see you needed a new move, since it almost looks like you can do it another way that you have done before. I'm surprised I found it quickly and obvious spoilers, but it's this room at 17:43:

You mean the advanced wall jump (or whatever that move is called)? They teach it to you in Summit B. That's why there's a 15 heart gate to force casual players to go do Summit B first.

But for sure, that room is quite hard. That room was actually the first preview of Farewell that the developers posted (on Twitter).

I think I'm at the second or third checkpoint; not sure.

If you're past the electric maze, then you should be at the 3rd checkpoint (the one where the music changes). (And remember, there's a strawberry somewhere in Farewell. Good luck!)

[Wizard_Amul]

Yeah, I liked the room with the 5 keys to proceed, too. There are at least a couple mechanics in chapter 9 that you're never told about, one of which I ended up looking up after frustratingly trying one room for a couple hours...I'm glad I looked it up, because I wouldn't have figured it out. There is a certain way to dash off of a moving object that you just have to figure out somehow without ever having been told how to do it before--it was so hard to even see you needed a new move, since it almost looks like you can do it another way that you have done before. I'm surprised I found it quickly and obvious spoilers, but it's this room at 17:43:

You mean the advanced wall jump (or whatever that move is called)? They teach it to you in Summit B. That's why there's a 15 heart gate to force casual players to go do Summit B first.

But for sure, that room is quite hard. That room was actually the first preview of Farewell that the developers posted (on Twitter).

Yeah, it is the advanced wall jump, but it's having to perform it after the new dash downward right and then double jump move that's new --I didn't realize doing it in that sequence would get you that height. Trying to use the new chapter 9 far jump move alone and then jumping up and to the right gets you so close to making it over that first jump that it could be plausible you're just not wall jumping at the right spot. That was my confusion at least--I was so close with that move that I thought that was it but that I just wasn't doing it right. Maybe other people didn't have that tunnel vision there, but because of how close the incorrect move is, I definitely did.

[GendoIkari]

Wavedashing is really great! I knew about it before from seeing speedrunners and such; but had no idea that it would become an actual required core mechanic. It's way easier than I thought it would be from what I'd heard about it. Chaining together multiple in a row can be tricky, but just doing one, I usually get it first try. It's just so much fun; gives a new sense of freedom like when you first get to do a double dash.

There were a couple times that I checked out parts of that video to see a room right after finishing it; to see if what I did was actually right. There's a couple weird ones, such as the room starting at 12:20... the moving block isn't necessary at all, you can ignore it and get through just with the jellyfish. Same with the refresh diamond at 17:08... just go straight from the second mechanism to the third.

[GendoIkari]

DONE!

Chapter 9 took me 13:44 and 5146 deaths.

I also got Moon Berry! Went back to get it after beating the level the normal way. I did look at a video to see where it was. Moon Berry took a little over 6 hours and about 1000 deaths.

Grand total is 24,123 deaths and 83:27:56 of playtime.

Tried a little to get dashless chapter 1; but it's too much. It will remain undone, along with all of the Golden Strawberries except for 1A.

Really excellent game! My hands super hurt now.

[Wizard_Amul]

Congratulations! As someone who really likes precision platformers, I really loved the game, too. I didn't go for any Golden Strawberries (maybe the very first one?) but did get the Moon Berry after finding out that it existed...it surprisingly ended up being not too difficult for me after practicing that last room of Chapter 9 a lot already.

[GendoIkari]

I got the most random urge to play more Celeste. Decided against starting a new file and going through the whole thing; just decided to play Farewell through non-stop. Didn't quite make it non-stop, but only took 1 overnight break.

New record for it: 7:08 and 2805 deaths. Shame that I didn't quite cut either time or deaths in half from my initial playthrough; but almost. It is amazing how ever after almost 4 months of not touching it, a lot of things just feel easier. Final room didn't take all that long at all (it's probably the room I had the most practice on). Just a couple of the other rooms really took up huge amounts of my time. I wish it actually showed you a breakdown of time per room.

[blueblimp]

They've released a PICO-8 sequel to Celeste Classic: https://mattmakesgames.itch.io/celeste-classic-2. It's worth a play.

[pacovf]

Ah yes, the well-known adage that al games are made better with a hookshot. Hence why I expect great things from Silksong too.

[LaLight]

Heyy, sorry for necroing, but I need to share! Yesterday I have gotten my first B-Side Golden Strawberry (2B)! I've already taken all the C-Sides Goldens and 1A, 2A and 4A (moat 3A, I hate it)

My ultimate goal is of course getting all of them, but for now I try to get to 200 berries (for now I have 187)

[LaLight]

Funnily enough this is my second save file and I have 8220 deaths, while on the first one where I only have beaten the game without any goldens I have 11710

[GendoIkari]

Congrats! Golden Strawberries was the only thing I didn't do in the game. Not because it's too hard, but because it simply requires too much time/dedication to be able to replay long sections that you already are good at over and over; really breaking one of the core things that makes the game so great nad playable despite being super difficult. I got the golden for 1A, but that's all.

[LaLight]

Congrats! Golden Strawberries was the only thing I didn't do in the game. Not because it's too hard, but because it simply requires too much time/dedication to be able to replay long sections that you already are good at over and over; really breaking one of the core things that makes the game so great nad playable despite being super difficult. I got the golden for 1A, but that's all.

I wouldn't say these are sections I'm good at, sometimes I lucked out a room or more on the level. Getting Goldens incentivizes me to understand how the game works so I understand how to beat every room rather than luck out. Especially for example in Farewell.

Also yeah, got Moon Berry yesterday.

[GendoIkari]

Congrats! Golden Strawberries was the only thing I didn't do in the game. Not because it's too hard, but because it simply requires too much time/dedication to be able to replay long sections that you already are good at over and over; really breaking one of the core things that makes the game so great nad playable despite being super difficult. I got the golden for 1A, but that's all.

I wouldn't say these are sections I'm good at, sometimes I lucked out a room or more on the level. Getting Goldens incentivizes me to understand how the game works so I understand how to beat every room rather than luck out. Especially for example in Farewell.

Also yeah, got Moon Berry yesterday.

Loved the Moon Berry. I never would have found it on my own without a guide, but even so getting it was quite challenging and rewarding. I've played through 100% (except Goldens) once more since posting about it way back when.

[Titandrake]

If you haven't played the Strawberry Jam mod yet, it's very good, I recommend it a lot.

It's split into 5 sections, and roughly, Beginner lobby = as hard as A-sides and a few B-sides, Intermediate lobby = as hard as Farewell, and then it scales up from there. It's not expected that you finish the whole thing but even Beginner + Intermediate was a lot of content for me.