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[iguanaiguana]

It's good to think about claims for a moment here. We have 3 PRs flipped, and 2 claimed. Do you think scum skips the opportunity for a PR fakeclaim here? I think it is unlikely that all scum would claim VT, and part of that is thinking that schadd prefers his games light on PRs.

This quote is so, so strange. Like, there are 7 people left, with 5 claimed VTs. There is no abstract “scum claims PR” anymore. There is explicitly just pps and Ghacob. Are you trying to call one of them scum here? Which one? Are you avoiding saying so to protect your partner(s)? It’s just such a weirdly hypothetical post at this point.

Yeah it was like "I hope we mislynch Ghacob but I will bus my partner if I have to."

[Cuzz]

I had a very real reason that I'd still rather wait until it's finished to discuss

Haven't forgotten this.

The order was essentially in ascending order of confidence in what they *ought* to have been claiming, in an attempt to a. give those who had not said (what I thought of as) alignment indicative things as little time as possible to communicate with their partner before claiming something b. to lure my biggest scumread at the time, faust into a false sense of security in regards to how I viewed him, leading to him not thinking as carefully how he claimed. Cuzz was at the bottom with me as *surely*, my perfectly accurate method for deducing whether one was claiming VT or PR (now 1/3 I think?), pinged Cuzz as claiming VT, no doubt about it,
as emphasized in this post:

Yo big apologies for not bein' able to speak near the end of yesterday
My thought words would have been something along the lines of
"The datwsan lynch I'm..fine with, but I fear they may be town. Beyond their own actions, I find it extremely unlikely that, (still under the assumption that every claimed pr is "confirmed" town) there are no scum of [Lalight, Robz, Cuzz]. I think I'd prefer a lalight lynch, but I'm not sure how much I trust [iguana, faust]"
In retrospect, I should have contributed to pushing lalight, if for no other reason than "not 'probably town'"

[wrong things]

I guess that mathematically means I should give you a townread then?

I think I agree with you? Assuming I understand the things you're saying and you're saying what I'd like you to be

vote: PPS

@iguana, thoughts of a massclaim are reasonable, but what say you to faust's response?

in regards to this post:

hey really sorry I got really far behind on this game and am trying to catch up, but I really really do not see why faust is out of the gate immediately voting for two claimed PRs when we've had two mislynches and are in a not so great spot.

I never did get around to my planned full reread of faust but he has generally been rubbing me the wrong for much of the game. town!faust is a slick scumhunter and digs for evidence and builds cases on people and pushes them and I just do not see much of that this game. combined with the above it's time for a vote: faust

PPE: 1 and boy is it a doozy

I don’t understand the part that leads you to have total confidence that I was a VT

Secondly, why was my post above in which I express suspicion on faust summarized so pithily by you as “[wrong things]”

[Cuzz]

It's good to think about claims for a moment here. We have 3 PRs flipped, and 2 claimed. Do you think scum skips the opportunity for a PR fakeclaim here? I think it is unlikely that all scum would claim VT, and part of that is thinking that schadd prefers his games light on PRs.

This quote is so, so strange. Like, there are 7 people left, with 5 claimed VTs. There is no abstract “scum claims PR” anymore. There is explicitly just pps and Ghacob. Are you trying to call one of them scum here? Which one? Are you avoiding saying so to protect your partner(s)? It’s just such a weirdly hypothetical post at this point.

Yeah it was like "I hope we mislynch Ghacob but I will bus my partner if I have to."

I’m starting to buy this.

Very interested in what mcmc has to say about pps

[pingpongsam]

Very interested in what mcmc has to say about pps

I’m not imagining that he will just admit defeat but he could surprise me and save us the wasted pages of denial and excuses.

[Cuzz]

Very interested in what mcmc has to say about pps

I’m not imagining that he will just admit defeat but he could surprise me and save us the wasted pages of denial and excuses.

Hey maybe! That’d be cool!

In the meantime, would you care to give like an impromptu, off the cuff detailed summary of your thoughts on faust this game?

Ghacob, wanna get in on that too while we’re at it?

[faust]

Well I actually did not expect to live but apparently not claiming out my remaining shots yesterday paid off and made TWM more attractive. I figured faust was surely scum and I was preferable to learn something I didn’t think I knew rather than confirm what I think I know. While it is possible Robz and mcmc are partners I think probably not and I’d much rather get a scum result than town so I was so torn on who to target I literally flipped a coin.

Vote: mcmc

Curious that this isn't a result on me, because that's what I would expect from scum!PPS.

Oh and I’m sure you meant like a town result right?

Err, no? I thought PPS would try to go frame me. Ironically that seems unnecessary.

[faust]

It's good to think about claims for a moment here. We have 3 PRs flipped, and 2 claimed. Do you think scum skips the opportunity for a PR fakeclaim here? I think it is unlikely that all scum would claim VT, and part of that is thinking that schadd prefers his games light on PRs.

This quote is so, so strange. Like, there are 7 people left, with 5 claimed VTs. There is no abstract “scum claims PR” anymore. There is explicitly just pps and Ghacob. Are you trying to call one of them scum here? Which one? Are you avoiding saying so to protect your partner(s)? It’s just such a weirdly hypothetical post at this point.

Yeah it was like "I hope we mislynch Ghacob but I will bus my partner if I have to."

I think I've made it clear that I townread Ghacob.

[faust]

I mean I feel like this is a really bad situation. iguana probably won't back down from his read on me because of prior experience, but if iguana ends up voting for me then scum can just seal the game. Noone who suspects me managed to post any reason beyond "this post that happened 5 minutes ago that I'm going to twist around to look scummy". Instead, the laziest people in the game decided that they're going to lynch me because why not? Which is basically the attitude that brings down town so often on f.ds.

[faust]

It's good to think about claims for a moment here. We have 3 PRs flipped, and 2 claimed. Do you think scum skips the opportunity for a PR fakeclaim here? I think it is unlikely that all scum would claim VT, and part of that is thinking that schadd prefers his games light on PRs.

This quote is so, so strange. Like, there are 7 people left, with 5 claimed VTs. There is no abstract “scum claims PR” anymore. There is explicitly just pps and Ghacob. Are you trying to call one of them scum here? Which one? Are you avoiding saying so to protect your partner(s)? It’s just such a weirdly hypothetical post at this point.

Look, I can make it explicit for you, not that I have not clamored this very thing for the past 2 days: PPS is scum.

[faust]

And Cuzz is probably his partner.

[Cuzz]

Noone who suspects me managed to post any reason...

And Cuzz is probably his partner.

lol

[iguanaiguana]

So PPS expects us to believe a lot of things!

1) He expects us to believe that either there are 5 town PRs, the maximum allowed in the game, or that Ghacob and McMcsalot are partners. Even if Ghacob is scum, he expects us to believe that the setup includes a full jailkeeper, a one shot cop, an odd night cop, and an  even night watcher.


2)  He expects us to believe that scum decided they didn't need to kill him at night.

3) He is claiming a result, so he's also claiming that scum didn't block him, or investigate him in order to determine that he would get a shot redirect him.

So, first of all, it's hard to believe that schadd would put all of that investigation in the game at all. Even more than that though, it's hard for me to believe that schadd would put a jailkeep and three investigative roles in the game and not give scum some pretty decent powers themselves to mitigate those town powers. So then the fact that he is alive and got a result, if he is town, is very awkward and assumes some pretty bad play/luck on scum's part. It means that scum didn't/couldn't investigate him to see he was an odd night cop they would need to kill, and that they didn't/couldn't roleblock him last night to stop him from copping, and that they didn't/couldn't redirect him onto a town player to make sure he would get a town result, and that they didn't just outright kill him, a claimed cop. 

[iguanaiguana]

I mean I feel like this is a really bad situation. iguana probably won't back down from his read on me because of prior experience, but if iguana ends up voting for me then scum can just seal the game. Noone who suspects me managed to post any reason beyond "this post that happened 5 minutes ago that I'm going to twist around to look scummy". Instead, the laziest people in the game decided that they're going to lynch me because why not? Which is basically the attitude that brings down town so often on f.ds.

First, fuck you.

[iguanaiguana]

Second, I am in the process of doing and showing the work, I just haven't done it yet. I'm at the front desk of a climbing gym right now trying to write this up and juggle the little kids who want rental shoes at the same time. I can't just produce all of my thoughts magically in a few seconds.

[Robz888]

So, first of all, it's hard to believe that schadd would put all of that investigation in the game at all. Even more than that though, it's hard for me to believe that schadd would put a jailkeep and three investigative roles in the game and not give scum some pretty decent powers themselves to mitigate those town powers. So then the fact that he is alive and got a result, if he is town, is very awkward and assumes some pretty bad play/luck on scum's part. It means that scum didn't/couldn't investigate him to see he was an odd night cop they would need to kill, and that they didn't/couldn't roleblock him last night to stop him from copping, and that they didn't/couldn't redirect him onto a town player to make sure he would get a town result, and that they didn't just outright kill him, a claimed cop.

Disagree! Mods like watching people use powers, they often put in more powers than town expects, they often do things that seem balanced but in hindsight aren't. (To be sure, I can't say yet whether I think this was balanced.)

[Robz888]

I'd say I'm like 65% believing PPS's claim.

[Robz888]

Mcmc has long seemed somehow off to me. He couldn't continue his awesome Day 1 performance through subsequent days. And also, was it that awesome, we mislynched, and then did so again and again.

Mcmc, faust, Cuzz is my scum team, with an iguana an outside possibility to replace Cuzz or faust. PPS being scum instead of mcmc IS a possibility, and I think I most confident about Cuzz of the three. This might be one of those weird cases where we want to not lynch either PPS or mcmc.

[iguanaiguana]

So, first of all, it's hard to believe that schadd would put all of that investigation in the game at all. Even more than that though, it's hard for me to believe that schadd would put a jailkeep and three investigative roles in the game and not give scum some pretty decent powers themselves to mitigate those town powers. So then the fact that he is alive and got a result, if he is town, is very awkward and assumes some pretty bad play/luck on scum's part. It means that scum didn't/couldn't investigate him to see he was an odd night cop they would need to kill, and that they didn't/couldn't roleblock him last night to stop him from copping, and that they didn't/couldn't redirect him onto a town player to make sure he would get a town result, and that they didn't just outright kill him, a claimed cop.

Disagree! Mods like watching people use powers, they often put in more powers than town expects, they often do things that seem balanced but in hindsight aren't. (To be sure, I can't say yet whether I think this was balanced.)

It's not just that we have a bunch of claimed PRs. It's also that PPS has claimed to have gotten two results without any interference at all. Despite the fact that he claimed his role D2. So schadd gave town 5 PRs but scum is just a bunch of goons?

[iguanaiguana]

Mcmc has long seemed somehow off to me. He couldn't continue his awesome Day 1 performance through subsequent days. And also, was it that awesome, we mislynched, and then did so again and again.

Mcmc, faust, Cuzz is my scum team, with an iguana an outside possibility to replace Cuzz or faust. PPS being scum instead of mcmc IS a possibility, and I think I most confident about Cuzz of the three. This might be one of those weird cases where we want to not lynch either PPS or mcmc.

What about McMc, Faust, PPS?

[iguanaiguana]

Faust and PPS voted for each other on both D2 and D3, and both of them found reasons to end up on another (town) person by the end of the day both days. They are partners. Look at their voting patterns.

[Robz888]

Mcmc has long seemed somehow off to me. He couldn't continue his awesome Day 1 performance through subsequent days. And also, was it that awesome, we mislynched, and then did so again and again.

Mcmc, faust, Cuzz is my scum team, with an iguana an outside possibility to replace Cuzz or faust. PPS being scum instead of mcmc IS a possibility, and I think I most confident about Cuzz of the three. This might be one of those weird cases where we want to not lynch either PPS or mcmc.

What about McMc, Faust, PPS?

I agree that faust and PPS have some interactions that seem partner-y, like they are trying too hard to replicate their normal antagonism. And you're right that PPS and mcmc could actually both be scum. My problem with this team is it leaves out Cuzz, who is my gut-read most likely scum.

[faust]

I mean I feel like this is a really bad situation. iguana probably won't back down from his read on me because of prior experience, but if iguana ends up voting for me then scum can just seal the game. Noone who suspects me managed to post any reason beyond "this post that happened 5 minutes ago that I'm going to twist around to look scummy". Instead, the laziest people in the game decided that they're going to lynch me because why not? Which is basically the attitude that brings down town so often on f.ds.

First, fuck you.

Was actually referring to Robz and Cuzz. Sorry if I offended you.

[faust]

So, first of all, it's hard to believe that schadd would put all of that investigation in the game at all. Even more than that though, it's hard for me to believe that schadd would put a jailkeep and three investigative roles in the game and not give scum some pretty decent powers themselves to mitigate those town powers. So then the fact that he is alive and got a result, if he is town, is very awkward and assumes some pretty bad play/luck on scum's part. It means that scum didn't/couldn't investigate him to see he was an odd night cop they would need to kill, and that they didn't/couldn't roleblock him last night to stop him from copping, and that they didn't/couldn't redirect him onto a town player to make sure he would get a town result, and that they didn't just outright kill him, a claimed cop.

Disagree! Mods like watching people use powers, they often put in more powers than town expects, they often do things that seem balanced but in hindsight aren't. (To be sure, I can't say yet whether I think this was balanced.)

As I understand, this setup has been reviewed by a senior mafiascum mod.

[Robz888]

I cannot be shamed!

[faust]

Faust and PPS voted for each other on both D2 and D3, and both of them found reasons to end up on another (town) person by the end of the day both days. They are partners. Look at their voting patterns.

Is it now suddenly my fault that noone wanted to lynch PPS, and people wanted to lynch town instead...?

D2 I stopped voting PPS because after all, he was a claimed investigative PR and there was a chance that scum would just kill him off. D3 if I remember correctly was you crusading for a LaLight lynch and stopping any other wagon building dead in its tracks.