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Author Topic: M113: sufjan stevens (OH THE WORLD IS A MESS)  (Read 192940 times)

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faust

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1200 on: March 07, 2018, 02:18:46 am »

so iguana's little ruse appears to have been essentially a complete waste of time and not necessarily alignment indicative at all.

i still think iguana is probtown though.
Why do you think iguana is town then?
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faust

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1201 on: March 07, 2018, 02:20:38 am »

Ironic that I tried to keep iguana alive by casting doubt on his PR-ness.
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pingpongsam

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1202 on: March 07, 2018, 08:17:45 am »

Told y’all iguana math wasn’t a thing. I was suspicious and anxious to see the claim because I thought if he was scum there was some fake claim coming. Now I’m just confounded.

Vote: LaLight
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iguanaiguana

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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #1204 on: March 07, 2018, 08:55:16 am »

Ok how about this.

I have a story about my thought process related to my role that I think makes me towny. Can't share though since I'd have to claim. I will share at mass claim time or L-1 with intent to hammer.

And also the fact that this exists should make y'all townread me because I am town and had unique thoughts that I would not have had as scum and I can prove that whenever necessary.
Why could you not have had this thought as mafia. Or rather what makes the unicorn something that would be assigned to town rather than mafia

To me, the lyrics in the song perfectly describe a vanilla town.

"For I have seen others in the uniform of a unicorn just like me. We are legions wide, and we take no sides.." - Lots of VTs in the game, but we don't know who each other are. Therefore we don't know what is the correct side to take and have to figure it out.

Also, from the next stanza: "You may dress in the human uniform, child, but I know you're just like me." is like how we all look the same outwardly because we don't know each other's alignments but we have to figure out who the others are and find each other.

"We are masters of Mystique." -- just very fitting to a mafia game.

"I play all night with my magical kite" - IE: no night action.

"People say I don't exist." "I make no apology." - More lines about how everyone doubts and distrusts the VT but they have to prove that they are real and not lying.

"I'm a construct of your mind" - WIFOM, how people get in your heads.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1205 on: March 07, 2018, 08:59:36 am »

Iguana thing makes sense and I agree with pps I think scum!guana is more likely to fake claim a pr here.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1206 on: March 07, 2018, 09:04:07 am »

Moreover I am still not sure why on just ghacob's request we have begun massclaiming in an order he didn't even put himself on it.

Robz - VT
Lalight - VT
guana - VT
Mcmc - not claimed
Faust - not claimed
Ghacob - not claimed

TWM - targetable pr
PPS - cop
Galz - even night watcher
Space - one shot cop

Iguana's claim lets scum know for sure he isn't a pr which sucks, it ruins what iguana tried to do and like I said before we got nothing from it. Iguana I think is likely town but I thought that before the claim. If me Faust or Ghacob claim a pr what in the world does that really do for POE. I hate that we have done this for the record.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

iguanaiguana

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1207 on: March 07, 2018, 09:04:39 am »

Could I have thought about this as mafia? Yes, technically, I could have. The VT role PM was publicly displayed. So I could have thought about what would my connection to VT be if I were a VT, and come up with all this exact same nonsense.

But I feel like the depth to which I've connected to my role through my connection to one of my favorite songs by my second-favorite-musical-artist [Aside: I like Okkervil River better; I've thought about modding an Okkervil River mafia.] shows that I am actually flavorfully identifying with the dumb role that I got and that it's a real thing in my heart that exists, not just something I made up.

Therefore, it can make me towny, but obviously it can't prove that I am town. What I can prove is that I had all of these thoughts. I guess technically I can't prove that I wouldn't have had them as scum. So I dunno looking back at my original statement it's a little too strongly worded when it says: "I can prove that [I had unique town-only thoughts] whenever necessary." If I could rewrite, I'd amend that a little bit.

Also, I am just kinda now realizing that this is all funny because I didn't even get a song, or a role name, but I just assigned one to myself because I really really wanted to get one.

Ok, I'm done unless people want more of my songwriting analysis ;) 8)
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1208 on: March 07, 2018, 09:06:35 am »

It irks me to no end that faust and ghacob are currently voting for the claimed cop, ghacob has pushed us to claim pr/vt which could let scum know don't worry just kill twm the other claimed pr and were all out or hey leave twm alone because his role hasn't done much harm yet and kill this pr we had no clue about.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1209 on: March 07, 2018, 09:08:53 am »

We should have a PR/VT massclaim. As much fun as it is making and hearing softclaims all day, I fear they're only helping scum and harm town at this point. I think we'll be earning some very good POE by doing so.
No that's just worse than a full massclaim, and we shouldn't do a full massclaim either.

Faust are you still on board for not doing this. Because the way I see it its still a bad idea for me and you to claim if we are a pr unless as I said a million times someone is a pr and has relevant results. You know like let pr's claim when appropriate and stop worrying about what poe it might give us.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

iguanaiguana

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1210 on: March 07, 2018, 09:10:38 am »

We should have a PR/VT massclaim. As much fun as it is making and hearing softclaims all day, I fear they're only helping scum and harm town at this point. I think we'll be earning some very good POE by doing so.
No that's just worse than a full massclaim, and we shouldn't do a full massclaim either.

Faust are you still on board for not doing this. Because the way I see it its still a bad idea for me and you to claim if we are a pr unless as I said a million times someone is a pr and has relevant results. You know like let pr's claim when appropriate and stop worrying about what poe it might give us.

I actually still feel this way too FwhateverIW
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1211 on: March 07, 2018, 09:11:21 am »

Yo big apologies for not bein' able to speak near the end of yesterday
My thought words would have been something along the lines of
"The datwsan lynch I'm..fine with, but I fear they may be town. Beyond their own actions, I find it extremely unlikely that, (still under the assumption that every claimed pr is "confirmed" town) there are no scum of [Lalight, Robz, Cuzz]. I think I'd prefer a lalight lynch, but I'm not sure how much I trust [iguana, faust]"
In retrospect, I should have contributed to pushing lalight, if for no other reason than "not 'probably town'"

[wrong things]
I guess that mathematically means I should give you a townread then?

I think I agree with you? Assuming I understand the things you're saying and you're saying what I'd like you to be

vote: PPS

@iguana, thoughts of a massclaim are reasonable, but what say you to faust's response?

Why does this post say "man that datswan lynch was bad wish I had been around more to push the lalight lynch. Anyway about that claimed cop!"
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1212 on: March 07, 2018, 09:29:33 am »

Ghacob has 13 posts. Why is he being townread by others?

He came in late day 2 so those posts are tough to read into but its a hello, followed by a reads list which I actually dont love its targeted at rereading non claimed pr's/space which is fine since the pr calims/space were sort of off the table. But he says datswan was a scum read but its probably just annoyance at typing quirks, he says faust is a scumread but mostly because of pps's argument, he has a vague townread on me because teproc did, cuzz/lalight/robz he doesn't give any read on but just something they have done and that he needs to reread lalight. Super full of hedge and doesn't divulge much at all. His last post is asking twm if he got a result on cuzz, which is rolefishy. Then he's gone and never votes. Pretty weak day all together.

Day 3, 10 posts.
First is what I quoted and apology for not being around and wishing he pushed lalight then a vote for pps because he agrees with something faust said. So apparently faust is scummy because of reasons pps gave and pps is scummy because of reasons faust gave.
Second he prods lalight, me robz and cuzz, that fine we weren't contributing but I think thats an easy thing to do as scum to look townie, I do it all the time.
Third is that we should pr/vt claim which as has been pointed out multiple times is just worse than a massclaim which is debatably bad.
Fourth is a defense of vt/pr claim because it reduces scums ability to hide behind vagueness, which it doesn't it allows them to hide in plain sight because they know whats what.
Fifth is a nothing post
Sixth is a reup on the fact that we should massclaim
Seventh is a defense of massclaim since it helps with poe, which again it doesn't it at most reveals a pr that probably doesn't have relevant results so we won't be able to rule them out as a lynch.
Eight is straight up enforcing a pr/vt claim order that leaves himself off he leaves cuzz off two which is super weird. Like why should cuzz not claim pr/vt because twm targeted him with something???? Also he says "most of us" have softclaimed when only twm and pps have.
Nine is a hedge that he doesnt have a reason for his order...
Ten is a prod to iguana to claim.

Thats it. Ghacob has hedged reads and forced people to claim repeatedly against faust and my better reasoning, in an order he chose which hew hedged that he didn't have a real reason for. I still want to lynch lalight but man ghacob is scummy.

Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1213 on: March 07, 2018, 09:30:11 am »

I think the only thing I know at this point is that Ghacob is town.
WHhy?
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1214 on: March 07, 2018, 09:31:46 am »

The only people I'm feeling real townie on at this point are iguaniguana and Ghacob.

I lean town on TWM and mcmc.

I could lynch faust, LL, Cuzz for sure.

Why town on ghacob?
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1215 on: March 07, 2018, 09:35:21 am »

Okay so its really just robz and twm claiming ghacob as super town which is actually nice because I think it is highly unlikely Ghacob, TWM, and Robz could possibly be the scum team and they are all people I find relative levels of scummy.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 2)
« Reply #1216 on: March 07, 2018, 09:44:39 am »

Post Count Part 2

172 - 86 - The_Wine_Merchant (1)
157 - 119 - faust (2)
157 - 84 - iguanaiguana (2)
89 - 56 - mcmcsalot (5)
83 - 75 - Cuzz (2)
75 - 44 - pingpongsam (2)
65 - 30 - Robz888 (2)
64 - 54 - LaLight (1)
39 - 27 - Teproc/Ghacob (1)
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

iguanaiguana

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1217 on: March 07, 2018, 10:01:55 am »

My strongest townread is TWM.
Logged
Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 1)
« Reply #1218 on: March 07, 2018, 10:21:41 am »

Lalight full reread time:

Early on he votes for both space and datswan and defends sirclem by saying he doesn't like lynching newbies and doesn't find clem scummy.

vote: Teproc should be good. But I can return to SA. If this is not happening, I can join, like, any wagon to get lynch through
Interesting he votes teproc with this post when noone is voting teproc and then when asked why he finds teproc scummy he says nothing, dissapears for a long time and says.
I can’t really say anything to defend myself, this is D1, I don’t want to claim. But i think scum is on me for sure, easy mislynch as it seems
His wagon at the time is Clem, teproc, cuzz, iguana.
He goes on to continue to defend clem and then woah
vote: sc is it deadline already
Clem is currently at 4 votes, while space and galz are at 2, he could easily support a non clem lynch.
TWM actually unvotes clem right after dropping clem back to 4, a lalight unvote could easily move to a different main wagon.
TWM and iguana move back to clem as deadline approaches and galz hammers for clarity.

Day 2 lalight votes faust out the gate railing at him for pushing the clem lynch and claiming he was right about clem being obvi town.
there is a little back and forth with faust then this
I beliebe TWM is Town and I am afraid faust will orchestrate this lynch as well and we will lynch another town. Not changing my vote in forever
TWM wagon is Faust, space, iguana, cuzz. He goes on later to explain his townread of TWM is because he thinks twm is more cold blodded when scum and more emotional as town so a meta defense not a things he has done townie in the game defense which is easier for scum to generate.

Next goes v/la and comes back saying he reread and it makes him want to lynch datswan, who was at 3, twm/robz/cuzz he leaves long time scumread faust to go there, faust, pps, and twm are only other wagon ish at 2 votes a piece. His reason to vote datswan is datswan was asking twice why he was scummy, and datswan put lalight in his town reads and lalight claims he would lynch himself based off his posts this is a scum trait I think. He also says he is wary of robz and thats it.

Day 3 says PPS is either scum who killed space to confirm his pr or town and scum killed space to frame pps as scummy looking. He votes faust, says iguana is town and agrees we should massclaim. Then there is this:
if you want to lynch me, well, fine, but let's massclaim first. Or, as it has been said, we will face LyLo tomorrow with no trust into any claim
Which is strange, lalight earlier said he wouldn't claim when he was getting some pressure, then he says if we lynch him at least massclaim first, then he claims vt. SO lalight is going to have to give me a really good explaination for why massclaim is good. Explicitly explain why we trust claims today more then tomorrow. It's not like he had a claim to make so he must be just looking at the "greater good". Really I just think he thinks he is going down here and might as well push for that massclaim before he goes out.


All in lalight has done little to no case making, his biggest actions were the defense of clem which he was very instrumental in helping lynch and a tunnel of faust for starting and pushing the clem wagon followed by being a middling vote on the datswan wagon with a poor reason and finally the participation and pushing of the claims.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

pingpongsam

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1219 on: March 07, 2018, 10:23:35 am »

My strongest townread is TWM.

Same and mcmc is not far behind. TWM has been way more involved, though, and I personally have grilled him a few times and every time I felt like he was town playing a town game.

Would Not Lynch:
PPS
TWM
mcmc

Prefer not to lynch:
iguana

That leaves (in no particular order):
LaLight
faust
Robz
cuzz
Ghacob

If my reads are good then all 3 scum are in my 5 person lynch pool. That my town reads want a LL lynch is notable.
Logged
You are the brashest scum player on f.ds.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1220 on: March 07, 2018, 10:27:12 am »

Told y’all iguana math wasn’t a thing. I was suspicious and anxious to see the claim because I thought if he was scum there was some fake claim coming. Now I’m just confounded.

Vote: LaLight

This was L-2 by the way: TWM, mcmc, PPS
9 alive 5 to lynch. Iguana has posted intent to hammer lalight as he has pushed lalight all game so we can essentially treat lalight as L-1
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

iguanaiguana

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1221 on: March 07, 2018, 10:28:26 am »

Yes, someone nice should please let me have the hammer.
Logged
Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

pingpongsam

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1222 on: March 07, 2018, 10:37:43 am »

Yes, someone nice should please let me have the hammer.

I already did, didn't I?
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Ghacob

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1223 on: March 07, 2018, 10:40:11 am »

First of all, I use they/them pronouns, not he/him.

Second of all, thank you for your softclaim of VT.

I don't like most of your words but they mostly don't mean anything anyway
discussion of the "massclaim" I'm still waiting for after the completion of

For clarification, my intention was
6. Cuzz
7. Ghacob

and
6. Ghacob
7. Cuzz

were equally acceptable to me

PPE: 4ish?
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Cuzz

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Re: M113: sufjan stevens (day 3)
« Reply #1224 on: March 07, 2018, 10:46:26 am »

so iguana's little ruse appears to have been essentially a complete waste of time and not necessarily alignment indicative at all.

i still think iguana is probtown though.
Why do you think iguana is town then?

just giving off them townvibes, ya know? posting a lot of casual, conversational, thinking-out-loud types of remarks that seem to come from a genuine town mindset.

getting a similar feel from TWM as well. 
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