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[MiX]

I'm saying pps' my buddy, for better or for worse.

... that didn't really clarify it for me!

Are you saying that pps is your buddy somehow? In what sense? He clearly doesn't seem to think he is.

I'm pretty sure he's town, and if I was scum he would be a good candidate for my scumbuddy.

I'm comfortable enough with you arguing that you're town and that you think PPS is town.

The flipside of that is just really weird for you to be arguing, though. I mean, I get that from everyone else's point of view, if you flip scum then PPS is more likely also to flip scum, but if you're telling the truth, this is impossible, so why waste everyone's time trying to state things this way?

Especially why do that when there's a very real possibility that if you're town you have no idea of PPS's alignment, so he very easily could just be some flavour of scum and you're just misleading people extra-hard if you get lynched and flip town? It seems like you're just trying to control everyone's thinking in a way that I can't see being good for town on average.

I was pointing at holes in joth's logic. Saying my read on pps is a side effect.

On the other hand, I don't see how you pushing this matters at all, but I guess I'm biased.

[pingpongsam]

Mobile no quotes.

I’m tiring of this. I don’t know if MiX thinks I am dense or everyone else is. Yeah, I know a skitter can potentially be town aligned. In fact, I believe Glooble is exactly that. My contention is why would we need more than say, one of those? Also, the fact we have one is why, exactly, having a fake claim is so good. Apparently there are 2 such rebel skitter leaders to pull from. Why are they both active this game? My understanding is one came after the other in the timeline, they were not joining forces. They can’t both be leading at the same time. I’m not expecting or requesting answers to these questions. I’m saying questions rightfully arise. I’m saying if you are fake claiming these are all the points to lean on to support your claim. I’m saying at this point even if you are full claiming your true identity we still have good reasons to question that. Of course your fake claim should include the all important word Rebellion. What about the generations of skitters before or not part of the rebellion who did bad things to town? Those are the ones I am. Invented about.

We’ve beaten this horse to pieces. I am sure you will continue to expound upon your saintly, unassailable claim and how idiotic I must be to not accept it unquestionably. I, however, am done explaining why we’d all have to be idiots to not remain skeptical.

Meanwhile we have far better options to look into.

[pingpongsam]

A point I will acquiesce and which softens my stance considerably is that Glooble seconds the position that knowing which player is which skitter is potentially disastrous. I don’t think you could garner that from fake claim information. In order for this to be nefarious you and Glooble would be faction partners and I just don’t want to believe that for now.

[faust]

Mobile no quotes.

I’m tiring of this. I don’t know if MiX thinks I am dense or everyone else is. Yeah, I know a skitter can potentially be town aligned. In fact, I believe Glooble is exactly that. My contention is why would we need more than say, one of those? Also, the fact we have one is why, exactly, having a fake claim is so good. Apparently there are 2 such rebel skitter leaders to pull from. Why are they both active this game? My understanding is one came after the other in the timeline, they were not joining forces. They can’t both be leading at the same time. I’m not expecting or requesting answers to these questions. I’m saying questions rightfully arise. I’m saying if you are fake claiming these are all the points to lean on to support your claim. I’m saying at this point even if you are full claiming your true identity we still have good reasons to question that. Of course your fake claim should include the all important word Rebellion. What about the generations of skitters before or not part of the rebellion who did bad things to town? Those are the ones I am. Invented about.

We’ve beaten this horse to pieces. I am sure you will continue to expound upon your saintly, unassailable claim and how idiotic I must be to not accept it unquestionably. I, however, am done explaining why we’d all have to be idiots to not remain skeptical.

Meanwhile we have far better options to look into.

I will say that while I don't know for certain how ashersky designs his games, I don't think trying to determine alignment from flavor is useful. Saying something like "there should be only one town skitter" implies that there was a deliberate decision by the mod which flavors are going to be real and which will be fakeclaims. I know I try to avoid this whenever possible. When making a themed game, I write down a list of possible flavors and then randomize which are going to be real. This limits the amount of outguessing the mod games happening. ashersky is an experienced mod, I imagine he has similar methods for this.

[ashersky]

Dear players, a mod error was unknowingly uncovered a few days ago, and I've been contemplating how to (and whether to) correct it.  Luckily, it's a public error, so it's easily rectified, and in the end I've decided it's worth fixing.

My longstanding plurality lynch policy for days with ten or more players does not apply to this game.

That decision was made well before the game started, but I failed to remove it from my standard rules post.  A player brought it up in thread, which reminded me of that fact.  It was just an overlooked post edit.

I will not be commenting further.  My apologies for the disruption.

[Glooble]

Well, that changes things. We need to find a lynch.

I'm going back to

vote: EFHW

for now I guess though I don't love it. I might like Galz a little more. I need to ISO him and I don't have time to do that while I'm at work today.

[jotheonah]

Well, that changes things. We need to find a lynch.

Do we, though?

1. We have an even number of players
2. We may have multiple NK-ing factions
3. We very likely have information-gathering night roles

It seems worthwhile to at least consider no lynch. I think all the components are there for a situation where it might make sense.

[faust]

Well, that changes things. We need to find a lynch.

Do we, though?

1. We have an even number of players
2. We may have multiple NK-ing factions
3. We very likely have information-gathering night roles

It seems worthwhile to at least consider no lynch. I think all the components are there for a situation where it might make sense.

Your points 1 and 2 contradict each other. If we have multiple NKs, then having an even number doesn't matter.

We have exposed some of town's knowledge today. I think that there is enough information to make a better-than-random lynch choice. If we exposed the information just to go on no-lynching, then we helped scum.

Also, where was this excitement for no lynch when you announced intent to hammer?

[faust]

Anyone want to start a wagon on joth? I can't right now, but seriously the guy is scummy and needs some heat. Let's make today EFHW vs joth. That would make me happy.

[jotheonah]

Well, that changes things. We need to find a lynch.

Do we, though?

1. We have an even number of players
2. We may have multiple NK-ing factions
3. We very likely have information-gathering night roles

It seems worthwhile to at least consider no lynch. I think all the components are there for a situation where it might make sense.

Your points 1 and 2 contradict each other. If we have multiple NKs, then having an even number doesn't matter.

We have exposed some of town's knowledge today. I think that there is enough information to make a better-than-random lynch choice. If we exposed the information just to go on no-lynching, then we helped scum.

Also, where was this excitement for no lynch when you announced intent to hammer?

Where is the excitement now? I haven't even voted for no lynch. I was just surprised no one's brought it up yet and didn't see the harm in broaching the subject. And that Glooble said "We need to find a lynch" which I consider to be kind of a scummy mindset (we don't need to find a lynch, we need to lynch scum -- big difference).

Anyway, your comments here are weaksauce because scum never ever argues for no lynch. Town argues about how good it is for scum, but scum would much rather have a townie lynch on day 1. They're easy enough to engineer and they move them toward their win con.

[jotheonah]

I can't right now

You're the second person to say something weird like this, which suggests you have a role-mandated restriction governing how/when you can vote. I wonder if that's something that ash gives to town, or to scum? Given that town's weapon is their vote, seems less bastardy for scum...

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.11:

MiX (2): WCD, shraeye
2.7 (2): gkrieg, Awaclus
gkrieg13 (1): 2.7
EFHW (6): faust, MiX, PPS, ADK, Galzria, Glooble
Galzria (1) EFHW
PPS (1): joth
WCD (1): pubby

Not Voting (2): Datswan, Space

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.  Day 1 ends at 6:00 a.m. on July 31.

[faust]

Anyway, your comments here are weaksauce because scum never ever argues for no lynch. Town argues about how good it is for scum, but scum would much rather have a townie lynch on day 1. They're easy enough to engineer and they move them toward their win con.

I'm pretty sure I remember a game in which scum!shraeye argued for no lynch.

[faust]

I can't right now

You're the second person to say something weird like this, which suggests you have a role-mandated restriction governing how/when you can vote. I wonder if that's something that ash gives to town, or to scum? Given that town's weapon is their vote, seems less bastardy for scum...

What? No. I can't right now because I need to keep the EFHW wagon going.

[Galzria]

Anyone want to start a wagon on joth? I can't right now, but seriously the guy is scummy and needs some heat. Let's make today EFHW vs joth. That would make me happy.

While I believe Joth is misguided in his thoughts on no lynch, I actually town read him pretty heavily. I’ve played too many games with Scum!joth that demonstrate his ability to play far more subtlety than he has here, whereas as Town he’s much more vocal and “devil-may-care” when it comes to what he says and how others read him.

[faust]

Anyone want to start a wagon on joth? I can't right now, but seriously the guy is scummy and needs some heat. Let's make today EFHW vs joth. That would make me happy.

While I believe Joth is misguided in his thoughts on no lynch, I actually town read him pretty heavily. I’ve played too many games with Scum!joth that demonstrate his ability to play far more subtlety than he has here, whereas as Town he’s much more vocal and “devil-may-care” when it comes to what he says and how others read him.

Well, he feels the same to me as in M120.

[jotheonah]

whatever. it was just a thought. I guess I can sheep vote: EFHW here.

I'm just not a fan of the day 1s where we push like 4 people to L1 and they all claim and then scum knows way too much and we end up lynching town anyway. to me, that's worse than a sensible no lynch.

[jotheonah]

whereas as Town he’s much more vocal and “devil-may-care” when it comes to what he says and how others read him.

this is the meta I crave

[Glooble]

Sorry if this question is completely random, but am I remembering correctly that Galz and DatSwan know each other irl?

[Galzria]

Sorry if this question is completely random, but am I remembering correctly that Galz and DatSwan know each other irl?

Correct

[Glooble]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

Are you trying to draw out unnecessary useful claims reactions & interactions?

vote: galz

Yes.

So it was on purpose?

I did not realize that it wasn’t L-1, no. However the intent-to-hammer (not the actual act of hammering) was meant to draw reactions - something I stand by. That is to say, had he been L-1, I would’ve done the same.

I still think MiX is scummy, that he’s played scummy, that his voting pattern is scummy & that his mischaracterization of play to create suspicion is scummy.

However I don’t believe he’s the best lynch for today, and look forward to using his wagon - and who reacted to it and in what ways - as analysis in the future.

Eh, I'm overthinking this.

vote: MiX

That's L-1.

This is town!Glooble, but please.  Think a bit more.  Where is MiX scum?  Point me to some of his scummy posts.  I just don't see it.

Or are you voting him based on meta?  because that is a terrible case.

MiX is scum for shot-gunning votes and suspicion around, constantly and without fail OMGUS’ing, and mid-representing multiple people to paint them as scum.

These two posts from Galz, taken together, strike me as odd. It's not a contradiction per se, but if he really thinks MiX is probably scum, why say the intent to hammer was "to get reactions"? Thinking MiX is scum is reason enough. Also, the most common "reaction" you get from Intent to Hammer is a claim, but later Galz seems pretty emphatic that MiX shouldn'tclaim. So he's saying he did this for the reactions, but then saying one of the most likely reactions is something he specifically doesn't want?

Sorry if this question is completely random, but am I remembering correctly that Galz and DatSwan know each other irl?

Correct

Okay thanks. There was something I found a little scummy about your Swan case but with that context its not scummy.

[gkrieg13]

sorry all, trying to catch up from being gone and kind of failing atm. Will not be able to get to this. Still like my e vote, but will switch to get a lynch.

[Glooble]

vote: Galzria

I don't think I like this EFHW wagon very much. I mostly joined it because I strongly townread faust right now and I trust his analysis. But I don't actually understand his reasoning. E has consistently defended MiX. So what? We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

[Galzria]

If I'm not mistaken mix is at L-2, not L-1. Awaclus switched to galz and then back to mix

Party-Pooper.

Are you trying to draw out unnecessary useful claims reactions & interactions?

vote: galz

Yes.

So it was on purpose?

I did not realize that it wasn’t L-1, no. However the intent-to-hammer (not the actual act of hammering) was meant to draw reactions - something I stand by. That is to say, had he been L-1, I would’ve done the same.

I still think MiX is scummy, that he’s played scummy, that his voting pattern is scummy & that his mischaracterization of play to create suspicion is scummy.

However I don’t believe he’s the best lynch for today, and look forward to using his wagon - and who reacted to it and in what ways - as analysis in the future.

Eh, I'm overthinking this.

vote: MiX

That's L-1.

This is town!Glooble, but please.  Think a bit more.  Where is MiX scum?  Point me to some of his scummy posts.  I just don't see it.

Or are you voting him based on meta?  because that is a terrible case.

MiX is scum for shot-gunning votes and suspicion around, constantly and without fail OMGUS’ing, and mid-representing multiple people to paint them as scum.

These two posts from Galz, taken together, strike me as odd. It's not a contradiction per se, but if he really thinks MiX is probably scum, why say the intent to hammer was "to get reactions"? Thinking MiX is scum is reason enough. Also, the most common "reaction" you get from Intent to Hammer is a claim, but later Galz seems pretty emphatic that MiX shouldn'tclaim. So he's saying he did this for the reactions, but then saying one of the most likely reactions is something he specifically doesn't want?

Sorry if this question is completely random, but am I remembering correctly that Galz and DatSwan know each other irl?

Correct

Okay thanks. There was something I found a little scummy about your Swan case but with that context its not scummy.

At the time of my intent to hammer, I would’ve been fine with MiX claiming, as I stated then. Stuff happened, votes changed, and the time when I suggested MiX NOT claim was no longer the same situation.

[pingpongsam]

vote: Galzria

I don't think I like this EFHW wagon very much. I mostly joined it because I strongly townread faust right now and I trust his analysis. But I don't actually understand his reasoning. E has consistently defended MiX. So what? We don't know MiX's alignment, so why does that tell us anything about EFHWs?

Okay, so why then, are you voting Galz? Because EFHW is?