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[EFHW]

I thought Shraeye's entry was towny and helpful. I'm going to use his post to organize my own.

I don't agree with him on several points:

Glooble -- I looked at the posts you singled out and I don't see it. Like really, I don't see it at all. The unvote seemed towny to me.

Galzria -- I've been thinking about the Galzria numbers post, and his defense later on. Shraeye says this is what town!Galzria does, but I think town!Galzria usually waits a lot longer before posting an analysis post like that. Usually he makes those posts when clarifying is actually needed. I don't think it was needed there. His defense was eloquent, but also sounded like scum!Galzria's silver tongue. I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting. But he's my best guess at the moment, so ...

vote: Galzria

Space -- I'm not leaping at the chance to vote them, but they do seem a bit more reactive than usual.

pubby -- I think his joke is NAI. I think his jumping on the MiX wagon was scummy.

I do agree with Shraeye that Didds is giving off a scummy vibe. He agreed with me re: ADK towny.

MiX: Shraeye didn't take a position on MiX. I have never had a scumread on MiX in any game, except for the one where he was SK. I don't have one now. Of course there is likely to be scum on the wagon, but I don't have any bias about when they would have joined. They could have started it, since MiX is a popular target. Or they could have jumped on hoping it would go to quicklynch. That's a more rookie move, so I'd be looking at pubby there.

I'll address the other players in a later post.

[faust]

I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting.

Where have I mischaracterized Galzria?

[EFHW]

I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting.

Where have I mischaracterized Galzria?

Now I can't find it. I have to track down how I got that impression. Maybe I thought you agreed with MiX?

[Awaclus]

Vote: Galzria

[EFHW]

I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting.

Where have I mischaracterized Galzria?

Now I can't find it. I have to track down how I got that impression. Maybe I thought you agreed with MiX?

Well shoot. Sorry for mischaracterizing you. Why did you vote Galzria?

[EFHW]

I'm going to be v/la Sunday through Sunday. My internet access will be very intermittent. Hopefully I'll be able to check in every couple days or so.

[shraeye]

MiX: Shraeye didn't take a position on MiX.

I disagree.

[Galzria]

Galzria -- I've been thinking about the Galzria numbers post, and his defense later on. Shraeye says this is what town!Galzria does, but I think town!Galzria usually waits a lot longer before posting an analysis post like that. Usually he makes those posts when clarifying is actually needed. I don't think it was needed there. His defense was eloquent, but also sounded like scum!Galzria's silver tongue. I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting. But he's my best guess at the moment, so ...

Bolded is incorrect and an unfair argument: I was asked to supply that post - mainly a look at the potential upside of claiming, and I did so. Had I ignored the request I would be voted for "intentionally ignoring questions asked of me" - and if you don't think that's true, you're being foolish.

Italicized isn't something I can really argue against. It's just how I type, regardless of alignment, when I'm frustrated with being mischaracterized.

Underlined - You're forgiven for thinking Faust was in the same boat as MiX. MiX is the only one who has (poorly) made a case against me, however Faust is the one who's been consistently pushing my lynch - despite providing no reasons himself.

All that aside, apparently nobody feels my Faust case, despite it being one of the better cases for actual scum play made at this point in the game. So...

Vote: Swan

This is more of a gut read right now than anything concrete. I would also be ok pursuing a gkrieg vote - as he was here early on but has more or less faded from view. Out of everybody that isn't really here, he's given off the most vibe-y "I'm trying but don't want to be noticed". I could also take a look at Glooble - Shraeye says his responses were scummy, and I honestly haven't looked that closely at them to make up my own mind.

[faust]

I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting.

Where have I mischaracterized Galzria?

Now I can't find it. I have to track down how I got that impression. Maybe I thought you agreed with MiX?

Well shoot. Sorry for mischaracterizing you. Why did you vote Galzria?

I thought the way he echoed joth's townread on Didds looked like a scum move, and I haven't seen anything that would point me towards town!Galz.

[faust]

This is more of a gut read right now than anything concrete. I would also be ok pursuing a gkrieg vote - as he was here early on but has more or less faded from view. Out of everybody that isn't really here, he's given off the most vibe-y "I'm trying but don't want to be noticed".

gkrieg is VLA. Which isn't true for the other lurkers.

[Glooble]

All that aside, apparently nobody feels my Faust case, despite it being one of the better cases for actual scum play made at this point in the game. So...

I think I missed that case somehow. Let me go back and take a look.

[Galzria]

This is more of a gut read right now than anything concrete. I would also be ok pursuing a gkrieg vote - as he was here early on but has more or less faded from view. Out of everybody that isn't really here, he's given off the most vibe-y "I'm trying but don't want to be noticed".

gkrieg is VLA. Which isn't true for the other lurkers.

Ah - noted.

[Galzria]

I agree that faust and MiX mischaracterized Galzria's focus on PR's (though not by as much as he thinks), which is why I held off on voting.

Where have I mischaracterized Galzria?

Now I can't find it. I have to track down how I got that impression. Maybe I thought you agreed with MiX?

Well shoot. Sorry for mischaracterizing you. Why did you vote Galzria?

I thought the way he echoed joth's townread on Didds looked like a scum move, and I haven't seen anything that would point me towards town!Galz.

Didds has, in my experience with her, a trait that’s been consistently true in each of her scum games that I’ve been a part of or read, and that she does NOT exhibit in her town games. That trait has thusfar not been present here. Yes, I echo’d Joth, because he claimed a town read on Didds after somebody (MiX?) voted her, and I agree with his town read.

[jotheonah]

I keep thinking about what PPS said about MiX’s wagon:

It’s not the fast build you have to worry about, it’s the ones that get pretty far and then stall out mysteriously.

Pretty much exactly what’s happened with MiX.

[jotheonah]

Like, I know I wasn’t the biggest fan of the MiX wagon, but I’m not really sure why we gave up on it? There hasn’t been any compelling counter argument. It just faded away and now we’re fiahing around for another wagon like he’d claimed or something. I don’t love it.

[jotheonah]

That word was meant to be either fishing or flailing. Take your pick I guess.

[Glooble]

A MiX wagon? How unoriginal.

We can do vote: Faust instead.

The intentional attempt to suppress information with no bother or care as to why that may be a bad thing is scummy. He’s simply dismissing arguments in a “I know better than you so too bad” fashion and is unwilling to debate the actual merits of something that could, in fact, be valuable to town later on but is forever lost if we just brush it aside and don’t follow through with it early.

Okay, found it.

Then I reread faust to see if I agree, and I don't see where you're getting this? Are you talking about Faust's back and forth with ADK about number claiming?  Were you talking about this post:

And with that, can we please leave the flavor claim talk behind us unless someone has a substantial reason to think it benefits town?

Cause that caveat is pretty important. No one stepped forward and gave him a good reason. Being wary of giving info to scum isn't alignment indicative for faust at all, he cautions somebody about it more or less every game.


PPE: Lots

[Galzria]

A MiX wagon? How unoriginal.

We can do vote: Faust instead.

The intentional attempt to suppress information with no bother or care as to why that may be a bad thing is scummy. He’s simply dismissing arguments in a “I know better than you so too bad” fashion and is unwilling to debate the actual merits of something that could, in fact, be valuable to town later on but is forever lost if we just brush it aside and don’t follow through with it early.

Okay, found it.

Then I reread faust to see if I agree, and I don't see where you're getting this? Are you talking about Faust's back and forth with ADK about number claiming?  Were you talking about this post:

And with that, can we please leave the flavor claim talk behind us unless someone has a substantial reason to think it benefits town?

Cause that caveat is pretty important. No one stepped forward and gave him a good reason. Being wary of giving info to scum isn't alignment indicative for faust at all, he cautions somebody about it more or less every game.


PPE: Lots

It was more specifically his back-and-forth with Swan from #227-#242 that pinged me as being incredibly closed minded and unwilling to entertain the notion of something being potentially beneficial for town - more than just disagreeing though, it felt like he was going out of his way to shut down any possible conversation on the topic.

[faust]

Like, I know I wasn’t the biggest fan of the MiX wagon, but I’m not really sure why we gave up on it? There hasn’t been any compelling counter argument. It just faded away and now we’re fiahing around for another wagon like he’d claimed or something. I don’t love it.

You act as if it has died down but from what I can see it's still the biggest wagon around.

[A Drowned Kernel]

A MiX wagon? How unoriginal.

We can do vote: Faust instead.

The intentional attempt to suppress information with no bother or care as to why that may be a bad thing is scummy. He’s simply dismissing arguments in a “I know better than you so too bad” fashion and is unwilling to debate the actual merits of something that could, in fact, be valuable to town later on but is forever lost if we just brush it aside and don’t follow through with it early.

Okay, found it.

Then I reread faust to see if I agree, and I don't see where you're getting this? Are you talking about Faust's back and forth with ADK about number claiming?  Were you talking about this post:

And with that, can we please leave the flavor claim talk behind us unless someone has a substantial reason to think it benefits town?

Cause that caveat is pretty important. No one stepped forward and gave him a good reason. Being wary of giving info to scum isn't alignment indicative for faust at all, he cautions somebody about it more or less every game.


PPE: Lots

It was more specifically his back-and-forth with Swan from #227-#242 that pinged me as being incredibly closed minded and unwilling to entertain the notion of something being potentially beneficial for town - more than just disagreeing though, it felt like he was going out of his way to shut down any possible conversation on the topic.

I think that it's very unlikely that scum!faust would see discussion of setup info that he thought was pro-town and think "I'd better try and shut this down". Regardless of alignment, when it comes to setup talk faust is going to do what he thinks is towny

[jotheonah]

Like, I know I wasn’t the biggest fan of the MiX wagon, but I’m not really sure why we gave up on it? There hasn’t been any compelling counter argument. It just faded away and now we’re fiahing around for another wagon like he’d claimed or something. I don’t love it.

You act as if it has died down but from what I can see it's still the biggest wagon around.

Well, vote-wise yeah. But no one's talking about it and everyone seems to be trying to start competing wagons.

[jotheonah]

Like, I know I wasn’t the biggest fan of the MiX wagon, but I’m not really sure why we gave up on it? There hasn’t been any compelling counter argument. It just faded away and now we’re fiahing around for another wagon like he’d claimed or something. I don’t love it.

You act as if it has died down but from what I can see it's still the biggest wagon around.

Well, vote-wise yeah. But no one's talking about it and everyone seems to be trying to start competing wagons.

Which is generally how scum wants to kill a wagon on scum, right? Try to argue against it and you've just tied yourself to your partner. Offering an attractive alternative is much better.

I'm just getting more and more on board with a scum!MiX scenario here.

vote: MiX

[pubby]

I still don't see any better lynch than MiX today. His last few posts have made me more suspicious, not less. And with all the the vote changes happening around I feel like there's plenty of buddy information to be gained if he turns out to be scum.

[pubby]

pubby -- I think his joke is NAI. I think his jumping on the MiX wagon was scummy.

I was the second player to vote MiX 

[Glooble]

His last few posts have made me more suspicious, not less.

Can you articulate why, or is it just a gut thing?