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[WestCoastDidds]

Shraeye, I hope you feel better soon. The post-vacation struggle is real. Awa, I’m sorry that the world has been not awesome.

MiX, why Galz? I don’t hate it, but some explanation would help.

[jotheonah]

unvote

[Swowl]

Oh! Items! How interesting!

Folks who know the flavor....Swan, EFHW, or anyone else...what kind of artifacts might we we be dealing with? I’ve never played in an Asher game, but in Joth’s game the objects were plentiful and (mostly) useful.

So I have not really played in a ton of specifically "Asher RMMs"... but I have found that typically items kind of scale out on either side of the spectrum. In my experience, it goes one of two ways:

Power Item - There is super powerful item that normally needs to end up in the right pair of hands, or be combined with another item (or more I guess), in order to like "activate".

Nothing Item - Items that just literally do nothing and waste time and energy. Best example I can think of is a Faust RMM a while back where they put the ability to "freeze" a player in to play (I think it was Ashes that got frozen actually), and then they put the item of "Flint" in play. Wasted a ton of time trying to figure out how to use to flint to make a fire or whatever in order to "unfreeze" Ashes. In the end... the flint literally  did nothing and had no potential to do anything.


I think that focusing on items, based on my experience thus far, kind of leans towards benefiting skum. Does anyone agree with that? I do not have a ton of RMM exp...
My reasoning is pretty much based on the concept that we don't ever get to weigh the risk-reward of the item before being able to potentially use it.

Moreover, to get to the point where we could potentially use said item we have to do the whole "will the real slim shady please stand up" bit... which of course gives a world of info to skum, gives them CC options, fake claim options, angles to push.... and all of it is without knowing what the potential upside will be generally.

I am not saying not to focus on items EVER... but probably this early it is better to leave it aside for the time being.

[Swowl]

Folks who know the flavor....Swan, EFHW, or anyone else...what kind of artifacts might we we be dealing with? I’ve never played in an Asher game, but in Joth’s game the objects were plentiful and (mostly) useful.

This seems very much like a bad subject of discussion.

I was reading up backwards and just hit this.

TLDR my previous post - I agree with Faust on this one.

[faust]

Meh, that seems like pretty standard day 1 Awaclus.

He does it because we let him get away with it. Let's stop doing that. You don't just get to sit out day 1.

I could dig vote: Awaclus

I can tell you that regardless of surrounding circumstances, you won't change his behaviour.

[Swowl]

I just had a thought regarding number claiming - I think it would be a good idea if when at L-1 (or possibly in twilight?) it would be a good idea if we all claimed out our number ranking that is associated with our role (maybe even the info on why, if you have it?).

I do not think it should really be used as a reason to not lynch that player, as skum would obviously lie when on the block. However, if they flip skum, we know they were lying and we disregard it.... but, if the player flips town we then have a piece of the puzzle that would not be given to us on a standard flip.

Thoughts on that? I can think of a downside or two, but the idea seems to have far more upsides imo.

[Swowl]

hm... actually I may take back that last bit after reading the set up again.

Ash - Do players flip with their number ranking announced?

[faust]

I think there is way too much thought and weight put on those numbers. They are there for people who don't know the flavor to get a sense of the role their character has in the narrative and the only thing claiming them achieves is allowing people with flavor knowledge to narrow down which character you might be. We should not claim them unless we are also prepared to claim our flavor name, and we should concern ourselves with more important things, like scumhunting.

[faust]

How convenient that my vote is already on DatSwan.

[2.71828.....]

Oh! Items! How interesting!

Folks who know the flavor....Swan, EFHW, or anyone else...what kind of artifacts might we we be dealing with? I’ve never played in an Asher game, but in Joth’s game the objects were plentiful and (mostly) useful.

So I have not really played in a ton of specifically "Asher RMMs"... but I have found that typically items kind of scale out on either side of the spectrum. In my experience, it goes one of two ways:

Power Item - There is super powerful item that normally needs to end up in the right pair of hands, or be combined with another item (or more I guess), in order to like "activate".

Nothing Item - Items that just literally do nothing and waste time and energy. Best example I can think of is a Faust RMM a while back where they put the ability to "freeze" a player in to play (I think it was Ashes that got frozen actually), and then they put the item of "Flint" in play. Wasted a ton of time trying to figure out how to use to flint to make a fire or whatever in order to "unfreeze" Ashes. In the end... the flint literally  did nothing and had no potential to do anything.


I think that focusing on items, based on my experience thus far, kind of leans towards benefiting skum. Does anyone agree with that? I do not have a ton of RMM exp...
My reasoning is pretty much based on the concept that we don't ever get to weigh the risk-reward of the item before being able to potentially use it.

Moreover, to get to the point where we could potentially use said item we have to do the whole "will the real slim shady please stand up" bit... which of course gives a world of info to skum, gives them CC options, fake claim options, angles to push.... and all of it is without knowing what the potential upside will be generally.

I am not saying not to focus on items EVER... but probably this early it is better to leave it aside for the time being.

I think Dune mafia town needed to talk/communicate more about items than they did.  But items were fairly essential to town survival in that game.  That being said, I don't think that there is anything in this setup that would make items so key that they need to be the main focus.  But I could be wrong.

Weighing it all together I do fall on the "don't talk about items" side of the camp.  On the other hand, I am 100% in the camp of "If town has something that they want to claim - claim it" but no one should be forced to claim anything D1.  Or even D2.  Maybe something on D3, but that is dependent on how the game progresses.

[2.71828.....]

I just had a thought regarding number claiming - I think it would be a good idea if when at L-1 (or possibly in twilight?) it would be a good idea if we all claimed out our number ranking that is associated with our role (maybe even the info on why, if you have it?).

I do not think it should really be used as a reason to not lynch that player, as skum would obviously lie when on the block. However, if they flip skum, we know they were lying and we disregard it.... but, if the player flips town we then have a piece of the puzzle that would not be given to us on a standard flip.

Thoughts on that? I can think of a downside or two, but the idea seems to have far more upsides imo.

I don't think numbers associated with flavor work as a "piece of the puzzle"

Basically, I don't think Ashersky went into the game thinking "I have three 1s, two 2s, one 3 4 and 5, etc...."

So not a fan of the idea.

[2.71828.....]

How convenient that my vote is already on DatSwan.

Disagree with faust that this line of thinking points to Scum!Swan though.

[faust]

How convenient that my vote is already on DatSwan.

Disagree with faust that this line of thinking points to Scum!Swan though.

I don't think this line of thinking points to scum!Swan, I think the lack of thinking about who is scum does.

[ashersky]

Ash - Do players flip with their number ranking announced?

No.

[Swowl]

How convenient that my vote is already on DatSwan.

Disagree with faust that this line of thinking points to Scum!Swan though.

I don't think this line of thinking points to scum!Swan, I think the lack of thinking about who is scum does.

1) I did not realize your vote was currently on me (though you are correct, obviously)... regardless, it had nothing to do with the statement I made - so weigh that one on it's own merits.

2) I am doing as much thinking as I ever do on Day 1 about who is skum. I just don't have anything to go on yet.

Also, my idea has great merit for skum hunting. I am not saying it to be defensive, but because I think it should be considered. Ash has now confirmed that the number does not flip. I also do not at all agree that Ash just "randomly put the number component in for people that do not know the flavor". Ash made it crystal clear in the OP that if you don't know the show you will be at a disadvantage.


@ Faust - all that everything aside. What is the downside to the idea I brought up? Why would it not be beneficial to Town? I get you don't want to spend time on it, but on the off chance that I am correct about the rankings having meaning ... this is kind of the time we need to discuss it.

Someone is gonna get lynched.
They claim a number.
a) they flip town - so they told the truth and we know that info.
b) they flip not town - we assume they lied and we know what we would of known anyways without the number claim.

after we have the info we can choose to place the weight we want on it... however, the other way around is a faulty syllogism.

[Swowl]

(Quote of Galz's wall post)

Galzria is scum for focusing on PRs too much. But where's the fun in voting scum early? All it does is give them a chance to look townie... looking at you, gkrieg!

I was puzzled by all the effort galz put into the number question.

I've noticed that you often seem to postpone pursuing your scumreads.

Is your skum read on Galz based on the effort put into the post content or based on the fact that it was Galz that did it?

[faust]

I also do not at all agree that Ash just "randomly put the number component in for people that do not know the flavor".

For players unfamiliar with the show, each flavor name will be accompanied by a ranking from 1 to 10.

(bolding mine)

[faust]

And it's not beneficial because they might not be lynched after all and then the info is out with no benefit to us. I mean if someone is going to claim their role, sure, claim the number if you want. But if there is a reason to not role-claim, there is also a reason to not number-claim.

[MiX]

MiX, why Galz? I don’t hate it, but some explanation would help.

(Quote of Galz's wall post)

Galzria is scum for focusing on PRs too much.

Was my explanation of my scumread, and it's still in effect.


I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum, but I haven't reread our scum game to see what scum!faust did that was unique to him being scum. I might do it this (ingame) day, but I doubt it, so I will give faust a day 1 pass.

[faust]

I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum

Can you expand?

[pingpongsam]

I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum

Can you expand?

Damn, now I am not sure if I should be voting Swan or Mix.

[MiX]

I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum

Can you expand?

I don't think this is scum!Swan behavior and I think I can read him well. As for your case, I don't think heavy-setup-related-no-scumhunting posts are scumtells for Swan at all, if not the contrary.

[faust]

I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum

Can you expand?

I don't think this is scum!Swan behavior and I think I can read him well. As for your case, I don't think heavy-setup-related-no-scumhunting posts are scumtells for Swan at all, if not the contrary.

So does it make me scum for a reason other than you disagree with me?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don't swan focusing so much on numbers at this point is scummy (I also think that we're past the point where it's useful)

I don't think faust voting for swan is scummy

I do think that mix calling faust scummy (and then not voting) is in fact scummy

vote: mix

[WestCoastDidds]

I don't like faust's Swan case, and I think it makes him scum, but I haven't reread our scum game to see what scum!faust did that was unique to him being scum. I might do it this (ingame) day, but I doubt it, so I will give faust a day 1 pass.

I don’t usually sit so close to ADK, but I’m feeling what they are laying down on this. Plus I think giving someone they explicitly find scummy a pass is sketch.

Vote: MiX