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[WanderingWinder]

How about a one-shot VP point gainer? Kind of swingy, but would make the mid-late game interesting.

It would probably be $5-7 and give 3-5 VP.

So would it be card you buy for $5 and then trash for 3VP as an action? Or an on buy/gain +3VP?

6$ for +3VP or +4VP.. 5 for 3VP is too close to strictly better than duchy.

Actually, I dunno. If you have to wait to trash the thing for VP, my gut is that I'm not actually going to think it's stronger than duchy in the first place - because very often you aren't sure whether you're getting around to the duchy again to play it again, and even if I do, it means I can't play some other action.

[tlloyd]

So I think you should add to your list:

Border Village - One shot $5 Gainer
Mandarin - One shot treasure top decker
Ill Gotten Gains - One shot curser
Farming Village - One shot Remodel(ish)
Embassy - One shot opponent assistance
Inn - One shot ... putting all your actions back into your deck
Arguably Nomad Camp? - One shot Woodcutter top-decker

Some of these are really stretching. And I'm pretty sure you mean Farmland.

[rod-]

I seriously prefer on-gain to one-shots, even if it's an immediate trash-on-gain effect ;  It would be too swingy to have to buy a card, wait for your deck to cycle back around to it, and (probably) have to waste an action / card slot on it.  Particularly if you had terminal draw/etc. 

I have more than enough experience with games where I buy a card just before a reshuffle turn 6 and don't see it until turn 9+ on the next shuffle where my opponent buys it on turn 8 and plays it on turn 9 before me.  ..anything that can be balanced to negate this stochastic effect would be better in my eyes.

[tlloyd]

I have more than enough experience with games where I buy a card just before a reshuffle turn 6 and don't see it until turn 9+ on the next shuffle where my opponent buys it on turn 8 and plays it on turn 9 before me.  ..anything that can be balanced to negate this stochastic effect would be better in my eyes.

Just the other day I opened Witch/-, my opponent didn't buy a Witch until turn 4, and he played his Witch before I could play mine. (I was second player).

[Loschmidt]

How about a one-shot VP point gainer? Kind of swingy, but would make the mid-late game interesting.

It would probably be $5-7 and give 3-5 VP.

So would it be card you buy for $5 and then trash for 3VP as an action? Or an on buy/gain +3VP?

6$ for +3VP or +4VP.. 5 for 3VP is too close to strictly better than duchy.

Actually, I dunno. If you have to wait to trash the thing for VP, my gut is that I'm not actually going to think it's stronger than duchy in the first place - because very often you aren't sure whether you're getting around to the duchy again to play it again, and even if I do, it means I can't play some other action.

Yeah I agree, if you have to actually play the action to get the VP its probably pretty similar to a duchy at $5. Or even worse because if you don't play it before the game ends its just a dead card.

Also the Kingdom cards are always better (or rather arguably "better", I mean everything has its place etc, etc) than standard cards at a similar price. Donald mentioned this himself at one point. If they weren't better you'd never buy them, big money would be the only strategy.

So anyway $4 for "trash this +3vp"?

[O]

How about a one-shot VP point gainer? Kind of swingy, but would make the mid-late game interesting.

It would probably be $5-7 and give 3-5 VP.

So would it be card you buy for $5 and then trash for 3VP as an action? Or an on buy/gain +3VP?

6$ for +3VP or +4VP.. 5 for 3VP is too close to strictly better than duchy.

Actually, I dunno. If you have to wait to trash the thing for VP, my gut is that I'm not actually going to think it's stronger than duchy in the first place - because very often you aren't sure whether you're getting around to the duchy again to play it again, and even if I do, it means I can't play some other action.

Yeah I agree, if you have to actually play the action to get the VP its probably pretty similar to a duchy at $5. Or even worse because if you don't play it before the game ends its just a dead card.

Also the Kingdom cards are always better (or rather arguably "better", I mean everything has its place etc, etc) than standard cards at a similar price. Donald mentioned this himself at one point. If they weren't better you'd never buy them, big money would be the only strategy.

So anyway $4 for "trash this +3vp"?

No way. I was thinking 6$ for an on-gain 3VP... but 4$ for an action-trash 3vp allows for some ridiculous rush strategies. IW/Gardens without the hassle of gardens clogging up your deck.

[Axxle]

How about a one-shot VP point gainer? Kind of swingy, but would make the mid-late game interesting.

It would probably be $5-7 and give 3-5 VP.

So would it be card you buy for $5 and then trash for 3VP as an action? Or an on buy/gain +3VP?

6$ for +3VP or +4VP.. 5 for 3VP is too close to strictly better than duchy.

Actually, I dunno. If you have to wait to trash the thing for VP, my gut is that I'm not actually going to think it's stronger than duchy in the first place - because very often you aren't sure whether you're getting around to the duchy again to play it again, and even if I do, it means I can't play some other action.

Yeah I agree, if you have to actually play the action to get the VP its probably pretty similar to a duchy at $5. Or even worse because if you don't play it before the game ends its just a dead card.

Also the Kingdom cards are always better (or rather arguably "better", I mean everything has its place etc, etc) than standard cards at a similar price. Donald mentioned this himself at one point. If they weren't better you'd never buy them, big money would be the only strategy.

So anyway $4 for "trash this +3vp"?

No way. I was thinking 6$ for an on-gain 3VP... but 4$ for an action-trash 3vp allows for some ridiculous rush strategies. IW/Gardens without the hassle of gardens clogging up your deck.

I'm worried about an on gain effect like this in a talisman game, although with a high cost it would only be trouble with cost reducers.  maybe on gain would balance better.

[LastFootnote]

How about a one-shot VP point gainer? Kind of swingy, but would make the mid-late game interesting.

It would probably be $5-7 and give 3-5 VP.

So would it be card you buy for $5 and then trash for 3VP as an action? Or an on buy/gain +3VP?

6$ for +3VP or +4VP.. 5 for 3VP is too close to strictly better than duchy.

Actually, I dunno. If you have to wait to trash the thing for VP, my gut is that I'm not actually going to think it's stronger than duchy in the first place - because very often you aren't sure whether you're getting around to the duchy again to play it again, and even if I do, it means I can't play some other action.

Yeah I agree, if you have to actually play the action to get the VP its probably pretty similar to a duchy at $5. Or even worse because if you don't play it before the game ends its just a dead card.

Also the Kingdom cards are always better (or rather arguably "better", I mean everything has its place etc, etc) than standard cards at a similar price. Donald mentioned this himself at one point. If they weren't better you'd never buy them, big money would be the only strategy.

So anyway $4 for "trash this +3vp"?

No way. I was thinking 6$ for an on-gain 3VP... but 4$ for an action-trash 3vp allows for some ridiculous rush strategies. IW/Gardens without the hassle of gardens clogging up your deck.

Am I wrong, or has this whole concept already been done with Island?

[Loschmidt]

Am I wrong, or has this whole concept already been done with Island?

Pretty close. But Island is better than $4 "trash this +2vp" in that because it can sequester other cards, and its better because you get the 2vp even if you don't play it.

[DG]

How much for a terminal action "Trash this card. Gain 3 silver"?

[O]

How much for a terminal action "Trash this card. Gain 3 silver"?

5 would be obscene.. 3 would make a 7 silver 2nd reshuffle too likely.. so I'd say 4

[LastFootnote]

How much for a terminal action "Trash this card. Gain 3 silver"?

5 would be obscene.. 3 would make a 7 silver 2nd reshuffle too likely.. so I'd say 4

Agreed. $4 seems like the best cost at first glance.

[ecq]

It might be neat to have a card with an effect that's a little too powerful for its price but whose text reads something like:

Awesome Card
<Do something awesome>
Trash this card.  Gain an Awesome Card.

It's not quite one-shot, but it has a limited number of uses per game and it runs down a pile, which may or may not be desirable.  As far as which effect, maybe the same effects as Grand Market (possibly without the + buy) but priced at $4.  It'd be an awesome early deck accelerator, but you couldn't build an engine around it because it'd eventually go away for good.

Eh, the issue here is that you don't actually get more than 10 plays of GM in most games anyway. You could cost it at $6 without the copper restriction and have this, maybe with the buy, maybe without.

It's kind of interesting because I think it'd play a way that's almost the opposite of GM.  GM becomes available in the mid-late game and works best when chained.  GM is also very useful for obtaining more GMs.  This would start to disappear in the mid-late game and would not work at all in an engine.  It's not great for gaining copies of itself.

If both players buy it, each player can expect 5 total plays, not 10, so each gets $10 total for the whole game in $2 parcels, not nearly as powerful as GM or even Conspirator, but also not as hard to get working.

[Kuildeous]

Border Village - One shot $5 Gainer
Mandarin - One shot treasure top decker
Ill Gotten Gains - One shot curser
Farmland - One shot Remodel(ish)
Embassy - One shot opponent assistance
Inn - One shot ... putting all your actions back into your deck
Arguably Nomad Camp? - One shot Woodcutter top-decker

Also Mint - One shot trashing of treasures in play.