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[iguanaiguana]

Of course, why should we discuss the possibilities when we can act with certainty and implicate people outright based on this certainty?

This is a weird position to take.

I believe he was being sarcastic. Did you miss the sarcasm?

[Teproc]

I like that ash implying a town player might be crazy enough to be something just universally means "what about PPS" ?

[Puk]

before i vote i need to ask: schadd, how are your lungs?

That is a weird comment. What was that about, Puk ?

Nothing about, really. I was just saying something. I could've jumped on the band wagon, and voted schadd, but thought that was kinda lame. So I asked a random question (i mean, not totally random but related to a character). Then the day ended all of a sudden before i could say something meaningfull.

[Teproc]

gkrieg, in what scenario does town!ash NOT put someone at L-1 five hours into day 1 (I didn't actually check the time) ? You might not like it, but that's just what ash does. Yes, it's possible he did it because he controlled a hidden vote and could use his town meta to protect him, but, well, his town meta does protect him there.

It does seem likely that the hidden vote was from Juarez, which... I guess it's possible that both scum factions have a hidden vote ?

I'm just saying that scum!ash does it 100% of the time, and that there is a chance that town!ash doesn't.  I'm not saying that it is conclusive evidence or anything.

This is 100% true but shouldn't be considered some town indicative statement from Gkrieg. To use his own logic, Gkrieg makes this observation 100% of the time - town or scum.

What did he say that I missed that is making two top players call him town? I see nothing.

Oh, I think it's a nothing argument, but I find it townie because it's a way to get the day going. As ash said, this is essentially day 1 again, and this is the kind of "getting us out of RVS" towncred I like to give.

[Teproc]

before i vote i need to ask: schadd, how are your lungs?

That is a weird comment. What was that about, Puk ?

Nothing about, really. I was just saying something. I could've jumped on the band wagon, and voted schadd, but thought that was kinda lame. So I asked a random question (i mean, not totally random but related to a character). Then the day ended all of a sudden before i could say something meaningfull.

Oh, right, cancer. That flew completely over my head.

[iguanaiguana]

related to a character

What? Is there a reference I didn't get?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

I can confirm LL's two scum factions claim.

[iguanaiguana]

gkrieg, in what scenario does town!ash NOT put someone at L-1 five hours into day 1 (I didn't actually check the time) ? You might not like it, but that's just what ash does. Yes, it's possible he did it because he controlled a hidden vote and could use his town meta to protect him, but, well, his town meta does protect him there.

It does seem likely that the hidden vote was from Juarez, which... I guess it's possible that both scum factions have a hidden vote ?

I'm just saying that scum!ash does it 100% of the time, and that there is a chance that town!ash doesn't.  I'm not saying that it is conclusive evidence or anything.

This is 100% true but shouldn't be considered some town indicative statement from Gkrieg. To use his own logic, Gkrieg makes this observation 100% of the time - town or scum.

What did he say that I missed that is making two top players call him town? I see nothing.

Oh, I think it's a nothing argument, but I find it townie because it's a way to get the day going. As ash said, this is essentially day 1 again, and this is the kind of "getting us out of RVS" towncred I like to give.

I just have never not seen Gkrieg get the day going. Town or scum dude show's some initiative.

[Witherweaver]

Perfectly valid in every game that has a scum dayvig power via QT order. Voting comes up slightly more often.

Gkrieg is calling the L-1 scummy based on information we have in hindsight.  That’s disingenuous given I had no reason to think the L-1 would result in anything other than some discussion and unvotes.  Which, by the way, was my expectation and reasoning.  I had no reason to suspect schadd of anything.  The voters and non voters were more interesting.

That isn't given to anyone but you.

[Witherweaver]

before i vote i need to ask: schadd, how are your lungs?

That is a weird comment. What was that about, Puk ?

Nothing about, really. I was just saying something. I could've jumped on the band wagon, and voted schadd, but thought that was kinda lame. So I asked a random question (i mean, not totally random but related to a character). Then the day ended all of a sudden before i could say something meaningfull.

Why were you debating jumping on the wagon at that point?

[Witherweaver]

Of course, why should we discuss the possibilities when we can act with certainty and implicate people outright based on this certainty?

This is a weird position to take.

I believe he was being sarcastic. Did you miss the sarcasm?

Uh, no?

[iguanaiguana]

Of course, why should we discuss the possibilities when we can act with certainty and implicate people outright based on this certainty?

This is a weird position to take.

I believe he was being sarcastic. Did you miss the sarcasm?

Uh, no?

So you were giving a sarcastic response to a sarcastic comment?

[Witherweaver]

No.. I'm saying PPS's position is an odd one to take.

[Teproc]

No.. I'm saying PPS's position is an odd one to take.

In other news: water is wet.

[iguanaiguana]

No.. I'm saying PPS's position is an odd one to take.

But being that he was probably sarcasming that wouldn't actually be his position.

[pingpongsam]

Of course, why should we discuss the possibilities when we can act with certainty and implicate people outright based on this certainty?

This is a weird position to take.

I believe he was being sarcastic. Did you miss the sarcasm?

Uh, no?

So you were giving a sarcastic response to a sarcastic comment?

That's how I took it; that he was actually joining my scrutiny on gkrieg. Takes one to know one and all.

[Witherweaver]

No.. I'm saying PPS's position is an odd one to take.

But being that he was probably sarcasming that wouldn't actually be his position.

Couldn't we assume I'd be referring to his actual position? 

This seems like an odd conversation to have.

[iguanaiguana]

Of course, why should we discuss the possibilities when we can act with certainty and implicate people outright based on this certainty?

The key word is act, bolded above. PPS is implying that Gkrieg may be scummy, because he is acting with certainty that he shouldn't actually have. Therefore his position is actually that town should not act with certainty but scum might.

I think? Oh man, this conversation. I just wanted to pry into whether Witherweaver was disigenuously poking at people's motives, and now I don't even know.

[Puk]

before i vote i need to ask: schadd, how are your lungs?

That is a weird comment. What was that about, Puk ?

Nothing about, really. I was just saying something. I could've jumped on the band wagon, and voted schadd, but thought that was kinda lame. So I asked a random question (i mean, not totally random but related to a character). Then the day ended all of a sudden before i could say something meaningfull.

Why were you debating jumping on the wagon at that point?

  thought that was kinda lame

[Witherweaver]

before i vote i need to ask: schadd, how are your lungs?

That is a weird comment. What was that about, Puk ?

Nothing about, really. I was just saying something. I could've jumped on the band wagon, and voted schadd, but thought that was kinda lame. So I asked a random question (i mean, not totally random but related to a character). Then the day ended all of a sudden before i could say something meaningfull.

Why were you debating jumping on the wagon at that point?

  thought that was kinda lame

That would be the end result of the debating. I'm asking why you were debating at all.

[Witherweaver]

Of course, why should we discuss the possibilities when we can act with certainty and implicate people outright based on this certainty?

The key word is act, bolded above. PPS is implying that Gkrieg may be scummy, because he is acting with certainty that he shouldn't actually have. Therefore his position is actually that town should not act with certainty but scum might.

I think? Oh man, this conversation. I just wanted to pry into whether Witherweaver was disigenuously poking at people's motives, and now I don't even know.

To act with certainty doesn't mean to have certainty; it means to assume you are correct. We don't have all the information in Mafia; acting with certainty is the same thing as acting with doubt. Making a case generally necessitates making some assumptions and following the implications of those assumptions.

If PPS is saying that Gkrieg actually does have certainty on this subject, then PPS should just be voting Gkrieg.

[Puk]

before i vote i need to ask: schadd, how are your lungs?

That is a weird comment. What was that about, Puk ?

Nothing about, really. I was just saying something. I could've jumped on the band wagon, and voted schadd, but thought that was kinda lame. So I asked a random question (i mean, not totally random but related to a character). Then the day ended all of a sudden before i could say something meaningfull.

Why were you debating jumping on the wagon at that point?

  thought that was kinda lame

That would be the end result of the debating. I'm asking why you were debating at all.

I guess, if i don't have a clue, and there's not really a clue at all, I don't like the thing "he posted first, let's vote for him". When I vote random, I more like voting for someone who said something that i don't think is quite true (like, for example, saying a killer is a good person).

[gkrieg13]

Perfectly valid in every game that has a scum dayvig power via QT order. Voting comes up slightly more often.

Gkrieg is calling the L-1 scummy based on information we have in hindsight.  That’s disingenuous given I had no reason to think the L-1 would result in anything other than some discussion and unvotes.  Which, by the way, was my expectation and reasoning.  I had no reason to suspect schadd of anything.  The voters and non voters were more interesting.

Isn't calling things scummy based on information we have in hindsight like the whole game of mafia??  It isn't disingenuous, because I'm saying that your scum narrative for doing it is "I usually put people to L-1 as town, so I'll do that this time, then hammer with my secret vote".  Do you not agree that if you had control of a secret vote, were on the Red scum team, and the situation came up, that you wouldn't have gone for the quickhammer?  You would've assumed schadd was town, and started off the game with two fewer townies basically, and had the argument that you would've done this as town (which is what you are doing here.

[Witherweaver]

before i vote i need to ask: schadd, how are your lungs?

That is a weird comment. What was that about, Puk ?

Nothing about, really. I was just saying something. I could've jumped on the band wagon, and voted schadd, but thought that was kinda lame. So I asked a random question (i mean, not totally random but related to a character). Then the day ended all of a sudden before i could say something meaningfull.

Why were you debating jumping on the wagon at that point?

  thought that was kinda lame

That would be the end result of the debating. I'm asking why you were debating at all.

I guess, if i don't have a clue, and there's not really a clue at all, I don't like the thing "he posted first, let's vote for him". When I vote random, I more like voting for someone who said something that i don't think is quite true (like, for example, saying a killer is a good person).

I don't think this answers the question.

My point is this. You're town, you see that 15 seconds into Day 1 someone got ramped up to L-1. Unless you're Ash or PPS, you probably don't even consider voting, but rather think it's just something silly and novel. You are not deliberating over voting.

On the other hand, you're scum and this person is your partner, and you feel immense pressure to react. You think the hammer is probably not likely, but you don't know that, and you don't want to appear too averse to the possibility of the lynch. So you're thinking about it.

[Witherweaver]

Also,

Vote: Puk