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[iguanaiguana]

Haddock, what if scum has some kind of framer and they framed me so that I appear as yellow?

[iguanaiguana]

I really do think Jake is town. His play is town!Jake play, and WW copped him.

[iguanaiguana]

I want to reiterate the reasons why we should not lynch some people:

EFHW - EFHW claimed to have watcher results that would implicate Awaclus during the brief time when there was a mod error and we thought Awaclus was alive during D3. See here:

Did he steal his own amulet??!!

It was an odd night, so no.

My claiming won't hurt anything. Would want one specific person to go before me, otherwise don't care about where I am in the order.

I think I know who was trying to kill Haddock.

Chairs seems like a good lynch absent all other information (so does Dylan? and you?) but we should definitely mass claim.

Awaclus was my final suspect. He targeted DatSwan last night and so did iguana, DatSwan himself, and myself.

Haddock is a bad lynch because he has been cleared by WW, EFHW, and Awaclus, who tried to kill him. We wasted a lot of investigating on him, actually, which is a shame.

Jake is a bad lynch because he's been cleared by WW. I think only if Dylan flips town, maybe Jake is Godfather!scum. But again, I think his play is town play.

Space is a bad lynch because duh.

That leaves Dylan and Chairs. We need to sort those two.

Haddock's results are not the be all end all here. Most likely scum can screw them up. The fact that mafia killed e and not Haddock is a pretty good indicator of that.

[iguanaiguana]

Haddock, what if scum has some kind of framer and they framed me so that I appear as yellow?

Or what if scum framed Jake to appear as yellow, and I am the final person who doesn't belong anywhere in your N4 results?

Earlier results definitely heavily implied Jake was red, not yellow, when you account for the fact that I should never be red.

[Haddock]

Haddock, what if scum has some kind of framer and they framed me so that I appear as yellow?

Then weirdness.

It's possible they have a framer that makes you appear a different colour to them (this is possible, I've checked with faust).
Then there'd only be one scum left, one of Dylan or chairs.

I THINK that's the only possibility consistent with last night's results.  But this would be super weird.  And it doesn't change our information much.

I'm still working through possibilities.  Fairly certain I can't make the possibility where:
Iguana is B/W (therefore Jake is yellow, and there's one other yellow out there)
work with N1's results.  (Or N2's results, for that matter, except if EFHW is yellow)



So it must be that iguana is yellow and scum have one remaining person of a non-yellow colour.  That definitely doesn't work with N1's results, unless scum were two different colours (!!!).

Maybe it's N1's results that have been messed with?
I'm still calculating.  Hopefully Space's magic calculator will come through for us.

[Haddock]

Haddock, what if scum has some kind of framer and they framed me so that I appear as yellow?

Or what if scum framed Jake to appear as yellow, and I am the final person who doesn't belong anywhere in your N4 results?

This is possible, makes you blue/white.  I'll run these possibilities when I get a chance.

Earlier results definitely heavily implied Jake was red, not yellow, when you account for the fact that I should never be red.

On the contrary, N3's results heavily imply that Jake is scum.  But we agree that those have probably been messed with.
Not sure whether N1/N2's results indicate town!Jake.  Maybe they do.

[Haddock]

Haddock, what if scum has some kind of framer and they framed me so that I appear as yellow?

Or what if scum framed Jake to appear as yellow, and I am the final person who doesn't belong anywhere in your N4 results?

This is possible, makes you blue/white.  I'll run these possibilities when I get a chance.

I can almost make something work where someone gets framed Yellow every night.  Including WW on N3.  Seems a bit speculative.  Haven't quite figured it out all the way yet, either.

[Haddock]

Quote from the QT of iguana's role:

1. Until you successfully kill two living players, you will be considered a "threat to the group" for the purposes of The Group's win condition. If you kill a third or more living players, you will again be considered a "threat to the group."

So it's possible (unlikely, but possible) that iguana is the only reason the game is still going.  I'll run these possibilities also.  If this is the case we should lynch someone we think is scum anyway, and if iguana's kill goes through then we all just win.

[Haddock]

Quote from the QT of iguana's role:

1. Until you successfully kill two living players, you will be considered a "threat to the group" for the purposes of The Group's win condition. If you kill a third or more living players, you will again be considered a "threat to the group."

So it's possible (unlikely, but possible) that iguana is the only reason the game is still going.  I'll run these possibilities also.  If this is the case we should lynch someone we think is scum anyway, and if iguana's kill goes through then we all just win.

Forget this, there was a kill last night which iguana probably didn't perform.

[Haddock]

Worth mentioning:


I believe iguana is what he says he is.

However: if there is another 3rd party out there whose win condition does not conflict with town's, then they should claim.  It would essentially be a counterclaim at this point.

[Haddock]

Worth mentioning:


I believe iguana is what he says he is.

However: if there is another 3rd party out there whose win condition does not conflict with town's, then they should claim.  It would essentially be a counterclaim at this point.

And if we get no such counterclaim I think we can essentially just believe iguana - all my results consistently point towards a 3rd party.

[iguanaiguana]

Here are the results, colored in:

N1:
Yellow: ash, Awaclus, chairs
Blue: DatSwan, Galz
White: Space
Red: EFHW, Haddock, gkrieg, schadd, e, Jake, Dylan, iguana, WW, silver

Right colour right place: 7
Right colour wrong place: 7

Ash, Datswan, Galz, Space, Gkrieg, schadd, Iguana are all gauranteed incorrect placements.
EFHW, Haddock, e, WW, silver are all correct placements. So we need two more.

If mafia is yellow and chairs is mafia, that would make Awaclus, Chairs, and at least one of [Jake, Dylan] correct. That's at least 8 RCRP. So Chairs cannot be mafia if mafia is yellow.
If mafia is blue or white, then all correct placements need to be in red. That would make Jake and Dylan town and mean that Chairs must be mafia. However, in that case, we can only get to 6 RCWP. So Chairs can't be scum based on N1 results. And I would argue that the N1 results are the least likely to be messed up.

If one of [Dylan, Jake, EFHW] is mafia and mafia is yellow, that gives the correct results.
If one of [Dylan, Jake, EFHW] is mafia, mafia is blue, and I am white you can only get to 6 RCRP, 6 RCWP. If I am blue and mafia is white, then we can only get to 5 RCRP.

So N1 results clear Chairs, and leave Dylan, Jake and EFHW as mafia candidates. And mean that at least on N1, mafia is yellow.

N2:
Yellow: EFHW, DatSwan, WW
Blue: Dylan
Red: ash, Haddock, Awaclus, gkrieg, chairs, e, Jake, Galz, iguana, silver

Right colour right place: 7
Right colour wrong place: 5

Guaranteed to be wrong: DatSwan, WW, Awaclus, Gkrieg, iguana
Guaranteed to be correct: ash, Haddock, e, Galz, silver. So we need two more.

If EFHW is mafia and mafia is yellow, then Chairs, Jake and EFHW are all correct. That's too many RCRP.
If Dylan is mafia and mafia is yellow, then Chairs and Jake are correct. That's 7 RCRP. Then you can switch Awaclus with Datswan, Gkrieg with WW, and EFHW with Dylan for 5 RCWP. Alternately you can swap me with Dylan for 5 RCWP if I am blue. So Dylan works N2.
If either of [Jake, Chairs] is mafia and mafia is yellow, then only the other of [Jake, Chairs] is correct in his spot and we can only get to 6 RCRP.

So N1 and N2 together both seem to implicate Dylan as yellow and mafia, and clear EFHW, Jake and Chairs as town.

N3:
Yellow: Galz
Blue: WW, Iguana, Jake
Red: Haddock, e, silver, EFHW, gkrieg, Awaclus, Swan, Dylan, chairs

Right colour right place: 7
Right colour wrong place: 3



Gauranteed incorrect: Galz, WW
Guaranteed correct: Haddock, e, silver, Swan -- So we need three more.

Maybe the solution is that I am blue, WW was framed yellow, and Dylan is yellow. Let me check that.

RCRP: Iguana, Haddock, e, silver, EFHW, Swan, chairs
RCWP: Gkrieg, Galz, Jake (swaps with Dylan or Awaclus).

That actually works.


N4:
Red - Dylan, 2.7, EFHW, Haddock, chairs
Yellow - Jake, Iguana
Response:
Right colour right place 5
Right colour wrong place 1

So on N4, if I am blue, Dylan is yellow, and Jake has been framed yellow:

RCRP: Jake, 2.7, EFHW, Haddock, Chairs
RCWP: Dylan

So I at least have a theory that explains the results of all nights, where Dylan framed WW on N3 and Jake on N4.

[iguanaiguana]

For the record, I was BSing when I said I wasn't trying to solve this puzzle. I've been trying to solve it the whole game, but I've been doing it in my QT with the knowledge that I am a survivor.

That's also why I just could not believe in Werewolves. Me, PPS, Mafia, Town - already 4 alignments. Regardless of whether PPS would have sometimes shared a box with me.

[SpaceAnemone]

Seems pointless in light of iguana's claim.  But sure:

schadd: Yellow
gkrieg: Yellow
Awaclus: Yellow
EFHW: Yellow
iguana: Yellow
Jake: White
Space: Red
Galz: Red
Swan: Red
e: Red
ash: Red
silver: Red
Haddock: Red
Dylan: Red
chairs: Red
WW: Red (but Framed Yellow on N3)

This gives (7,7) for N1, but (6,7) for N2, (7,2) for N3 (with WW reading Yellow for that night only), and (6,0) for N4.

PPE: interesting stuff from iguana to look at :-)

[iguanaiguana]

I just realized that it wouldn't have to be WW who was framed N3, it could be Jake who was either framed or recruited.

To put it simply, if I am blue, Dylan is yellow, and Jake reads as yellow only for N3 & N4, and the rest of living players are red, then all results are consistent.

Everyone should go check this themselves.

[EFHW]

I just realized that it wouldn't have to be WW who was framed N3, it could be Jake who was either framed or recruited.

To put it simply, if I am blue, Dylan is yellow, and Jake reads as yellow only for N3 & N4, and the rest of living players are red, then all results are consistent.

Everyone should go check this themselves.

N2 doesn't work because then there would be no wrong colors.

[iguanaiguana]

I just realized that it wouldn't have to be WW who was framed N3, it could be Jake who was either framed or recruited.

To put it simply, if I am blue, Dylan is yellow, and Jake reads as yellow only for N3 & N4, and the rest of living players are red, then all results are consistent.

Everyone should go check this themselves.

N2 doesn't work because then there would be no wrong colors.

Maybe I am playing mastermind wrong. Here is my N2 solution with Dylan as yellow:

Yellow: EFHW, DatSwan, WW
Blue: Dylan
Red: ash, Haddock, Awaclus, gkrieg, chairs, e, Jake, Galz, iguana, silver

Right colour right place: Ash, Haddock, chairs, e, Jake, Galz, silver (7)
Right colour wrong place: Awaclus <> DatSwan; Gkrieg <> WW; Dylan <> Iguana

If you can swap Dylan two times, then it fails. But I was going on the assumption that you can only swap once. 

[iguanaiguana]

Jake shouldn't have been framed N3 anyway, because that's the night that WW copped him innocent. So at least for that one night Jake should be red.

[Haddock]

Seems pointless in light of iguana's claim.  But sure:

schadd: Yellow
gkrieg: Yellow
Awaclus: Yellow
EFHW: Yellow
iguana: Yellow
Jake: White
Space: Red
Galz: Red
Swan: Red
e: Red
ash: Red
silver: Red
Haddock: Red
Dylan: Red
chairs: Red
WW: Red (but Framed Yellow on N3)

This gives (7,7) for N1, but (6,7) for N2, (7,2) for N3 (with WW reading Yellow for that night only), and (6,0) for N4.

PPE: interesting stuff from iguana to look at :-)

What?

No.
I mean. Without even checking it's obvious that it doesn't give (6,0) N4

[iguanaiguana]

I just realized that it wouldn't have to be WW who was framed N3, it could be Jake who was either framed or recruited.

To put it simply, if I am blue, Dylan is yellow, and Jake reads as yellow only for N3 & N4, and the rest of living players are red, then all results are consistent.

Everyone should go check this themselves.

N2 doesn't work because then there would be no wrong colors.

Actually, if you can swap more than once, and there is at least one more yellow in the game, then N2 is impossible. Because if any three players are yellow, they could swap with the three town players listed on yellow, and get 6 RCWP. Even if I am white, and you can swap twice, you get 6 RCWP. But if you can only swap once, then Dylan being mafia is the only solution that works that assumes there is at least one yellow player left.

And we can't take solutions with no mafia left in the game seriously when we've only flipped two traitors and Awaclus.

[chairs]

These are the factional abilities for scum in Dune 3:

Factional Abilities

Poison. Each night, one of you may target another player to poison. That player will die the following night.

Cure. Each day or night, one of you may target a poisoned player. That player will no longer die.

Steal. Each day, one of you may target another player to rob. If that player has any spice, you will steal up to one dose.

Shroud. Each night, one of you may shroud yourself in spice gas. You will be untargetable by all non-killing actions.

No poisoning has happened, and scum did a standard kill last night. I think that was a dead end. So, pretty strange that chairs didn't get the loud voice, and no one else seems to have it either.

Dylan, you should still claim what action you took last night. Stop dodging.

Chairs, why did you bid for Loud Voice?

Because my draft order was so low, I felt that all the better options were probably taken and Loud Voice seemed like it would be good for clearing myself as Town in conjunction with Hiding (or at least confirming I did what I said I did).

[EFHW]

I just realized that it wouldn't have to be WW who was framed N3, it could be Jake who was either framed or recruited.

To put it simply, if I am blue, Dylan is yellow, and Jake reads as yellow only for N3 & N4, and the rest of living players are red, then all results are consistent.

Everyone should go check this themselves.

N2 doesn't work because then there would be no wrong colors.

Actually, if you can swap more than once, and there is at least one more yellow in the game, then N2 is impossible. Because if any three players are yellow, they could swap with the three town players listed on yellow, and get 6 RCWP. Even if I am white, and you can swap twice, you get 6 RCWP. But if you can only swap once, then Dylan being mafia is the only solution that works that assumes there is at least one yellow player left.

And we can't take solutions with no mafia left in the game seriously when we've only flipped two traitors and Awaclus.

The problem is that 3 yellow 1 blue was guessed and is also what you are suggesting, but the results indicated there were two extra colors in the guess that were wrong.

[EFHW]

Jake shouldn't have been framed N3 anyway, because that's the night that WW copped him innocent. So at least for that one night Jake should be red.

Does it have to be Jake? Anybody being framed would meddle with our results.

[iguanaiguana]

Jake shouldn't have been framed N3 anyway, because that's the night that WW copped him innocent. So at least for that one night Jake should be red.

Does it have to be Jake? Anybody being framed would meddle with our results.

I generated an explanation for why we have correct that isn't "everyone Haddock listed as town is town" and isn't "Iguana is yellow."

If you still need to know why I'm not yellow, ask Awaclus or Gkrieg.

[iguanaiguana]

Why we have 5 correct*