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[gkrieg13]

But actually, I still think we should have people with draft position 10,11,12,etc claim.

Claim draft position, not role. And also claim what the bid.

Ah, no! Bad plan on the bid front!

Really, don't claim the bid yet. The power of having the bid info is the threat of being able to catch scum out in a lie twice over (the rank order and the bid number) and forcing them to stay honest because of it. That falls apart if we go ahead and give them a nice list of numbers not to fake-claim right now.

Ok then.

Positions 10-17 claim your draft positron only. Then after that claim your bid.

There. Now we can catch scum twice? This exercise is not to catch scum, it is to help determine who is town (creating better poe to catch scum, yes. But it isn't (and will never be) a gotcha moment where we catch scum)

I'm not sure I get why this is a good idea yet.  Why are we having the people in the last part of the draft claim their position?

[2.71828.....]

But actually, I still think we should have people with draft position 10,11,12,etc claim.

Claim draft position, not role. And also claim what the bid.

Ah, no! Bad plan on the bid front!

Really, don't claim the bid yet. The power of having the bid info is the threat of being able to catch scum out in a lie twice over (the rank order and the bid number) and forcing them to stay honest because of it. That falls apart if we go ahead and give them a nice list of numbers not to fake-claim right now.

Ok then.

Positions 10-17 claim your draft positron only. Then after that claim your bid.

There. Now we can catch scum twice? This exercise is not to catch scum, it is to help determine who is town (creating better poe to catch scum, yes. But it isn't (and will never be) a gotcha moment where we catch scum)

I'm not sure I get why this is a good idea yet.  Why are we having the people in the last part of the draft claim their position?

Because I do not believe scum intentionally bid on the same numbers. Therefore, if we lynch scum in a duplicate or triplicate number bid we can PoE town from the rest. Obviously not just ICing them, but it really helps their case

[2.71828.....]

Also not automatically narrowing our lynch pool to the three people who bid 4 (as an example)

[2.71828.....]

 It just gives town information without costing us really anything. It is extremely likely that at least one role was not bid on. Which means even the player in draft position 17 had the chance to be a PR (however unlikely). We are merely learning who bid on the same numbers to help PoE later on.

[iguanaiguana]

Town on Witherweaver, scummy on people saying my claim makes me town.

To clarify, I don't think your claim makes you town, I think how you claimed makes you town.

Don't fight me on this one. I want to read you as town, let me.

Would it still be mafia with you if I didn't fight you on everything and always turn out to be wrong?

[O]

I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.

[iguanaiguana]

Only scum fears to jump on a completely baseless case.

That's a pretty good summary of why the Gkrieg wagon is acceptable. LaLight is still where it's at though.

[iguanaiguana]

I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.

Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?

[O]

I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.

Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?

Why do they need to? I'm not saying mafia need the draft claim here. Just can push the idea fast and early.

[O]

I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.

Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?

actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.

Vote: ii

[Witherweaver]

I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.

Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?

actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.

Vote: ii

Could you clarify that?

[O]

I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.

Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?

actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.

Vote: ii

Could you clarify that?

To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy,  aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.

[2.71828.....]

I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.

A reasonable (but incorrect) theory.

[O]

To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy,  aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.

To clarify, "what are scum actively doing at this moment" is much more directly in the minds of scum players than town ones

[2.71828.....]

I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.

Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?

actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.

Vote: ii

Could you clarify that?

To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy,  aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.

The problem with this is assuming my identity as scum and creating a read based off that.

What you should do is 1) go ahead and agree that claiming should happen or 2) vote for me

[O]

I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.

Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?

actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.

Vote: ii

Could you clarify that?

To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy,  aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.

The problem with this is assuming my identity as scum and creating a read based off that.

What you should do is 1) go ahead and agree that claiming should happen or 2) vote for me

it's not assuming your scum in the slightest actually. I included both cases.

[2.71828.....]

I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.

Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?

actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.

Vote: ii

Could you clarify that?

To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy,  aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.

The problem with this is assuming my identity as scum and creating a read based off that.

What you should do is 1) go ahead and agree that claiming should happen or 2) vote for me

it's not assuming your scum in the slightest actually. I included both cases.

Hm. You are right. I should have kept reading past your first case.

[Swowl]

But actually, I still think we should have people with draft position 10,11,12,etc claim.

Claim draft position, not role. And also claim what the bid.

Ah, no! Bad plan on the bid front!

Really, don't claim the bid yet. The power of having the bid info is the threat of being able to catch scum out in a lie twice over (the rank order and the bid number) and forcing them to stay honest because of it. That falls apart if we go ahead and give them a nice list of numbers not to fake-claim right now.

Ok then.

Positions 10-17 claim your draft positron only. Then after that claim your bid.

There. Now we can catch scum twice? This exercise is not to catch scum, it is to help determine who is town (creating better poe to catch scum, yes. But it isn't (and will never be) a gotcha moment where we catch scum)

lol tell that to XXR from 105

[iguanaiguana]

I think it's reasonably likely that e is scum and had two mafia bid on the same number.

Then how come his partners aren't backing him up?

actually the only way I'd ask this question is if I was from the perspective of a scum player.

Vote: ii

Could you clarify that?

To immediately jump to that question, I'd have to have been from the perspective "well I, his scum buddy,  aren't backing him up so why would you think that" or "e's town and we're not backing him up, so I can get some credit for defending a townie". I would never come at it from a town perspective of "why aren't random other people who I don't know the identities of pushing it simultaneously", because it doesn't quickly strike a town player as an active thing thats occurring.

The problem with this is assuming my identity as scum and creating a read based off that.

What you should do is 1) go ahead and agree that claiming should happen or 2) vote for me

it's not assuming your scum in the slightest actually. I included both cases.

Hm. You are right. I should have kept reading past your first case.

As you were posting your theory I was thinking about how I liked e's plan and trying to think of potential drawbacks before agreeing to it. Then your post came up so I right away considered it as a drawback. But then it seemed odd because I was already thinking about how it was unusual that e actually had a potentially good plan and no one else was picking it up. My mind didn't go straight to the conclusion,  it was just the only thing I thought about that was worth posting.

[iguanaiguana]

Anyway I think e's plan is potentially good.

[O]

As you were posting your theory I was thinking about how I liked e's plan and trying to think of potential drawbacks before agreeing to it. Then your post came up so I right away considered it as a drawback. But then it seemed odd because I was already thinking about how it was unusual that e actually had a potentially good plan and no one else was picking it up. My mind didn't go straight to the conclusion,  it was just the only thing I thought about that was worth posting.

sufficient for me unvote

I actually do agree with the claiming plan. Outside of completely switching up bids between scum (which doesn't help with the duplicate-numbers-to-scum-are-town hypothesis" it's surprisingly hard to fuzz a number bid. But it should also be orders

But it should actually be the opposite way around. If people claim what #s they bid on first, and then what draft position after, then they have less room to fuzz what number they bid on.

[O]

IE: "The person who got slot 15 bid on 8. I bid on 4 and got 14, but I could claim that the 8 group was one larger".

This does have risks if for scum but with enough information about other bids/groups that risk could be eliminating.

[O]

eliminated. I promise i can grammar if i chose to do so.

[Swowl]

I have issue with any claiming concept that does not help skum. Are we not worried that by doing this we will be making it too easy for them to hunt out PRs for the NK? - Same applies for SK/Mother I suppose.

[2.71828.....]

I have issue with any claiming concept that does not help skum. Are we not worried that by doing this we will be making it too easy for them to hunt out PRs for the NK? - Same applies for SK/Mother I suppose.

I am not worried about this