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[Teproc]

vote: DatSwan

[Roadrunner7671]

I've completely fallen off the bus, I've had a really busy weekend. I reread everything, and right now I think my favorite options are Faust or Datswan, my least favorite options are Teproc and Skumpy.

[Swowl]

Well this is gonna look bad for me... Faust's close look into me is putting back over to that side though so....
vote: Faust

[faust]

Well this is gonna look bad for me... Faust's close look into me is putting back over to that side though so....
vote: Faust

No defense? Well okay then, this is easier than I thought.

[Swowl]

doc appt sorry. I will get to it in a sec. I don't feel a great deal to defend most of the points as they have been addressed previously, but you do have some good points in there.... I will get to them shortly.

[Swowl]

Pre-hopefulBigReadLaterOn:

Is it a XX/Galzria team? It seems too simple.

Watch it just end up being something like faust/Chairs/RR and they just let town massacre themselves.

before I get to anything....this.

[Swowl]

Because I am the nut low at quoting things I am going to address the faust post without using them. Sorry if that makes it hard but phone makes things difficult. Hopefully we can follow along:

1) "Nothing D1." - Reminder, I was VLA.

2) "Questioning Galz VT claim D2" - The quote provided is taken out of context. I was asking SPECIFICALLY Galz to justify what he gains as a town player by doing this. It was in response to the IC telling us to stop wasting time why Galz would do such a thing. I voted for him because he didn't answer and I felt that skummy.

3) "Voted TWM" - Pointing out that I voted for a town player is irrelevant. I thought he was skummy, I placed a vote, I changed my mind and changed my vote to Galz. Whereas, just saying, you end voted Jake days 1 and 2 and are now targeting me.

4) "Galz + TWM team" - I thought there was a strong case for TWM and Galz being 2/3 skum. As mentioned above in #3), I changed my mind about the situation which at least temp suspended my paranoia on the team idea. So I unvoted.

5) Having no Position on Jake - I didn't have a position on Jake. I felt like everyone's (especially Faust) points were dictated off of interactions regarding specificities on a D1 wagon that was rushed at the end. Obviously, if you are skum you will jump on this as a defense, but we have to also remember that it doesn't really provide all of the info we think it does. Robz went down because we fucked up. That should not be forgotten. Jake went down because the conversation was navigated to do such by skum... because we forgot about what happened to Robz.

6) Having no previous position on Faust - I stated in your quote that I was null leaning on skummy. You didn't post a lot, so I did not have a large opinion but if I had to pick a way to lean I was leaning skummy. That is why i hadn't expressed anything.

7) And to the final and most obvious concern ---- I am hoping that either we can actually consider "what we learn from people when they flip" to help us now before we do something dumb, or at the very least everyone remembers to consider it if I am to eat it.
I don't even like voting for Faust right now to be honest, he has buried himself and it seems like a waste. If I go, I flip VT, its over for him. However, the quickest way to absolve myself would be to point out he is just accusing me with very little actual backing, cast my vote for him, hope it gets to hammer, obviously have him flip skum, and then we can focus on the fun part.

Two additional Points to touch on:

1) My Claim - I claimed my VT role on Day 2 for a reason - because then I can play straightforward and not have to worry about it. I can  contribute knowing one of two things will be certain, 1) I have no reads on anyone. Lots of you have reads on each other. I don't know how to interact knowing that my opinion matters, without shooting my team in the foot... but a lot of you do know how to do that. It was primarily a way to make sure I could cast my opinion when I felt I should without be victim to the meta. 2) that if I ever meet the rope it will reveal a great amount of information when I flip town.

2) Some people are obv thinking what I am thinking... "Why would Faust go so hard at me if he is Skum? He just kills himself for tomorrow." You lynch me we go MYLO tomorrow. If he hangs today he hangs today. If I hang today, he hangs tomorrow... but they have us at win or go home.

[chairs]

LOL @ Skumpy.

Well this is gonna look bad for me... Faust's close look into me is putting back over to that side though so....
vote: Faust

WTF vote: DatSwan

[chairs]

Fuck why is it so close to deadline.

[Galzria]

Can somebody not as lazy as me produce a short vote history for each player throughout the game (better yet if it includes "stated would vote but hasn't")? If not I'll get around to looking at the people I'm most interested in at some point today. Deadline is 3:00pm forum time tomorrow though.

Skumpy: The problem, as you've noted, is the lack of any sort of consensus amongst town players. I'll lynch anybody except Teproc, Me, or you. My preferred order is pretty clear by now (Chairs, RR, Raptor?, DatSwan, Andrew, Faust*) - and Faust is only not #1 based entirely on that single post (Teproc's read plays a small part. At the very least I know it's not disingenuous, even if it's not right).

Here's a question for those interested in considering it (easier for Faust and I)

Vote Count 1.4

faust (1): Roadrunner7671
Robz888 (3): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96
JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (3): DatSwan, Teproc, AndrewisFTTW

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday, August 6 at 1:00 pm forum time. I am VLA till tomorrow,
 so the twilight will be quite long, sorry for any inconvenience.

If I believe Skumpy (If he's scum, scum wins) and Faust to be town (or him to believe so of me): The game started with 10 town, 3 scum. Teproc is town and not voting above. Do you believe 8 of the 9 entire remaining town comprise the entirety of the Robz/Jake wagon above? That's a hell of a consensus for town D1.

This is the end of day vote:

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW

The only notable addition is Roadrunner, but now there are 11 voters so there MUST be at least one scum voting. If Faust is town, I think it's highly improbable that all 8 players in the first count were town. This leaves possible scum in {Raptor, Chairs}. With the same assumption regarding Faust in the bottom vote, there IS at least one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR} - and unless you believe that BOTH {Andrew, DatSwan} are scum,  then it means that there's probably 2 scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR}, and at least one in {Raptor, Chairs}.

That logic for Faust should be exactly the same if he believes I'm town. For everybody not!Faust/Galzria, it's obviously a little different. But still worth looking at.

As an expanded note: If I am unsure on Faust, I still have one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR, Faust} guaranteed, with 2 likely (unless DatSwan and Andrew are both scum).

Based on ALL of that (much of which is, I admit, a rehash of thoughts from before), I would still be happiest lynching Chairs, but could do Raptor or RR about equally.

Gonna look through D2 counts later today.

[Swowl]

LOL @ Skumpy.

Well this is gonna look bad for me... Faust's close look into me is putting back over to that side though so....
vote: Faust

WTF vote: DatSwan

Me pointing out the obvious that when I vote back at Faust it will look skummy is a WTF because....?

[Skumpy]

Funny you should ask Galz, I was writing this during work to hope it would inspire my thoughts. It hasn't.
This is based solely on day 3 opinions. It's not who voted for who, it's: "for each player, who suspects them, and who think they're town". Could be wrong in a few places, haven't double checked it really.

Note I'm leaving myself off all lists. As I said, I'm scared to be wrong.

Skumpy:
Against: XX, DatSwan
For: Everybody Else

Faust:
Against: XX, DatSwan, Andrew, RR
For: Teproc, Galzria, Chairs

Galzria:
Against: Andrew, XX
For: Teproc

XX:
Against: Andrew, faust
For: DatSwan

DatSwan:
Against: Faust, Teproc, RR, Chairs
For: XX

Chairs:
Against: Galzria, XX, Teproc
For: Faust

RR:
Against: Chairs, DatSwan, Faust, Galzria
For: XX

Andrew:
Against: Chairs
For: XX

Edit this if you think there are corrections to be made.

[Teproc]

Deadline is in 21 hours. People should state whether or not they will be around before that.

[Galzria]

Yes.

[Swowl]

Will be here. Just heard XXR should be back in 4-5 hours.

[Skumpy]

Grrrrr, I hate this. OK, here are my completely useless conclusions.

Firstly: Except for Andrew, I don't think anybody believes there's a team of Raptor and faust. I don't. Voting a teammate like faust before VLA is such a risky thing to do, I don't expect him to do it.

Nextly: So as a reminder, Galzria and DatSwan both claimed VT day 2. Was that a scum premeditated move? After all, if one's found to be lying, what're the odds the other one is too, amirite? But that doesn't seem right. Do people think the plan was for Galzria to claim immediately, not knowing ahead of time he'd be roleblocked (unless it's faust/galzria/datswan/yadayadaydaa), and then instruct DatSwan to claim THREE days later? That seems iffy.

And speaking of which: As much as I'd like to agree with faust's points and acknowledge DatSwan's interesting comments, the fact remains. If DatSwan is indeed scum, then WHY THE HELL WOULD HE CLAIM VT HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 2? Like, it doesn't make any sense! As I said, were I skummy, there is absolutely no way I would randomly, uninstructedly, claim my role in my first game that early. I'm not bold enough to do that without inciting the wrath of my team. I just can't wrap my head around it. He's either gotta be town or has a really clever partner. Right? right?....

Vote: Chairs, I'm honestly close to beyond caring because I kind of believe everybody. Chairs, just say anything, and I'll probably unvote you. Draw Proposal? We'll see if anybody wants to agree to one, perhaps?

Why chairs? I don't know, because Galzria's there? As untrustworthy as he always is, he's been right on TWM and was ready to get the wagon off Jake. What has chairs done this game? I don't know, maybe vote EVERYBODY? There's a lot of bus potential there. He was willing to vote faust, didn't, and now they're defending each other. Does that indicate a team? Elephant + Rhino. Who's suspected Chairs so far? Not really anybody seriously enough to vote for him.

I will be gone for a stretch later on but I'll be around 11ish hours before the deadline, and again during the last 3 hours or so.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Skumpy, I was also right about TWM and didn't feel good about lynching Jake. Will you vote Galz now?

[AndrewisFTTW]

By the way if you're unsure about faust and Galz, Galz is the better lynch. He claimed VT so if he does turn out to be town it wouldn't be as bad as losing the RB. And I just think he's been much scummier but hey, that's just me.

[chairs]

I am unlikely to be available at deadline, sadly.

[Swowl]

By the way if you're unsure about faust and Galz, Galz is the better lynch. He claimed VT so if he does turn out to be town it wouldn't be as bad as losing the RB. And I just think he's been much scummier but hey, that's just me.

I think the likelihood that Galz flips VT Farrrrrr outweighs the chances of Faust flipping RB.

[AndrewisFTTW]

By the way if you're unsure about faust and Galz, Galz is the better lynch. He claimed VT so if he does turn out to be town it wouldn't be as bad as losing the RB. And I just think he's been much scummier but hey, that's just me.

I think the likelihood that Galz flips VT Farrrrrr outweighs the chances of Faust flipping RB.

I disagree but whatever.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I'm back! need to reread everything but i should be around for deadline.

Unvote

[AndrewisFTTW]

Can I make a request that we don't Lynch until like 30 mins before deadline? I'll be sleeping late a little and I don't want to miss it this time.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Can I make a request that we don't Lynch until like 30 mins before deadline? I'll be sleeping late a little and I don't want to miss it this time.

xx seconds this.

[faust]

If I believe Skumpy (If he's scum, scum wins) and Faust to be town (or him to believe so of me): The game started with 10 town, 3 scum. Teproc is town and not voting above. Do you believe 8 of the 9 entire remaining town comprise the entirety of the Robz/Jake wagon above? That's a hell of a consensus for town D1.

Well, yes. If scum lurks or is VLA, town is going to push wagons. That is what I think happened.

The only notable addition is Roadrunner, but now there are 11 voters so there MUST be at least one scum voting. If Faust is town, I think it's highly improbable that all 8 players in the first count were town. This leaves possible scum in {Raptor, Chairs}. With the same assumption regarding Faust in the bottom vote, there IS at least one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR} - and unless you believe that BOTH {Andrew, DatSwan} are scum,  then it means that there's probably 2 scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR}, and at least one in {Raptor, Chairs}.

That logic for Faust should be exactly the same if he believes I'm town. For everybody not!Faust/Galzria, it's obviously a little different. But still worth looking at.

As an expanded note: If I am unsure on Faust, I still have one scum in {Raptor, Chairs, RR, Faust} guaranteed, with 2 likely (unless DatSwan and Andrew are both scum).

Based on ALL of that (much of which is, I admit, a rehash of thoughts from before), I would still be happiest lynching Chairs, but could do Raptor or RR about equally.

Gonna look through D2 counts later today.

I think one scum in Xx, chairs, RR is... a pretty safe assumption to make? I mean that's probably correct, but it would be probably correct regardless of votecounts because having at least one scum in a set of 3 has a pretty high likelihood right now. I do not think there is any inherent reason why Andrew and DatSwan couldn't both be scum.