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[Swowl]

unvote

Note- XXR's last action before going VLA was to v..o..t..e Faust (just making sure). I am still good with voting for him, but I am following my own advice on extending the days. If you think XXR is skum you need to think about this. Would skum play this this way? add a vote when one vote matters so much to a person that isn't a sure lynch?

I think this should give more cred to XXR as a town read.
I think this should have use look back into a Faust lynch.
I think we are OVERTHINKING a ton of crap and skum are laughing at us right now so let's get our $%@& together.

I do NOT like a XXR or Galz lynch today. I obv am fine with a Faust lynch. If someone has some input on a RR or Chairs I could also maybe get behind those.
Skumpy tied or first pick with Faust still.

[AndrewisFTTW]

What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.

Stop sticking up for IC. He obv doesn't need you to do it. Some of us want to get his opinion. He knows he doesn't need to give anything. There isn't anything "not cool" about putting pressure on him. He is a player just like everyone else. As Town his opinion is exponentially more valuable than our own when helping make a choice as he has 1) no reason to lie and 2) less information than everyone else.

Yes he has less information than everyone else, I don't see how that makes his opinion more valuable than anyone else's. And I wasn't really sticking up for him, just saying I think how Galz was going about trying to be all buddy buddy with him was scummy. I'm also not saying I don't value Teproc's opinion because I do. Whatever, can we get back to scumhunting please?

[Swowl]

What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.

Stop sticking up for IC. He obv doesn't need you to do it. Some of us want to get his opinion. He knows he doesn't need to give anything. There isn't anything "not cool" about putting pressure on him. He is a player just like everyone else. As Town his opinion is exponentially more valuable than our own when helping make a choice as he has 1) no reason to lie and 2) less information than everyone else.

Yes he has less information than everyone else, I don't see how that makes his opinion more valuable than anyone else's. And I wasn't really sticking up for him, just saying I think how Galz was going about trying to be all buddy buddy with him was scummy. I'm also not saying I don't value Teproc's opinion because I do. Whatever, can we get back to scumhunting please?

Yes - Reading the room on this one. Wanna skumhunt? Ignore Galz as a target for now and move to the next one. Who would that be for you?

[Swowl]

What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.

Stop sticking up for IC. He obv doesn't need you to do it. Some of us want to get his opinion. He knows he doesn't need to give anything. There isn't anything "not cool" about putting pressure on him. He is a player just like everyone else. As Town his opinion is exponentially more valuable than our own when helping make a choice as he has 1) no reason to lie and 2) less information than everyone else.

Yes he has less information than everyone else, I don't see how that makes his opinion more valuable than anyone else's. And I wasn't really sticking up for him, just saying I think how Galz was going about trying to be all buddy buddy with him was scummy. I'm also not saying I don't value Teproc's opinion because I do. Whatever, can we get back to scumhunting please?

Also - I mean his opinion is more valuable to Town because we know we are town plus he is town...  but he only knows he is town. So his "no reason to lie" + his "lack of information X our "added information" = a more valued opinion.

[AndrewisFTTW]

What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.

Stop sticking up for IC. He obv doesn't need you to do it. Some of us want to get his opinion. He knows he doesn't need to give anything. There isn't anything "not cool" about putting pressure on him. He is a player just like everyone else. As Town his opinion is exponentially more valuable than our own when helping make a choice as he has 1) no reason to lie and 2) less information than everyone else.

Yes he has less information than everyone else, I don't see how that makes his opinion more valuable than anyone else's. And I wasn't really sticking up for him, just saying I think how Galz was going about trying to be all buddy buddy with him was scummy. I'm also not saying I don't value Teproc's opinion because I do. Whatever, can we get back to scumhunting please?

Yes - Reading the room on this one. Wanna skumhunt? Ignore Galz as a target for now and move to the next one. Who would that be for you?

Kay. I'd go with faust.

Just to clarify your last post about xxr, is most of that only really relevant if faust flips scum? No problem if it is, just curious whether it's something I should look deeper into right now.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'm pretty null on RR and chairs. Much more confident about Galz than faust but yeah I'll just back off and be flexible.

[Swowl]

What does that mean? You'll just be putting more pressure on the IC? First of all that's not cool. Second of all the IC has just as much if even less information than the rest of town. We know he's town but he doesn't know who else is. So that's why I think it's scummy to put him in that position.

Stop sticking up for IC. He obv doesn't need you to do it. Some of us want to get his opinion. He knows he doesn't need to give anything. There isn't anything "not cool" about putting pressure on him. He is a player just like everyone else. As Town his opinion is exponentially more valuable than our own when helping make a choice as he has 1) no reason to lie and 2) less information than everyone else.

Yes he has less information than everyone else, I don't see how that makes his opinion more valuable than anyone else's. And I wasn't really sticking up for him, just saying I think how Galz was going about trying to be all buddy buddy with him was scummy. I'm also not saying I don't value Teproc's opinion because I do. Whatever, can we get back to scumhunting please?

Yes - Reading the room on this one. Wanna skumhunt? Ignore Galz as a target for now and move to the next one. Who would that be for you?

Kay. I'd go with faust.

Just to clarify your last post about xxr, is most of that only really relevant if faust flips scum? No problem if it is, just curious whether it's something I should look deeper into right now.

Agreed on the Faust flip - but the basis of my read is more on a "he is playing like I am playing" tell. I guess also, if he was being coached I would of thought he would be more active early on.

[Swowl]

I'm pretty null on RR and chairs. Much more confident about Galz than faust but yeah I'll just back off and be flexible.

Rad. I am not saying to disregard it. I am just saying that I think we ALL can be much more confident about a galz decision on D4.

[Skumpy]

Disclaimer: Currently 3 in the morning, my post may not be totally sane or correct, and everything I'm about to say is probably at like 70% of my best effort

Firstly: I'm a pessimist, I don't think town's winning this game. Hopefully I'm wrong. At least since everybody's had so different reads, I won't be the number #1 candidate for LVP?

About my being a PR or no, one of Teproc and Galzria is very wrong. I have not claimed once this game what my role is and if you think you know based on my posts, I would recommend dropping that assumption.


Now for reads:

The player who I think is most correct and is making the most sense, other than very significant incorrect accusation, is DatSwan. I agree with him; I think the team is faust/chairs/RR, that's me going on the record. The post where he claims VT in #622 just screams town to me. He's had some mafia experience, according to Galzria, but I have too, and I know that I would make some very bold moves as skum in my first game. But claiming VT halfway through day 2 is not one of them. Plus, the rest of that post feels genuine.

I have to put my faith in Galzria as town. I'm aware he's crafty, I'm aware he's a feared scum player, but I think his points have made a lot of sense. In any event, as DatSwan said, he's a bad lynch today. I don't know if I love his reads, but everybody's screaming different things. If I'm wrong about him, I take solace in knowing I won't be the first sailor he's Sirened to death.

Andrew: I didn't pay too close attention to him, I'll try again later. There's no blaring scum alarms, but he's slipped down on my town radar quite a bit. I'd also put him out of the lynch pool for now, but he could be scum, I won't discount the possibility.

Raptor: Oh boy, I just don't know what to think. One thing is for sure: with all due respect Raptor, your reads have not been good. You've voted for Robz, Jake, and pushed a TWM/Skumpy team pretty hard. That's 0/4 right there. He has not done anything this game to suggest that he's town. TWM said he saw something suspicious Raptor said day 2, I need to go back and look for that at some point. At the end of the day, he hasn't pushed hard a case for or against anyone, besides me, and seems willing to sit back and the let the fireworks show unfold.

But

I don't know the guy. DatSwan and Galzria both say they do, and both say this is very natural for him. I don't know how he would play as scum, but I suspect the scum team would ask him to be more involved. And the vote on Faust is giving me serious pause into thinking there's a team there, and I've already said I believe faust to be scum. The vote on Robz is so strange and undefended that I think as scum, he would rather sit on his vote a little longer. He's not my last choice for a lynch, but I believe it could be a big mistake to lynch him. In addition, if my theory is correct, or even a little off, I think he might have an eventful night if he's alive for it, and I would be very interested to see what transpires then (of course, I [or maybe Andrew?] will be dead instead).


Other 3: Scummy
With my numbers question about faust's status, I kind of went into it thinking anyone who answered 2 would be shady, which is what chairs did, RR similar. They're apparently willing to lynch faust, but they don't want to vote there. I wonder if #902 is faust giving some day instructions. I've said numerous times why I think faust is scum, and chairs and RR have just not contributed and made their feelings very well known. Plus, I'd like to Gkrieg called it correct in the first few minutes.

So there you go. I think that's where we should be focusing, and I think staying on Raptor could have some serious repercussions. Again, I might change my mind in the future, and I could be very wrong about Raptor. I think it's a mistake.



Skumpy out, Roger Roger.

[chairs]

Skumpy, this whole game's a goddamn sanity drain, no need to apologize.

The more I look at everybody's reaction, the more I think faust is town. I realize that most of you are probably just going to think I'm scum trying to save his buddy here (since apparently we're making the mistake of calling scumteams) but that's my honest opinion.

I don't remember who I'm voting. vote: Andrew. Just a gut feel.

[faust]

And I still think Datswan is a better lynch than Xx.

Just from a helping perspective - does anyone agree with this? More importantly in the world where I flip skum (which I won't), what do we learn from that?

That's super scummy.

[faust]

I will make my defense tomorrow. It will be called "why not to lynch faust" and be magnificent.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 3.2

faust (1): Xxraptorslayer96
Galzria (1): AndrewisFTTW
DatSwan (1): faust
Xxraptorslayer96 (2): Teproc, Galzria
AndrewisFTTW (1): chairs
Not voting (3): Roadrunner7671, Skumpy, DatSwan

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends August 23, at 3 pm FT.

[Teproc]

Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh. That vote count is the ugliest thing I've ever seen.

unvote

Figure it out people.

And the people not voting: vote. DatSwan, you might want long days but
a) Even if we do, you not voting isn't helping those long days be informative. You're engaging now, that's good, but votes are ultimately the only thing that affect the outcome of the game.
b) We don't actually want to go to deadline, it leads to situations like D1.

[Teproc]

Also: myr eads are not set in stone. If you're town, you should not be caring too much about them. That you know I'm town should lead you to consider my arguments because you know they're sincere, but that's it. As had been said repeatedly, I'm less likely than any other townie to find scum.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Vote: faust

[Swowl]

vote: faust

[Swowl]

Ac

Also: myr eads are not set in stone. If you're town, you should not be caring too much about them. That you know I'm town should lead you to consider my arguments because you know they're sincere, but that's it. As had been said repeatedly, I'm less likely than any other townie to find scum.

But you are more likely to have us recognize bias. Things like your most recent post is GOOD it HELPS. Saying that we need to vote because it is most important makes me rethink it because it came from the IC.
Beat the bushes a little man.

[Swowl]

Galz.. If you were going to change where would you go?

[Galzria]

Not Faust, not Raptor?

Chairs. Then RR. Then you. Then Andrew.

I could flip RR and Chairs. I could flip you and Andrew.

[Swowl]

I could get behind chairs or RR... so it is known.

[chairs]

vote: Roadrunner I could get behind this.

[faust]

As much as it is a shame to not be able to write up a big defense right now, I'm going to give you the gist of it here:

I am a claimed PR. The only claimed PR (well, you know, there's Teproc). From my perspective, there is a 50% chance that I will get cleared once we massclaim - barring fakeclaims etc. I could still prevent nightkills, particularly if mod 1 is not active. I am the best possible mislynch target for scum. That right there should make you think twice. If we were at LyLo, this would not matter, but we are not. If I am town, I am a strong asset to it. If I am scum, oyu already know my role, and can go after my unknown partners who would probably be more dangerous.

I will respond to any case I see later, but think about this for now. Unfortunately, my work has blocked f.ds and this will limit the time I can spend here... but there's definitely more to come.

[Galzria]

As much as it is a shame to not be able to write up a big defense right now, I'm going to give you the gist of it here:

I am a claimed PR. The only claimed PR (well, you know, there's Teproc). From my perspective, there is a 50% chance that I will get cleared once we massclaim - barring fakeclaims etc. I could still prevent nightkills, particularly if mod 1 is not active. I am the best possible mislynch target for scum. That right there should make you think twice. If we were at LyLo, this would not matter, but we are not. If I am town, I am a strong asset to it. If I am scum, oyu already know my role, and can go after my unknown partners who would probably be more dangerous.

I will respond to any case I see later, but think about this for now. Unfortunately, my work has blocked f.ds and this will limit the time I can spend here... but there's definitely more to come.

I expected more of the "magnificent defense of Faust." But I won't doubt your lack of availability at work.

A) Fakeclaims are arguably easier in this game than most. Scum know exactly what is and is not in the game. They know based on what's not what COULD be, without ever having to provide proof to town (or proof that's completely circumstantial or falsified).
--- Let's say I'm scum. I know there's no Doctor in the game.  I can claim Doctor with whatever results I want. N1 I Doctored Galz. N2 I Doctored Teproc. Sure, why not? Seems reasonable. If I know there's no Tracker or Watcher either that makes it even easier.

My point is, massclaiming (and assuming yourself to be cleared by such) would be bad. I suggested Doctor claiming earlier would clear you based on an assumption that I'm no longer going to take for granted. To answer your (and DatSwan) - Given what's been said, and my own (apparent) misunderstanding,  no,  a Doctor claim would NOT clear you (sorry).

B) If you're town, you're a strong asset to town: Yes. But your decisions thus far have not suggested to me that you're town. Then again, I felt (and I think the majority of town did as well) that you made horrible choices as Vig in 100 (not meant insultingly, just opinion) - so making "in my opinion" poor choices doesn't mean you're scum.

C) Regarding comparing others to how I play - I've yet to be proven wrong. I've use the argument on Andrew, and on you. Neither of whom have been shown to be town. I've never said that my play is "ultimate" scum play. But what I've meant to suggest is that the play worked. It worked well. Teproc said somewhere that it "shouldn't have worked", but he wasn't in the game. It's easy to rationalize from the sidelines. It obviously worked against a hell of a lot of veteran players.  I've a history of success on this front and so I don't think it's wrong to look for similar patterns in others. Your claim is 100% viable as town. It's also 100% viable as scum. I can't argue you're scum based on your claim. That's fantastic scum play. It's also really unfortunate town play.

What I would like from you, is to please offer a defense based on: wagons, vote history, and stated reads thus far. Please leave your claim out of it, except to justify your choices. I certainly didn't find your justification of Skumpy last night satisfactory, nor your response to my claim D2 following your claim to have blocked me N1. That is - I don't think either feel like choices or reactions reflect the mindset of a town Roleblocker having made the decisions you have.

[Skumpy]

The more I read through, the more I realize how dang impossible this game is. If DatSwan and/or Raptor is scum who came into this game thinking they'd be exposed immediately, you're doing a great job.

I've said my team opinion before. I'm probably wrong, but so are a lot of other people. I'm a perfectionist and I HATE being wrong, which is I why I'm holding back on my vote, still have 2 days left.

Anyways, the only 2 people I'm willing to vote for now are RR and faust (Teproc, why has RR moved so far up your town radar?) My instincts during day 2 that was something fishy was afoot ended up being correct, which clearly means my instincts on day 3 are correct too  . Unlike day 2, there've been quite a few people who haven't voted for faust, even though they said they're willing; that, faust, is the difference between you and jake. Teproc, per your question about faust's narrative for why he would claim as scum: I don't know, but you haven't voted for him yet, and that's all that matters. It's all just WIFOM, and trying to reason why someone would do something or not I'm now realizing is so futile. If you don't vote for them, clearly it wasn't useless.


I'd still most like to vote for Faust. A wagon of Skumpy, Galzria, and I think DatSwan at the start of the day and a wagon of XX, DatSwan, and Andrew now doesn't scare me from voting him the way the Jake wagons did. However, 2 points about faust I should acknowledge.

First, I see I was wrong about what made him claim, he was going to claim regardless of my threat. The 'why' is not the point at the moment, his opening post was a clear indicator that he was going to spill the beans. I wish more than ever I'd confronted him day 2.

Second (and this is directed towards mainly Galzria), I think analyzing his reasons for why he would roleblock me as town is very pointless. He's not scum who's coming up with a desperate lie to cover for his actions, and he would not argue his reasons if he himself didn't believe they were valid. When this game is over and the post-game talk starts, I'm sure that he will still defend his reasoning as sensible for town then, no matter what his alignment is. I don't think they are, but this is less of an alignment tell and more of an newbie vs vet tell (still stand by my thinking that it's a dumb reason; I DEFINITELY don't think it should bump me to the top of your town reads). Much more advantageous to think about why he would roleblock me as scum and decide if there's a good narrative there. I say there is. Teproc says there isn't, but that's based on his unfounded notion than I'm a VT. Again, nobody knows my role except me. Try and think you do, you don't.

Most willing to vote for faust still, I'll hold off until he's made his big defense. There's one thing in particular he hasn't really mentioned (maybe he has some) which I find kind of scummy, so we'll see if he does now. If he hasn't said anything in 24 hours, I'm definitely voting him.