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Author Topic: M105: Time Management Mafia (Game over!)  (Read 148039 times)

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faust

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #950 on: August 18, 2017, 04:41:43 am »

That was probably a bad argument as inevitably people will claim that it was scum!me's cunning plan to be scumread by literally every player in the game just so that I can make this argument.

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faust

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #951 on: August 18, 2017, 04:42:43 am »

So, Skumpy, Galzria, DatSwan are voting for me, Xx, RR, chairs, Andrew signaled they don't believe me... so everyone is willing to lynch me except maybe Teproc? Sound familiar?

Would you be cool with lynching Galz?

I mean, it's a better lynch than me, but I'm not particularly fond of it and would prefer to lynch one of Xx/DatSwan by a lot.
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faust

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #952 on: August 18, 2017, 04:44:49 am »

Galz is like right at the middle of my reads, it goes like

Skumpy
chairs

Andrew
Galzria

Roadrunner

Xx
DatSwan
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Teproc

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #953 on: August 18, 2017, 05:02:12 am »

ALright.

faust's claim makes perfect sense to me. Skumpy thinks it's scummy for faust to have changed his reads a lot: it is most definitely not, scum is generally more confident and consistent than town.

Galz, surprisingly, seems to find his choice of target scummy, but you would never, never roleblock the scummiest player around if you were trying to block the kill, because that's not the player the scumteam chooses to do the kill. Skumpy is a perfectly viable choice: wouldn't have been mine but if you're having serious doubts about him, it's a great choice eespecially bhecause there's a very real chance it completely clears Skumpy at some point. This setup makes that a bit difficult, but it's possible. It does make Skumpy even townier than he was in any case.

Now, faust is an excellent player, and is very able to do this very credible claim as scum. In fact his frustration might be of the "But I did everything like town!me would have, why doesn't anyone see that ?" variety. Possible, but that's not the vibe I get, and mostly I think faust is town from the whole game.

Oh yeah, I'm done with being cagey with my reads. My lynch pool today is

Andrew
RR
DatSwan
chairs
XXR

With the bottom being the scummiest, roughly. I am pretty convinced Galz is town, as I don't remember him being the type to feign not reading the setup as scum. The Rolestopper thing in particular, but that might not have been rolled... I will say that if there is a Watcher, they should be very confident that Galz is town. This is not an incitation to claim, at all, to be clear, but something to keep in mind if a Watcher does flip at some point.

vote: XXR
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Teproc

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #954 on: August 18, 2017, 05:03:43 am »

Oh, and I thionk XXR is scum mostly through PoE. He's the only player in the game that has never done anything townie, though DatSwan and chairs come pretty close.
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Teproc

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #955 on: August 18, 2017, 05:04:58 am »

Bear in mind that I have worst reads than everyone else, just mathematically. But there you go.
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chairs

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #956 on: August 18, 2017, 08:57:14 am »

I felt like I was contributing so I'm sad to see myself so low on your ratings, there, but yeah I could vote: raptor

Roadrunner7671

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #957 on: August 18, 2017, 11:58:18 am »

Bear in mind that I have worst reads than everyone else, just mathematically. But there you go.
How so?
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Galzria

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #958 on: August 18, 2017, 12:08:33 pm »

Bear in mind that I have worst reads than everyone else, just mathematically. But there you go.
How so?

He only knows his own alignment. Everybody else knows at least their own alignment plus his.
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #959 on: August 18, 2017, 12:36:22 pm »

Bear in mind that I have worst reads than everyone else, just mathematically. But there you go.
How so?

He only knows his own alignment. Everybody else knows at least their own alignment plus his.
Okay, I guess that's true.
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Teproc

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #960 on: August 18, 2017, 12:58:34 pm »

I felt like I was contributing so I'm sad to see myself so low on your ratings, there, but yeah I could vote: raptor

I didn't say you weren't contributing, you just haven't given me reasons to think you're town.
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Skumpy

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #961 on: August 18, 2017, 01:08:50 pm »

So, Skumpy, Galzria, DatSwan are voting for me, Xx, RR, chairs, Andrew signaled they don't believe me... so everyone is willing to lynch me except maybe Teproc? Sound familiar?

Yes, but we know much more today then we did yesterday.

ALright.

faust's claim makes perfect sense to me. Skumpy thinks it's scummy for faust to have changed his reads a lot: it is most definitely not, scum is generally more confident and consistent than town.

Galz, surprisingly, seems to find his choice of target scummy, but you would never, never roleblock the scummiest player around if you were trying to block the kill, because that's not the player the scumteam chooses to do the kill. Skumpy is a perfectly viable choice: wouldn't have been mine but if you're having serious doubts about him, it's a great choice eespecially bhecause there's a very real chance it completely clears Skumpy at some point. This setup makes that a bit difficult, but it's possible. It does make Skumpy even townier than he was in any case.

Now, faust is an excellent player, and is very able to do this very credible claim as scum. In fact his frustration might be of the "But I did everything like town!me would have, why doesn't anyone see that ?" variety. Possible, but that's not the vibe I get, and mostly I think faust is town from the whole game.

Oh yeah, I'm done with being cagey with my reads. My lynch pool today is

Andrew
RR
DatSwan
chairs
XXR

With the bottom being the scummiest, roughly. I am pretty convinced Galz is town, as I don't remember him being the type to feign not reading the setup as scum. The Rolestopper thing in particular, but that might not have been rolled... I will say that if there is a Watcher, they should be very confident that Galz is town. This is not an incitation to claim, at all, to be clear, but something to keep in mind if a Watcher does flip at some point.

vote: XXR

I just find it very suspicious that me getting roleblocked leads to "Unfortunately, you're town". If I'm skum team, I'm not making night kills based on who might get tracked/watched, I'm making them based on who has a role that is least important to use tonight. There'd be a 1/3 chance I'm a flavor cop (if we believe faust), in which case, there's no way I' d commit the kill. And scum isn't trying to get a clean sweep, they're trying to win. If that means potentially throwing their scummiest player under the bus, then why not? Faust roleblockling Galzria does nothing, for instance, to convince me Galzria's more town. I don't need to be more cleared and it will absolutely never 'completely clear me'. And yes, I think it's very scummy to block me over DatSwan, based on faust's posts yesterday.


Since everybody's chimed in well enough to their faust reads, here's my theory.

First off, looking back at it, obviously I was roleblocked. If faust is town, then he's not lying. If he's scum, then that means mod 1 is on and mod 2 is off (otherwise, he wouldn't claim it), meaning there's no flavor cop, meaning scum wouldn't know anything about my role. That means if they falsely claim to roleblock me and I was a PR who challenged him, then I would instantly call him out. faust may walk the walk and talk the talk, but he's not winning a WIFOM against me. It could be that mod 3, 4, 5 are all off, but that's quite unlikely to be the case. But it's still important for me to tell everybody if I know if I was indeed roleblocked, he says. That's not true whatsoever.

So if faust is scum, that means scum knows there's a doctor. It's also a small point in favor of Teproc not dying yet, but the 1-shot commuter is probably a bigger factor even if I am correct. Scum wants to kill TWM (Teproc's a risk). As I said before, that doesn't seem odd to me - nobody except XX has seriously accused him, and maybe his reads are good enough that he's considered a threat.

Let's assume that Galzria and Datswan are not town PR's lying to hide their roles (it's a possibility, but I hope not). So let's make the scum team faust/Galzria/Datswan to give scum minimum information possible about town PR's. Now TWM's getting killed and scum knows there's a doctor in one of Andrew/Chairs/RR/XX/Skumpy. Of those 5, if they were a doctor, which of those 5 would be most likely to heal TWM? Correct. So I get roleblocked.

I'd guess that mod 3 is probably off based on this. Otherwise, Rolestopping TWM would've taken care of both possibilities of healing and watching him (also, no watcher information this game yet), though it's not crazy to both Rolestop TWM and roleblock me, especially if I was tracker.

Which I why I'd also guess that mod 4 is on. Otherwise, I don't see why faust would come out and admit to roleblocking me unless he knew there was a chance someone would catch him, and with me, Galzria, and TWM starting to throw suspicion his way, he's a good candidate for the tracker's target.

I'm not sure about mod 5. I'd lean slightly towards on just to a) deny faust a very believable claim and b) try to add some credibility to roleblockling me.


It's my theory against his "I decided you were scum because you didn't vote Jake and you OMGUS'ed even though literally everybody had been willing to vote for an innocent person, and now that you've been roleblocked once, I'm now absolutely convinced you're town".


Now onto a post about the Teproc-on-XX vote! Hold tight!
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Skumpy

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #962 on: August 18, 2017, 01:14:47 pm »

As I've said, XX is obviously not my top choice for today but he's up there. I can try reading back and seeing if what he's done strikes me more on the scum or the tentative-newbie side.

Two concerns I have about the lynch that occur to me (I haven't thought through it enough yet to consider more pros and cons)

1. Everybody's going to accuse him because he hasn't done anything townie, like they did with Jake yesterday (and like how I started with faust, sure, but that's not important right now).

2. If faust and I are both town, as Teproc believes, then there were 5 town voting for another 1. Then what's the reasoning behind a 5-2 vote on day 1 and XX voting for Robz?

Still, there's a lot against him. I think it's the wrong choice for today, but what do I know, I'm not going to say anybody's a bad lynch now that TWM has moved onto the next life.
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #963 on: August 18, 2017, 01:35:59 pm »

Kinda disappointed Teproc, I personally feel very strongly about Galz and faust. xx isn't the worst lynch I guess.
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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #964 on: August 18, 2017, 01:44:56 pm »

I don't dictate the lynch. If you want to lynch Galzria, you can do so: it certainly didn't end up stopping anyone on day 2, and just because I was right once doesn't mean I'm right now.
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Teproc

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #965 on: August 18, 2017, 01:49:18 pm »

Galzria and DatSwan lying as town is not a possibility worth considering.

Yes, the possible existence (definite existence in the town!faust scenario) of mafia PRs would be a reason for scum!you not to do the kill, Skumpy. It means that you don't get entirely cleared, but you still are generally more likely to do the kill than anyone else if you're scum, on N2.

A whole wagon being town is not particularly improbable. I mean statistically it is, but not disproportionately so I think.
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Galzria

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #966 on: August 18, 2017, 06:06:42 pm »

Is it worth considering a Doctor claim? If there's no Doctor then Faust must be town, correct? Since Mod 1 would be off, then the only way Skumpy is blocked is by town!Faust with Mod 2... Yes?
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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #967 on: August 18, 2017, 06:14:25 pm »

Is it worth considering a Doctor claim? If there's no Doctor then Faust must be town, correct? Since Mod 1 would be off, then the only way Skumpy is blocked is by town!Faust with Mod 2... Yes?

We have no way of confirming that faust did roleblock Skumpy. So, no.
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Skumpy

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #968 on: August 18, 2017, 06:22:41 pm »

Is it worth considering a Doctor claim? If there's no Doctor then Faust must be town, correct? Since Mod 1 would be off, then the only way Skumpy is blocked is by town!Faust with Mod 2... Yes?

I thought about this, but the problem is scum could claim Doctor if mod 1 is off, and we don't even get any WIFOM out of it. I'm not going to shut it down completely right now though.

We have no way of confirming that faust did roleblock Skumpy. So, no.

As I've said before, I don't see an explanation for how he would lie about roleblockling me, be he scum or town. Town, he tells the truth. Scum, there's no Flavor Cop, he doesn't know if I'm a PR, so if my role was to succeed and I know he's lying, he's busted.
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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #969 on: August 18, 2017, 06:29:54 pm »

It's pretty easy: scum!faust knows the setup. if this setup doesn't have a Tracker or a Watcher, he can claim whatever the hell he wants.

If there is one of those two, it's likely that faust did target you last night, and most likely that means he's a roleblocker of either alignment.

But it doesn't add up to "well if someone claims Doctor we can confirm faust as town". Because
a) Scum can fakeclaim Doctor.
b) We can't know if faust did roleblock you last night.
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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #970 on: August 18, 2017, 06:31:48 pm »

To go back to relevant topics: what is the narrative for scum!faust claiming here ? Why did he do that ?
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Galzria

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #971 on: August 18, 2017, 06:41:52 pm »

Is it worth considering a Doctor claim? If there's no Doctor then Faust must be town, correct? Since Mod 1 would be off, then the only way Skumpy is blocked is by town!Faust with Mod 2... Yes?

We have no way of confirming that faust did roleblock Skumpy. So, no.

If you believe Skumpy is town, then we do. Or at least that he was in fact blocked. He has said that he knows he was. In fact, regardless of Skumpy's alignment he probably was. Look at how he entered today! It's possible him and Faust are scum together and the whole set of interactions were planned... but as I think Skumpy is town I don't see that as likely.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #972 on: August 18, 2017, 06:45:39 pm »

To go back to relevant topics: what is the narrative for scum!faust claiming here ? Why did he do that ?

It's literally the same play I made in M100 as scum and carried to a 4 consecutive day mislynch to win for scum.

It's the beauty of the claim. It works perfectly from a town or scum perspective  regardless of alignment I believe Faust is telling the truth.

I simply believe he's scum, not town. I'll detail the read further when I get home - but I've done so previously already.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #973 on: August 18, 2017, 06:47:36 pm »

Is it worth considering a Doctor claim? If there's no Doctor then Faust must be town, correct? Since Mod 1 would be off, then the only way Skumpy is blocked is by town!Faust with Mod 2... Yes?

We have no way of confirming that faust did roleblock Skumpy. So, no.

If you believe Skumpy is town, then we do. Or at least that he was in fact blocked. He has said that he knows he was. In fact, regardless of Skumpy's alignment he probably was. Look at how he entered today! It's possible him and Faust are scum together and the whole set of interactions were planned... but as I think Skumpy is town I don't see that as likely.

Um, what ?
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Re: M105: Time Management Mafia (D3)
« Reply #974 on: August 18, 2017, 06:49:20 pm »

You've detailed your reasoning and it included notions about who to roleblock which I think ar completely wrong.
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