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[Teproc]

Actually don't answer that. We can deal with it later. For now I'm mostly interested in the lurkers speaking.

[Galzria]

Look: If I roleblock a scummy player, it's no use, because even if they are scum, they won't perform the kill.

This doesn't follow. First off, if you target and hit a scum player, you have a 33% chance to block the kill. Secondly, there are 3 scum. 2 of them could have actively useful scum!PR's (The third could still have one as well if there is a Universal Backup, but then they would be a Cop Enabler, which I don't know how that interacts with being Roleblocked). Assuming you want to stop Scum from using their PR's (not town)... why would you not block a scum read again? Not to mention....  if you blocked the scum doing the kill you would stop the kill. Why would you EVER not target a top scum read with Roleblocker?

I had you on the townie side, but the last couple of posts were scummish and I thought that you have sufficient townreads that if you are scum, you would perform the kill.

Here you suggest that in the last few posts from D2 you thought Skumpy was getting scummier. I don't recall you mentioning anything to this effect D2 - but if I'm wrong, please point me to your posts. Regardless, you then opened today with:

No surprises there.

Vote: Faust

No surprises indeed. Unfortunately, you are town.

How does your blocking him, and him (if scum) not taking the shot last night suddenly mean "Unfortunately, you are town". You gained no such information from your claimed action. All your claimed action tells you is that Skumpy, regardless of alignment, did nothing last night.

I blocked you and we had a kill, so there's that.

This, does not equal:

Unfortunately, you are town.

[Teproc]

Hrrmph. Let's repeat: I'd like to hear from the people who've we've heard little of throughout this game. That does not include you. I understand you have things you want to talk about, I get that, but the whole problem with this game is that you and TWM and me and Skumpy have been talking around, in circles, not getting anywhere.

So, let's hear what these other guys have to say about faust's claim, and then you can have that discussion.

[Galzria]

Hrrmph. Let's repeat: I'd like to hear from the people who've we've heard little of throughout this game. That does not include you. I understand you have things you want to talk about, I get that, but the whole problem with this game is that you and TWM and me and Skumpy have been talking around, in circles, not getting anywhere.

So, let's hear what these other guys have to say about faust's claim, and then you can have that discussion.

I'm going to assume this is directed at me.

I'll step out for now then. Need to head into work for a few hours anyway. But the game just started up again! It's hard not to want to post and be involved.



/sadpanda

[Teproc]

To also be clear to the people in question: you need to step it up. Refer to my signature.  I am most definitely not happy with the way things are going, which is why I'm doing this, and you should similarly be looking at how we got to where we are now, and try to stop it from happening again. We're not quite at MyLo/LyLo yet, let's avoid getting there.

So Andrew, DatSwan, RR and XXRaptor: get to work, re: faust's claim and other things too if you feel like it, but the floor is yours.

PPE: It was. Sorry.

[Skumpy]

Teproc, may I have your permission to discuss the rules of the game with you really quickly? It needs to be a player, I don't wanna go the wiki.

[Teproc]

Obviously, yes. You don't literally need my permission to post, I'm not a megalomaniac, I'm just worried that we're repeating the patterns that have gotten us here.

That being said, if it's about the rules, are you sure the answers aren't in the opening post either ?

[Skumpy]

Sorry, I just don't want to get yelled at.

It says in the rule clarifications: "Rolestopping doesn't stop kills". What's the point of that, unless in the .0001% chance scum decides to rolestop themselves for some weird reason?

[Swowl]

Sorry I woke up late

IDK what I am supposed to like say at this point in the game. My main read has now recently switched, which is Galz. I no longer currently am sitting on him as skum.

I am going to be a little short on post for the rest of this IRL day because I am taking the IC advice and re reading D2 as if Jake was Town. Mainly because I was SO SURE he was skum I didn't even bother targeting him, so now I do not know what I missed.

Xx and Chairs need to speak up a bit. I can't speak for Chairs but my read on Xx to this point is if you ask him a direct question he will answer.

PPE

Also a note - this day is starting with Faust the same way D2 was starting with Jake. Don't know what that means, just kind of pointing it out since I have to acknowledged my Jake read was wrong.

[Teproc]

Rolestopping, as it name indicates, is here to stop roles.

Let's say you're worried that one of the members of the scum teams might be targeted by a Cop. Or that the member performing the kill might get roleblocked, or tracked. Well, rolestopping them means you're safe on those fronts.

In the same way, if you think your NK target is likely to be Doctored, rolestopping the target will take care of that.

Rolestopping is, in fact, a very powerful tool for scum in this setup.

[Teproc]

DatSwan, what do you think of faust's claim ?

[Skumpy]

Rolestopping, as it name indicates, is here to stop roles.

Let's say you're worried that one of the members of the scum teams might be targeted by a Cop. Or that the member performing the kill might get roleblocked, or tracked. Well, rolestopping them means you're safe on those fronts.

In the same way, if you think your NK target is likely to be Doctored, rolestopping the target will take care of that.

Rolestopping is, in fact, a very powerful tool for scum in this setup.

OK, I totally should've looked at the wiki, you're right. I apologize. Now I gotta rethink, but my vote's staying on faust.

[AndrewisFTTW]

What do I think of faust's claim? I think people should stop randomly claiming for no effing reason. If Galz and faust turn out to be town, then their claims combined with Jake's ridiculously bad self-vote are very bad for town. I happen to still think Galz is scum though.

Vote: Galz

Gonna reread yesterday a little bit.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Super tame debate that could easily be two team members:

And scum!you has a history of premature fakeclaims.

This has been bothering me as well. Because you stated it as fact to a group of players that are relatively new (and even many of the non-new haven't played with me) - and it's categorically false. It's based on a single game where the timing and use of the claim single handily carried me throughout the game to a victory for my faction. It was perfectly placed, and perfectly executed. It worked, and we won.

I'm not sure what the point of this is, or how it shows that M100 was different from now.

The point was more that you used an example erroneously to portray me in a scummy light - by giving a false representation of a claim made in a different game where I WAS scum and comparing it to here where I'm not.

How was the respresentation false? (I clarified in the post below the one you quoted that it wasn't actually a fakeclaim there)

The emphasis there should have been made clear by my point, but as it seems not to have been: I believe you've tried to paint this claim as "premature" and thus scummy by comparing it to M100 when I, in your words, "have a history of premature claims as scum".- but that's not true. My claim timing as scum was impeccable, and won my faction the game. I hope to do the same for town here (and only time will tell) - but your characterization is falsely stated to make me appear scummy for reasons that don't match up.

Yes, your claim timing as scum was good. Had you been town that game, it would have been premature. That is exactly the point I am making.

Ah, well, yes. In that game, had I been town, I agree. But I disagree with that intent being what you stated before. With that correction, I have no disagreement.

[Teproc]

Oh, right, thank you for reminding me.

SELF-VOTING AS TOWN IS NEVER GOOD. NEVER. DON'T.

Worth repeating, apparently.

[Galzria]

Oh, right, thank you for reminding me.

SELF-VOTING AS TOWN IS NEVER GOOD. NEVER. DON'T.

Worth repeating, apparently.

This. Forever this.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Gonna go ahead and throw this out for reason whatsoever:

Scum team: Galz/xxraptor/faust

[Teproc]

Gonna go ahead and throw this out for reason whatsoever:

Scum team: Galz/xxraptor/faust

Great. Well, not great because hunting for scumteams is generally foolish, but you know that.

Did you get anything else from your reread of D2 ?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Gonna go ahead and throw this out for reason whatsoever:

Scum team: Galz/xxraptor/faust

Great. Well, not great because hunting for scumteams is generally foolish, but you know that.

Did you get anything else from your reread of D2 ?

Not hunting for a team, just felt like putting that out there. Gotta do some IRL stuff right now, I'll get back to the reread later. Sorry!

[Teproc]

Right, well, I'm going to sleep as well. I'd still like DatSwan to answer that question (what do you think of faust's claim) and XXraptor and RR to get here and post something meaningful.

[Roadrunner7671]

I hve a tentative town read on e

[AndrewisFTTW]

About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Both players who since flipped town are on there. I am town, of course you don't know that, and I have town reads on TWM and Skumpy. So it is very much possible that this is an all-town wagon. Which is definitely interesting for an easy mislynch like Jake.

It also was not a quick wagon, but happened over the course of a hundred posts, plenty of time for scum to join in unsuspiciously.

So yeah, combined with the 1-shot Commuter thing (which I remember at the beginning of the game and then forgot) that I think makes Galzria more likely to be town, I am ready to vote: Jake again.

I think Skumpy is town, so that leaves faust as the odd one out on this wagon from D1. I doubt all 5 are town. Possible, but I doubt it.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Galz votes D2:

Starts off the day voting faust:

Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

... what?

Fine. Vote: Galzria

Are you voting me because you think it's bad play, or because you think I'm scum?

vote: faust

Switches to DatSwan:

vote: DatSwan

I could also be convinced to vote TWM, Andrew or Chairs.

DatSwan of all the new players is the one that strikes me as trying the least - and yes, he was VLA most of D1 but he's been back since. More though, I think he was coached to play it quiet. Skumpy is Skumpy. I find him townie overall but wouldn't be shocked if he flipped scum. XxRaptor DEFINITELY would've played the "hard-to-get involved" card a lot harder if he was scum (He had never heard of Mafia before I started talking about M100). And that leaves DatSwan, who has played Mafia both in an online format before as well as in person.

As for the others:
TWM comes of as FAR more reserved and less abrasive than he's been in every previous game I've seen him. He's always been town, which leads me to lean scum here.

Chairs hesitancy and phraseology reminds of Robz' "This day is insane" scum verbiage. I remember Chairs being a much louder player, and here it feels as if he's trying to skate by.

Andrew because I still hold that his D1 play was a potential scum tell

Switches to me:

Let's look at Andrew's opinion:

"I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on wagons"

- So, Andrew, Jake and DatSwan are town. Good to know. And Teproc. And Robz and Gkrieg. Holy **** this is easy.
- Good. Now we just need 3 scum in 7: Roadrunner, Galzria, XxRaptor, TWM, Skumpy, Faust & Chairs.
- 5/7 of us were on Robz. TWM & faust were on Jake.
- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!
- Right. Here we go. Let's figure out the entire scum team that's voting Robz. Oh, wait...

"I don't think it would necessarily have made the lynch easier"

You're right. 3 scum being together on one townie taking 7 to lynch REALLY doesn't make getting that lynch through easier....

Haha. The logic is ridiculous. vote: Andrew. I'll still do DatSwan, but between that, his "logic" from the opening of d1, and his "knowing" I'm town d1... yeah, I'm good here.

I'm pretty confident DatSwan is town, based on how Galz has pushed him. So fast forward to:

- Is TWM Scum? No? Is faust? Then the entire scum team was voting Robz! Man, this gets easier and easier!

Vote Count 1.final:

Robz888 (7): Galzria, chairs, Xxraptorslayer96, Skumpy, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671, Teproc
JaketheBaseballGod22 (3): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant
Skumpy (1): JaketheBaseballGod22

Not voting (2): DatSwan, AndrewisFTTW

Galz mocks the idea of the whole scum team voting Robz and I agree that is unlikely. So assuming DatSwan is town, and knowing that TWM is town, that again leaves faust.

Back to DatSwan:

Hum....

Back to vote: DatSwan for now.

I do believe that there was scum not voting. I simply don't believe we struggled that much to get things moving with all 3 scum on board.  And there's a laundry list of reasons I've found Andrew scummy.... But like yesterday the more I've pushed him the less I've wanted to lynch him.

I disagree with a lot of what he's said, but at the very least he's not backed down from defending himself - and that's worth something.

Jake for no good reason:

I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake

Not a vote but an interesting answer to TWM's question:

If you are town, who do you think responded the most scummly to your claim?

Well, that's interesting. I think scum probably split. It's an easy push as "bad town play" {Faust, Andrew, Jake} - but I also honestly expect some town to feel this way as well - so it's not really a scum!tell to react that way. That said, Faust by far was the scummiest of these reactions simply because I didn't at ALL feel like he was voting me because he thought I was scum. His vote felt made because he thought it would be easy.

On the other hand, scum doesn't really have the need to jump on it. I'm going to get heat regardless so they can wait and watch. In the group that acknowledged it but didn't engage it you have {TWM, Skumpy, Roadrunner, Chairs, DatSwan}. Of these you and Skumpy have my most expected scum reactions (Almost literally "We'll wait and see") - but I town read you both so... Interesting note on Roadrunner... he's the only player to give me town credit for the play which I don't at all think was warranted... So definitely stands out for that.

Lastly there's the group that I don't recall even acknowledging it {XxRaptor}. This very well could be a "don't wanna shoot myself in the foot" scum play.

So... in order, discounting all other reasons for reads:

Faust -> TWM -> Skumpy -> XxRaptor -> Roadrunner -> Chairs -> DatSwan -> Andrew -> Jake

He ranks faust as reacting the scummiest to his claim ("by far"!).

Not a vote, but says he could vote RR:

vote: RR

I could get behind this.

faust expresses a townread on Galz:

You guys think TWM self-voting is scummier than Galz claiming VT? I'm reading TWM and pretty towny actually. I could vote Galz or Jake, let's go with Galz for now.

Vote: Galz

It's interesting to see our reads align as much. Though I can still see Galzria as misguided town.

faust vote after Jake hammers himself:

Bleh. unvote.

That won't look pretty but I don't really care. If Jake is scum I'll gladly be the following lynch for looking the fool here. The wagon doesn't match with my analysis the last few days though.

I know it's kinda jumping the shark to assume Jake is town but my gut says it's a bad lynch - and if that's right then I think my analysis regarding there being 2 scum in {Chairs, RR, Faust, Raptor} is correct. And, well... I don't know a better way to turn the conversation towards them. They've received so little collective suspicion and there's so much else going on it feels like they're set on cruise... and I can't shake the feeling of being played.

I think I want to join Skumpy on vote: faust for now.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

For now I'm mostly interested in the lurkers speaking.

Rip Jake & TWM

I will have to reread what has happened today. Currently have my eye on Galz, Chairs and faust.
Probably because I'm new, Good players come off as scummy

Xx to this point is if you ask him a direct question he will answer.

This is also true

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm not counterclaming Faust, but let me look at the setup and see how dubious it is.