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[Swowl]

Hypothetical - RR flips scum. Does this effect anyone's opinion on a Jake lynch?

[Swowl]

Posted the previous PPE.

Teproc - reasoning?

You did it to me too earlier on. Voted with no context I mean. What are your thoughts?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Teproc is IC. He doesn't need to give reasons. So don't bother asking. If you ask, it makes you more suspicious in my opinion.

I wanted to point out that RR is townie for his last-minute vote. I think scum!RR is more likely to let the deadline pass and force a no-lynch than to be the decisive vote on a town wagon.

If RR is going to be the lynch I think the above needs to be resolved. I have already said I don't think RR should be getting town points for it, but he at least showed up.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I am having this weird conundrum of being hesitant to defend RR out of fear that he is actually scum and I just really don't want to be the town idiot on the wrong side of a scum lynch again and have to be the focal point of suspicion for the rest of the game.

Which is silly because if he is scum and gets lynched that is all that should matter. But this is just going to show that my bad play in my last few games is actively affecting this one, despite my best efforts to not let it.

I think I have the yips.

[Roadrunner7671]

I am having this weird conundrum of being hesitant to defend RR out of fear that he is actually scum 

Does this occur with other players or is it unique to defending RR?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I am having this weird conundrum of being hesitant to defend RR out of fear that he is actually scum 

Does this occur with other players or is it unique to defending RR?

This is the first time it has happened this way. It is mostly happening with anyone that is a milder read. It didn't occur with Skumpy or it hasn't really happened with anyone I have been scum reading. I am feeling it with Galz to an extent.

[Swowl]

Teproc is IC. He doesn't need to give reasons. So don't bother asking. If you ask, it makes you more suspicious in my opinion.

I wanted to point out that RR is townie for his last-minute vote. I think scum!RR is more likely to let the deadline pass and force a no-lynch than to be the decisive vote on a town wagon.

If RR is going to be the lynch I think the above needs to be resolved. I have already said I don't think RR should be getting town points for it, but he at least showed up.

I am not questioning you here TWM, your opinion is yours to have. 

However, as IC Teproc has a completely unbiased opinion. As Town I would like to know what that opinion is. As it is known, I am newer to this, but as the IC is a GTD townie, wouldn't the winning plan be to divulge as much useful information as possible? It's not like Teproc can explain himself and someone is going to think he's skum or because of it.

[faust]

Catching up now. I'll respond to posts as I see them.

Out of curiosity, is there anybody who believes Jake is a bad lynch today? Judging from past games, he is often a victim of the mislynch, right? I don't want to defend him, but if he is town, it's an easy lynch to make happen. I don't know...something feels very amiss. Am I just paranoid...

I am wanting him to show that he isn't a bad lynch. He has failed to do so thus far. So he is a good lynch.

I'd rather find a better lynch than defend myself.

Would have been nice to see some initiavite before there's a wagon on you.

[faust]

vote: DatSwan

I could also be convinced to vote TWM, Andrew or Chairs.

DatSwan of all the new players is the one that strikes me as trying the least - and yes, he was VLA most of D1 but he's been back since. More though, I think he was coached to play it quiet. Skumpy is Skumpy. I find him townie overall but wouldn't be shocked if he flipped scum. XxRaptor DEFINITELY would've played the "hard-to-get involved" card a lot harder if he was scum (He had never heard of Mafia before I started talking about M100). And that leaves DatSwan, who has played Mafia both in an online format before as well as in person.

As for the others:
TWM comes of as FAR more reserved and less abrasive than he's been in every previous game I've seen him. He's always been town, which leads me to lean scum here.

Chairs hesitancy and phraseology reminds of Robz' "This day is insane" scum verbiage. I remember Chairs being a much louder player, and here it feels as if he's trying to skate by.

Andrew because I still hold that his D1 play was a potential scum tell

I've already questioned this, and I find it hard to believe that Galzria would be able to spot the difference between "coached to play quiet" and just being quiet because that's your style.

[faust]

You guys think TWM self-voting is scummier than Galz claiming VT? I'm reading TWM and pretty towny actually. I could vote Galz or Jake, let's go with Galz for now.

Vote: Galz

It's interesting to see our reads align as much. Though I can still see Galzria as misguided town.

[faust]

Also townie from Datswan. I think new scum would jump on my vote.

I'm reading TWM and pretty towny actually.

Weird that they would have a town read chain going...

vote: DatSwan

I could also be convinced to vote TWM, Andrew or Chairs.

This must be the most ridiculous form of confirmation bias I have ever seen.

[faust]

OK so here is the thing - I am VT.

This is interesting. I tend to say townie?

Also out of curiosity, is there a special reason behind your spelling of "skum"?

[faust]

Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).

I could maybe let this stand for Andrew, but it seems very problematic to accuse VLA!DatSwan here.

Plus if one of the wagons was on scum, the reasoning doesn't really hold that well.

[faust]

[...]
Hence my strong belief that there is at least one scum amongst {DatSwan, Andrew}.

That's fine in terms of reasoning (but dismissing a bus on Jake this easily seems dangerous). It does require us to accept either the scenario of {Jake scum, Galzria town} or {Jake town}. And the group splitting of the former scenario seems a bit arbitrary.

[faust]

Fine.

vote: XXraptor

How did we get there?

[faust]

A lot of people expressed surprise from Galz's VT claim but not so many reads. Does anybody else think Galz would never claim VT as town?

Never? I can't think of a reason why anyone would never do something. Granted he, hasn't fully explained why he claimed VT (at least as far as I can remember), but I for one haven't felt the need to ask him at this juncture. Maybe in the future.

Ok but do you really think it was something town!Galz is more likely to do?

I don't think I have enough data to determine that. But I think if galz did it, he did it with a reason. I do want to hear the reason at some point, but probably not right now.

He already gave the reasoning, and well it was subpar.

[faust]

Actual question - if I am VT does he claim still hurt town iyo?

Yes. Scum at night is primarily trying to hunt for PRs to eliminate them as PRs are the biggest threat. When a town player claims VT scum knows their alignment and knows they are unlikely to be lying, therefore they can use process of elimination to night kill other players that have not claimed as they are more likely to be a PR than the claimed player.

^Exactly why you don't prematurely claim. Galz knows this. Town!Galz would not do this.

So would Scum!Galz. I think Galz of either alignment had a reason. And not just a "this won't get me lynched" reason if he is scum. Scum!Galz would have a reason. Town!Galz would have a reason, I have to think.

Notable fact is that scum knows the setup. Many PRs means scum will be forced into VT claims and this makes such claims more dangerous. scum!Galzria might have seen this and decided to make his claim stick out.

[faust]

Also, like I said you're being condescending and trying to make me look like some idiot, which I don't appreciate and which I'm not doing to you. So please cut that out.

Strongly seconded.

[faust]

[...]

I have no idea why you take Andrew's "I don't think it's unlikely that all 3 scum were on-wagon" as "I definitely think it must be true that all three scum were on-wagon", but that's obviously bullshit reasoning.

[faust]

I am almost absolutely convinced there's 1 scum among Jake and Faust.

Why?

I would really like one dead today, and if they're town, the other dead tomorrow (Is that too psychopathic?)

Well, setting up who you want to lynch tomorrow in case of a mislynch is generally considered scummy (even if scum never ever actually does it).

If Faust is scum, then there was scum on the Jake wagon yesterday, which helps explain why it wasn't finished: they were already there.

Well even then I would only be one of them. Who do you think are my partners in that scenario?

[faust]

If Jake is lynched and town, faust will likely be the first place I will be looking.

Well let's just hope he flips scum then. Also setting up mislynches yada yada

[faust]

Exercise for those of you voting me:

If I'm lynched, I'll flip town.

- Assume we're at that point right now. In twilight.  Reactions? Thoughts on who scum actually is?

"Well, I'm going to have some rereading to do tomorrow. That VT claim really sucked though."

I don't think you flipping town would change my reads all that much. I might want to reevaluate my town read on Andrew, but that's about it.

[faust]

Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.

After rereading, vote: Jake

May be L-1? I don't care all that much. Given the situation we definitely want Jake to claim right away.

[Swowl]

So... Faust is back

[faust]

I felt a little responsible for his death as I WAS on the morning of the lynch and posted that I wasn't going to change and I felt that was a catalyst for him getting lynched instead of Jake.

Good job ignoring that it was actually you who started that wagon.

I expected to get hate for it. Going against the grain will always be controversial. But I do think that between all the interactions and the uncertainty over the claim that it will work out for town in the long run.

It will work out in giving you an excuse for not getting nightkilled, and now with this post you even left a back door open for revoking your claim.