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[Galzria]

Also...
vote: Galz

You were already (unsurprisingly) voting me.

[Skumpy]

New/Old thought which I've probably said but want to emphasize. I have not done much reading back through day 2 to try and support said idea but:

Vote: faust

I am almost absolutely convinced there's 1 scum among Jake and Faust. I would really like one dead today, and if they're town, the other dead tomorrow (Is that too psychopathic?)

If Faust is scum, then there was scum on the Jake wagon yesterday, which helps explain why it wasn't finished: they were already there.

If Jake is scum, then it was very likely an all-town wagon on him, and mafia didn't want to lose someone day 1.

Why faust over Jake for me? Well, I don't really know. If it's Jake today, I'm OK with that, but not where I want to place a vote to set up a hammer, not now anyways. I really don't expect this to work, and I could be totally wrong on the person - Jake could just be a very obvious scum and I'm overthinking it - I'm just following instincts. I seem to remember that the 10-year-old mafia players would act very buddy-buddy and be very helpful, which is what faust has done with me mostly. I don't think faust is 10, but maybe it's applicable if he thinks I'm in over my head, which I am.

Remember, this is all newbie talk, so you can't blame me after the game when I'm wrong!

PPE DatSwan's stuffs and Galz stuff

[Skumpy]

Also DatSwan: I don't believe we've talked yet (reading your post now though).

Hi! I'm Skumpy.

[Galzria]

I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake

So okay. I'm not sure I like this. Lemme try to phrase my thoughts in a way that will make sense to you and others.

Before, you had expressed a not-scum read on Jake, meaning that you didn't see the scum motive for things he did (like not being on the Robz wagon). All of a sudden, you flip yourself onto Jake because he hasn't been answering questions. He hasn't been doing this the entire game, but your vote comes a few posts after he doesn't really answer a question about your and DatSwan's claim. I feel like you're only voting for Jake because you got 'involved' with him, given that his question he didn't answer was about you. This seems defensive to me, and I'd like you to respond to it before we continue. I feel like your response(s) to this are gonna basically make or break my read on you.
PPE

I'll get too this, but probably not tonight.

But I'm not trying to "make or break" your read of me. You're so far off my radar that there's a decent chance you're scum - but even if you're not, at very worst you vote me, lynch me, and get a CRAP ton of information from the interactions I've created today.

So I will answer you - because I've no reason not to - but I don't really care about the veiled threat made at the end of your post.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

If Jake is lynched and town, faust will likely be the first place I will be looking.

I kinda want to look there now. faust has seemed off and different, but this is off and different from any version of faust I have seen, scum or town. So I don't think it is likely very alignment related. But he has been the most persistent, while at the same time quiet, about pushing Jake's lynch.

Jake what do you think of faust in particular? Same rules apply as with previous questions if you don't mind?

[Skumpy]

Side note: If this is genuine town TWM, then I'd like to be scum with TWM at some point. It sounds like it would be fun.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm in agreement right now. Jake is either scum or being intentionally unhelpful when asked simple straightforward questions. And it carries a decent narrative for everything that's happened so far. I didn't really lean scum on him earlier in the day, but the combination of my own analysis yesterday and the way he's chosen to interact and respond...

I'm good with vote: Jake

So okay. I'm not sure I like this. Lemme try to phrase my thoughts in a way that will make sense to you and others.

Before, you had expressed a not-scum read on Jake, meaning that you didn't see the scum motive for things he did (like not being on the Robz wagon). All of a sudden, you flip yourself onto Jake because he hasn't been answering questions. He hasn't been doing this the entire game, but your vote comes a few posts after he doesn't really answer a question about your and DatSwan's claim. I feel like you're only voting for Jake because you got 'involved' with him, given that his question he didn't answer was about you. This seems defensive to me, and I'd like you to respond to it before we continue. I feel like your response(s) to this are gonna basically make or break my read on you.
PPE

I'll get too this, but probably not tonight.

But I'm not trying to "make or break" your read of me. You're so far off my radar that there's a decent chance you're scum - but even if you're not, at very worst you vote me, lynch me, and get a CRAP ton of information from the interactions I've created today.

So I will answer you - because I've no reason not to - but I don't really care about the veiled threat made at the end of your post.

That absolutely wasn't a threat. It's similar to what happened one time where I had a conversation with 2.7 that made me 100% sure he was town. I feel like this is a very similar situation.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

On Skumpy's point about Jake voters.

Others have mentioned that the Jake wagon go to its zenith Day 1 at this point - (5) faust, Robz, Skumpy, TWM, gkrieg

Day 2 it reached its peak at this points

- (4) TWM, chairs, Raptor, faust - toward beginning of day
- (4) chairs, Raptor, faust, RR - middle of day
- (5) faust, RR, TWM, Galz, chairs - currently

So as Skumpy points out the only players that haven't voted for Jake are Andrew, Datswan and Jake himself and Teproc.

All others have voted for Jake at a somewhat crucial time. Skumpy is probably the lone exception to that, as his vote left at a time that would have been convenient had he been bussing early. But that does mean he was bussing pretty early and for a good chunk of Day 1--I think he left with less than 24 hours to go as well, so that is cutting it pretty close.

So we are then left, as Skumpy said with the following:

- either scum bussed at some point (in relatively crucial times, and seeing how early scum lynches can hurt significantly I think scum are less inclined to do that, but that mostly only applies to Day 1 I think). So bussing scum could be Raptor, chairs, RR or Galz.

- scum hasn't bussed at all and the team is Andrew, Datswan and Jake. I think that unlikely. I think Jake is almost always bussed to a small, or even large extent by team mates when he is scum. He is an easy person to buss.

If Jake is town then I guess the question becomes why hasn't he been lynched yet? Possibly due to Teproc slowing down the wagon. Scum already being on or being unwilling to get on?

If already on that points pretty strongly to faust and chairs.

If unwilling to get on that leads toward Andrew and Datswan as they haven't voted, and maybe Skumpy. But why wouldn't they vote there? Or there is just a plain mix of being on/off.

Ugh. I think I am kinda talking myself out of voting for Jake.

My reads are just completely shot at this point and I am over thinking the game and getting nothing out of anything.

unvote

[Skumpy]

OK, I was not aware faust was on Jake now and Jake was at L-1 before TWM unvoted. Vote count fix please?

TWM: So you know I wasn't just on Jake with less than 24 hours to go, I was on him with less than 7. Also, RR was there 12 hours before the lynch. He had said he wanted to vote Jake over Robz, and he didn't, and waited until the deadline. If I had checked in and seen 6 votes, I would've been stuck with Jake, and even if I had flipped, gkrieg wouldn't have. And stop agreeing with me please, it's actually starting to frighten me.

Question for TWM: Why do you not think scum currently (or at some point today) bussing Jake is the most likely scenario?

I don't think I have anymore insight to add until others have chimed in. It's definitely gonna hurt that Jake's gone tomorrow.

[Galzria]

Skumpy hasn't pushed him today though at any of the key wagon points, and notably he was the person (with Gkrieg) to switch the lynch yesterday from Jake to Robz. And here he's working to take heat off Jake.

[Galzria]

Faust is on me,  yes? Jake was L-2.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

About Jake. This is his wagon at peak:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

Both players who since flipped town are on there. I am town, of course you don't know that, and I have town reads on TWM and Skumpy. So it is very much possible that this is an all-town wagon. Which is definitely interesting for an easy mislynch like Jake.

It also was not a quick wagon, but happened over the course of a hundred posts, plenty of time for scum to join in unsuspiciously.

So yeah, combined with the 1-shot Commuter thing (which I remember at the beginning of the game and then forgot) that I think makes Galzria more likely to be town, I am ready to vote: Jake again.

I think this was faust's last vote

[Skumpy]

TWM beat me by 6 seconds.

I said earlier that I strongly suspect one of faust and Jake is scum. Another point of interest: it's curious how faust and Galzria have been at each other's throats for 2 days straight, and now they're both voting Jake. Make of that what you will (that you includes faust, galz, and jake)

[The_Wine_Merchant]

But I do see the vote count was off. I wasn't going off those, was going off actual votes.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Question for TWM: Why do you not think scum currently (or at some point today) bussing Jake is the most likely scenario?

Mostly I don't see why it would be necessary for them to do so. It has never been a slam dunk that he would get lynched. Teproc, the IC, is very cool on it. I think they could be bussing, but I don't think this is a scenario where scum would come in and feel super compelled to buss.

So if they aren't bussing that leaves, you (which you already showed were bussing more than I realized Day 1) Andrew and Datswan. And Teproc. This game would make more sense if he could be scum. 

[The_Wine_Merchant]

The ones that could be bussing are the ones that joined later. So mostly Galz.

[Galzria]

Exercise for those of you voting me:

If I'm lynched, I'll flip town.

- Assume we're at that point right now. In twilight.  Reactions? Thoughts on who scum actually is?

[Galzria]

Exercise for those of you voting me:

If I'm lynched, I'll flip town.

- Assume we're at that point right now. In twilight.  Reactions? Thoughts on who scum actually is?

I'll do the same for Jake tomorrow and suggest others voting Jake do the same too. This isn't special just for me.

[faust]

Anything else to add faust ?
[/quote
Well I'm still VLA, and Space and Joseph will be at my place in like an hour, so you'll have to be patient a bit longer. Will check the deadline.

[faust]

Right, deadline is Wednesday. I will do fausty things tomorrow.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

If Jake is lynched and town, faust will likely be the first place I will be looking.

I kinda want to look there now. faust has seemed off and different, but this is off and different from any version of faust I have seen, scum or town. So I don't think it is likely very alignment related. But he has been the most persistent, while at the same time quiet, about pushing Jake's lynch.

Jake what do you think of faust in particular? Same rules apply as with previous questions if you don't mind?

He has seemed off this game to me as well. Not just in content but also post count numbers. (Will be periodically checking throughout the day when I have time but not much so will not be current)(Also phone posting or else I would back this up with quotes)

[LaLight]

guys, sorry, but for the next 15 hours I am transfering from Minsk to Moscow. Next vote count will be in 15-17 hrs.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Sorry faust. I knew the others were VLA but forgot that it included you. That explains a lot.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.

[faust]

Faust. If you do get on soon could restate where you want your vote? There is some confusion.

On Jake. Is it not there for some reason? Am I hammering or something if I revote?