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[Galzria]

Just did a full reread on TWM. Definitely moved WAY up my town list. That said, TWM, I'm not seeing the posts where you asked anything of Jake directly so... hard for him to respond. You quoted Teproc asking him a question d1... But also quoted his answer lol.

Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).

As you mentioned to the thread for me... I was in Canada with no wifi connection, thus my lack of interaction.

That doesn't make you more or less likely to be town or scum. And I'm not criticising your lack of play d1 - but I do find your lack of participating d2 to be scummy, and more the few interactions that you've had I've found scummy.

[Teproc]

I guess I should have taken the precaution to note that

VT CLAIMING IS BAD, PEOPLE

DatSwan is excused for being new, and Galz is doing whatever Galz is doing for whatever reasons I disagree with, but please, do not claim VT willy nilly, all you're doing is making PRs easier to kill.

[chairs]

I guess I should have taken the precaution to note that

VT CLAIMING IS BAD, PEOPLE

DatSwan is excused for being new, and Galz is doing whatever Galz is doing for whatever reasons I disagree with, but please, do not claim VT willy nilly, all you're doing is making PRs easier to kill.

IKR.

[Swowl]

Just did a full reread on TWM. Definitely moved WAY up my town list. That said, TWM, I'm not seeing the posts where you asked anything of Jake directly so... hard for him to respond. You quoted Teproc asking him a question d1... But also quoted his answer lol.

Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).

As you mentioned to the thread for me... I was in Canada with no wifi connection, thus my lack of interaction.

That doesn't make you more or less likely to be town or scum. And I'm not criticising your lack of play d1 - but I do find your lack of participating d2 to be scummy, and more the few interactions that you've had I've found scummy.

If my interaction on D1 does not make me more or less likely to be skum then why feel the need to point out I was not voting at the end of D1? Again, and again, it just feels like you trying to take the heat off yourself and have people look elsewhere instead.

Also, not randomly claiming VT. I am new, but you kind of forced my hand into an explanation...IC.

[Galzria]

Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).

I feel like elaborating on this a little more:

JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): faust, Robz888, The_Wine_Merchant, Skumpy, gkrieg13

IF: Jake is Scum

THEN: I doubt scum were bussing. There really wasn't much need. Town was sluggish and crawling there and without them on Jake's wagon Robz would've been just as likely (or anybody really) to be the lynch candidate (or no lynch). We were 8 hours to deadline so "playing off wagon" (especially off a scum partner wagon) is the far safer play.

That casts shade on Roadrunner, Chairs, Raptor, DatSwan and Andrew (and me). Roadrunner, Andrew and DatSwan were off both Jake and Robz - with Andrew being by far the most active player amongst them not to be on a major wagon approaching (or ultimately at) deadline.

If Jake is Scum, I expect one of {Chairs, XxRaptor} and one of {DatSwan, Roadrunner, Andrew} to be his partner. -- That said, if scum WAS bussing him to this point it was Skumpy, who along with Gkrieg switched to make the Robz lynch happen.

-----

IF: Jake is Town

THEN: Scum had two town wagons going, and an approaching deadline in a crawling game. They had absolutely no reason to push anything, and knew both Robz/Jake would flip town. This is where I think we stand. With a slow paced game up to this point, and town  players generally split over two town wagons, scum didn't have reason to help us push a lynch.

Because of this, I don't find Skumpy scummy - he switched to make a lynch happen when - if he was scum and Jake town - he had no reason to. Notably the other player this would apply to is Gkrieg, who was in fact town.

With this belief, scum could be anywhere. On either wagon, or off either wagon. But I don't see that it's likely that all 3 were on both wagons and yet we still struggled to get a lynch through. Hence my strong belief that there is at least one scum amongst {DatSwan, Andrew}.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

TWM, STOP SAYING THIS!!!!! Your not allowed to say that if when I ask for said questions so I can respond to them, YOU won't tell me them.

OMG wall of text. Dude. Snip.

For your ease of convenience, here here, here]=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711739#msg711739]here not counting all of the many, many numerous times that I suggested, alluded or asked that you give context, explanation or better understanding.

But sure. I am not doing my part. TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS FUN!

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Man. I thought I had it all formatted correctly. I think the links are correct though. Nope third link is bad. Here

[chairs]

I mean, cruise control for cool etc.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Fine.

vote: XXraptor

[Skumpy]

I binged a season of The Mole the last couple days; against my hopes, it has not improved my scum hunting whatsoever.

Sorry I've been unnaturally quiet for Skumpy the last day or so. Like DatSwan, I feel it's been a lot more overwhelming day 2. Sadly, whenever I'm starting to suspect somebody of being scum, they say something and I'm gullible so I'm instantly convinced.

I still can't vote for TWM. If he's scum, he's playing such a damn good long con and there's no way he's worth a vote at this point in time. Maybe I should reread him - then again, maybe should I reread everybody.

Like some others here, I'm going to try and focus on the voting so far to find a pattern. The one big problem with Galzria's thinking is that so many people were VLA. DatSwan and faust were confirmed VLA, they had mentioned it several days in advance. Andrew and Chairs had unexpected complications, RR and Jake were occasional posters. It makes it tough.

I've been trying to get a good picture of the whole thing, but I really don't have the time right to now to say everything I want to. I'll work on it in a few hours where the Newbie will get a chance to prove they're a master of mafia. I'll be around reading and maybe making some short posts, but no voting from me for a little bit.

[chairs]

Fine.

vote: XXraptor

Sure why not.

vote: XXraptor

[Galzria]

Just did a full reread on TWM. Definitely moved WAY up my town list. That said, TWM, I'm not seeing the posts where you asked anything of Jake directly so... hard for him to respond. You quoted Teproc asking him a question d1... But also quoted his answer lol.

Also, I still like my DatSwan vote - but I had forgotten the exact reasons I seriously found Andrew scummy d1. I would strongly like to lynch one of these 2 (also, notably, the only 2 not voting at the end of d1, which I believe played part in why it was so hard to get a lynch through. I believe town was doing everything we could - we were just split over two wagons. Which is also why I'm not psyched about lynching Jake today).

As you mentioned to the thread for me... I was in Canada with no wifi connection, thus my lack of interaction.

That doesn't make you more or less likely to be town or scum. And I'm not criticising your lack of play d1 - but I do find your lack of participating d2 to be scummy, and more the few interactions that you've had I've found scummy.

If my interaction on D1 does not make me more or less likely to be skum then why feel the need to point out I was not voting at the end of D1? Again, and again, it just feels like you trying to take the heat off yourself and have people look elsewhere instead.

Also, not randomly claiming VT. I am new, but you kind of forced my hand into an explanation...IC.

As noted in my below post - because if you're town then either:

A) Andrew is the scum not voting either wagon at day's end (possible)

Or

B) Andrew is town as well and all 3 scum were voting on the two wagons.

Now, it's interesting to note that if Jake is scum he knew Robz was town and was intentionally nor voting him to appear off the wagon of a town flip. That IS more likely than town Jake voting off wagon of an unknown alignment player when the lynch was between them.

So that DOES cast a serious amount of suspicion back on Jake. But then for you and Andrew to both be town, again, all 3 scum would need to have been voting. This would implicate a Jake/Skumpy/X (not Xx, just X) team... With Skumpy already moving to derail the Jake lynch by going to Robz' wagon though, and Jake already intentionally placed off... I just don't see the missing scum as being likely on Robz wagon as well - unless they were there early. That would be {Chairs, Raptor, Galzria} to everybody.

But I still find myself finding 'X' here more likely to be off the Robz wagon, which brings me back to you and Andrew.

[Galzria]

Sorry,  the "below" post mentioned above was the one posted after DatSwan's linked post.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: Robz

Please compare this vote to the one that Skumpy casts below it. One is thought out, provides reasons and is committal. The other is empty and really, in my eyes a vote away from jake. At this point jake is at 5 votes. If xx had voted there it would have been 6. I had just asked people to explain why they weren't voting for either Robz or jake and this was xx's response apparently. No reason given for why not voting for jake. Or a reason for voting for Robz. Just a vote that dtracted from the larger wagon here.

Now I do think that if xx were scum (and jake not their partner) they would have voted jake there I think. But I have made that mistake before of thinking mafia would push lynches instead of intentionally avoiding them.

[Galzria]

Vote: Robz

Please compare this vote to the one that Skumpy casts below it. One is thought out, provides reasons and is committal. The other is empty and really, in my eyes a vote away from jake. At this point jake is at 5 votes. If xx had voted there it would have been 6. I had just asked people to explain why they weren't voting for either Robz or jake and this was xx's response apparently. No reason given for why not voting for jake. Or a reason for voting for Robz. Just a vote that dtracted from the larger wagon here.

Now I do think that if xx were scum (and jake not their partner) they would have voted jake there I think. But I have made that mistake before of thinking mafia would push lynches instead of intentionally avoiding them.

You are absolutely correct that Raptor's vote was far worse here. Anytime a vote is cast without reasoning behind it it's bad (ok, {exceptions, reasons}).

But let's assume Raptor IS scum for a moment as it's his bad vote in question:

- 8 hours (give or take) to deadline.
- Jake is at 5 votes
- Robz is at 2
- Nobody else is on radar.
- Scum!Raptor knows the alignment of both Jake & Robz

Questions:
- Does Jake's alignment matter here? If yes, how? Certainly if he's scum this vote makes sense from scum!Raptor. What if Jake is Town?
- Does scum, even newbie scum, place that vote with literally 0 justification? Do they not at least try to seem townie by doing it?
- If XxRaptor is scum, and Jake is scum, do you believe the third scum was also voting Robz, left bussing Jake, or not voting?
- If XxRaptor is scum and Jake is Town, do you believe all three scum were on Robz/Jake wagons? Why was the lynch so difficult to get through? If they're not all on the wagons, then one of {Andrew, DatSwan} would be scum, correct?

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

TWM, STOP SAYING THIS!!!!! Your not allowed to say that if when I ask for said questions so I can respond to them, YOU won't tell me them.

OMG wall of text. Dude. Snip.

For your ease of convenience, here here, here]=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711739#msg711739]here not counting all of the many, many numerous times that I suggested, alluded or asked that you give context, explanation or better understanding.

But sure. I am not doing my part. TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS FUN!

I said that I wan't going to defend myself, I didn't dodge you asking me to show why I'm town.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Er

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Er

?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

I don't think you get it. I am not accepting "I am not answering that" as an answer.

You saying that you aren't answering doesn't cut it for me. So I get to keep saying you aren't answering and subsequently voting until you do. And honestly I probably still will even if you did. Hence why I say I don't care anymore.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

In the mean time. How is that scum hunting going?

[Galzria]

TWM, STOP SAYING THIS!!!!! Your not allowed to say that if when I ask for said questions so I can respond to them, YOU won't tell me them.

OMG wall of text. Dude. Snip.

For your ease of convenience, here here, here]=http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17401.msg711739#msg711739]here not counting all of the many, many numerous times that I suggested, alluded or asked that you give context, explanation or better understanding.

But sure. I am not doing my part. TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS FUN!

I said that I wan't going to defend myself, I didn't dodge you asking me to show why I'm town.

Er

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

In the mean time. How is that scum hunting going?

Good

[Galzria]

In the mean time. How is that scum hunting going?

Good

Jake,  please stop being asinine for the sake of it. I get frustration with a player. But this game isn't just you and TWM. If there's questions directed to you, or opinions asked for, please give them. It helps everybody instead of just hurting TWM.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

How about this. Jake, what do you think of XXraptor. Please be as specific as possible and reference a post or two for why you feel a certain way, whether that is town, scum or null. Thx

[AndrewisFTTW]

A lot of people expressed surprise from Galz's VT claim but not so many reads. Does anybody else think Galz would never claim VT as town?

Never? I can't think of a reason why anyone would never do something. Granted he, hasn't fully explained why he claimed VT (at least as far as I can remember), but I for one haven't felt the need to ask him at this juncture. Maybe in the future.

Ok but do you really think it was something town!Galz is more likely to do?