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[chairs]

Jesus.

I'm going to have to reread gkrieg, I guess.

Not happy with Galz claiming - there was no pressure and you could've soaked up a death for any potential PR.

[chairs]

Hmm. gkrieg edged scum on Galz early D1 but then went Town. I realize he didn't have any Cop results at this point but I do think he's a fairly decent player so I'm trying to take into account some of his thoughts while keeping in mind it's D1 material and he only had so much to go on.

I like his point about raptor and jake seeming scummy together. vote: jake

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Ha.

[Teproc]

People voting Jake: I'd be interested to hear what you think went on late day 1 once the lynch solidified as either Robz or Jake. Actually I'm kind of interested in everyone's thoughts about this.

[AndrewisFTTW]

BTW, people should reread gkrieg.

I think this is the most important section:

So, town are TWM, chairs, skumpy, tentatively Faust, galz, Andrew

Scum are RR, Jake, and probably XX?  Could also be Robz, or datswan.

The town read on Galzria confuses me because gkrieg points out some scummy things before that, but there you go. I think gkrieg gets killed for accurate town reads, and well it helps that I also think Skumpy, chairs, TWM are town.

Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

People voting Jake: I'd be interested to hear what you think went on late day 1 once the lynch solidified as either Robz or Jake. Actually I'm kind of interested in everyone's thoughts about this.

I'll answer that when my questions have been answered. My answer depends on what those answers are.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Hmm. Not sure where to start. Rereading Grieg. I guess I can hope on the jake wagon for now.

Vote: Jake

[AndrewisFTTW]

I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched

These two points directly contradict each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.

Again, I disagree. My goal as scum is to win, not avoid lynch on D2. I believe that as scum I have much stronger plays down the road by keeping silent now - at the very least my doors are open. Town doesn't have that option unless town lies, which does have it's merits albeit few. Locking myself in now hurts my scum game far more than it helps - especially as I wasn't likely to be lynched coming in to today anyway. As scum, this is all incredibly wrong.

Totally want to pull up your quote earlier this game where you said "I wouldn't do this as scum" is a super scummy thing to say.

[Skumpy]

I'm starting to feel like the Raptor/Jake theory is too easy, It's worrying me a little bit. PPE: And now he voted him. Great.

Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.

I think you underestimate me. Or maybe I overestimate myself.

People voting Jake: I'd be interested to hear what you think went on late day 1 once the lynch solidified as either Robz or Jake. Actually I'm kind of interested in everyone's thoughts about this.

Firstly, I think you mentioned you had an opinion on who you'd rather lynch, which I don't recall you ever saying - I'd like to hear that at some point.

Obviously, I was the cause of Robz' lynch, there's not much of a mystery there. It was 5-3, I had a sudden thought, and I flipped. Jake and Robz had been my top 2 for a while, and I decided to switch them 7 hours before the deadline, which put a lot of pressure on everybody. If Robz hadn't already had 3 votes and I didn't think there was a point to voting him, I probably would've stayed on Jake.

That was my first blunder, the second was oversleeping and getting there 12 minutes before the lynch, which was also like 5 after gkrieg flipped. If I'd been there earlier, we could've negotiated, but I do think I ultimately would've stood by my thoughts and forced the veteran to join me in voting Robz, because that clearly makes sense. Now it was 5-3, and only 2 people were there at the final deadline, so there was no option. Had there been more, who knows?


One thing I absolutely want to make clear: even if I was skum, there is absolutely no way I would claim 'sorry, I'm late', and purposely skip the deadline to help the faction. I think it's a lousy and lame move to lurk and not fight for a 'no, this is bad. Not lynching him'. So you can blame me for being late and causing a mislynch, but don't accuse me of being skum for it.

So yes, Teproc, it was me! I caused the death of an innocent recently-birthdayed man!

[AndrewisFTTW]

I wanted to point out that RR is townie for his last-minute vote. I think scum!RR is more likely to let the deadline pass and force a no-lynch than to be the decisive vote on a town wagon.

I don't think so. If scum!RR has a chance to hammer town then he'll go for it. Also:

I'd rather lynch Jake than Robz, although no one really seems like a good lynch candidate for today. It's been sort of a slow D1 for me.

He says he prefers a Jake lynch but doesn't put his vote there, then disappears until the hammer. So I guess you could point to him maybe protecting a partner? But on the other hand he could've just as easily have put an earlier vote down on Robz if that was the case. Yeah I think I agree with faust on him being pretty towny.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.

I think you underestimate me. Or maybe I overestimate myself.

Oh so you ARE scum?

[Galzria]

I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched

These two points directly contradict each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.

Again, I disagree. My goal as scum is to win, not avoid lynch on D2. I believe that as scum I have much stronger plays down the road by keeping silent now - at the very least my doors are open. Town doesn't have that option unless town lies, which does have it's merits albeit few. Locking myself in now hurts my scum game far more than it helps - especially as I wasn't likely to be lynched coming in to today anyway. As scum, this is all incredibly wrong.

Totally want to pull up your quote earlier this game where you said "I wouldn't do this as scum" is a super scummy thing to say.

That's fair. But I'm not defending myself by saying "I wouldn't do this as scum.", I'm saying "This wouldn't be optimal play if I were scum.", which is notably different.

[Skumpy]

Almost caught up. Just wanted to say I agree on those town reads, at least Skumpy and TWM. Skumpy I don't think can make up everything he's been saying as scum. TWM is overly-dramatic as usual, that means he's town. chairs I'm not really sure about.

I think you underestimate me. Or maybe I overestimate myself.

Oh so you ARE scum?

sigh. *If I ever am skum*. I'd like to think I can be crafty enough to make fake reads.


I'm not so sure how I feel anymore about a Jake lynch. He's not my number 1 suspect anymore, but his death maybe could help some regardless of how he reveals. Which is also a good reason to vote me, but let's not worry about that right now. I'm not going to help with a quicklynch, but I'm a willing voter if the deadline approaches.

XX, why did you vote Jake over me?

[AndrewisFTTW]

I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched

These two points directly contradict each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.

Again, I disagree. My goal as scum is to win, not avoid lynch on D2. I believe that as scum I have much stronger plays down the road by keeping silent now - at the very least my doors are open. Town doesn't have that option unless town lies, which does have it's merits albeit few. Locking myself in now hurts my scum game far more than it helps - especially as I wasn't likely to be lynched coming in to today anyway. As scum, this is all incredibly wrong.

Totally want to pull up your quote earlier this game where you said "I wouldn't do this as scum" is a super scummy thing to say.

That's fair. But I'm not defending myself by saying "I wouldn't do this as scum.", I'm saying "This wouldn't be optimal play if I were scum.", which is notably different.

So you WOULD do it as scum?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Or I guess you're saying you COULD do it as scum? Or maybe you're defending yourself by saying it's not the optimal play and thus you wouldn't do it as scum because you only play optimally?

[Teproc]

People voting Jake: I'd be interested to hear what you think went on late day 1 once the lynch solidified as either Robz or Jake. Actually I'm kind of interested in everyone's thoughts about this.

I'll answer that when my questions have been answered. My answer depends on what those answers are.

What questions would that be ? I only see a Jake vote today, and some general complaining at the end of day 1 ? What is you want answered exactly ?

Guys, it's pointless to talk to Galzria about what he would or would not do as scum. Duh. It's not pointless to talk about it in general, but specifically to Galz ? No point at all.

Also, since almost everyone has posted and no one has pointed it out, I'll explain my line of thought earlier when questioning Galzria. You see, he forgot a very important factor in the NK dynamics for night 1 in this setup, which is that in addition to being an IC, I'm a 1-shot Commuter. Notably, faust also forgot about this, and seemingly everyone else. Well, at least three people (or less if scum is in the people not posting), either pretended to forget (because you can be sure this was a subject of conversation in the scum QT last night) or simply missed that this was what I was trying to get out of Galz.

What this means to people's alignment, I'll leave to you (general you), for now.

[Teproc]

I guess DatSwan is the only "people not posting" left, by my count.

[Teproc]

One thing I'll say about the dynamics of yesterday's lynch. Either

a) Jake is scum.

or

b) Jake is town.

Simple enough. If a), then scum had to be working to make sure Robz was the lynch to happen, to save Jake. The nice thing is that one of the people this would lead me to is... gkrieg. Skumpy is the other one, as he explained himself just above. gkrieg dying is an interesting wrinkle there.

If it's b), scum didn't care. Especially once I somewhat prematurely (sorry about that) estimated that we'd only lynch in those two unless someone mounted a strong case against someone else.

[chairs]

Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

[Swowl]

Galz - whether or not you claim as skum or don't claim as skum... you are claiming to be town. Why claim town? What's your gain? We all know what your gain would be if you are skum, but what is the gain if you are town?

[Galzria]

Guys, it's pointless to talk to Galzria about what he would or would not do as scum. Duh. It's not pointless to talk about it in general, but specifically to Galz ? No point at all.

This.

[Teproc]

Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

To be fair, my fear there was no lynch, and we came perilously close to it. I hoped doing that would give the game some urgency, but taht didn't quite work. That it didn't is relevant though.

[Teproc]

Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

Are there specific elements that make you think the Robz lynch was pushed by scum ?

[chairs]

Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

Are there specific elements that make you think the Robz lynch was pushed by scum ?

The way things slowed like molasses at the end felt weird to me.

[Teproc]

Yeah, unfortunate the premature "gladiatorial combat" moment there, since it makes it harder to decide if the Robz lynch was important to scum or not. I lean towards yes, which is part of why I'm voting for Jake now.

Are there specific elements that make you think the Robz lynch was pushed by scum ?

The way things slowed like molasses at the end felt weird to me.

Right but... how does that indicate one over the other ?