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[Galzria]

Still poorly phrased really, but you get the idea hopefully ? Why did they not do what you expected them to do (kill me) ?

Yes - I get your meaning.

There are a lot of different reasons - but the one that jumps out the most is if they know Mod #3 is active and assume you were Watched.

[Teproc]

I'm sorry to be insistent about this, but what would those other reasons be ?

[Teproc]

And by that I mean, setup-related reasons, not "scum thought gkrieg was a PR" reasons. There's the possibility of a doctor (similar to Watcher), but that's it right ?

[Skumpy]

Hi! Stopping by one last time before bed.

I was gonna answer Teproc's question for Galzria, but he beat me to it. He's also forgetting Doctor - there's a 75% chance one of the roles is in play, and you were their most likely patient/watchee. There's a lot to be gained from killing you, but the risk makes it not worth it. Makes sense to kill someone who nobody suspects and hasn't done anything remotely scummy yet.

I'm wondering if scum's going to try to do something like purposely no-night-kill to prove a fake doctor claim. With the cop dead night 1, it's definitely a very safe move now to fake a Universal Backup claim.

Teproc, thoughts on me?

[faust]

Why? Because it's something I don't think scum would do.

Because I don't think I'll be lynched, which increases the likelihood we lynch scum - and if I am, I'm not a huge loss to town.

But I think I'm more believable claiming now then if / once a wagon starts on me. Claiming VT down the line won't save me - so might as well get it out now.

Of course you are aware that these are perfectly valid reasons for scum to claim as well? The only thing that changed really is that if you are town, scum can now PoE PRs better. You are definitely not less likely to be lynched, or more believable or anything. All this shows is you worrying more about the way you are perceived and not being lynched than you do about not giving scum more information.

[faust]

I was gonna answer Teproc's question for Galzria

It's generally bad practice to do that. If Teproc wanted your anwser, he would have asked for it.

[Teproc]

@Skumpy: I would generally refrain from answering people's question for them. Which you didn't do I know, just noting it for the future.

As for thoughts on you, I have some, but I'll also advise you to worry less about that and more about who's scum. Not that you shouldn't worry about people thinking you're scum, but it seems to be your only worry right now.

[faust]

Notably, Watcher implies scum Rolestopper, meaning scum could have rolestopped Teproc and conveniently killed him.

The way I see it, either we have mod 1 and not mod 3 (which is the only case in which it is not safe for scum to kill Teproc) and that's why Teproc lives, or scum had a strong hunch gkrieg would be a PR and/or dangerous to them and prioritized getting him out of the way.

There is a chance that scum were worried that the Rolestopper could be roleblocked, but it's a stretch.

[Galzria]

I'm sorry to be insistent about this, but what would those other reasons be ?

Other reasons could be Doctor, yes. I was thinking non - setup related though. Not "They thought Gkriek was a PR's mind you - but more along the lines of maybe your reads are bad, or maybe they've felt like they can manipulate you, or maybe Gkrieg's reads were especially good, or even just for the sake of setting up any of the above lines of thought.

There's both setup reasons for not killing you and meta reasons for not killing you. I still thought it was more likely than not to have happened - but obviously I was wrong.

[Galzria]

Why? Because it's something I don't think scum would do.

Because I don't think I'll be lynched, which increases the likelihood we lynch scum - and if I am, I'm not a huge loss to town.

But I think I'm more believable claiming now then if / once a wagon starts on me. Claiming VT down the line won't save me - so might as well get it out now.

Of course you are aware that these are perfectly valid reasons for scum to claim as well? The only thing that changed really is that if you are town, scum can now PoE PRs better. You are definitely not less likely to be lynched, or more believable or anything. All this shows is you worrying more about the way you are perceived and not being lynched than you do about not giving scum more information.

I disagree

[faust]

Why? Because it's something I don't think scum would do.

Because I don't think I'll be lynched, which increases the likelihood we lynch scum - and if I am, I'm not a huge loss to town.

But I think I'm more believable claiming now then if / once a wagon starts on me. Claiming VT down the line won't save me - so might as well get it out now.

Of course you are aware that these are perfectly valid reasons for scum to claim as well? The only thing that changed really is that if you are town, scum can now PoE PRs better. You are definitely not less likely to be lynched, or more believable or anything. All this shows is you worrying more about the way you are perceived and not being lynched than you do about not giving scum more information.

I disagree

What a shocker.

[faust]

I wanted to point out that RR is townie for his last-minute vote. I think scum!RR is more likely to let the deadline pass and force a no-lynch than to be the decisive vote on a town wagon.

[Teproc]

Why? Because it's something I don't think scum would do.

Because I don't think I'll be lynched, which increases the likelihood we lynch scum - and if I am, I'm not a huge loss to town.

But I think I'm more believable claiming now then if / once a wagon starts on me. Claiming VT down the line won't save me - so might as well get it out now.

Of course you are aware that these are perfectly valid reasons for scum to claim as well? The only thing that changed really is that if you are town, scum can now PoE PRs better. You are definitely not less likely to be lynched, or more believable or anything. All this shows is you worrying more about the way you are perceived and not being lynched than you do about not giving scum more information.

I disagree

Disagree how ? You've only listed survivalist reasons, which are alignment-neutral, are they not ?

@faust: Where do you think I was going with my line of questioning on Galz ?

@Everyone: Discussing these things is fine and productive, but a reminder to be careful not to show your knowledge (or lack thereof) of which modifications are present.

[faust]

@faust: Where do you think I was going with my line of questioning on Galz ?

Well, obviously his statement would be a lie if he's scum and actively made the decision to kill you, so you wanted to see if he could back it up with sound reasoning. Also there's an option in there to have him slip up on PR info that he cannot have.

I can only assume that you yourself weren't too surprised at still being alive. I know I didn't think it was a weird kill, but then I have been disengaged with the game for a couple of days.

[Galzria]

Why? Because it's something I don't think scum would do.

Because I don't think I'll be lynched, which increases the likelihood we lynch scum - and if I am, I'm not a huge loss to town.

But I think I'm more believable claiming now then if / once a wagon starts on me. Claiming VT down the line won't save me - so might as well get it out now.

Of course you are aware that these are perfectly valid reasons for scum to claim as well? The only thing that changed really is that if you are town, scum can now PoE PRs better. You are definitely not less likely to be lynched, or more believable or anything. All this shows is you worrying more about the way you are perceived and not being lynched than you do about not giving scum more information.

I disagree

Disagree how ? You've only listed survivalist reasons, which are alignment-neutral, are they not ?

@faust: Where do you think I was going with my line of questioning on Galz ?

@Everyone: Discussing these things is fine and productive, but a reminder to be careful not to show your knowledge (or lack thereof) of which modifications are present.

I disagree with faust's assessment because I think he's wrong. I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched, I do believe we're more likely to lynch scum because of my claim, and I don't believe my claim will help scum find PR's.

[faust]

I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched

These two points directly contract each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.

[faust]

I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched

These two points directly contradict each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.

EBWOP

[faust]

I don't believe my claim will help scum find PR's.

So you probably also believe Teproc's IC status doesn't help us finding scum...

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Fuck.

I'm gonna claim. Don't know if it's good or not - but fuck.

I'm a Good Memory, VT.

Why ?

Because I believe it is pro town.

I don't

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

regardless of who died at night (assumed it would be you, but didn't know).

Can you expand on that a bit ?

I assumed scum would shoot the IC

Why

[Galzria]

I don't believe there is a valid reason for scum to claim like I did, I do believe I'm less likely to bee lynched

These two points directly contradict each other. If it makes you less likely to be lynched, then that's a perfectly valid reason for scum to claim like you did.

Again, I disagree. My goal as scum is to win, not avoid lynch on D2. I believe that as scum I have much stronger plays down the road by keeping silent now - at the very least my doors are open. Town doesn't have that option unless town lies, which does have it's merits albeit few. Locking myself in now hurts my scum game far more than it helps - especially as I wasn't likely to be lynched coming in to today anyway. As scum, this is all incredibly wrong.

[Teproc]

I think faust's position on Galz's claim is clear (and Galz's answers to that), we can move on. Don't think we want this to dominate the discussion right now (meaning faust v Galz, I do think other people coming in should share their thoughts on Galz's claim obviously). There's a lot of D1 stuff to talk about.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Vote: jake

[faust]

Vote: jake

It's a reasonable thing to do.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: jake

This seems fun and I might have to join you.

In other news, Galz has been saying over and over that 'it's not something scum would do.' This is obviously a terrible argument, because playing well as scum requires you doing things that people don't thinl scum would do. So why is his logic so bad? Either he's town or didn't plan this claim out very well. I don't know that much about Galz's playstyle but I'm pretty sure he's a vet, so I think he planned this out. I still don't want to give him townpoints for doing that though.