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[Galzria]

Calling scummy play scummy isn't projecting. Andrew's arguments in semantics is exactly the type of arguments scum make because they're laced with a hint of truth that makes them seem reasonable.

Gkrieg called "the" mafia team with just 2 people. Mafia has 3. That's not really likely to be a faked mistake mafia will make, but Andrew's reaction to it - namely the focus on the word "the" - gives a semblance of validity to his argument, despite it being bogus.

I would say the "comparison" to the fact that I did exactly that in M100 is just one example of such play. As it was in fact from me then, I would argue I'm more acutely aware of why such arguments work.

As Robz would say, "SK hunting is a scum tell" - doesn't matter who you are. Semantic arguments are scummy. Doesn't matter who's making them.

That said, Faust in M100 waa town. He made reads early, yes. They were almost all based off something and weren't posted arbitrarily. Further, his verbiage was very specific: He stated townie or scummy, and gave "on the list / off the list " lists for who should be the lynch.

In M101 he was scum. He was caught D1 for a number of reasons - but amongst them was that he made the same D1 reads from M100 but here he made them arbitrarily. He was trying to mimic his town play but when you're scum it's harder to justify "reads" because all your "reads" are faked.

This feels much more like M101 Faust than M100 Faust. He wants people to see him as his town!meta, instead of being his town meta.

[Skumpy]

In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town?

What makes you say that ?

Well, gkrieg said it about Faust (though I now see Galzria is trying to explain why that's not the case). Chairs said Galzria's a strong player, which I take to mean he's not going to give himself away day 1. This is my first game here, I don't know what anybody does, so I have to rely on everybody else's experiences. I can look at the results of past games, but I don't really feel like taking the time to comb through them. and even if i did its tough to remember everyone since theres so many people and not a lot really sta n d out

Question: Why do you keep asking me questions? I feel like you think I'm Skummy and are trying to get other people to pay attention to me...

[gkrieg13]

In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town?

What makes you say that ?

Well, gkrieg said it about Faust (though I now see Galzria is trying to explain why that's not the case). Chairs said Galzria's a strong player, which I take to mean he's not going to give himself away day 1. This is my first game here, I don't know what anybody does, so I have to rely on everybody else's experiences. I can look at the results of past games, but I don't really feel like taking the time to comb through them. and even if i did its tough to remember everyone since theres so many people and not a lot really sta n d out

Question: Why do you keep asking me questions? I feel like you think I'm Skummy and are trying to get other people to pay attention to me...

Asking questions of newbies is a good way to get them to slip up if they are in fact, scum

[Skumpy]

In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town?

What makes you say that ?

Well, gkrieg said it about Faust (though I now see Galzria is trying to explain why that's not the case). Chairs said Galzria's a strong player, which I take to mean he's not going to give himself away day 1. This is my first game here, I don't know what anybody does, so I have to rely on everybody else's experiences. I can look at the results of past games, but I don't really feel like taking the time to comb through them. and even if i did its tough to remember everyone since theres so many people and not a lot really sta n d out

Question: Why do you keep asking me questions? I feel like you think I'm Skummy and are trying to get other people to pay attention to me...

Asking questions of newbies is a good way to get them to slip up if they are in fact, scum

Funny enough, the guys in the scum QT actually warned me before the game started that Teproc would probably try that.

[Galzria]

In any event, I'm not sure where I stand on the Faust-Galzria beef. Apparently they're playing like they normally do when they're town?

What makes you say that ?

Well, gkrieg said it about Faust (though I now see Galzria is trying to explain why that's not the case). Chairs said Galzria's a strong player, which I take to mean he's not going to give himself away day 1. This is my first game here, I don't know what anybody does, so I have to rely on everybody else's experiences. I can look at the results of past games, but I don't really feel like taking the time to comb through them. and even if i did its tough to remember everyone since theres so many people and not a lot really sta n d out

Question: Why do you keep asking me questions? I feel like you think I'm Skummy and are trying to get other people to pay attention to me...

Asking questions of newbies is a good way to get them to slip up if they are in fact, scum

Funny enough, the guys in the scum QT actually warned me before the game started that Teproc would probably try that.

It's a pretty good strategy. Except if the new players are educated in the ways of Mafia. And then they usually school the veterans.

[AndrewisFTTW]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!

[Skumpy]

It's a pretty good strategy. Except if the new players are educated in the ways of Mafia. And then they usually school the veterans.

For what it's worth, I guess I might as well confess at this point that I did use to play Town of Salem quite a bit. Went cold turkey about 15 months ago, and I plan on never touching it again. But all that did is give me a little information about some PR's (which if you've ever played tos, should shred some light on some of my first-post questions). Other than that, there's 100% absolutely nothing transferable to forum mafia.

Come to think of it, since I'm town, I'm actually enjoying the interrogation since I can't slip up. By all means, please do keep peppering me.

[chairs]

Where's RR at on votes? I don't mind joining a wagon on D1 strictly on activity basis.

[faust]

n M101 he was scum. He was caught D1 for a number of reasons - but amongst them was that he made the same D1 reads from M100 but here he made them arbitrarily. He was trying to mimic his town play but when you're scum it's harder to justify "reads" because all your "reads" are faked.

This feels much more like M101 Faust than M100 Faust. He wants people to see him as his town!meta, instead of being his town meta.

I wasn't "caught" in M101. People suspected me for mostly non-alignment tells. Then my partner decided it would be beneficial to bus me and I was consequently lynched. People voted me for the same reasons in M103, I was town, the result was a flawless scum win.

You can always say I'm faking my town meta instead of being town. That's not actually an argument, it's just masquerarding your gut read as something more.

[Galzria]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!

If every player who ever did scummy things was scum, there would never be any town players. I didn't vote for you, but I did note the scumminess of the original accusation.

[chairs]

My gut read is that you're all scum! DIRTY DIRTY SCUM! BURN THE HERETICS! EXTERMINATUS!

But, uh, furreal, I'm just happy to be playing again

[Galzria]

n M101 he was scum. He was caught D1 for a number of reasons - but amongst them was that he made the same D1 reads from M100 but here he made them arbitrarily. He was trying to mimic his town play but when you're scum it's harder to justify "reads" because all your "reads" are faked.

This feels much more like M101 Faust than M100 Faust. He wants people to see him as his town!meta, instead of being his town meta.

You can always say I'm faking my town meta instead of being town. That's not actually an argument, it's just masquerarding your gut read as something more.

Gut reads based on previous play are 100% valid.

[AndrewisFTTW]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!

If every player who ever did scummy things was scum, there would never be any town players. I didn't vote for you, but I did note the scumminess of the original accusation.

Nothing is cut and dry scummy so don't pretend it is. Otherwise this game would be super easy.

[AndrewisFTTW]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.

Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

[Galzria]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!

If every player who ever did scummy things was scum, there would never be any town players. I didn't vote for you, but I did note the scumminess of the original accusation.

Nothing is cut and dry scummy so don't pretend it is. Otherwise this game would be super easy.

Sure it is. But exactly as I said - it doesn't make you scum.

[Galzria]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.

Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

That's more like it though.

vote: Andrew

[AndrewisFTTW]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.

Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

[Galzria]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.

Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

WIFOM. Get in front of it. Yeah.

Also, "I wouldn't do that as scum" is the most overused and ridiculous argument ever - used pretty equally by town and scum alike.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.

Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

Sure?

[Robz888]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!

I also think this, which causes me to have a town read on Andrew and hate his wagon.

[The_Wine_Merchant]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I don't think Galz is really scummy for his whole semantics thing though. This is actually one of those games where I'm having trouble forming any reads at all D1. That's ok though, there's time!

I also think this, which causes me to have a town read on Andrew and hate his wagon.

Huh?

[The_Wine_Merchant]

Sorry. That huh wasn't clear. What "this" are you referring to in that post and further what bearing does it have on Andrew's alignment?

[AndrewisFTTW]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.

Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

WIFOM. Get in front of it. Yeah.

Also, "I wouldn't do that as scum" is the most overused and ridiculous argument ever - used pretty equally by town and scum alike.

Nice job trying to make it seem like my question is not worth answering. You'll probably have the same response for every question I pose in my defense. Quickest way to a mislynch right here folks!

[Galzria]

That's all well and good Galz, except that for the fact that I'm town. You don't know that of course but it does invalidate your argument, for future reference.

I should clarify. You wouldn't know I'm town if you are town as well. Didn't mean for my post to suggest that Galz is definitely town.

Didn't even think of that. But it is a good point

vote: Andrew

You think I would point that out if I was scum?

WIFOM. Get in front of it. Yeah.

Also, "I wouldn't do that as scum" is the most overused and ridiculous argument ever - used pretty equally by town and scum alike.

Nice job trying to make it seem like my question is not worth answering. You'll probably have the same response for every question I pose in my defense. Quickest way to a mislynch right here folks!

Not true at all. And I answered your question. But that's not a defense. A defense has value and merit. "I wouldn't do that as scum" does not. There 's no content there. Yes, you would do that as scum. Or as town. Next?