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[LaLight]

Welcome to M101: Less Mafia by LaLight.

This game is for 8 players, and is classified as normal. It uses an Open Flipless Nightless Roleless setup. All the details are in the second post.

Co-mod:

Sign ups are open.

1. mcmcsalot
2. Robz888
3. Awaclus
4. Twistedarcher
5. gkrieg13
6. O
7. Roadrunner7671
8. Haddock


Tags: Joseph2302, schadd, 2.71828....., J Reggie

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. Lynch rules vary by the number of players alive. With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. Ties are broken by coin flip. With nine or less players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, purple text is reserved for the Mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
7. Prods will be issued by request after 24 hours of inactivity. Players are subject to replacement or modkill upon the third prod request.
8. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last 10 IRL days.

[LaLight]

Setup:

1. This game is nightless. There will be no night actions whatsoever. This includes factional killing.
2. This game is flipless. Lynched players will not flip their alignment.
3. Failing to lynch for a game day will mean the game is over at a mafia win.
4. Mafia will have a daytalk.
5. The setup contains 6 Town and 2 Scum. Consider them to be Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons.
6. Town's win condition is to eliminate all mafia. Mafia's win condition is to control 50% of the town.


Sample pms:

Hi!

You are a Mafia Goon with your partner, [REDACTED].

You win when you control 50% of population in town or nothing can stop this from happening.

You QT is here: [REDACTED].

/confirm via pm stating you role.

Hi!

You are a VT

You win when every scum-aligned person is dead.

/confirm via pm stating you role.

[Calamitas]

/in

[Robz888]

/in

[Awaclus]

/in

[Twistedarcher]

/in

[Joseph2302]

/tag

I want to in, but no Internet at home at the moment.

[Calamitas]

Are there going to be PRs with day actions?

Or is it just a vanilla 2vs7 without nightkills?

[LaLight]

5. The setup contains 7 Town and 2 Scum. Consider them to be Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons.

[gkrieg13]

/in

[schadd]

/tag

[LaLight]

/in

I heard you don't like vanilla games glad you're in!

[O]

/in

so if me and a scum partnered nightkilled one of ourselves, would we flip scum?

[LaLight]

/in

so if me and a scum partnered nightkilled one of ourselves, would we flip scum?

There is no nightkills and no flips, so no I suppose

[gkrieg13]

/in

I heard you don't like vanilla games glad you're in!

Eh if I don't play this one, it might be a while before I'm in a game again

[schadd]

3. Failing to lynch for 3 TOTAL GAME DAYS will mean the game is over at a draw.

this rule allows town to just decide they want a draw at any time which is kind of gross

[Awaclus]

3. Failing to lynch for 3 TOTAL GAME DAYS will mean the game is over at a draw.

this rule allows town to just decide they want a draw at any time which is kind of gross

That's a good point.

[LaLight]

Changed it

[Roadrunner7671]

/in

[2.71828.....]

/tag

[Calamitas]

I don't think this setup is really balanced.
The simulator I wrote delivered a 55% chance of town winning with random lynching which is pretty bad considering reads are rather going to help town than scum.

[LaLight]

I don't think this setup is really balanced.
The simulator I wrote delivered a 55% chance of town winning with random lynching which is pretty bad considering reads are rather going to help town than scum.

well, it really depends. I have not designed this setup, but I can't talk of it yet as it is an ongoing game with me on the other site.

[Calamitas]

Here are the results of my simulation with various variations in regard to playersize and number of scums.
The number upfront represents the probability of town winning with random lynches.

0.1995, 05 players, 2 scum
0.3322, 06 players, 2 scum
0.4234, 07 players, 2 scum
0.4991, 08 players, 2 scum
0.5600, 09 players, 2 scum
0.5996, 10 players, 2 scum

0.1449, 07 players, 3scum
0.2511, 08 players, 3scum
0.3414, 09 players, 3scum
0.3986, 10 players, 3scum
0.4619, 11 players, 3scum
0.5069, 12 players, 3scum
0.5379, 13 players, 3scum

[LaLight]

Here are the results of my simulation with various variations in regard to playersize and number of scums.
The number upfront represents the probability of town winning with random lynches.

0.1995, 05 players, 2 scum
0.3322, 06 players, 2 scum
0.4234, 07 players, 2 scum
0.4991, 08 players, 2 scum
0.5600, 09 players, 2 scum
0.5996, 10 players, 2 scum

0.1449, 07 players, 3scum
0.2511, 08 players, 3scum
0.3414, 09 players, 3scum
0.3986, 10 players, 3scum
0.4619, 11 players, 3scum
0.5069, 12 players, 3scum
0.5379, 13 players, 3scum

you're saying 8/2 is better?

[Calamitas]

Yep, would go down.

[LaLight]

ok, sure then

[liopoil]

Seems to me that since absolutely nothing happens when there's a no lynch, the setup is effectively 3-week long game days where no lynch is not an option.

[Haddock]

/in

[Twistedarcher]

Isn't the fact that it's 55% with random lynches balanced out by the fact that mafia have daychat, but town have effectively information? So mafia have more tools at their disposal to shift the game in their favor?

[liopoil]

Isn't the fact that it's 55% with random lynches balanced out by the fact that mafia have daychat, but town have effectively information? So mafia have more tools at their disposal to shift the game in their favor?

mafia can't possibly hope to make town do worse than random lynch though.

[gkrieg13]

Isn't the fact that it's 55% with random lynches balanced out by the fact that mafia have daychat, but town have effectively information? So mafia have more tools at their disposal to shift the game in their favor?

mafia can't possibly hope to make town do worse than random lynch though.

I think I disagree with this.  Mafia is always trying to make town do worse than random lynches.

[Twistedarcher]

Isn't the fact that it's 55% with random lynches balanced out by the fact that mafia have daychat, but town have effectively information? So mafia have more tools at their disposal to shift the game in their favor?

mafia can't possibly hope to make town do worse than random lynch though.

I dunno. The only way they can't make town do worse is if town literally random lynches. Otherwise they're the only ones with information the entire game, so you could expect that skilled players will manipulate the town towards favorable lynches for mafia.

If 55% town is the baseline, mafia has more information to move lynches in their direction, so it will end up closer to 50/50.

[Twistedarcher]

That being said, I'm fine with playing with 8 or 9

[Calamitas]

If we actually assume that town is doing worse than random by playing and working with reads town should absolutely fall back to random lynching.

[Calamitas]

Seems to me that since absolutely nothing happens when there's a no lynch, the setup is effectively 3-week long game days where no lynch is not an option.

I agree, I would propose changing it to "if no-lynch occurs the second/third time in the game scum is automatically awarded the win"

[Calamitas]

Thinking about it, I'm going to /out. I wouldn't be much use in this kind of setup where we have little to no info for the whole game.

[liopoil]

If we actually assume that town is doing worse than random by playing and working with reads town should absolutely fall back to random lynching.

Yes, this exactly. If a majority of people agree that mafia have more power to sway the lynch than town or something, then the only sensible move will be to random lynch.

Seems to me that since absolutely nothing happens when there's a no lynch, the setup is effectively 3-week long game days where no lynch is not an option.

I agree, I would propose changing it to "if no-lynch occurs the second/third time in the game scum is automatically awarded the win"

This seems like a good idea to me too.

[Twistedarcher]

Thinking about it, I'm going to /out. I wouldn't be much use in this kind of setup where we have little to no info for the whole game.

Haha, I think we're all feeling the same though! No idea how it will go but I am interested to see how it works out. I think figuring out how to be useful is the fun part.

[J Reggie]

/tag

[O]

I think there should be a "7 days no lynch --- town wins" condition.

If the stall condition favors scum, scum will not night kill when there are 4 Town, 2 Scum or 3 Town, 1 Scum as it favors them to put the game into Mylo over Lylo in that instance.

[liopoil]

I think there should be a "7 days no lynch --- town wins" condition.

If the stall condition favors scum, scum will not night kill when there are 4 Town, 2 Scum or 3 Town, 1 Scum as it favors them to put the game into Mylo over Lylo in that instance.

There are no night kills

[O]

I think there should be a "7 days no lynch --- town wins" condition.

If the stall condition favors scum, scum will not night kill when there are 4 Town, 2 Scum or 3 Town, 1 Scum as it favors them to put the game into Mylo over Lylo in that instance.

There are no night kills

i've been seriously unable to read the past few days.

[Calamitas]

Thinking about it, I'm going to /out. I wouldn't be much use in this kind of setup where we have little to no info for the whole game.

Haha, I think we're all feeling the same though! No idea how it will go but I am interested to see how it works out. I think figuring out how to be useful is the fun part.

But I'm usually pretty useless D1 :/

[LaLight]

Thinking about it, I'm going to /out. I wouldn't be much use in this kind of setup where we have little to no info for the whole game.

This is why I think about this game as "interesting to see what happens". It is really less mafia and I don't guarantee it will go REALLY interesting. I''m just an experimentator

[LaLight]

Some of you have a point. I will make a 10 days deadline for day, and no-lynch results in scum win.

[Calamitas]

Some of you have a point. I will make a 10 days deadline for day, and no-lynch results in scum win.

I would give town a timer so they only lose after the second no-lynch in the game. First seems a bit harsh to me.

[LaLight]

Some of you have a point. I will make a 10 days deadline for day, and no-lynch results in scum win.

I would give town a timer so they only lose after the second no-lynch in the game. First seems a bit harsh to me.

That works given the lack of nightkills. I mean, effectively giving the second day is just prolonging a day for 10 IRL days. Here is where soft deadlines come to power.

The thing is: either this setup is fun or not. If it's fun, we will run it more with the changed set of rules due to the first experience. If it's not, prolonging the dl won't help it.

[iguanaiguana]

Without flipless, seems balanced at 8. With flipless, that's a scum buff the RNG won't pick up so seems better with 9.

[mcmcsalot]

/in

[LaLight]

The last and the most up to date set of rules is in the rules. 8 people, 10 day deadline, failing to lynch results in scum win. PM are going out now, the game starts when everyone confirms.

A clarification: The only QT that exists in this game is scum QT. If you need your own QT, pm me.

Thread Locked except for tags.

[LaLight]

Sample pms are now added to the setup post.

[Calamitas]

/tag

[LaLight]

Day 1 begins!

Not voting ( 8 ): mcmcsalot, Robz888, Awaclus, Twistedarcher, O, Roadrunner7671, Haddock, gkrieg13

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, 3rd of June at 1am FT. Thread unlocked

[gkrieg13]

vote: Awaclus

If we are random lynching, he has the highest chance of being scum.

[Awaclus]

But if we aren't random lynching, I don't have the highest chance of being scum!

[Awaclus]

Vote: gkrieg omgus

[Haddock]

I'm in a game again!
vote: TA not played with you in ages!

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote: Haddock

[ashersky]

/tag

[Robz888]

Massclaim time, I am a Vanilla Townie.

[Robz888]

Wait, TA is in this game? Awesome!

[Roadrunner7671]

Massclaim time, I am a Vanilla Townie.

This is scummy man.

[mcmcsalot]

Woo vote: twisted archer because I can, wait no unvote vote: robz it's rvs

[mcmcsalot]

Done being silly vote: roadrunner

[gkrieg13]

Woo vote: twisted archer because I can, wait no unvote vote: robz it's rvs

This is a strangely cautious RVS vote

[gkrieg13]

Also in this setup, townies need to be on the ball. If scum doesn't bus, we need all but one townie on wagon to lynch scum from the start. So no slacking!

[Robz888]

I can't wait to lynch someone and then realize we've learned nothing!

[gkrieg13]

I can't wait to lynch someone and then realize we've learned nothing!

Ya. That.

[mcmcsalot]

I can't wait to lynch someone and then realize we've learned nothing!

Actually what we learn is this:

Also in this setup, townies need to be on the ball. If scum doesn't bus, we need all but one townie on wagon to lynch scum from the start. So no slacking!

After a couple wagons we can analyze whose working together.

[gkrieg13]

True. Very strange game.

[Robz888]

Well let's start working together. Vote: RoadRunner

[LaLight]

Vote Count 1.1

Awaclus (1): gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): Awaclus
Twistedarcher (1): Haddock
Haddock (1): Roadrunner7671
Roadrunner7671 (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Not voting (2): Twistedarcher, O

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, 3rd of June at 1am FT.

[Awaclus]

I can't wait to lynch someone and then realize we've learned nothing!

Actually what we learn is this:

Also in this setup, townies need to be on the ball. If scum doesn't bus, we need all but one townie on wagon to lynch scum from the start. So no slacking!

After a couple wagons we can analyze whose working together.

Are the ones working together town or scum? Because the post you quote assumes scum working together and concludes that town needs to work together as well.

[Awaclus]

Holy shit we're going to have no idea whether we're winning or losing until the game is suddenly over!

[gkrieg13]

Town read on Awaclus for now.

[Awaclus]

After 2 lynches, we can conclude that at least one must be a mislynch though, so we'll have things to analyze unless we nail this.

[Awaclus]

At 6 players left and after that, every lynch either has scum on it or as the target.

[mcmcsalot]

Yea I'm also town on awaclus, likeing this roadrunner lynch more and more as time goes on.

[gkrieg13]

vote: RR

[Haddock]

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

[gkrieg13]

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Why easy thing bad?

[Robz888]

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Partner much?

[mcmcsalot]

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Also what info do we normally get from a roadrunner lynch that we don't get here?

[Awaclus]

I like what RR is doing so far.

[mcmcsalot]

I like what RR is doing so far.

What is he doing so far?

[iguanaiguana]

/tag speccy please

[Awaclus]

I like what RR is doing so far.

What is he doing so far?

Voting without an explanation and telling people that scummy jokes are scummy.

[O]

flipless or not I still have no real reads on anyone, except for

vote: Robz who is clearly scum. I also get the most personal negative utility seeing Robz win as scum and me lose as town compared to anyone else as scum, so there.

[Robz888]

flipless or not I still have no real reads on anyone, except for

vote: Robz who is clearly scum. I also get the most personal negative utility seeing Robz win as scum

I believe you! This is a townie thing to say.

[gkrieg13]

flipless or not I still have no real reads on anyone, except for

vote: Robz who is clearly scum. I also get the most personal negative utility seeing Robz win as scum

I believe you! This is a townie thing to say.

Why a townie thing to say?

[O]

because it's something i would say as town, clearly.

or he's being facetious. But I prefer to think the first one.

[Robz888]

flipless or not I still have no real reads on anyone, except for

vote: Robz who is clearly scum. I also get the most personal negative utility seeing Robz win as scum

I believe you! This is a townie thing to say.

Why a townie thing to say?

Well, I think it's a true sentiment, my friends tell me this all the time. I think O might be slightly less likely to say this to my face here if he was scum. Or not. Just looking for reasons to townread people!

[gkrieg13]

flipless or not I still have no real reads on anyone, except for

vote: Robz who is clearly scum. I also get the most personal negative utility seeing Robz win as scum

I believe you! This is a townie thing to say.

Why a townie thing to say?

Well, I think it's a true sentiment, my friends tell me this all the time. I think O might be slightly less likely to say this to my face here if he was scum. Or not. Just looking for reasons to townread people!

This seems strangely defensive, but I think I might know why, so I don't think this is indicative of your alignment at all.

[Roadrunner7671]

Gkrieg is scummy too

[gkrieg13]

Gkrieg is scummy too

Haha it's like my one comment on Awaclus made us skip RVS or something.

[Roadrunner7671]

Gkrieg is scummy too

Haha it's like my one comment on Awaclus made us skip RVS or something.

No it was you putting me to L-2 this early. You're looking for a derp hammer!

[gkrieg13]

Gkrieg is scummy too

Haha it's like my one comment on Awaclus made us skip RVS or something.

No it was you putting me to L-2 this early. You're looking for a derp hammer!

You know me and those 8-person game, D1 derphammerw

[Twistedarcher]

Hey guys. Just got home and going to bed, will check in tomorrow

[gkrieg13]

Hey guys. Just got home and going to bed, will check in tomorrow

Lynch him before he gets the chance!

[mcmcsalot]

Haddock are you going to answer these questions?

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Why easy thing bad?

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Also what info do we normally get from a roadrunner lynch that we don't get here?

[Twistedarcher]

Okay, I had a plan!

Each person names one person to lynch. We pick a random player, and then whomever that player names get lynched. Scum either have to name a town player, which can give us help in identifying pairs, or name their partner, increasing the odds of a scum lynch d1.

[Twistedarcher]

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Partner much?

Is this tongue in cheek, or do you actually think there's a possibility of a haddock-rr partnership? Haddocks post makes it seem too..obvious.

[Twistedarcher]

I think the best way to play this game is not to traditionally scumhunt, but to eliminate possible scum pairs. Then we can see what does and doesn't make sense future days.

[mcmcsalot]

I think there is actually a possibility. I also think you could be a partner to either one. I very strongly dislike your plan.

We don't get to know flips so your name a person to lynch means scum doesn't have to name their partner at all, I get that you think then we know everyone can't be partners with the person they named but then scum could decide I'll name my partner and then it's a 1 in 8 chance we hit scum unless town also guesses right which is worse than my current 2 in 7 chance. Also your plan removes wagon analysis which we already pointed out is one thing we can do after a couple days.

[gkrieg13]

I think there is actually a possibility. I also think you could be a partner to either one. I very strongly dislike your plan.

We don't get to know flips so your name a person to lynch means scum doesn't have to name their partner at all, I get that you think then we know everyone can't be partners with the person they named but then scum could decide I'll name my partner and then it's a 1 in 8 chance we hit scum unless town also guesses right which is worse than my current 2 in 7 chance. Also your plan removes wagon analysis which we already pointed out is one thing we can do after a couple days.

Also we will have no idea if we actually hit scum even if town guesses scum randomly. The lack of flips means that you have to guess when people die if they were town or scum.

[Twistedarcher]

I think there is actually a possibility. I also think you could be a partner to either one. I very strongly dislike your plan.

We don't get to know flips so your name a person to lynch means scum doesn't have to name their partner at all, I get that you think then we know everyone can't be partners with the person they named but then scum could decide I'll name my partner and then it's a 1 in 8 chance we hit scum unless town also guesses right which is worse than my current 2 in 7 chance. Also your plan removes wagon analysis which we already pointed out is one thing we can do after a couple days.

Don't understand this point. It's chance of scum bussing because of pressure + chance of town guessing randomly vs. chance of town guessing randomly. You're saying the second is higher than the first but how could that be true? I think scum are much more likely to bus pressured by this plan than when not pressured by this plan.

[mcmcsalot]

First, Why do you insist the only option other than making some kind of plan is lynching randomly?

Second you are taking be best scenario possible. You are saying scum has pressure to bus and adding that to the chance of town guessing randomly. If both scum put townies you are locking us in to a 2/8 chance we hit town + the chance that the 6 town guesses correctly. Which is worse, if you say scum busses yes it's better but we can't know what scums going to do. Your trying to turn the game 100% into a math problem and role a probability die. How about we scumhunt.

[mcmcsalot]

For what it's worth I feel like ta's plan is town concocted, just bad.

[Robz888]

For what it's worth I feel like ta's plan is town concocted, just bad.

Me too. Though I'm less sure it's bad.

[O]

Haddock is the most scummy. We should definitely lynch either him or Robz.

[Roadrunner7671]

Haddock is buddying me or something, so I'd be cool with starting a wagon on him.

[mcmcsalot]

Haddock is the most scummy. We should definitely lynch either him or Robz.

I could lynch haddock

[Haddock]

Heyo, sorry, been super busy.

I don't get why I'm suddenly scummy, but whatever.
I like the interaction between O and Robz.  O comes off really towny, Robz a little bit so.

Haddock are you going to answer these questions?

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Why easy thing bad?

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Also what info do we normally get from a roadrunner lynch that we don't get here?

Well, yes, when I eventually returned.

"Why easy thing bad?".  Well.  Easy lynches are often mislynches, for one.  But that's not the best argument.  In truth, I phrased it poorly.  I'm just referring to the fact that RR gets lynched D1 all the time, and it's so often just a dumb, dumb, lynch. 

What info won't we get?  We won't get a flip.  That's obvious, right?  I don't understand the question.

[Haddock]

TA pretty much null.  I like vote: gkrieg.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 1.2

gkrieg13 (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock (1): Roadrunner7671
Roadrunner7671 (3): mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13
Robz888 (1): O
Not voting (1): Twistedarcher

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, 3rd of June at 1am FT.

[Awaclus]

Heyo, sorry, been super busy.

I don't get why I'm suddenly scummy, but whatever.

Why are you not suddenly scummy?

[Haddock]

Heyo, sorry, been super busy.

I don't get why I'm suddenly scummy, but whatever.

Why are you not suddenly scummy?

Oh, hi Awaclus.  Glad you haven't changed.

[Awaclus]

Heyo, sorry, been super busy.

I don't get why I'm suddenly scummy, but whatever.

Why are you not suddenly scummy?

Oh, hi Awaclus.  Glad you haven't changed.

Hi. But you didn't answer the question.

[mcmcsalot]

Heyo, sorry, been super busy.

I don't get why I'm suddenly scummy, but whatever.
I like the interaction between O and Robz.  O comes off really towny, Robz a little bit so.

Haddock are you going to answer these questions?

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Why easy thing bad?

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Also what info do we normally get from a roadrunner lynch that we don't get here?

Well, yes, when I eventually returned.

"Why easy thing bad?".  Well.  Easy lynches are often mislynches, for one.  But that's not the best argument.  In truth, I phrased it poorly.  I'm just referring to the fact that RR gets lynched D1 all the time, and it's so often just a dumb, dumb, lynch. 

What info won't we get?  We won't get a flip.  That's obvious, right?  I don't understand the question.

But we all know we don't get flips, you we don't get flips on anyone's lynch so why is roadrunner's lynch specifically usually full of infor that doesn't exist here.

It sounds like roadrunner was at l-2 and you said hey let's not do that while providing two reasons that aren't really reasons at all.

vote: haddock

[gkrieg13]

TA pretty much null.  I like vote: gkrieg.

Any reason for this combination of reads?

[Robz888]

I could lynch Haddock.

[Awaclus]

TA pretty much null.  I like vote: gkrieg.

Any reason for this combination of reads?

Any reason for why he shouldn't have that combination of reads?

[gkrieg13]

TA pretty much null.  I like vote: gkrieg.

Any reason for this combination of reads?

Any reason for why he shouldn't have that combination of reads?

Just seems like a weird combination. Like why express those reads, but not others?

[Twistedarcher]

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Ok, so this is a bit of a weird post, since RR had posted literally nothing of value up to this point. But I suppose it's a meta-post, and not a this game post. Haddock, I agree there's not really a reason to lynch RR -- but do you think there's a reason to not lynch him?

[Twistedarcher]

@Mcmc, I disagree that we should use wagon analysis as our key tool this game, since that relies so heavily on flips. Interactions and possible partnerships are where I'm looking. But I also don't want to distract the conversation with this debate, so I'll scumhunt how I want and you can scumhunt how you want since my plan pretty clearly isn't happening at this point

[Twistedarcher]

FoS at Robz and Mcmc for thinking my plan comes from town, when I've done literally nothing this game (in my eyes) to convince anyone I'm town.

[Twistedarcher]

Haddock's reads seem a bit forced, personally I am struggling to come up with reads -- but I am loathe to come out and lynch the person who's posting the most reads on day 1.

[gkrieg13]

Haddock's reads seem a bit forced, personally I am struggling to come up with reads -- but I am loathe to come out and lynch the person who's posting the most reads on day 1.

But is he really posting the most reads?  He has posted the same amount of reads as a bunch of other people, and posting a null read, isn't really posting a read at all!

[Twistedarcher]

Heyo, sorry, been super busy.

I don't get why I'm suddenly scummy, but whatever.
I like the interaction between O and Robz.  O comes off really towny, Robz a little bit so.

Haddock are you going to answer these questions?

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Why easy thing bad?

Nyeehhhhh.  Are people seriously wanting an RR lynch? 
Not a fan, it's such an easy thing and the usual benefit (info from his flip - RR's flip is usually full of info) doesn't exist here.

Also what info do we normally get from a roadrunner lynch that we don't get here?

Well, yes, when I eventually returned.

"Why easy thing bad?".  Well.  Easy lynches are often mislynches, for one.  But that's not the best argument.  In truth, I phrased it poorly.  I'm just referring to the fact that RR gets lynched D1 all the time, and it's so often just a dumb, dumb, lynch. 

What info won't we get?  We won't get a flip.  That's obvious, right?  I don't understand the question.

But we all know we don't get flips, you we don't get flips on anyone's lynch so why is roadrunner's lynch specifically usually full of infor that doesn't exist here.

It sounds like roadrunner was at l-2 and you said hey let's not do that while providing two reasons that aren't really reasons at all.

vote: haddock

You say Haddock's trying to move votes off of RR when he's at L-2, and then you're the one moving off of RR at L-2. I think Mcmc-RR is more likely than Haddock-RR. I would be surprised by Haddock-RR.

[Twistedarcher]

Haddock's reads seem a bit forced, personally I am struggling to come up with reads -- but I am loathe to come out and lynch the person who's posting the most reads on day 1.

But is he really posting the most reads?  He has posted the same amount of reads as a bunch of other people, and posting a null read, isn't really posting a read at all!

I mean I didn't go and count or anything, but that was my impression.

[gkrieg13]

Also I think scum very much want to protect each other this game, more than other games, because of the lack of flips.

[Twistedarcher]

Plopping my vote down on Vote: Robz. Weirded out by him giving me townpoints for my plan.

[Twistedarcher]

Also I think scum very much want to protect each other this game, more than other games, because of the lack of flips.

I agree with this

[gkrieg13]

Haddock's reads seem a bit forced, personally I am struggling to come up with reads -- but I am loathe to come out and lynch the person who's posting the most reads on day 1.

But is he really posting the most reads?  He has posted the same amount of reads as a bunch of other people, and posting a null read, isn't really posting a read at all!

I mean I didn't go and count or anything, but that was my impression.

Hmmmm.  That was not my impression at all.

[Twistedarcher]

Also I think scum very much want to protect each other this game, more than other games, because of the lack of flips.

I agree with this

But I also think they want to protect more with votes than with words, if that makes sense

[Awaclus]

Also I think scum very much want to protect each other this game, more than other games, because of the lack of flips.

Wouldn't that make it too obvious, though?

[gkrieg13]

Also I think scum very much want to protect each other this game, more than other games, because of the lack of flips.

Wouldn't that make it too obvious, though?

I don't think so.  I mean there are already a couple of people that I would be pretty against lynching, so I would look like a partner to them.

[Roadrunner7671]

One of Robz and mcmc are scum, one is not.

[Twistedarcher]

One of Robz and mcmc are scum, one is not.

Which is which?

[mcmcsalot]

Also I think scum very much want to protect each other this game, more than other games, because of the lack of flips.

Wouldn't that make it too obvious, though?

I don't think so.  I mean there are already a couple of people that I would be pretty against lynching, so I would look like a partner to them.

Same, I don't see myself lynching gkrieg or ta today, awaclus is being awaclus which is impossible for me to read robz is being really sheepy, roadrunner didn't respond to the votes on him in a super towny way and haddock is scummy.

[mcmcsalot]

Haddock/robz isn't and unbelievable pair have they talked about eachother yet?

[gkrieg13]

Also I think scum very much want to protect each other this game, more than other games, because of the lack of flips.

Wouldn't that make it too obvious, though?

I don't think so.  I mean there are already a couple of people that I would be pretty against lynching, so I would look like a partner to them.

Same, I don't see myself lynching gkrieg or ta today, awaclus is being awaclus which is impossible for me to read robz is being really sheepy, roadrunner didn't respond to the votes on him in a super towny way and haddock is scummy.

I agree with a lot of this.  I don't think I want to lynch TA or Awaclus today.  Would be very happy with Haddock or RR.

I think sheepy Robz is townie Robz, but I'm not really sure.  I know he definitely plays much worse as town than as scum!

[mcmcsalot]

Also I forgot O exsisted

[mcmcsalot]

Heyo, sorry, been super busy.

I don't get why I'm suddenly scummy, but whatever.
I like the interaction between O and Robz.  O comes off really towny, Robz a little bit so.

Snipped up this is haddocks thoughts on robz.

[gkrieg13]

This is a weird game to be so small.  I think 8 is the smallest game ever run on F.DS right?

[mcmcsalot]

I could lynch Haddock.

Reasons bro

[Roadrunner7671]

Haddock/robz isn't and unbelievable pair have they talked about eachother yet?

I mean, I'm scummy on them both but I'm also scummy on you...

[mcmcsalot]

Haddock/robz isn't and unbelievable pair have they talked about eachother yet?

I mean, I'm scummy on them both but I'm also scummy on you...

Meeaning when we lynch then both and the game hasn't ended because we only got your partner you are gonna have a great call back read to support pushing my lynch?

[Awaclus]

Also I think scum very much want to protect each other this game, more than other games, because of the lack of flips.

Wouldn't that make it too obvious, though?

I don't think so.  I mean there are already a couple of people that I would be pretty against lynching, so I would look like a partner to them.

Are they also pretty against lynching you? Because that would be somewhat suspicious (not necessarily condemning though).

[gkrieg13]

Also I think scum very much want to protect each other this game, more than other games, because of the lack of flips.

Wouldn't that make it too obvious, though?

I don't think so.  I mean there are already a couple of people that I would be pretty against lynching, so I would look like a partner to them.

Are they also pretty against lynching you? Because that would be somewhat suspicious (not necessarily condemning though).

Well one of them is you, but I don't really know how you feel about me.

[Roadrunner7671]

Haddock/robz isn't and unbelievable pair have they talked about eachother yet?

I mean, I'm scummy on them both but I'm also scummy on you...

Meeaning when we lynch then both and the game hasn't ended because we only got your partner you are gonna have a great call back read to support pushing my lynch?

Yes?

[Robz888]

Vote: Haddock to get this game going again.

[gkrieg13]

I'm also very willing to vote Haddock, but I believe he is L-1?

[O]

I don't see how he could possibly be L-1 here.

[gkrieg13]

vote: Haddock then

[O]

Vote: Haddock

no activity, best chance of hitting scum is unexpected hammer d1, no later wagon analysis to benefit from longer conversations.

i believe this is hammer.

[O]

i bet ima have a fun time tomorrow

[gkrieg13]

WHy?

[O]

for quickly hammering, even though i think it's justified

[gkrieg13]

No flips is gonna suck

[O]

it does change the dynamics from a normal mafia game, yes...

[Roadrunner7671]

I think activity here is gonna be bad, but I don't really know why. Nothing to analyze I guess.

[gkrieg13]

Well we should probably always make sure we give the lynched a chance to say something before they die, so lynches like this aren't desirable

[LaLight]

Vote Count 1.final

gkrieg13 (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock (5): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13, O
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Not voting (0):

With 8 alive it took 5 to lynch.

Haddock was lynched.

D2 starts now and ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

[Awaclus]

Vote: O

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.1

O (1): Awaclus
Not voting (6): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13, O, Twistedarcher

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

[Roadrunner7671]

This is so weird!

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't like gkrieg's quickness to up the Haddock wagon though.

[Awaclus]

I don't like gkrieg's quickness to up the Haddock wagon though.

You were on the wagon yourself.

[Roadrunner7671]

I don't like gkrieg's quickness to up the Haddock wagon though.

You were on the wagon yourself.

But was I like 'whatever, let's just vote for no reason and put him at L-1 cause whatever.'

[Robz888]

This is impossible!!!

[Awaclus]

This is impossible!!!

What?

[Robz888]

This is impossible!!!

What?

Not having a flip, I mean. What did we even learn?

[Awaclus]

This is impossible!!!

What?

Not having a flip, I mean. What did we even learn?

Well, we learned that O tricked gkrieg into assuming that his vote won't lynch Haddock.

[Robz888]

This is impossible!!!

What?

Not having a flip, I mean. What did we even learn?

Well, we learned that O tricked gkrieg into assuming that his vote won't lynch Haddock.

Gkrieg's vote didn't lynch Haddock, O's did.

[Robz888]

Vote: O, though, for quick lynching what was likely to have been a town player.

[O]

Vote: O, though, for quick lynching what was likely to have been a town player.

By my estimations he had a 5/7ths chance of being town. Was he higher than that for you by any chance?

[Twistedarcher]

From my perspective, at least one scum was on the wagon, or the scumteam is Haddock/Awaclus. If we think he's scum, we should lynch Awaclus (or me from everyone else's perspective), but it's probably safe to move forward with the assumption that he's town.

[Awaclus]

This is impossible!!!

What?

Not having a flip, I mean. What did we even learn?

Well, we learned that O tricked gkrieg into assuming that his vote won't lynch Haddock.

Gkrieg's vote didn't lynch Haddock, O's did.

Yep, immediately after O told gkrieg he can safely vote Haddock because Haddock wasn't at L-1.

[Twistedarcher]

Vote: Haddock

no activity, best chance of hitting scum is unexpected hammer d1, no later wagon analysis to benefit from longer conversations.

i believe this is hammer.

I do agree with this logic, though. It's likely Haddock was town, but I agree with the thought process of forcing through a lynch where scum can't move their votes off of a partner they weren't planning on keeping their vote on.

[O]

I don't see how he could possibly be L-1 here.

and I was right.

Gkrieg didn't want to quickly hammer and appear scummy doing so. Gkrieg did not hammer. If Gkrieg didn't want Haddock lynched, presumably he wouldn't put him to L-1. I didn't deceive him at all.

[gkrieg13]

I definitely wanted haddock lynched, but I wanted him to be around for twilight to get a reaction.

[Awaclus]

If Gkrieg didn't want Haddock lynched, presumably he wouldn't put him to L-1. I didn't deceive him at all.

If gkrieg did want Haddock lynched, presumably he would have been willing to hammer him. You deceived him and very much intentionally so.

[O]

If Gkrieg didn't want Haddock lynched, presumably he wouldn't put him to L-1. I didn't deceive him at all.

If gkrieg did want Haddock lynched, presumably he would have been willing to hammer him. You deceived him and very much intentionally so.

Presumably people are unwilling to hammer if doing so makes them look scummy. Gkrieg did vote for him, implying that he would like him lynched, though not necessarily on my terms at my time.

Gkrieg has in fact answered this problem for us!

I definitely wanted haddock lynched

making further discussion with you about this exceedingly useless, as someone who claims to know what Gkrieg wants more than Gkrieg does is unhelpful and wrong.

[Awaclus]

Gkrieg has in fact answered this problem for us!

I definitely wanted haddock lynched

making further discussion with you about this exceedingly useless, as someone who claims to know what Gkrieg wants more than Gkrieg does is unhelpful and wrong.

It doesn't matter what gkrieg was actually thinking at the time, as you couldn't have known it unless you are his scum partner. The fact is that you deliberately told gkrieg that he could safely vote for Haddock because there was no way it could have been L-1 (a wording which could be interpreted to mean that it's nowhere near L-1, too) and immediately quickhammered afterwards.

[O]

If gkrieg did want Haddock lynched

It doesn't matter what gkrieg was actually thinking at the time

[Awaclus]

If gkrieg did want Haddock lynched

It doesn't matter what gkrieg was actually thinking at the time

You're taking things out of context in order to push a narrative that suits you. See, this is how my post looks like in context:

If Gkrieg didn't want Haddock lynched

If gkrieg did want Haddock lynched

[gkrieg13]

If gkrieg did want Haddock lynched

It doesn't matter what gkrieg was actually thinking at the time

This is unhelpful. I didn't think I was putting him to L-1 and I didn't appreciate the hammer before he got a chance to react.

[O]

If gkrieg did want Haddock lynched

It doesn't matter what gkrieg was actually thinking at the time

You're taking things out of context in order to push a narrative that suits you. See, this is how my post looks like in context:

If Gkrieg didn't want Haddock lynched

If gkrieg did want Haddock lynched

I wasn't trying to point out some magical contradiction in your statements. It's just that what you did was an obvious bait and switch by stating a falsehood ("Gkrieg didn't want him lynched" ) and then pretending I brought up the allegedly irrelevant concept when I responded to it ("It doesn't matter what Gkrieg was actually thinking at the time"). Whether or not the points are true are secondary to the manipulation you're attempting with them.

[gkrieg13]

I do you understand why it is better to let people react to their imminent lynching?

[O]

I do you understand why it is better to let people react to their imminent lynching?

Absolutely. Wasn't thinking about it at the time of lynching, but it's fully valid complaint.


My only defense is that we were going at like 2 posts a day and I'm not convinced we wouldn't have had to wait forever to get a post by him given how he didn't respond to the accusations in the first place.

[gkrieg13]

I do you understand why it is better to let people react to their imminent lynching?

Absolutely. Wasn't thinking about it at the time of lynching, but it's fully valid complaint.


My only defense is that we were going at like 2 posts a day and I'm not convinced we wouldn't have had to wait forever to get a post by him given how he didn't respond to the accusations in the first place.

I mean I agree that this game is going to be slow, as most small games always are.  I think the hammer wasn't too bad, obviously I still think he was pretty scummy, but there weren't that many posts to go on.  I think people would've posted more if he had stayed at L-1 for a while though.

[gkrieg13]

I do you understand why it is better to let people react to their imminent lynching?

Absolutely. Wasn't thinking about it at the time of lynching, but it's fully valid complaint.


My only defense is that we were going at like 2 posts a day and I'm not convinced we wouldn't have had to wait forever to get a post by him given how he didn't respond to the accusations in the first place.

Actually I think this "only defense" is actually a pretty bad one for reasons in my last post.  I would argue that the hammer actually stalled the game more than a non-hammer would've

[O]

or someone would unvote and we'd get the joy of WIFOMing whether it was scum derailing a wagon or if scum wouldn't be ballsy enough to do that and it's just a concerned townie.

Which I guess? is still more reads to go off than we currently have, outside of the read that "O hammered = scum" that Robz is totally not scummily sheeping.

PPE: We've certainly already had more conversation post-hammer than we would have if I didn't hammer, so I disagree personally.

With or without the hammer though we haven't had any input from... 2/7? without reading back pretty sure you/me/robz/Awa/TA are the active posters ATM, would be nice in such a small game to get the last 2.

[gkrieg13]

I'm totally all for LAL here.  Scum have a higher chance of stalling in this game.
vote: RR

[Twistedarcher]

I'm totally all for LAL here.  Scum have a higher chance of stalling in this game.
vote: RR

vote:rr

[O]

Well thats enough for a prod. I'm not voting him unless he still doesn't post in a few days.

[Roadrunner7671]

I've been here.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm liking gkrieg less and less though. He's basically OMGUSing me. I also don't like that TA hopped on that so quick, even though his vote doesn't count.

[Roadrunner7671]

3. Awaclus

6. O
7. Roadrunner7671

I only have two townreads right now, and they're only towny because they haven't done anything scummy.

[gkrieg13]

3. Awaclus

6. O
7. Roadrunner7671

I only have two townreads right now, and they're only towny because they haven't done anything scummy.

So you don't think the hammer was at all scummy?

[Awaclus]

I could go for a RR lynch for sure.

[Awaclus]

I wasn't trying to point out some magical contradiction in your statements. It's just that what you did was an obvious bait and switch by stating a falsehood ("Gkrieg didn't want him lynched" ) and then pretending I brought up the allegedly irrelevant concept when I responded to it ("It doesn't matter what Gkrieg was actually thinking at the time"). Whether or not the points are true are secondary to the manipulation you're attempting with them.

You were the one who brought up the concept. I was the one responding to your bringing it up.

If Gkrieg didn't want Haddock lynched

This is the first post in which anyone starts to speculate whether or not gkrieg would have wanted the lynch to happen anyway.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.2

O (2): Awaclus, Robz888
Roadrunner7671 (2): gkrieg13, Twistedarcher
Not voting (3): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, O

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

[mcmcsalot]

Ta why are you voting rr again?

[Roadrunner7671]

Ta why are you voting rr again?

Because he can.

[Roadrunner7671]

3. Awaclus

6. O
7. Roadrunner7671

I only have two townreads right now, and they're only towny because they haven't done anything scummy.

So you don't think the hammer was at all scummy?

I think it was too scummy to be scum. I really don't see scum pulling something like that.

[Awaclus]

I think it was too scummy to be scum. I really don't see scum pulling something like that.

You're contradicting yourself here.

[mcmcsalot]

Robz why are you voting o?

[Awaclus]

Robz why are you voting o?

Why shouldn't he be voting O?

[Robz888]

Robz why are you voting o?

For hammering Haddock.

[mcmcsalot]

Robz why are you voting o?

For hammering Haddock.

So you didn't want haddock lynched? Or did you want haddock lynched and you think o's quickhammer indicated haddock was most likely town and O really wanted to get that lynch through?

[Robz888]

Robz why are you voting o?

For hammering Haddock.

So you didn't want haddock lynched? Or did you want haddock lynched and you think o's quickhammer indicated haddock was most likely town and O really wanted to get that lynch through?

The latter. I think O's quickhammer is scummy.

[gkrieg13]

I agree that the quickhammer was scummy, and thinking about it more, I think we need to be better about punishing scummy behavior so that the whole "too scummy to be scum" can't exist.

The hammer was very scummy because it didnt' give us a chance to see what Haddock would say after he got lynched.  The reasoning for the hammer was super scummy too.  O said that he didn't want the game to slow down, but Haddock would've found time at some point to post, so it is really a bad excuse.
vote: O

[mcmcsalot]

Post count:

Gkrieg: 36
Awaclus: 25
Mcmcsalot: 22
Twisted archer: 18
Roadrunner: 17
Robz: 16
O: 16

[mcmcsalot]

Also gkrieg put O to l-1 just so everyone is clear. Really people it takes two seconds to check the votes and post at l-2 and l-1...

[gkrieg13]

Also gkrieg put O to l-1 just so everyone is clear. Really people it takes two seconds to check the votes and post at l-2 and l-1...

Sorry, just came from a big game.  Didn't realize it was only 4 to lynch.

[mcmcsalot]

or someone would unvote and we'd get the joy of WIFOMing whether it was scum derailing a wagon or if scum wouldn't be ballsy enough to do that and it's just a concerned townie.

Which I guess? is still more reads to go off than we currently have, outside of the read that "O hammered = scum" that Robz is totally not scummily sheeping.

PPE: We've certainly already had more conversation post-hammer than we would have if I didn't hammer, so I disagree personally.

With or without the hammer though we haven't had any input from... 2/7? without reading back pretty sure you/me/robz/Awa/TA are the active posters ATM, would be nice in such a small game to get the last 2.

You realize the bolded statement is in quite contradiction to a few posts previously when you say.

If Gkrieg didn't want Haddock lynched, presumably he wouldn't put him to L-1. I didn't deceive him at all.

If gkrieg did want Haddock lynched, presumably he would have been willing to hammer him. You deceived him and very much intentionally so.

Presumably people are unwilling to hammer if doing so makes them look scummy. Gkrieg did vote for him, implying that he would like him lynched, though not necessarily on my terms at my time.

Gkrieg has in fact answered this problem for us!

I definitely wanted haddock lynched

making further discussion with you about this exceedingly useless, as someone who claims to know what Gkrieg wants more than Gkrieg does is unhelpful and wrong.

You realize you were wrong about me and roadrunner being lurkers, you actually have the least posts along with robz. And you are trying to have your cake and eat it to. You point out much of the discussion you had with awaclus was "pointless" but also say your hammer was towny because it generated more content than had you not hammered.

[gkrieg13]

To be fair, from that post count, it is really only fine to call me not a lurker.  Even you only have 6 more posts than the low counts, which isn't really that much.

[mcmcsalot]

To be fair, from that post count, it is really only fine to call me not a lurker.  Even you only have 6 more posts than the low counts, which isn't really that much.

Oh I agree, I'm not calling anyone a lurker, I'm scum reading O for calling me and rr lurkers when he has less posts

[gkrieg13]

To be fair, from that post count, it is really only fine to call me not a lurker.  Even you only have 6 more posts than the low counts, which isn't really that much.

Oh I agree, I'm not calling anyone a lurker, I'm scum reading O for calling me and rr lurkers when he has less posts

Got it.

[Twistedarcher]

Vote Count 2.2

O (2): Awaclus, Robz888
Roadrunner7671 (2): gkrieg13, Twistedarcher
Not voting (3): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, O

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

Interesting that the two wagons are on O and RR, but they're not voting for one another.

O, what do you think of RR?
RR, what do you think of O?

[Roadrunner7671]

I've already expressed that O is towny to me.

[O]

I have no desire to vote for RR now that he's posted.

To be fair, from that post count, it is really only fine to call me not a lurker.  Even you only have 6 more posts than the low counts, which isn't really that much.

Oh I agree, I'm not calling anyone a lurker, I'm scum reading O for calling me and rr lurkers when he has less posts

this is pathetically out of context. RR hadn't posted this game day, which is what I was referring to. It has nothing to do with post count.

[O]

Roadrunner is by far my strongest town read because he has very little consequence for voting for me here -- especially given that there's no flips.


Robz is by far my strongest scum read as his argument is incredibly lazy and scum tend to look for easy arguments and tunnel them for lynches in games like this.

MCMC is my second biggest scumread as he is  pretending then my refusal to go along with with Awaclus's crap is related to generating or not generating more discussion. The discussion he generates is genuinely useless, pedantic crap.

So if yall want to sheep me after you mislynch me...

Robz > MCMC > Awaclus > Gkrieg > TA > Roadrunner scummiest to least scummy.

[gkrieg13]

Why is TA such a strong townread for you?

[gkrieg13]

Also O and RR haven't given very many good reasons for town reading each other so much.  Makes me highly suspicious of them.

[O]

Also O and RR haven't given very many good reasons for town reading each other so much.  Makes me highly suspicious of them.

he's not hammering me?? He has no reason not to hammer me as scum, since you're all seemingly delusionally presenting it as a policy-esque lynch.

Why is TA such a strong townread for you?

He isn't. He's marginally more town than you, but not but much.

[O]

Seriously I can't imagine why scum RR wouldn't have hammered/wagoned me.

[Awaclus]

he's not hammering me??

Isn't that because he's your partner though?

[O]

he's not hammering me??

Isn't that because he's your partner though?

Frankly I'm tempted to vote Gkrieg because he said "we need to start lynching scummy behavior to remove the WIFOM" yet he's never once voted for you.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote Gkrieg

[O]

Well I wasn't entirely serious on that one...

I'll vote Gkrieg is he's the option compared to me, but I'd much much rather lynch the first three on my chain.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Gkrieg

This won't count

[gkrieg13]

he's not hammering me??

Isn't that because he's your partner though?

Frankly I'm tempted to vote Gkrieg because he said "we need to start lynching scummy behavior to remove the WIFOM" yet he's never once voted for you.

I don't really think that Awaclus is being anti-town right now.

[Roadrunner7671]

Vote Gkrieg

This won't count

Thanks. Vote: Gkrieg

[Awaclus]

he's not hammering me??

Isn't that because he's your partner though?

Frankly I'm tempted to vote Gkrieg because he said "we need to start lynching scummy behavior to remove the WIFOM" yet he's never once voted for you.

So he's just practicing what he preaches.

[Twistedarcher]

I agree with O's list for the most part, though I don't agree that RR is towny.

vote: robz

[Robz888]

I think I'm sticking with my O vote.

[gkrieg13]

I think I want to lynch O and RR.  They seem way too partnery.

[O]

That's what you said about  Haddock too, no?

I really don't see why scum wouldn't have hammered me already, so I think 1/1 or 2/2 scum are on my wagon. maybe thats OMGUS but it makes perfect sense to me in this flipless game.

So I'm going to Vote: Robz and it's probably going to end up being MCMC's choice who dies today?

[O]

If Haddock was town I see absolutely no reason for scum TA, MC or Roadrunner to not hammer me. 6-2 with little scummy evidence pointing to them would likely be a cakewalk.

So TLDR I'm reevaluating it to:

Robz > Gkrieg > Awaclus > MCMC > TA > RR

Gkrieg moves for seemingly setting up two likely mislynches in a row with his previous post, MCMC moving down because he hasn't hammered me.

That being said my lynch order would probably be Robz > Awaclus > Gkrieg, since the delta in %chance Gkrieg and Awaclus are scum is small enough that the fact that Awaclus's future behavior is atrociously predictable overweighs it.

[gkrieg13]

I mean you are doing the same thing with your lynch order that I was doing with my previous post.

[O]

I mean you are doing the same thing with your lynch order that I was doing with my previous post.

I'm not parsing this. I have no clue who the partner pair is, or that Haddock wasn't a successful hammer by me. I just think scum would have hammered me by this point, which only leaves you three as the scum pool.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry, I'm saying that you are giving me scum points for saying I want to lynch you and RR.

Then in your post you give a lynch order.

How is what you did not any different than what I did?  The difference is that I gave reasons why you and RR are #1/#2 that ties you together.

[O]

Sorry, I'm saying that you are giving me scum points for saying I want to lynch you and RR.

Then in your post you give a lynch order.

How is what you did not any different than what I did?  The difference is that I gave reasons why you and RR are #1/#2 that ties you together.

The difference is that my presumption is i'm going to be lynched and you're at no risk of being so. But I agree it was slightly hypocritical of me.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm happy to act partnery with O because I'm towny on him. If this was a normal game, O would be a mild town read, but I gotta exemplify my reads and stuff because there's no flips or lots of interactions.

[mcmcsalot]

My lynch order would be TA > roadrunner > O/Robz > awaclus > gkrieg

[O]

My lynch order would be TA > roadrunner > O/Robz > awaclus > gkrieg

why would scum TA or scum RR not lynch me unless i was also scum

[mcmcsalot]

My lynch order would be TA > roadrunner > O/Robz > awaclus > gkrieg

why would scum TA or scum RR not lynch me unless i was also scum

Because we're on page ten and there's no need to and this isn't mylo. If one of them is scum and so is alhaddock lynching hammering you and having to deal with the fallout is risky. TA was already voting for roadrunner, I guess I agree it's unlikely rr is scum and you are town. But that's why I put ta ahead of roadrunner.

I think ta is our best chance of ending the game, I think after that it's more likely awaclus as a haddock partner or a robz partner and then your lynch? But I would have to see how wagons go

[mcmcsalot]

mcmc vote count

O (3): Awaclus, Robz888, gkrieg
robz (2): twistedarcher, O
gkrieg (1): roadrunner
Not voting (1): mcmcsalot

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

Yesterday's wagon

Vote Count 1.final

gkrieg13 (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock (5): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13, O
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Not voting (0):

With 8 alive it took 5 to lynch.

Haddock was lynched.

D2 starts now and ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

vote: twistedarcher

[O]

My lynch order would be TA > roadrunner > O/Robz > awaclus > gkrieg

why would scum TA or scum RR not lynch me unless i was also scum

Because we're on page ten and there's no need to and this isn't mylo. If one of them is scum and so is alhaddock lynching hammering you and having to deal with the fallout is risky. TA was already voting for roadrunner, I guess I agree it's unlikely rr is scum and you are town. But that's why I put ta ahead of roadrunner.

I think ta is our best chance of ending the game, I think after that it's more likely awaclus as a haddock partner or a robz partner and then your lynch? But I would have to see how wagons go

I'll vote TA or roadrunner if the realistic options are myself being lynched or TA being lynched but obviously I'm not very enthusiastic about the prospect.

I think you have to be very confident that Haddock was scum to have your analysis make sense IMO. I hammered him and stand by that but even I think it's like at best 40% chance he was scum. If you're looking at a 2-scum team still remaining I think hammering me makes sense and your analysis falls a bit flat.

Either way I do think you're essentially in a kingmaker situation. I don't see Robz or Awaclus switching their votes off of me, and I barely see Gkrieg doing so. So you either can choose to lynch me or find a lynch that <me, you, TA, RoadRunner, 30% Gkrieg> would be able to vote for. Of those I think your best options are Robz (me, you, TA, RR), RR (You, TA, Gkrieg,...  Potentially robz?, potentially me if you threaten to hammer me instead but i'll keep arguing it's a mistake). TA (I'm not seeing how you get 4 here. You and who else? I'm in the same position as I am with RR and I don't think RR will vote for TA like TA will vote for RR.

TLDR: I don't see you successfully lynching anyone other than me, Robz, or potentially RoadRunner but that sames questionable

[Roadrunner7671]

Who here is towny on Gkrieg?

[O]

MCMC is which is all thats really relevant

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.3

O (3): Awaclus, Robz888, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Robz888 (2): Twistedarcher, O
Twistedarcher (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting (0):

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

[gkrieg13]

Who here is towny on Gkrieg?

This is fishing and scummy

[O]

Who here is towny on Gkrieg?

This is fishing and scummy

what is there to fish in your mind?

[gkrieg13]

Who here is towny on Gkrieg?

This is fishing and scummy

what is there to fish in your mind?

This goes along with the ask questions and let townies fill in the case.

Fishing for who to figure out who to push.

[O]

Who here is towny on Gkrieg?

This is fishing and scummy

what is there to fish in your mind?

This goes along with the ask questions and let townies fill in the case.

Fishing for who to figure out who to push.

I guess that's fishing by your definition but I really really fail to see it as scummy. These kind of prods seem super standard.

Feels more OMGUS than anything else.

[mcmcsalot]

Who here is towny on Gkrieg?

This is fishing and scummy

I thought this at first but in this game I think it's actually more important for town to know what scums reads are as opposed to scum wanting to know towns reads.

[mcmcsalot]

@O I get what you are saying but I do think haddock was scum. Or at least that's the current thought process I am working with. Robz not feeling similarly and voting for you worries me.

[O]

well your views do make a lot of sense under that assumption, just a bold one to make.

[mcmcsalot]

well your views do make a lot of sense under that assumption, just a bold one to make.

What makes you think that? What changed that made you think he's town now as opposed to day 1?

[O]

well your views do make a lot of sense under that assumption, just a bold one to make.

What makes you think that? What changed that made you think he's town now as opposed to day 1?

1. I thought he was the best shot at being scum, so I hammered, but that was like, a 45-50% chance instead of the 2/7 I have from random lynch. I never put massive amounts of faith into D1 reads.

2. The quick and stable wagon on me that seems absolutely locked onto only me has somewhat expectedly made me reevaluate how many scum I think are left.

[Robz888]

How many scum do you think are left?

[O]

who's being asked

[Robz888]

who's being asked

Ye, the round one

[O]

40% 1 60% 2 ?

[Twistedarcher]

I really do think Haddock was town, but also I'm off wagon so I have more reason to think that than the rest of you would.

[Twistedarcher]

Mcmc is townier, Robz still scummy. Robz/Awaclus are my two favorite lynches. But honestly none of you have given me a reason to believe you're towny, and I'm null/scummy on you all, and it's just a matter of degrees.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry, having car troubles so that is taking up all my time.  Will post later, still want an O lynch

[Roadrunner7671]

What's even going on at this point. I don't understand why we're all happy to give mcmc all that power. At this point I'll lynch anyone but O and Awaclus, but I'd prefer gkrieg.

[O]

What's even going on at this point. I don't understand why we're all happy to give mcmc all that power. At this point I'll lynch anyone but O and Awaclus, but I'd prefer gkrieg.

Well quite simply MCMC has that power because three people are voting for me and won't change their opinions. So either MCMC will lynch me or he could pmuch dictate who else he wants to lynch and I'll go along with it.

I don't think MCMC is the most townie person here but from my perspective I think we've come close to default losing if MCMC is scum and Haddock wasn't. I just don't see the turnaround if MCMC + 1 other is scum, so the only chance of winning is trusting that MCMC is town.

Well tbh even if we weren't close to default losing I'd still follow any of MCMC's plans instead of getting lynched myself.

[Awaclus]

What's even going on at this point. I don't understand why we're all happy to give mcmc all that power. At this point I'll lynch anyone but O and Awaclus, but I'd prefer gkrieg.

Well quite simply MCMC has that power because three people are voting for me and won't change their opinions. So either MCMC will lynch me or he could pmuch dictate who else he wants to lynch and I'll go along with it.

I don't think MCMC is the most townie person here but from my perspective I think we've come close to default losing if MCMC is scum and Haddock wasn't. I just don't see the turnaround if MCMC + 1 other is scum, so the only chance of winning is trusting that MCMC is town.

Well tbh even if we weren't close to default losing I'd still follow any of MCMC's plans instead of getting lynched myself.

How do you know Haddock wasn't scum?

[O]

if MCMC is scum and Haddock wasn't

[O]

2. The quick and stable wagon on me that seems absolutely locked onto only me has somewhat expectedly made me reevaluate how many scum I think are left.

[Awaclus]

[default losing] if MCMC is scum and Haddock wasn't

so the only chance of winning is trusting that MCMC is town.

[O]

Yes, literally after the sentence I suggested the conditional. I'm sorry, I should have repeated the conditional more carefully for those who can't induce context.

[Awaclus]

It's not at all the same conditional. In that conditional, you're also assuming scum!mcmc.

[Awaclus]

Besides, if your conclusion regarding mcmc relies on Haddock's alignment, how can you draw any conclusion at all unless you know what alignment Haddock was?

[O]

Besides, if your conclusion regarding mcmc relies on Haddock's alignment, how can you draw any conclusion at all unless you know what alignment Haddock was?

I assign percent chances to each probability and then factor those into what i think the best option is.

Basically I think if MCMC is scum and haddock isn't we've almost certainly lost, and if MCMC is scum and haddock was too than we're only in bad shape as opposed to certainly going to lose.

Either way I'd be sheeping MCMC regardless what my % opinion on his alignment is unless it was like, 80%. Because if I don't sheep MCMC then a 100% town member is almost certainly getting lynched.

[O]

This doesn't feel like rocket science to me.

MCMC: "O vote for this person or I lynch you because 3 people are hardstuck voting for you".

O: "OK".

[Awaclus]

Besides, if your conclusion regarding mcmc relies on Haddock's alignment, how can you draw any conclusion at all unless you know what alignment Haddock was?

I assign percent chances to each probability and then factor those into what i think the best option is.

Basically I think if MCMC is scum and haddock isn't we've almost certainly lost, and if MCMC is scum and haddock was too than we're only in bad shape as opposed to certainly going to lose.

Either way I'd be sheeping MCMC regardless what my % opinion on his alignment is unless it was like, 80%. Because if I don't sheep MCMC then a 100% town member is almost certainly getting lynched.

This is not at all what you said originally, and by saying this, you can't undo the fact that you did already scumslip.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.4

O (3): Awaclus, Robz888, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Robz888 (2): Twistedarcher, O
Twistedarcher (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting (0):

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

[O]

Besides, if your conclusion regarding mcmc relies on Haddock's alignment, how can you draw any conclusion at all unless you know what alignment Haddock was?

I assign percent chances to each probability and then factor those into what i think the best option is.

Basically I think if MCMC is scum and haddock isn't we've almost certainly lost, and if MCMC is scum and haddock was too than we're only in bad shape as opposed to certainly going to lose.

Either way I'd be sheeping MCMC regardless what my % opinion on his alignment is unless it was like, 80%. Because if I don't sheep MCMC then a 100% town member is almost certainly getting lynched.

This is not at all what you said originally, and by saying this, you can't undo the fact that you did already scumslip.

It very much is part of what I said originally.

Everything's a scumslip when you arbitrarily declare me as scum and fit everything to match that conclusion.

Fortunately you're just an nigh-irrelevant constant in this game: I don't expect you to play better or attempt to not scumread me, so I admit i'm going make very little effort in convincing you that is isn't.

[Roadrunner7671]

Let's shake things up.
Vote: Robz

[mcmcsalot]

Awaclus there is no scumslip there from O. I hate people making "scumslip" arguments so so much I almost want to lynch you because of it. The problem is it's just how you do things.

I still want to lynch twisted archer.

Let's shake things up.
Vote: Robz

Thing shaken, now gimmie reasons. Also why do you think twistedarcher is town?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus there is no scumslip there from O. I hate people making "scumslip" arguments so so much I almost want to lynch you because of it.

You can feel free to hate it but this is still the only valid way of getting a better than full random chance to lynch scum.

[Awaclus]

Everything's a scumslip when you arbitrarily declare me as scum and fit everything to match that conclusion.

You can try to twist things whatever way you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you have more information than town would have in your position, which you revealed by taking it for granted that Haddock was town.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay for once I can argue with you about this without being scum therefor validating everything you say like in the past. I am also operating under the assumption that haddock was in fact scum.

If you can point out where O claimed to 100% know haddock was scum then I will go along with you. I think you are taking phrasing and manipulating it to "prove" your read. Which again I have to give you some credit for being right in the past, however I also think you have lost many times employing this strategy.

[mcmcsalot]

Well quite simply MCMC has that power because three people are voting for me and won't change their opinions. So either MCMC will lynch me or he could pmuch dictate who else he wants to lynch and I'll go along with it.

I don't think MCMC is the most townie person here but from my perspective I think we've come close to default losing if MCMC is scum and Haddock wasn't. I just don't see the turnaround if MCMC + 1 other is scum, so the only chance of winning is trusting that MCMC is town.

Well tbh even if we weren't close to default losing I'd still follow any of MCMC's plans instead of getting lynched myself.

What I have gathered is you believe the underlined portion of this quote is somehow indicative that O is aware of haddocks alignment and that that alignment is scum. But he is in fact saying "if mcmc is scum and haddock is not" town is close to losing. So he isn't operating under that assumption. I don't see how that speaks to O knowing haddocks alignment.

[Robz888]

I'm surprised people aren't trying harder to lynch me. I feel like town!gkrieg would be all over me by now.

Vote: Gkrieg

[gkrieg13]

I'm surprised people aren't trying harder to lynch me. I feel like town!gkrieg would be all over me by now.

Vote: Gkrieg

Why would I want to lynch you?  I don't understand this at all.

[Twistedarcher]

I mean awaclus, I'm assuming haddock was town, does that make me scum too?

[Awaclus]

If you can point out where O claimed to 100% know haddock was scum then I will go along with you. I think you are taking phrasing and manipulating it to "prove" your read.

I guess that's where the misunderstanding stems from. O didn't claim to know Haddock was scum, he claimed to know Haddock was town.

What I have gathered is you believe the underlined portion of this quote is somehow indicative that O is aware of haddocks alignment and that that alignment is scum. But he is in fact saying "if mcmc is scum and haddock is not" town is close to losing. So he isn't operating under that assumption. I don't see how that speaks to O knowing haddocks alignment.

He isn't operating under that assumption in that sentence. He is operating under the assumption that you're town and Haddock is also town in the next. I don't know how I can make this any more clear, but let's try anyway:

There are three possibilities here:

1) mcmc is scum and Haddock is not -> town loses for sure t. O
3) mcmc is town -> we should assume mcmc is town t. O
2) mcmc is scum and Haddock is also scum -> O didn't even consider that this could possibly be the case, because he knows Haddock can't be scum.

[Awaclus]

I mean awaclus, I'm assuming haddock was town, does that make me scum too?

Well, I'm also assuming that Haddock was town, but I'm at least considering the possibility that he wasn't, and you're probably considering it as well. O isn't, and that's why he's scum.

[Awaclus]

Although from O's scumslip, we can conclude that Haddock was, indeed, town.

[mcmcsalot]

Although from O's scumslip, we can conclude that Haddock was, indeed, town.

You are taking the fact that O didn't lay out every possibility as an indication that he has more information. Why make that assumption? He never said town is in a bad shape if mcmc is scum because haddock was town. He said if, and laid out one singular scenario. He said:

I don't think MCMC is the most townie person here but from my perspective I think we've come close to default losing if MCMC is scum and Haddock wasn't. I just don't see the turnaround if MCMC + 1 other is scum, so the only chance of winning is trusting that MCMC is town.

The bolded statement is a scenario saying if haddock was town and mcmc+someone else is scum town is in bad shape.

Ohhhhh wait a minute. You think because he then says "the only chance of winning is trusting mcmc is town" that's saying the only two scenarios are A) mcmc scum/haddock town we lose, and B)mcmc town/haddock anything, so we should treat mcmc as town. So you are saying he left out mcmc and haddock are both scum.

I see what you are getting at it's just trivial and you are wrong. O didn't assume haddock was town because he says that if mcmc is town we should treat mcmc as town. He simply making the point as to why he is assuming I am town.

You are making it appear that O didn't acknowledge the possibility haddock was scum but he did. It's just that in either scenario where I am town and haddock is town or scum, he would trust me. He is then ruling out the scenario where haddock is town and I am scum because of his opinion town has basically lost if that is the case.

[mcmcsalot]

I have no clue what this means for your alignment awaclus but you are wrong about what O's statements indicate. He does give a scenario where haddock is scum. You are correct he doesn't mention the scenario where haddock and I are both scum, which would perhaps indicate he knows that I am town but he included a scenario where I was scum as well. You are taking the fact that he didn't lay out every single scenario and then trying to manipulate what he said in a way to make the statements he did make prove your reads.

[Awaclus]

I have no clue what this means for your alignment awaclus but you are wrong about what O's statements indicate. He does give a scenario where haddock is scum. You are correct he doesn't mention the scenario where haddock and I are both scum, which would perhaps indicate he knows that I am town but he included a scenario where I was scum as well. You are taking the fact that he didn't lay out every single scenario and then trying to manipulate what he said in a way to make the statements he did make prove your reads.

I'm not manipulating anything. You are taking the one scenario where O pretended to not know Haddock's alignment as proof that O really doesn't know Haddock's alignment, but that's not how it works. 90-93% of the time, scum posts lies, so if you only look at the big picture, you'll conclude that everyone is town but that conclusion is based on the lies scum tells you. You have to focus on the details that are a little off, because that's the part that's actual truth.

O's post was going well until halfway through he forgot that Haddock could be scum. If you focus on part 1 of that sentence, sure, O looks super towny and all, but if you even consider the latter part for a while, there's no explanation for why that would come from town.

[gkrieg13]

I'm still wanting to lynch O because of the quick hammer and the reasoning for it being bad.

[mcmcsalot]

I'm still wanting to lynch O because of the quick hammer and the reasoning for it being bad.

Still a valid reason to lynch O

[gkrieg13]

I'm still wanting to lynch O because of the quick hammer and the reasoning for it being bad.

Still a valid reason to lynch O

I haven't seen a better one to lynch anyone else.

[Robz888]

I'm surprised people aren't trying harder to lynch me. I feel like town!gkrieg would be all over me by now.

Vote: Gkrieg

Why would I want to lynch you?  I don't understand this at all.

I just meant that in most games I can feel you pressuring me by now, and you're not doing that.

[mcmcsalot]

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.

[mcmcsalot]

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.

Though I understand this is just awaclus and I should save my breath.

[Awaclus]

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.

I'm saying town doesn't make mistakes.

[Robz888]

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.

I'm saying town doesn't make mistakes.

More of them than scum does.

[mcmcsalot]

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.

I'm saying town doesn't make mistakes.

Vote Count 1.final

gkrieg13 (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock (5): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13, O
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Not voting (0):

With 8 alive it took 5 to lynch.

Haddock was lynched.

D2 starts now and ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

Although from O's scumslip, we can conclude that Haddock was, indeed, town.

That's time I checked either your wrong and haddock was scum or your wrong and at least 3 townies have already made a mistake this game.

[mcmcsalot]

Awaclus you are taking a "mistake" or as I call it " not making sure your idea is 3000% fleshed out" and saying it is clearly indicative of O having more information than the rest of us and have thus figured out the alignment of two people because of it. I'm saying town makes those "mistakes" just as often as mafia.

I'm saying town doesn't make mistakes.

More of them than scum does.

He doesn't believe your "theories" based on hundreds of hidden minority games about "alignment tells" and "play patterns" you must use facts.

[mcmcsalot]

Town loses like most of the time isn't that by definition town making mistakes. And if your just talking about "slips" I could go grab you endless quotes of town "scumslipping".

[Awaclus]

More of them than scum does.

No, town doesn't make mistakes. We can't afford to.

That's time I checked either your wrong and haddock was scum or your wrong and at least 3 townies have already made a mistake this game.

Voting for a person who is town is not necessarily a mistake.

Town loses like most of the time isn't that by definition town making mistakes.

That's why town loses.


Seriously, check out these games:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17134.0
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16911.0

This goes to show that a town that doesn't make a single mistake is not an unreasonable expectation, not even in a newbie game. And then town doesn't have such a hard time winning anymore.

[gkrieg13]

I'm surprised people aren't trying harder to lynch me. I feel like town!gkrieg would be all over me by now.

Vote: Gkrieg

Why would I want to lynch you?  I don't understand this at all.

I just meant that in most games I can feel you pressuring me by now, and you're not doing that.

Other people are much more worthy of the pressure.  I think considering you are at L-1, I would be much more likely to lynch you if you were scum.

[mcmcsalot]

From the first game you posted.

Vote: TWM

He's town btw.

That logic just completely fails to work. But ok.

It works just fine.

Premise 1: It's hard to see scumslips when you have a scum mindset. (That's why scum makes scumslips in the first place)
Premise 2: When you are scum, you have a scum mindset.

Conclusion: It's hard to see scumslips when you are scum.

Look you being all obstinate that your logic is infallible and laying out why you can take one conclusion and lead to many others.

But I guess that is just a big old magic trick from me trying to get Awaclus to townslip by letting us in on the secret. I musta be the mafia!

That wouldn't be a townslip. But it's true that you must be mafia.

You delivering a final conclusion about how your logic means you are sure someone is mafia.

You plant that vote on twm for the rest of the day. No doubt you would have continued if he didn't turn out to be the jailkeeper who jailkept scum and blocked a nk. This game does nothing to prove how town should play a "perfect" game.

This is the last I'm talking about any of this with you though because as I have told myself over and over but haven't listened it's a waste of my time.

Do whatever the hell you want and play however you want, it's a game. Your not even that bad at it, just infuriating.

[Awaclus]

You delivering a final conclusion about how your logic means you are sure someone is mafia.

You plant that vote on twm for the rest of the day. No doubt you would have continued if he didn't turn out to be the jailkeeper who jailkept scum and blocked a nk.

I wasn't sure TWM was mafia, I was just saying I was sure in order to not let scum know what I was actually thinking. The reality of the situation was that I thought LaLight was scummy, so I wanted him to think he had scumslipped somewhere (even though that wasn't really the case at the time) to agitate him and hopefully get an actual scumslip out of him that way, and in order to do that, I had to vote for TWM when he said he couldn't find a scumslip by LL. Obviously that was a true statement from TWM and I very well knew that, so that "logic" wasn't at all the reason why I was voting for him.

In other words, I didn't make a mistake there. TWM didn't really make a mistake either, because he was acting under the same wrong assumption I wanted scum to have and the way he played stemmed from that.


SpaceAnemone did make a mistake in that game though, and they weren't town.

[O]

MCMC what do you think the odds are that three town members would immediately latch onto me like that and not even remotely budge all day?

From my town perspective it's incredibly unlikely. But even from an observer standpoint it seems odd for two of the three players.

Having played with Robz in the past it's very non-characteristic of him IMO, he'd usually go beyond "there's an easy but not great reason to lynch someone, so I'm voting for them and sticking with it". (And my quick-hammer truly is a rather weak reason to gun this hard for the vote. I still haven't seen my explanation refuted that a quickhammer is by far the likeliest way to catch scum D1, I've only seen "I wish you gave time to see a reaction from him" from Gkrieg as a legitimate argument, but remember how inactive the game was right there). 

Obviously Robz might trend towards that behavior (voting for any action he minorly disagrees with) because of the nature of this flipless game, but I think it's just as or more likely that he's scum looking for the easy mislynch where people like you yourself have essentially given them a pass for being on my wagon:

And then after all that gunning for me, and leaving me at L-1 forever Robz hops onto Gkrieg:

I'm surprised people aren't trying harder to lynch me. I feel like town!gkrieg would be all over me by now.

Vote: Gkrieg

Which to be honest I'm having difficultly deciding is a neutral action or a scummy action. Perhaps neutral, as I could see both town!robz and scum!robz say "oh shit, the O lynch hasn't worked so far and it looks like I'm next on the chopping block maybe". I'm definitely not dropping my suspicions of him just because he dropped the vote on me though, leaving his vote for that long while i'm at L-1 still remains.

[mcmcsalot]

I have lots of thoughts to your post O, I think you have hit on some good points but I need to re-evaluate when I'm more sober.

[Awaclus]

I still haven't seen my explanation refuted that a quickhammer is by far the likeliest way to catch scum D1

Well, it's a full-random way to catch scum D1. That's a lot worse than scumhunting.

[O]

fully random is

1. not what is was in the slightest

2. better than consensus "scumhunting" if two scum are able to induce the consensus and the effect of reads is small

So not only are you misrepresenting what happened, you're mathematically incorrect

[Awaclus]

fully random is

1. not what is was in the slightest

2. better than consensus "scumhunting" if two scum are able to induce the consensus and the effect of reads is small

So not only are you misrepresenting what happened, you're mathematically incorrect

Well, I guess scum could have affected the quickhammer so it's worse than full random. Point taken.

It's not better than scumhunting though. Scum can't influence the consensus because there's no evidence against townies.

[gkrieg13]

I still haven't seen my explanation refuted that a quickhammer is by far the likeliest way to catch scum D1

Well, it's a full-random way to catch scum D1. That's a lot worse than scumhunting.

Either way, not giving haddock a chance to say something before he was hammered was super scummy.

[O]

I still haven't seen my explanation refuted that a quickhammer is by far the likeliest way to catch scum D1

Well, it's a full-random way to catch scum D1. That's a lot worse than scumhunting.

Either way, not giving haddock a chance to say something before he was hammered was super scummy.

It's interesting that you only decided this was "super scummy" after 2 people already got on a wagon on me. Before that you seemed quite reticent about that, just stating that it "wasn't desirable" and that you "would have preferred" that I didn't.

More importantly, why are you bringing that up as if it's some relevant add-on to Awaclus's ridiculous arguments?

Like actually: read Awaclus's statement, and read Gkriegs response. They have nothing to do with each other whatsoever except the already established common suspicion on me. It's quite possible Gkrieg had the motive he wanted to push (Lynch O) before reading/responding to Awaclus's post.

Of course, this could also just be a townie mistake, so it's no smoking gun against Gkrieg.

Unless Gkrieg doesn't believe in townie mistakes of course. We don't know his opinion since he didn't respond to anything Awaclus actually said :p

[gkrieg13]

I'm on my phone, so I didn't clip out Awacluss statement. They have nothing to do with each other except that they respond to the same thing from you. It was your quote that I wanted to quote, not Awa's

[gkrieg13]

I'm surprised people aren't trying harder to lynch me. I feel like town!gkrieg would be all over me by now.

Vote: Gkrieg

Why would I want to lynch you?  I don't understand this at all.

I just meant that in most games I can feel you pressuring me by now, and you're not doing that.

I still don't get why that makes me the scummiest person in the game

[O]

I'm on my phone, so I didn't clip out Awacluss statement. They have nothing to do with each other except that they respond to the same thing from you. It was your quote that I wanted to quote, not Awa's

If that's the case, why didn't you quote my statement? Because by quoting Awaclus you were very selectively clipping and ignoring:

I've only seen "I wish you gave time to see a reaction from him" from Gkrieg as a legitimate argument, but remember how inactive the game was right there). 

[gkrieg13]

I'm on my phone, so I didn't clip out Awacluss statement. They have nothing to do with each other except that they respond to the same thing from you. It was your quote that I wanted to quote, not Awa's

If that's the case, why didn't you quote my statement? Because by quoting Awaclus you were very selectively clipping and ignoring:

I've only seen "I wish you gave time to see a reaction from him" from Gkrieg as a legitimate argument, but remember how inactive the game was right there). 

Well the game wasn't super inactive at that point.  Robz votes for Haddock, then you hammer all within the same night, and the previous page is all on the same day, so we were at least still getting a page per day.

[Awaclus]

Awaclus's ridiculous arguments?

Just because you say they are ridiculous doesn't mean they aren't 100% correct.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.5

O (2): Awaclus, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): Robz888
Robz888 (3): Twistedarcher, O, Roadrunner7671
Twistedarcher (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting (0):

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

[Twistedarcher]

Is everyone not voting robz at this point unwilling to lynch him?

[Awaclus]

Is everyone not voting robz at this point unwilling to lynch him?

Well, I'll lynch anyone to avoid no lynch (obviously), but I'm not particularly inclined to lynch Robz at the moment because he's neither O nor RR.

[gkrieg13]

Is everyone not voting robz at this point unwilling to lynch him?

Well, I'll lynch anyone to avoid no lynch (obviously), but I'm not particularly inclined to lynch Robz at the moment because he's neither O nor RR.

Weirdly enough, this is exactly my thoughts.

[Robz888]

Back to Vote: O

[O]

So the Gkrieg excursion was to demonstrate you weren't laser-locked onto me when you claim 3 rounds later (after lynching me and Roadrunner and being at LyLo, if Haddock was town) that Awaclus/Gkrieg were more scummy?

I cannot see a reasonable other explanation for Robz voting patterns. He voted Gkrieg when I was at L-1 but made absolutely no effort to convince anyone else to vote for Gkrieg. Certainly his convictions weren't behind his vote.

[Twistedarcher]

I definitely think that scum will almost never bus in this game, it just makes no sense. So we have some possible partners pairings for both Robz and O from these wagons.

[Roadrunner7671]

I maintain my stance that I will vote for anyone but O or Awaclus. I'd prefer not to vote for TA but I will. Everyone else is very fair game.

[mcmcsalot]

I'm still confused why all the people on the haddock wagon aren't looking more to lynch awaclus and ta. Like Ta is making the most sense about scum not busing which is why if we think haddock was scum we think awac or ta are scum. Also the lynch on O is crazy, like 4 people voted haddock real quick, vote L-1 at your own discretion, I don't think his hammer was that scummy. I agree his explanation post was weird but I don't think that makes him scum. Gkrieg, like you shouldn't have l-1'd haddock if you thought he was so towny you now want to lynch the guy that hammered him, if that makes sense.

[Robz888]

I am having a really hard time with this game. The lack of verifiable information is just crippling.

[gkrieg13]

I'm still confused why all the people on the haddock wagon aren't looking more to lynch awaclus and ta. Like Ta is making the most sense about scum not busing which is why if we think haddock was scum we think awac or ta are scum. Also the lynch on O is crazy, like 4 people voted haddock real quick, vote L-1 at your own discretion, I don't think his hammer was that scummy. I agree his explanation post was weird but I don't think that makes him scum. Gkrieg, like you shouldn't have l-1'd haddock if you thought he was so towny you now want to lynch the guy that hammered him, if that makes sense.

I thought Haddock was scummy and wanted to put pressure on him and see how other people reacted to that.  I think that putting people to L-1 isn't just for lynching them, if that makes sense.  Considering that is the only information we get in this game, I wanted to leave him at L-1, or at least give him a chance to react.

O's hammer took away what little information we could've gotten from Haddock.  And I have no idea now if Haddock was scum or town, he was scummy then, but didn't have very many posts to look at anyways.

[gkrieg13]

Also the fact that RR and O don't want to vote for each other when they were both the only wagons looks very partnery to me.

[Roadrunner7671]

Also the fact that RR and O don't want to vote for each other when they were both the only wagons looks very partnery to me.

I'd bus. Maybe it wouldn't be the optimal scum play or what you guys expect, but I'd definitely bus here.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.6

O (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Robz888
Robz888 (3): Twistedarcher, O, Roadrunner7671
Twistedarcher (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting (0):

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

[gkrieg13]

Also the fact that RR and O don't want to vote for each other when they were both the only wagons looks very partnery to me.

I'd bus. Maybe it wouldn't be the optimal scum play or what you guys expect, but I'd definitely bus here.

I have no idea why you said this.

[Roadrunner7671]

Also the fact that RR and O don't want to vote for each other when they were both the only wagons looks very partnery to me.

I'd bus. Maybe it wouldn't be the optimal scum play or what you guys expect, but I'd definitely bus here.

I have no idea why you said this.

Because I don't feel compelled to withhold information.

[gkrieg13]

Conditionals are just kind of strange in this kind of a situation.  You don't know if you would bus unless you are scum and are bussing.

[O]

Conditionals are just kind of strange in this kind of a situation.  You don't know if you would bus unless you are scum and are bussing.

What?

Are you suggesting town players should never talk about what they would hypothetically do in the game situation if they were scum?

What?

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.6

O (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Robz888
Robz888 (3): Twistedarcher, O, Roadrunner7671
Twistedarcher (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting (0):

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT. IT'S IN 17 HOURS

[gkrieg13]

Conditionals are just kind of strange in this kind of a situation.  You don't know if you would bus unless you are scum and are bussing.

What?

Are you suggesting town players should never talk about what they would hypothetically do in the game situation if they were scum?

What?

No, I'm just saying that it is a weird thing to say.

[gkrieg13]

Also, how does

Conditionals are just kind of strange in this kind of a situation

Translate to:

Are you suggesting town players should never talk about what they would hypothetically do in the game situation if they were scum?

[gkrieg13]

Also with less than 17 hours left, it would be nice if mcmcsalot hammered the person he thinks is scummier.

[gkrieg13]

I'm not super interested in lynching Robz right now

[Roadrunner7671]

No lynching today is fine...

[gkrieg13]

No lynching today is fine...

Uh...  you didn't read the setup did you?

[Roadrunner7671]

No lynching today is fine...

Uh...  you didn't read the setup did you?

Oh, I thought it was failure to lynch for 2 days.

[mcmcsalot]

Robz, gkrieg and o? Would you guys be okay with lynching ta?

O has said he would to avoid his own lynch. Robz ta is now voting you. Gkrieg you have said you don't want to lynch robz. So are you all hardened fast to the wagons you are on?

Note I will hammer one of Robz/O before deadline if nothing else happens.

[Robz888]

Mehhhhhhh I don't know. I like the O wagon. It's hard!

[gkrieg13]

Robz, gkrieg and o? Would you guys be okay with lynching ta?

O has said he would to avoid his own lynch. Robz ta is now voting you. Gkrieg you have said you don't want to lynch robz. So are you all hardened fast to the wagons you are on?

Note I will hammer one of Robz/O before deadline if nothing else happens.

Not that excited about lynching TA, and very excited about lynching O after his misrepresentation of what I said.

[Roadrunner7671]

Keep in mind, a townie will self hammer, so if for some reason no one is around at the deadline and O is (and he's town) all is not lost.

[Robz888]

Keep in mind, a townie will self hammer, so if for some reason no one is around at the deadline and O is (and he's town) all is not lost.

Well, I'm not sure--"don't worry, maybe someone will self hammer!"--is this great thing to be saying.

[O]

I'm likely semi-available until deadline?

It's extremely likely that MCMC is town and will hammer before then though. But I guess I'll self-hammer with 10-15 minutes pre-deadline. Or should I wait closer to deadline... if I selfhammer right at deadline, am I proving my towniness...? This is the problem with hard "no lynch = lose" deadlines, you get mindgames like this which are dumb.

I will be willing to vote TA if MCMC dictates so and 2 other people have indicated willingness. MCMC is right that TA could be scum if Haddock was, and is one of our better choices to win on night 2. But I don't think playing under the assumption that Haddock was scum is the right assumption, so obviously I very much prefer the Robz/GKrieg/Awaclus lynch options.

[mcmcsalot]

I'll definitely be hammering before I go to bed. I'm curious what robz has to say to me who operating under the assumption haddock is scum has to chose between you(robz) and the guy who hammered haddock.

[Twistedarcher]

I'd switch to O over no lynch, but I think letting Mcmc get away with not deciding between O/RR is sketchy. I want him to commit to one or the other.

[Robz888]

I'll definitely be hammering before I go to bed. I'm curious what robz has to say to me who operating under the assumption haddock is scum has to chose between you(robz) and the guy who hammered haddock.

What? I understood none of this.

[O]

I'll definitely be hammering before I go to bed. I'm curious what robz has to say to me who operating under the assumption haddock is scum has to chose between you(robz) and the guy who hammered haddock.

What? I understood none of this.

If mcmc believes haddock was scum, he's saying why vote for me over you since I hammered scum.

[Robz888]

Well, haddock wasn't scum in all likelihood. So.

[mcmcsalot]

Well I hate robz answers but I also didn't like o's answers to why he hammered and we have super little info to go off of, and neither of you are likely haddock partners so vote: O. I find gkrieg/awa much townier than ta and rr so better luck here.

[O]

grats to rob/gkrieg probably i guess. Gonna be fun seeing Awaclus's post-game justifications for how it was actually everyone elses fault that his reads are consistently wrong and he tunnels on exclusively town members.


the beauty of this plan is once RR and TA are lynched town won't have enough time regardless to realize how bad they've screwed it up.

[O]

really wish MCMC had ended this charade a few days ago instead of stringing it along, given that you seem to have went off of literally nothing of the past few days, where Robz/Gkrieg have been absolutely contentless and scummy.

[gkrieg13]

really wish MCMC had ended this charade a few days ago instead of stringing it along, given that you seem to have went off of literally nothing of the past few days, where Robz/Gkrieg have been absolutely contentless and scummy.

Really you think I'm content less?

[gkrieg13]

Also, how does

Conditionals are just kind of strange in this kind of a situation

Translate to:

Are you suggesting town players should never talk about what they would hypothetically do in the game situation if they were scum?

You never answered this.

[gkrieg13]

Also that means at least one of Haddock/O is town

[O]

Also, how does

Conditionals are just kind of strange in this kind of a situation

Translate to:

Are you suggesting town players should never talk about what they would hypothetically do in the game situation if they were scum?

You never answered this.

i don't know what a conditional is referring to other than talking about the hypothetical "if i were scum".

[gkrieg13]

I said they were kind of strange and you went on this thing that I said that town should never do something.

Those are not even close to the same thing.

[O]

I said they were kind of strange and you went on this thing that I said that town should never do something.

Those are not even close to the same thing.

if strange == scummy they are in fact quite close to the same implication.

[O]

if somehow we last to a point where yall realize "oh crap O was probably town", for  please sheep Robz > Gkrieg > Awaclus

[O]

maybe gkrieg > robz because at least robz was consistently on me instead of "i don't think what O did was that bad" into full on "O is scum and I will contribute literally nothing else to the conversation except to say its O-RR pairing" in the blink of an eye.

[Twistedarcher]

Bummer, i really wanted robz. i do think it's robz and someone else on the wagon. this felt like a scum wagon on robz that just didn't get there.

i think we have lynched two town thus far

[Twistedarcher]

want to see what mcmc says tomorrow when he has to admit that at least one lynch was town. i'm sure he will continue to say haddock was scum but i am not buying that at all

[LaLight]

Vote Count 2.final

O (4): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Robz888, mcmcsalot
Robz888 (3): Twistedarcher, O, Roadrunner7671
Not voting (0):

With 7 alive it took 4 to lynch.

O was lynched.

Day 3 starts now and ends Saturday, June 17 at 1am FT.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 3.0


Not voting (6): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Robz888, mcmcsalot, Twistedarcher, Roadrunner7671

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[Twistedarcher]

Not really sure what to do. i won't have the numbers to get through any of my preferred lynches.

[gkrieg13]

Bummer, i really wanted robz. i do think it's robz and someone else on the wagon. this felt like a scum wagon on robz that just didn't get there.

i think we have lynched two town thus far

How can you tell the difference between a scum wagon and a town wagon?

[gkrieg13]

Not really sure what to do. i won't have the numbers to get through any of my preferred lynches.

I'll lynch Robz, if we lynch RR after.

[gkrieg13]

Actually I'm surprised that mcmcsalot hammered O. It looked like he was going to hammer Robz.

What swayed you to lynch O?

[Awaclus]

Also that means at least one of Haddock/O is town

How did you know this?

[mcmcsalot]

want to see what mcmc says tomorrow when he has to admit that at least one lynch was town. i'm sure he will continue to say haddock was scum but i am not buying that at all

Well I hate robz answers but I also didn't like o's answers to why he hammered and we have super little info to go off of, and neither of you are likely haddock partners so vote: O. I find gkrieg/awa much townier than ta and rr so better luck here.

Hence why I didn't want to lynch either of them. Did you even read my post before you decided you wanted to paint me as scummy? Why wouldn't I admit one of the lynches were town. I also have never claimed to be sure haddock was scum, it's just that in a game with no flips I have no idea why so many people lynched someone then immediately went "naaa he was definitely town let's not lynch anyone who has a chance to be his partner".

[Robz888]

Well, we know O and Haddock were not both scum, and that's about it. Man this is hard.

[mcmcsalot]

Actually I'm surprised that mcmcsalot hammered O. It looked like he was going to hammer Robz.

What swayed you to lynch O?

mostly because I find you and awaclus townier than ta and rr. So if we were wrong about haddock d1, I would rather rely on you and awaclus to catch scum!O who may be partners with ta/rr, than lynch robz who I don't think is partner with you or awaclus.

[gkrieg13]

Also that means at least one of Haddock/O is town

How did you know this?

Well O would've just conceded otherwise.

[mcmcsalot]

Well, we know O and Haddock were not both scum, and that's about it. Man this is hard.

It's not hat hard it's a game of potential partners.

vote: twistedarcher who could very easily be scum!haddock's partner or scum!O's partner.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote Count 1.final

gkrieg13 (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock (5): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13, O
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Not voting (0):

Awaclus, Twistedarcher off wagon.

Vote Count 2.final

O (4): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Robz888, mcmcsalot
Robz888 (3): Twistedarcher, O, Roadrunner7671
Not voting (0):

Twistedarcher, roadrunner off wagon.

Mcmc, robz, gkrieg were on both wagons.

My preferred lynch order would be TA > Roadrunner then someone else who I don't want to say yet.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 3.1

Twistedarcher (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting (5): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Robz888, Twistedarcher, Roadrunner7671

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends Saturday, June 17 at 1am FT.

[mcmcsalot]

If it wasn't obvious my order is because from my perspective likely scum pair are.

Haddock/Twistedarcher
Haddock/awaclus
O/twistedarcher
O/roadrunner
Robz/Gkrieg

[mcmcsalot]

Okay, I had a plan!

Each person names one person to lynch. We pick a random player, and then whomever that player names get lynched. Scum either have to name a town player, which can give us help in identifying pairs, or name their partner, increasing the odds of a scum lynch d1.

Also remember when TA had this ridiculous plan that would have prevented us from doing any of the analysis I have just done. Granted there would have been a different kind of analysis to be done based on who each player named.

[Robz888]

I do not think mcmcsalot is scum, so I will join him in this. Vote: TwistedArcher

[Twistedarcher]

Okay, I had a plan!

Each person names one person to lynch. We pick a random player, and then whomever that player names get lynched. Scum either have to name a town player, which can give us help in identifying pairs, or name their partner, increasing the odds of a scum lynch d1.

Also remember when TA had this ridiculous plan that would have prevented us from doing any of the analysis I have just done. Granted there would have been a different kind of analysis to be done based on who each player named.

This "analysis" has gotten us nowhere, it's probably lynched two townies and is going to have us lynch a third today.

[Twistedarcher]

Vote Count 1.final

gkrieg13 (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock (5): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13, O
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Not voting (0):

Awaclus, Twistedarcher off wagon.

Vote Count 2.final

O (4): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Robz888, mcmcsalot
Robz888 (3): Twistedarcher, O, Roadrunner7671
Not voting (0):

Twistedarcher, roadrunner off wagon.

Mcmc, robz, gkrieg were on both wagons.

My preferred lynch order would be TA > Roadrunner then someone else who I don't want to say yet.

My scenario: Haddock is town, O is town. Robz is scum. One of his scum buddies voted O to prevent a scum!Robz lynch.

really I think everything O said about this game was spot on.

[Twistedarcher]

So much of this analysis is based on Haddock being scum, which to me is just absurd. Obviously I have more reason to think that. But even so.

We lynched him day 1 with zero information, AND with mafia daychat being a thing. That's just sooo unlikely to me. No matter who we lynched D1, no matter if I was on/off wagon, you have to think they are town right? Like what are the odds of us correctly lynching D1 in a game with mafia daychat? Basically if you're saying that Haddock/me are partners you're saying we're like the worst scum partners. Let me tell you, if Haddock was my scum partner, no way he goes down D1 without me doing literally anything.

Seriously. Look at D1. Re-read it. If Haddock and I are scum partners, I am seriously the worst player to ever play this game. MAFIA HAVE DAYCHAT. Mafia will NOT go down that easily D1.

[Twistedarcher]

Regardless, there's probably zero I can do. O was correct, I'm pretty sure I'm correct. I'm not going to convince Robz/Mcmc though. I think RR will probably agree with me. I am pretty sure one of Gkrieg/Awaclus won't since there's a good chance there's a scum in there.

If you lynch me today, will you guys admit that you screwed up, you've lynched zero scum so far, and lynch Robz tomorrow?

[Twistedarcher]

I also think there's a decent chance Mcmc is scum, and playing a good scum game. Less sold on his towniness than O was. But I do think that Robz is scum in most cases and he should be our lynch.

Vote: Robz

[Twistedarcher]

If one town member is wrong and won't be persuaded, the game's over. So given that the game is over if Mcmc is town, since I don't see him being convinced, it might be best to just assume Robz/Mcmc scum team and hope I'm correct and can get Gkrieg/Awaclus on board. If it's Robz/Awaclus or Robz/Gkrieg, I think the game is over.

Ofc Robz could be town and it could be two of Mcmc/Awaclus/Gkrieg, but I don't think that's the case. In that case Robz probably gets lynched.

Definitely believe that RR is town in all this.

[gkrieg13]

I think I actually like a Robz lynch. He has had less activity than normal, which could come from a day hat QT, especially if it was with his brother.

[Twistedarcher]

I think I actually like a Robz lynch. He has had less activity than normal, which could come from a day hat QT, especially if it was with his brother.

What are your thoughts on Mcmc? Town who's wrong, or master manipulating scum?

[Twistedarcher]

Haddock is the most scummy. We should definitely lynch either him or Robz.

Haddock is buddying me or something, so I'd be cool with starting a wagon on him.

Haddock is the most scummy. We should definitely lynch either him or Robz.

I could lynch haddock

I could lynch Haddock.

Here's the start of the Haddock wagon. Mcmc and Robz are #3 and #4 on that wagon, and then Mcmc pushes it the rest of the day.

[gkrieg13]

I think I actually like a Robz lynch. He has had less activity than normal, which could come from a day hat QT, especially if it was with his brother.

What are your thoughts on Mcmc? Town who's wrong, or master manipulating scum?

Well I thought he was town until he hammered O, then came in strong today against you.

Really every town just needs to pick 2 other townies and refuse to lynch them.

I still strongly believe Awaclus is town, and after O got lynched, his twilight stuff seemed townie, which makes me believe that RR is also town.

Plus, if mcmc or Robz are scum, I think the other one is the most likely partner because of how the lynch went down yesterday.

[gkrieg13]

For me, it is just the way that he was contemplating hammering Robz yesterday, then Robz comes in a sheeps him.  Just seems very strange.

[Twistedarcher]

I'm still confused why all the people on the haddock wagon aren't looking more to lynch awaclus and ta. Like Ta is making the most sense about scum not busing which is why if we think haddock was scum we think awac or ta are scum. Also the lynch on O is crazy, like 4 people voted haddock real quick, vote L-1 at your own discretion, I don't think his hammer was that scummy. I agree his explanation post was weird but I don't think that makes him scum. Gkrieg, like you shouldn't have l-1'd haddock if you thought he was so towny you now want to lynch the guy that hammered him, if that makes sense.

The lynch on O is crazy, yet he ends up lynching O over Robz. Looking for any similar defense of Robz, but this really does scream Mcmc-Robz.

[Twistedarcher]

Awaclus there is no scumslip there from O. I hate people making "scumslip" arguments so so much I almost want to lynch you because of it. The problem is it's just how you do things.

I still want to lynch twisted archer.

Let's shake things up.
Vote: Robz

Thing shaken, now gimmie reasons. Also why do you think twistedarcher is town?

Robz at L-1 in the previous post. Mcmc still defending O. Let's see what happens and what he says about Robz.

[Twistedarcher]

Robz, gkrieg and o? Would you guys be okay with lynching ta?

O has said he would to avoid his own lynch. Robz ta is now voting you. Gkrieg you have said you don't want to lynch robz. So are you all hardened fast to the wagons you are on?

Note I will hammer one of Robz/O before deadline if nothing else happens.

Says he'll hammer one of Robz/O, but still has not offered a single defense of Robz who has been at L-1 this entire time.

[Twistedarcher]

Well I hate robz answers but I also didn't like o's answers to why he hammered and we have super little info to go off of, and neither of you are likely haddock partners so vote: O. I find gkrieg/awa much townier than ta and rr so better luck here.

This runs 100% opposite to his earlier defense of O's hammer.

[Robz888]

I think I actually like a Robz lynch. He has had less activity than normal, which could come from a day hat QT, especially if it was with his brother.

No way! A scum mcmc-Robz team would result in a way overactive Robz here.

[Twistedarcher]

So here's what happened D2:

Robz was at L-1, Mcmc was voting for neither Robz nor O. Mcmc offers vigorous defenses of O, saying his lynch is crazy, and his hammer on Haddock wasn't crazy. Mcmc offers very little defense of Robz.

However, despite thinking the wagon on O is crazy, he still lynches O over Robz. If this were to be true for town!Mcmc, he would have offered a lot more town reads on Robz, instead of saying nothing.

Can we please lynch Robz today and probably Mcmc tomorrow? This screams partner, and I think this is 100% a game where scum would not bus, since you don't get the protection of having lynched a verified mafia member.

[Twistedarcher]

Mcmc, what changed between the lynch of O being "crazy" to you actually lynch O? Why did you not lynch Robz when you said basically nothing about him when his wagon was at L-1?

[Twistedarcher]

I think I actually like a Robz lynch. He has had less activity than normal, which could come from a day hat QT, especially if it was with his brother.

What are your thoughts on Mcmc? Town who's wrong, or master manipulating scum?

Well I thought he was town until he hammered O, then came in strong today against you.

Really every town just needs to pick 2 other townies and refuse to lynch them.

I still strongly believe Awaclus is town, and after O got lynched, his twilight stuff seemed townie, which makes me believe that RR is also town.

Plus, if mcmc or Robz are scum, I think the other one is the most likely partner because of how the lynch went down yesterday.

Wagon analysis says that gkrieg/Awaclus would be just as likely scum partners to Robz as Mcmc would be.

[Twistedarcher]

Although, part of me thinks that if Mcmc is town, he would have considered lynching Robz a lot more than he did. I'm not sure why Robz got a pass, and I need to hear from Mcmc about that. Because it clearly wasn't about O being scummy, given Mcmc's defenses of him all day, it was clearly about Robz being extremely extremely towny.

[Awaclus]

I still think O/RR is by far the most likely pairing. Twilight stuff is not super difficult to fake. Vote: RR

[Twistedarcher]

thoughts on the evidence i just posted, awaclus?

[gkrieg13]

vote: Robz

[gkrieg13]

From my perspective, I really don't think Awaclus is scum, which means that I just need to make it to 3-person LYLO with him and we will win, as long as we lynch at least one scum before we are down to 4 people.

If the team was O/RR, then we already got one of them, which means that it is safer to lynch other singles of pairings, instead of trying to lynch the second partner.

So I think I want to lynch Robz today, and then maybe TA tomorrow?  The main thing with TA is just me being paranoid and remembering him when he was scum in my very first game.  I would also consider putting mcmcsalot in Robz's place, because I could see him being scum with someone other than Robz more than I see Robz being scum with someone other than mcmc (considering I think Awaclus is town, so the only other person to not be on the Robz wagon was mcmcsalot.

So I guess I want to lynch mcmcsalot more actually.

So I propose we lynch mcmcsalot and then TA and see what happens.

[gkrieg13]

vote: mcmcsalot

[Awaclus]

thoughts on the evidence i just posted, awaclus?

Well, I could possibly lynch mcmc today if I don't get much support for my RR wagon. I don't think voting for O was scummy because O was scummy, but there's another point against mcmc that I don't want to bring up yet because it's nothing scientific.

[Twistedarcher]

I'd much rather lynch robz than mcmc. Robz/gkrieg and robz/awaclus are possible but i don't think mcmc/gkrieg or mcmc/awaclus are.

[Twistedarcher]

thoughts on the evidence i just posted, awaclus?

Well, I could possibly lynch mcmc today if I don't get much support for my RR wagon. I don't think voting for O was scummy because O was scummy, but there's another point against mcmc that I don't want to bring up yet because it's nothing scientific.

there's very little scientific in this game, i'd like to see your point even if it ends up being meaningless

[Awaclus]

From my perspective, I really don't think Awaclus is scum, which means that I just need to make it to 3-person LYLO with him and we will win

That's not how it works unless I also have such a strong townread on you.

[Awaclus]

thoughts on the evidence i just posted, awaclus?

Well, I could possibly lynch mcmc today if I don't get much support for my RR wagon. I don't think voting for O was scummy because O was scummy, but there's another point against mcmc that I don't want to bring up yet because it's nothing scientific.

there's very little scientific in this game, i'd like to see your point even if it ends up being meaningless

I'd be fine with you seeing it but unfortunately I'd also have to show it to mcmc himself, which is the part that I don't want to do.

[Twistedarcher]

thoughts on the evidence i just posted, awaclus?

Well, I could possibly lynch mcmc today if I don't get much support for my RR wagon. I don't think voting for O was scummy because O was scummy, but there's another point against mcmc that I don't want to bring up yet because it's nothing scientific.

what about robz?

[Awaclus]

thoughts on the evidence i just posted, awaclus?

Well, I could possibly lynch mcmc today if I don't get much support for my RR wagon. I don't think voting for O was scummy because O was scummy, but there's another point against mcmc that I don't want to bring up yet because it's nothing scientific.

what about robz?

I'll lynch Robz over no lynch, obviously. I don't really have much more I want to say about him.

[Twistedarcher]

thoughts on the evidence i just posted, awaclus?

Well, I could possibly lynch mcmc today if I don't get much support for my RR wagon. I don't think voting for O was scummy because O was scummy, but there's another point against mcmc that I don't want to bring up yet because it's nothing scientific.

what about robz?

I'll lynch Robz over no lynch, obviously. I don't really have much more I want to say about him.

but you wouldnt lynch him over any other player?

[Awaclus]

thoughts on the evidence i just posted, awaclus?

Well, I could possibly lynch mcmc today if I don't get much support for my RR wagon. I don't think voting for O was scummy because O was scummy, but there's another point against mcmc that I don't want to bring up yet because it's nothing scientific.

what about robz?

I'll lynch Robz over no lynch, obviously. I don't really have much more I want to say about him.

but you wouldnt lynch him over any other player?

I didn't say that.

[Twistedarcher]

Ok. well i've said my share for now, time to wait to see what everyone makes of it.

[gkrieg13]

I'd much rather lynch robz than mcmc. Robz/gkrieg and robz/awaclus are possible but i don't think mcmc/gkrieg or mcmc/awaclus are.

See I know that one of those is impossible, and don't think the other one is likely, so I would rather lynch mcmc because of the possibility of him with RR or you.

[Twistedarcher]

I'd much rather lynch robz than mcmc. Robz/gkrieg and robz/awaclus are possible but i don't think mcmc/gkrieg or mcmc/awaclus are.

See I know that one of those is impossible, and don't think the other one is likely, so I would rather lynch mcmc because of the possibility of him with RR or you.

yeah, i understand. i'm not sure how we get past that impasse.

[Robz888]

Bump

[gkrieg13]

I think I'm at the point where I will only lynch one of mcmc/robz today, and have a very strong preference for mcmc

[Awaclus]

I think I'm at the point where I will only lynch one of mcmc/robz today, and have a very strong preference for mcmc

What if you can't get a mcmc/robz lynch today?

[gkrieg13]

I think I'm at the point where I will only lynch one of mcmc/robz today, and have a very strong preference for mcmc

What if you can't get a mcmc/robz lynch today?

Well it depends on the other options.  I have tentatively chosen you and RR as my 2 townies, so I guess I would lynch TA as well, but only like right near the deadline.

[Twistedarcher]

Bump

Why are you bumping when you're contributing absolutely nothing?

[Roadrunner7671]

I think I'm at the point where I will only lynch one of mcmc/robz today, and have a very strong preference for mcmc

Why mcmcmsalot over Robz?

[gkrieg13]

I think I'm at the point where I will only lynch one of mcmc/robz today, and have a very strong preference for mcmc

Why mcmcmsalot over Robz?

I already outlined that

[gkrieg13]

From my perspective, I really don't think Awaclus is scum, which means that I just need to make it to 3-person LYLO with him and we will win, as long as we lynch at least one scum before we are down to 4 people.

If the team was O/RR, then we already got one of them, which means that it is safer to lynch other singles of pairings, instead of trying to lynch the second partner.

So I think I want to lynch Robz today, and then maybe TA tomorrow?  The main thing with TA is just me being paranoid and remembering him when he was scum in my very first game.  I would also consider putting mcmcsalot in Robz's place, because I could see him being scum with someone other than Robz more than I see Robz being scum with someone other than mcmc (considering I think Awaclus is town, so the only other person to not be on the Robz wagon was mcmcsalot.

So I guess I want to lynch mcmcsalot more actually.

So I propose we lynch mcmcsalot and then TA and see what happens.

[Robz888]

Bump

Why are you bumping when you're contributing absolutely nothing?

Fair. I really don't know who I want to lynch, accept I don't particularly want to lynch mcmcsalot or Awaclus.

[Awaclus]

accept I don't particularly want to lynch mcmcsalot or Awaclus.

I accept that.

[Robz888]

Well now I've changed my mind.

[mcmcsalot]

Mcmc, what changed between the lynch of O being "crazy" to you actually lynch O? Why did you not lynch Robz when you said basically nothing about him when his wagon was at L-1?

Not much changed but I also never found robz scummy. I really didn't want to lynch robz or O. Like I said I mainly lynched O because of the other people on each wagon. You and roadrunner are very scummy to me, I would have lynched either of them over Robz or O. Given the choice between Robz and O I liked the people on the O wagon waay more than the people on the Robz wagon.

[mcmcsalot]

For me, it is just the way that he was contemplating hammering Robz yesterday, then Robz comes in a sheeps him.  Just seems very strange.

Can you point to where I contemplated hammering robz? Or is it just because I took a long time to hammer O?

People are making it seem like I town read O and scum read robz all day. I didn't think the O hammer was super scummy but o also didn't like O's explanation of his hammer when gkrieg questioned him about it. I then argued with awaclus about a scumslip argument for the sake of I hate scumslip arguments period. There wasn't a lot robz had done period, but like I said I found O's wagon townier than robz. I really think I have an order that should force a town win. Really each townie just has to lynch one scum and then find one person you know is town. (Someone may have said this).

[gkrieg13]

I'll definitely be hammering before I go to bed. I'm curious what robz has to say to me who operating under the assumption haddock is scum has to chose between you(robz) and the guy who hammered haddock.

[Robz888]

I'll definitely be hammering before I go to bed. I'm curious what robz has to say to me who operating under the assumption haddock is scum has to chose between you(robz) and the guy who hammered haddock.

I doubt Haddock is scum so this is all false premises.

[LaLight]

Vote Count 3.2

Twistedarcher (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Roadrunner7671 (1): Awaclus
mcmcsalot (1): gkrieg13
Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends Saturday, June 17 at 1am FT.

[gkrieg13]

I'll definitely be hammering before I go to bed. I'm curious what robz has to say to me who operating under the assumption haddock is scum has to chose between you(robz) and the guy who hammered haddock.

I doubt Haddock is scum so this is all false premises.

I understand that, but that is what mcmcsalot said on the same day that he hammered O, and I don't think you responded to that before he hammered.

[mcmcsalot]

He responded with this.

Well, haddock wasn't scum in all likelihood. So.

And then I said I hate robz answers but that I also didn't like o's answers to gkrieg asking about the hammer.

God it's like reading 15 pages is hard or something

[gkrieg13]

He responded with this.

Well, haddock wasn't scum in all likelihood. So.

And then I said I hate robz answers but that I also didn't like o's answers to gkrieg asking about the hammer.

God it's like reading 15 pages is hard or something

Oh come on.  I was on my phone and quickly responding to what you had said.  You were just saying that you hadn't found Robz scummy, and I was pointing out that at least the day of the hammer, it didn't sound like you were going to hammer O, but that you were going to hammer Robz.

[mcmcsalot]

Bottom line neither did anything to make me think they were townie, and neither were really all that scummy.

No one can explain to me why ta isn't a good lynch. Even without the potential of a haddock partner(which is stupid to ignore but whatever) he also proposed a plan that I thought would harm the one way I now think I can scumhunt in this game and I think he's now potential partner with O, and  I think he could be partners with roadrunner.

[gkrieg13]

Bottom line neither did anything to make me think they were townie, and neither were really all that scummy.

No one can explain to me why ta isn't a good lynch. Even without the potential of a haddock partner(which is stupid to ignore but whatever) he also proposed a plan that I thought would harm the one way I now think I can scumhunt in this game and I think he's now potential partner with O, and  I think he could be partners with roadrunner.

I don't think the plan thing is a very good argument, and the other arguments are that he could be partners with other people. 

I'm not ignoring the fact that he could be partners with people, just that they aren't really the best reasons.

Also I want to lynch TA, but I want to lynch you first.  I guess reversing the order would be fine, but I think you will be harder to lynch, so I want to do that first.

I want the final four people to be me, Awaclus, Robz, RR.  Then want to lynch Robz, then want to lynch RR.

[mcmcsalot]

He responded with this.

Well, haddock wasn't scum in all likelihood. So.

And then I said I hate robz answers but that I also didn't like o's answers to gkrieg asking about the hammer.

God it's like reading 15 pages is hard or something

Oh come on.  I was on my phone and quickly responding to what you had said.  You were just saying that you hadn't found Robz scummy, and I was pointing out that at least the day of the hammer, it didn't sound like you were going to hammer O, but that you were going to hammer Robz.

So me asking robz a question apparently sounds like I am going to hammer him. I mean I see what you are saying. I definitely went back and forth in my head on who I was going to hammer a few times. I didn't want to lynch either of them.

It's frustrating no one cares about my ta case.

[mcmcsalot]

Bottom line neither did anything to make me think they were townie, and neither were really all that scummy.

No one can explain to me why ta isn't a good lynch. Even without the potential of a haddock partner(which is stupid to ignore but whatever) he also proposed a plan that I thought would harm the one way I now think I can scumhunt in this game and I think he's now potential partner with O, and  I think he could be partners with roadrunner.

I don't think the plan thing is a very good argument, and the other arguments are that he could be partners with other people. 

I'm not ignoring the fact that he could be partners with people, just that they aren't really the best reasons.

Also I want to lynch TA, but I want to lynch you first.  I guess reversing the order would be fine, but I think you will be harder to lynch, so I want to do that first.

I want the final four people to be me, Awaclus, Robz, RR.  Then want to lynch Robz, then want to lynch RR.

This is funny, I want it to be me/awaclus/you/robz then I want to lynch robz then you. So I guess god speed if you get me lynched. And I hope your town

[mcmcsalot]

I think ta was right that gkrieg/robz is a potential partnership. I guess obviously gkrieg feels the same about me/robz. This is actually quite comical I truly hope we are both town.

[mcmcsalot]

Pre robz wagon stuff

Vote Count 2.2

O (2): Awaclus, Robz888
Roadrunner7671 (2): gkrieg13, Twistedarcher
Not voting (3): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, O

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

Ta why are you voting rr again?

Never answers this.
Then gkrieg puts O to l-1
And ta asks roadrunner and o why they aren't voting for eachother.
They both say they find eachother towny and ta moves to start the robz wagon.

I guess that's not as indicative of potential rr/ta stuff. Ta seems to scum read rr but I don't think ever put rr in a dangerous position.

Ta would you lynch rr today?

[Robz888]

vote: mcmcsalot

It occurs to me I am being suckered yet again by him.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: mcmcsalot

It occurs to me I am being suckered yet again by him.

Whose my partner?

[LaLight]

schadd is modding this game instead of me, effective immediately

[schadd]

hi

[Roadrunner7671]

I still don't understand why Mcmcsalot is so towny. Right now I'm only towny on Awaclus and maybe TA. I don't think Robz and mcmcsalot are of the same alignment.

[Robz888]

vote: mcmcsalot

It occurs to me I am being suckered yet again by him.

Whose my partner?

Gkrieg, TA, or RR.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: mcmcsalot

It occurs to me I am being suckered yet again by him.

Whose my partner?

Gkrieg, TA, or RR.

But I want to lynch TA followed by Roadrunner

[mcmcsalot]

I still don't understand why Mcmcsalot is so towny. Right now I'm only towny on Awaclus and maybe TA. I don't think Robz and mcmcsalot are of the same alignment.

Why the TA townread?

[Roadrunner7671]

I still don't understand why Mcmcsalot is so towny. Right now I'm only towny on Awaclus and maybe TA. I don't think Robz and mcmcsalot are of the same alignment.

Why the TA townread?

He hasn't had partner-y interactions with O or Haddock, and if they were both town we're already pretty much dead.

[Twistedarcher]

I still don't understand why Mcmcsalot is so towny. Right now I'm only towny on Awaclus and maybe TA. I don't think Robz and mcmcsalot are of the same alignment.

Why the TA townread?

He hasn't had partner-y interactions with O or Haddock, and if they were both town we're already pretty much dead.

It's funny, because I think everything in this statement is wrong. I think they're both town, we're not dead, but I didn't vote for either one, so I don't know what more partner-y interactions you would want...

But you have the rigth conclusion!

[Twistedarcher]

Still have no idea about this game. I have a hunch about who is scum, and Iw ant to lynch them, but I have absolutely no idea how to convince anyone my hunch is better than their hunch. There's no evidence that I can prove, since we have no flips.

[mcmcsalot]

Yea I mean, I'll lynch roadrunner before ta if people would rather that.

His explaination of his townread of ta is suuper scummy. As I have said, I think he very well could be a partner with ta based. He has to find ta towny but doesn't have a good reason.

[Robz888]

I'm pretty convinced mcmc is scum now. Him town-reading me is such a scum tell for him.

[mcmcsalot]

I'm pretty convinced mcmc is scum now. Him town-reading me is such a scum tell for him.

but i want to lynch you after ta and roadrunner.

[Robz888]

I'm pretty convinced mcmc is scum now. Him town-reading me is such a scum tell for him.

but i want to lynch you after ta and roadrunner.

You saved me over O.

[Twistedarcher]

I'm pretty convinced mcmc is scum now. Him town-reading me is such a scum tell for him.

Why is this only happening now, he's been townreading you all game

[Robz888]

I just realized what it meant

[Awaclus]

Vote: mcmc

[Awaclus]

I think that's L-1.

[Twistedarcher]

Don't really want to be voting Mcmc when the people on wagon are Robz, Gkrieg, and Awaclus. If Mcmc is scum I think one of these people would be his partner so it's less likely he's scum.

[Twistedarcher]

@Awaclus would you be willing to vote Gkrieg? Sorry if I missed this, didn't see an opinion in a brief scan of the thread.

Don't think Robz would get through. Don't think Awaclus would get through because Gkrieg is townreading Awaclus, so there's not 4 votes there. So if I'm looking for an alternative wagon that all 4 town members could get on, maybe scum would be Robz/Gkrieg and we can lynch Gkrieg?

[Twistedarcher]

Only way the Mcmc wagon is clean in my eyes is if the team is Mcmc/RR, and that's unlikely to me.

[Roadrunner7671]

Only way the Mcmc wagon is clean in my eyes is if the team is Mcmc/RR, and that's unlikely to me.

It's not, so I guess mcmc can't be scum.

Can we look at Robz maybe?

[Awaclus]

Don't think Awaclus would get through because Gkrieg is townreading Awaclus, so there's not 4 votes there.

1) How do you know we still have 2 scum alive?
2) How do you know gkrieg isn't my partner?

Vote: Twistedarcher

[Robz888]

I'm calling a mcmc / TA scum team.

[Robz888]

We should lynch mcmc, then TA.

[Twistedarcher]

Don't think Awaclus would get through because Gkrieg is townreading Awaclus, so there's not 4 votes there.

1) How do you know we still have 2 scum alive?
2) How do you know gkrieg isn't my partner?

Vote: Twistedarcher

I don't know it, but I've been very clearly saying that I think Haddock and O were both town, and am basing my analysis on this. Please don't give me any of your "HE SAID THERE'S TWO MAFIA ALIVE CLEARLY HE'S SCUM SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP" crap.

[Twistedarcher]

Seriosuly, you call these every game, you're wrong a lot of the time, and you STILL keep calling them.

[Awaclus]

Please don't give me any of your "HE SAID THERE'S TWO MAFIA ALIVE CLEARLY HE'S SCUM SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP SCUMSLIP" crap.

I guess it would be convenient for you and your partner if I didn't.

Seriosuly, you call these every game, you're wrong a lot of the time, and you STILL keep calling them.

Except I'm not wrong a lot of the time and on the rare occasions when I was wrong, town lost anyway and it did because of townies making wrongful assumptions based on non-information and treating them as though they were facts, not because of me calling them scum for it.

[Twistedarcher]

Okay. If I'm town, and Haddock and O are town, can I quote this at you every time you try to make a scumslip argument again?

[Awaclus]

Okay. If I'm town, and Haddock and O are town, can I quote this at you every time you try to make a scumslip argument again?

You can quote this at me every time I make a scumslip argument regardless of anyone's alignments. That's irrelevant though because you and O are probably not town.

[Awaclus]

Is there any reason why I should think that you are town? Questioning my proven-to-work-really-well playstyle isn't really a very convincing argument as far as I'm concerned.

[gkrieg13]

Why isn't mcmcsalot lynched yet?

Can we just lynch TA next after mcmcsalot?

[gkrieg13]

Only way the Mcmc wagon is clean in my eyes is if the team is Mcmc/RR, and that's unlikely to me.

It's not, so I guess mcmc can't be scum.

Can we look at Robz maybe?

You realize the other alternative is if TA/mcmc is the team, and you can't tell me that isn't possible.

Who do you want to lynch?

I'll also point out that the mcmc lynch is a good one because it has stalled at three. Any town wagon will be much easier to get through right now than a scum wagon.

[Roadrunner7671]

Only way the Mcmc wagon is clean in my eyes is if the team is Mcmc/RR, and that's unlikely to me.

It's not, so I guess mcmc can't be scum.

Can we look at Robz maybe?

You realize the other alternative is if TA/mcmc is the team, and you can't tell me that isn't possible.

Who do you want to lynch?

I'll also point out that the mcmc lynch is a good one because it has stalled at three. Any town wagon will be much easier to get through right now than a scum wagon.

I want to lynch one of mcmc and Robz, but I'm going back and forth as to which one.

[mcmcsalot]

I'm calling a mcmc / TA scum team.

I promise you with 100% certainty the headline for this game isn't going to be "mcmc tries busing for the first time ever, backfires horribly".

[Twistedarcher]

Yeah this is hopeless, none of you are convinced and there will be no evidence to change any of your minds.

[Awaclus]

Why isn't mcmcsalot lynched yet?

Can we just lynch TA next after mcmcsalot?

I guess we can do that.

I'm calling a mcmc / TA scum team.

I promise you with 100% certainty the headline for this game isn't going to be "mcmc tries busing for the first time ever, backfires horribly".

So you're saying it won't backfire horribly?

[Twistedarcher]

Really don't know what I can do

[Awaclus]

Really don't know what I can do

You can vote for mcmc.

[Awaclus]

Or yourself, for that matter.

[Twistedarcher]

Want to vote: Robz
will vote: gkrieg, awaclus, mcmc
won't vote: RR

everyone should do one of these

[Awaclus]

Want to vote: Robz
will vote: gkrieg, awaclus, mcmc
won't vote: RR

everyone should do one of these

I also don't think you should be very vocal about your townreads in this game. Scum will just keep you around if they know you won't vote for them.

[mcmcsalot]

Post count.

Gkrieg: 93
Mcmc: 68
Awaclus: 65
Twistedarcher: 65
Robz: 42
Roadrunner: 35

[Robz888]

Why isn't mcmcsalot lynched yet?

Can we just lynch TA next after mcmcsalot?

We should do this.

[mcmcsalot]

Why isn't mcmcsalot lynched yet?

Can we just lynch TA next after mcmcsalot?

We should do this.

So robz you seriously think in a two man scum team I have been bussing my partner super super hard?

[Robz888]

Why isn't mcmcsalot lynched yet?

Can we just lynch TA next after mcmcsalot?

We should do this.

So robz you seriously think in a two man scum team I have been bussing my partner super super hard?

You have not been busing TA super hard. TA is still alive! You have not lynched TA!

[mcmcsalot]

Why isn't mcmcsalot lynched yet?

Can we just lynch TA next after mcmcsalot?

We should do this.

So robz you seriously think in a two man scum team I have been bussing my partner super super hard?

You have not been busing TA super hard. TA is still alive! You have not lynched TA!

Because the other six people refused to move off of yourself and O respectively. And I'm trying to get people to lynch him now. You have all the sudden got this "theory" I am playing you and are no advocating for my lynch but you still agree with my case on TA and want to lynch him after me. How does that make any sense. Unless you think I've tricked you and that I'm pulling off a huge scum buss plan.

[gkrieg13]

I don't really think that the team is mcmc/TA, but I think they are the two that are most likely to be scum, because of the possible partner interactions they have.

I believe that Awaclus is town, and I believe that Robz/RR isn't the team (although I guess I believe it is less likely that TA/mcmc are the team) so I want to lynch the people that make up possible scum teams, but not on the same team for the next two votes.

So I guess if I think Awaclus is town, and that TA/mcmc are probably not partners, I should want to lynch Robz/RR...

Let me think more about this when I'm not at work.

[mcmcsalot]

Gkrieg what do you think about my case for a ta/rr scum team.

I'm happy to go rr/ta/robz. Then either we've lost because your scum with awaclus or your scum with robz and hopefully I can convince awaclus of that, or we both pull our heads out of our butts and lynch scum!awaclus who has been blinding us.

[Twistedarcher]

Well i don't think he's scum as much as i did earlier today, but this is probably the best lynch today. if he's town i think we lose anyways so might as well lynch him today and hope for the best.

vote: mcmcsalot

still want to lynch robz tomorrow.

[mcmcsalot]

From my perspective, I really don't think Awaclus is scum, which means that I just need to make it to 3-person LYLO with him and we will win, as long as we lynch at least one scum before we are down to 4 people.

If the team was O/RR, then we already got one of them, which means that it is safer to lynch other singles of pairings, instead of trying to lynch the second partner.

So I think I want to lynch Robz today, and then maybe TA tomorrow?  The main thing with TA is just me being paranoid and remembering him when he was scum in my very first game.  I would also consider putting mcmcsalot in Robz's place, because I could see him being scum with someone other than Robz more than I see Robz being scum with someone other than mcmc (considering I think Awaclus is town, so the only other person to not be on the Robz wagon was mcmcsalot.

So I guess I want to lynch mcmcsalot more actually.

So I propose we lynch mcmcsalot and then TA and see what happens.

vote: mcmcsalot

vote: mcmcsalot

It occurs to me I am being suckered yet again by him.

Vote: mcmc

Well i don't think he's scum as much as i did earlier today, but this is probably the best lynch today. if he's town i think we lose anyways so might as well lynch him today and hope for the best.

vote: mcmcsalot

still want to lynch robz tomorrow.

awesome wagon lots of analysis guys i'm definitely town

[mcmcsalot]

Now I've got no clue what you all should do because you will know I'm not scum with Haddock, or O, I don't see how anyone could think i'm scum with TA and I don't think me and roadrunner have any partner indications.

I see from ta's perspective y'all should lynch robz and gkrieg though one of them would have to have bussed me here so that's crappy. I was really hoping town would have been smart and realized based on partner potential we needed to lynch ta/rr and robz/gkrieg. I would have to just have faith in gkrieg and go for ta/rr/robz

[mcmcsalot]

Don't really want to be voting Mcmc when the people on wagon are Robz, Gkrieg, and Awaclus. If Mcmc is scum I think one of these people would be his partner so it's less likely he's scum.

Only way the Mcmc wagon is clean in my eyes is if the team is Mcmc/RR, and that's unlikely to me.

You really had it here, I was willing to lynch rr and obviously any of robz/gkrieg/awaclus over myself.

[mcmcsalot]

I guess the way TA has played today has me more convinced the scum team is robz/rr or robz/gkrieg but I still think ta/rr and ta/haddock are good possibilities as are ta/O, rr/o. Time to look at wagons.

From my town perspective

Vote Count 1.final

gkrieg13 (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock (5): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13, O
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Not voting (0):

Haddock/(Awaclus, Twistedarcher)
Roadruner/Robz/Gkrieg/O
No Awaclus/Twistedarcher

Vote Count 2.final

O (4): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Robz888, mcmcsalot
Robz888 (3): Twistedarcher, O, Roadrunner7671
Not voting (0):

O/(Twistedarcher, Roadrunner)
Awaclus/Gkrieg/Robz
No Roadrunner/Robz

Vote Count 3.2

Twistedarcher (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Roadrunner7671 (1): Awaclus
mcmcsalot (1): gkrieg13, Robz888, Awaclus, TwistedArcher
Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends Saturday, June 17 at 1am FT.

Gkrieg/Robz/Awaclus/Twistedarcher
No Roadrunner/TA(this suprises me but I highly doubt all three other townies voted me before either scum did)

[Twistedarcher]

I thought that was the hammer, but I guess it wasn't actually since Awaclus switched his vote, oops.

[Twistedarcher]

Don't really want to be voting Mcmc when the people on wagon are Robz, Gkrieg, and Awaclus. If Mcmc is scum I think one of these people would be his partner so it's less likely he's scum.

Only way the Mcmc wagon is clean in my eyes is if the team is Mcmc/RR, and that's unlikely to me.

You really had it here, I was willing to lynch rr and obviously any of robz/gkrieg/awaclus over myself.

I don't want to lynch RR, I'd rather lynch Robz and maybe gkrieg/awaclus but I don't think the votes for any of those are happening, we need 4 votes and it's just not happening today.

[Twistedarcher]

Seeing as Awaclus/Gkrieg/Robz seemingly won't break, and I think most likely there's 2 scum and 1 town in there, but if the one town member refuses to switch, it's game over. Since they seemingly won't switch, I have to lynch Mcmc and hope he's scum, since I don't think RR is scum. But I don't see a path to victory here honestly

[gkrieg13]

We need Roadrunner to at least post something today...

[mcmcsalot]

Wait really! I though I counted

[mcmcsalot]

Don't think Awaclus would get through because Gkrieg is townreading Awaclus, so there's not 4 votes there.

1) How do you know we still have 2 scum alive?
2) How do you know gkrieg isn't my partner?

Vote: Twistedarcher

REPRIEVE!

[Twistedarcher]

Yeah I was confused when it didn't go thru, thought the mods just might have not been on, but you weren't actually lynched. But I don't know what other lynch gets through today besides that.

[Awaclus]

I could hammer but I think I'll wait for now since there's no need to hurry.

[mcmcsalot]

Yeah I was confused when it didn't go thru, thought the mods just might have not been on, but you weren't actually lynched. But I don't know what other lynch gets through today besides that.

after my wagon analysis and theories I would lynch rr or robz

[gkrieg13]

I really want something from RR.  He hasn't voted today, and all of his posts have something different in them.  It is very hard to follow his thought process at all.
request prod on RR

[Roadrunner7671]

It is hard to follow my thought process, isn't it? That way scum doesn't know what to think!

[Roadrunner7671]

But I still agree with RR from a day ago, let's lynch Robz or mcmcsalot.

[gkrieg13]

But I still agree with RR from a day ago, let's lynch Robz or mcmcsalot.

Do you have any idea how you are voting and how others are voting?

[Roadrunner7671]

But I still agree with RR from a day ago, let's lynch Robz or mcmcsalot.

Do you have any idea how you are voting and how others are voting?

Nope, votes are arbitrary

[Twistedarcher]

I don't understand why everyone doesn't share information because they're afraid of scum manipulation. It just allows scum to also hide their information, remain in the shadows, and it confuses town members.

More information is GOOD for town, not bad, guys!

[schadd]

Vote Count 3.3

Twistedarcher (2): mcmcsalot, Awaclus
mcmcsalot (3): gkrieg13, Robz888, Twistedarcher

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends Saturday, June 17 at 1am FT.

[Twistedarcher]

Going to be disappointed when we lose to scum Robz who got away with posting literally zero content this game.

[Robz888]

If I was scum I would post content though.

[Roadrunner7671]

Intent to hammer

[Awaclus]

Intent to hammer

Hold on a sec. Is literally everyone in the game aside from mcmc himself willing to lynch him today?

[Awaclus]

Because if that's true, then either

1) mcmc was partners with O or Haddock
2) someone is bussing
3) mcmc is town

[Awaclus]

Actually mcmc/O is super possible and 2) could be true. Vote: mcmc

[mcmcsalot]

Because if that's true, then either

1) mcmc was partners with O or Haddock
2) someone is bussing
3) mcmc is town

Yes! You were voting me, TA is now voting me, robz/gkrieg have been pushing my lynch, rr now has stated intent to hammer.

1) I hammered O over robz, it's very unlikely we are possible partners just from how long I had the opportunity to lynch both. I don't think I am a likely partner with haddock either based on how I contributed to his day one lynch.
2) I guess I can see theories for robz bussing me here because he was pushing ta with me earlier but once that wagon didn't get picked up robz flipped on me. I think Ta/me and rr/me are very unlikely partners. I don't know why gkrieg or awaclus would bus me here instead of voting ta with me/robz if we were partners. It hasn't seemed like gkrieg or awaclus were close to being lynched anytime soon so they wouldn't be paranoid me and one of them were about to be lynched.
3) This is the actual scenario, I am town.

[mcmcsalot]

Actually mcmc/O is super possible and 2) could be true. Vote: mcmc

Why would I have hammered O over robz then??!!!!

[Awaclus]

Actually mcmc/O is super possible and 2) could be true. Vote: mcmc

Why would I have hammered O over robz then??!!!!

So that you could ask this question.

[mcmcsalot]

thanks for giving me an extra 12 hours to live awaclus but ugh. All town has stated intent to lynch me even though I have pointed out repeatedly that I'm an unlikely partner compared to so many of he other people in this game.

ALSO I DONT BUSS I THINK ITS A STUPID HORRIBLE PLAN THAT ONLY WORKS FOR SCUM BECAUSE THEY GET LUCKY. Correct scum play is just don't get lynched.

Town is stupid they vote for town ALL THE TIME, like right now. When town is so busy lookin for stupid scumslips and suggesting random lynches all scum has to do is wait for a couple confused townies and then bam game over flawless scum win.

[mcmcsalot]

Actually mcmc/O is super possible and 2) could be true. Vote: mcmc

Why would I have hammered O over robz then??!!!!

So that you could ask this question.

And lose? If I am partners with O and robz and o were both at l-1. There are two scenarios, 1) i lynch robz and me/O need to get two more mislynches, say we fail and o gets lynched I am then left with mcmc/gkrieg/ta/awaclus/rr and need three mislynches. 2) I lynch o and then am left with me/robz/ta/rr/awaclus/gkrieg and need 4 mislynches! Even if o got lynched the next day it's not like I would have been super suspected as o's partner and I would be in a way better position.

[Awaclus]

And lose?

Well, hopefully yes, but I guess that's not the case unless you're just trolling now.

[mcmcsalot]

If I was O's partner lynching robz puts town at 4 and mafia at 2 with 4 needed for a lynch.

It would mean all town members would HAVE to vote together if me and O refused to vote eachother which isn't scummy as tons of people are refusing to vote other people. Instead you think I would ever take out my partner and leave myself as 1 mafia against 5 town where I have to convince 3 townies(a majority) to vote against one of there own. It's a statistically garbage move for me to make if o is my partner.

[mcmcsalot]

And lose?

Well, hopefully yes, but I guess that's not the case unless you're just trolling now.

Not trolling. Not the case

[mcmcsalot]

I guess the way TA has played today has me more convinced the scum team is robz/rr or robz/gkrieg but I still think ta/rr and ta/haddock are good possibilities as are ta/O, rr/o. Time to look at wagons.

From my town perspective

Vote Count 1.final

gkrieg13 (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock (5): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13, O
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Not voting (0):

Haddock/(Awaclus, Twistedarcher)
Roadruner/Robz/Gkrieg/O
No Awaclus/Twistedarcher

Vote Count 2.final

O (4): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Robz888, mcmcsalot
Robz888 (3): Twistedarcher, O, Roadrunner7671
Not voting (0):

O/(Twistedarcher, Roadrunner)
Awaclus/Gkrieg/Robz
No Roadrunner/Robz

Vote Count 3.2

Twistedarcher (2): mcmcsalot, Robz888
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Roadrunner7671 (1): Awaclus
mcmcsalot (1): gkrieg13, Robz888, Awaclus, TwistedArcher
Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends Saturday, June 17 at 1am FT.

Gkrieg/Robz/Awaclus/Twistedarcher
No Roadrunner/TA(this suprises me but I highly doubt all three other townies voted me before either scum did)

Reposting my analysis from last time I thought I was lynched maybe START LOOKING AT WAGON AND POSSIBLE PARTNERS and play the stats game.

[mcmcsalot]

Good job to scum this game, town has put in really little effort to actually analyze things.

[mcmcsalot]

ugh not often you get to know all the town is completely wrong.

[Twistedarcher]

Still thinking we have zero scum lynched and it's 2 of Robz/Gkrieg/Awaclus.

I don't think Mcmc was town, but it was looking like me or him, so eh. His interactions with Robz were weird and Mcmc/Robz is still a possibility. I want to lynch Robz tomorrow. I think Robz is Mcmc's most likely partner, Gkrieg's most likely partner, and Awaclus' most likely partner.

[Twistedarcher]

I don't think Mcmc was scum***

[Twistedarcher]

Still town-reading RR, it's possible he's scum I guess, but I don't think so.

[Twistedarcher]

If I was scum I would post content though.

I think you'd be trying more as town. i think you want to win as scum without saying basically anything. I guarantee you've said this exact thing in your scum QT. Your bumping the thread when you hadn't posted anything was a brazen attempt at this. I think you want to show us up after the game how you were able to get away without doing anything.

[mcmcsalot]

Post count.

Gkrieg: 93
Mcmc: 68
Awaclus: 65
Twistedarcher: 65
Robz: 42
Roadrunner: 35

Ta I think you might be finding rr townie because of this. He's just not doing anything.

[Twistedarcher]

Main reason I'm finding RR towny is the D2 final wagon. I really think Robz is scum, and because of RR voting him D2, it follows that I really think RR is town.

[Twistedarcher]

I don't think scum busses this game, especially early on. They might tomorrow, but I don't think they would especially D1 or D2. It's tough to get town cred points for being on a scum lynch when people don't actually know it's a scum lynch, so scum doesn't risk it.

[Twistedarcher]

Want to vote: Robz
will vote: gkrieg, awaclus, mcmc
won't vote: RR

everyone should do one of these

Still no one has done it? Is F.DS meta these days really to not post information that you're accountable? Because that sucks guys, no wonder scum always wins here now.

[mcmcsalot]

Main reason I'm finding RR towny is the D2 final wagon. I really think Robz is scum, and because of RR voting him D2, it follows that I really think RR is town.

Yea I guess if your town you gotta go for robz/gkrieg/awaclus. Then when we lose to rr/haddock I'm going to laugh my butt off.

[Twistedarcher]

Main reason I'm finding RR towny is the D2 final wagon. I really think Robz is scum, and because of RR voting him D2, it follows that I really think RR is town.

Yea I guess if your town you gotta go for robz/gkrieg/awaclus. Then when we lose to rr/haddock I'm going to laugh my butt off.

Haha if that happens I'll be so disappointed, but I don't think that's the case I just don't think we lynched scum D1 with me being off wagon. There's no way

[mcmcsalot]

Want to vote: Robz
will vote: gkrieg, awaclus, mcmc
won't vote: RR

everyone should do one of these

Still no one has done it? Is F.DS meta these days really to not post information that you're accountable? Because that sucks guys, no wonder scum always wins here now.

I do see that in this game specifically a full list like this let's scum know which townies to go to the end with. For example if me and you are both town, I didn't want to do this because I didn't want say an awaclus/robz scum team to know which one of us would take one of them all the way to the end.

This is why I think you've got to watch out for rr who also can't explain why he finds you townie but wouldn't lynch you(possibly because he knows you won't lynch him). So I don't think it's terrible to conceal all reads in this game.

[mcmcsalot]

Main reason I'm finding RR towny is the D2 final wagon. I really think Robz is scum, and because of RR voting him D2, it follows that I really think RR is town.

Yea I guess if your town you gotta go for robz/gkrieg/awaclus. Then when we lose to rr/haddock I'm going to laugh my butt off.

Haha if that happens I'll be so disappointed, but I don't think that's the case I just don't think we lynched scum D1 with me being off wagon. There's no way

Yea which is why you being scum made sense to me. But awaclus was also off wagon, and the wagon shot up to a lynch really quick. Something gkrie found scummy from O and is now lynching
me for not hammering robz. Which is scummy from him.

[schadd]

Vote Count 3.final

Twistedarcher (1): mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (4): gkrieg13, Robz888, Twistedarcher, Awaclus

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 6 alive it took 4 to lynch.


mcmcsalot was lynched.

Day 4 starts now and ends Friday, June 23 at 12pm forum time.

[schadd]

Vote Count 4.0

Not voting (5): Robz888, Awaclus, Twistedarcher, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

[Robz888]

Hmmm.

[gkrieg13]

I think I want to lynch TA or Robz today.  I'll definitely go back and reread at this point.  I may also put together a compilation of who voted where.

[Robz888]

Awaclus is pretty off the table for me, but that's all.

[Twistedarcher]

Vote: Robz

[Twistedarcher]

Robz-Gkrieg still my best bet

[Robz888]

So either TA is scum, or scum can quick lynch, or scum was mcmc, O, or Haddock.

[Twistedarcher]

Awaclus is pretty off the table for me, but that's all.

Why? You mentioned yesterday that you didn't want to lynch him, and now he's off the table. But why?

[Twistedarcher]

Awaclus, I'm thinking this is scum Robz and scum Gkrieg both townreading you to get you on their side for the final lynch. They just need one town member on their side to try to make them win, and they're banking on it being you.

If you're town, and Robz is town, why on earth would Robz be townreading you? Don't you think he'd be super suspicious of you?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus, I'm thinking this is scum Robz and scum Gkrieg both townreading you to get you on their side for the final lynch.

That's what I'm worried about, but aren't you doing the same thing here?

[Awaclus]

I actually want to lynch RR today, but TA is fine too.

[Awaclus]

Vote: RR

[Twistedarcher]

Awaclus, I'm thinking this is scum Robz and scum Gkrieg both townreading you to get you on their side for the final lynch.

That's what I'm worried about, but aren't you doing the same thing here?

True, but I know I'm town!

[Roadrunner7671]

RR is a terrible lynch.

[Robz888]

I'm going to stick to my guns. Vote: TwistedArcher

[gkrieg13]

Confirm not participating in quick hammer. Probably means we only have one scum ledt

[Roadrunner7671]

Neither am I. No quick hammers here.

[Roadrunner7671]

So gkrieg/RR is not a possible scum team. Glad we know that now.

[Robz888]

Okay. That's good.

[gkrieg13]

So gkrieg/RR is not a possible scum team. Glad we know that now.

Well not only that, we can narrow down a bunch more considering scum have daychat, and they can switch their votes.  Now the team can't be anything but Robz/RR or TA/RR I think.

[gkrieg13]

Robz is voting for TA
TA is voting for Robz
Awaclus is voting for RR

So for TA to get 3 votes, he can be quickhammered by Awaclus, gkrieg and RR.  So the team can't be Awaclus/gkrieg, Awaclus/RR, or gkrieg/RR

For Robz to get 3 votes, he can be quickhammered by the same 3

For RR to get 3 votes, he can be quickhammered by gkrieg, TA, or Robz.  So the team can't be gkrieg/TA, TA/Robz, or gkrieg/Robz.

[gkrieg13]

With 5 alive, there are 10 possible pairings, so what is left...

Robz/RR, TA/RR, Awaclus/TA, Awaclus/Robz

[gkrieg13]

But, that is only if one scum isn't already dead.

[gkrieg13]

Also means that I can't possibly be on a team with anyone left alive!

[Robz888]

But probably one scum is already dead, right?

[gkrieg13]

But probably one scum is already dead, right?

Yes, but my theory is that we should be lynching someone today that is a partner with someone who is still alive, just in case both scum are still alive.  Then at that point 2 townies just have to townread each other and we have won the game.

[Awaclus]

I'll also confirm not qh.

[gkrieg13]

So really we can just look at the possible partner pairings and lynch the person that is common among the two most likely pairings.

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 1.2

gkrieg13 (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock (1): Roadrunner7671
Roadrunner7671 (3): mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13
Robz888 (1): O
Not voting (1): Twistedarcher

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, 3rd of June at 1am FT.

Vote Count 1.final

gkrieg13 (2): Awaclus, Haddock
Haddock (5): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, Robz888, gkrieg13, O
Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Not voting (0):

With 8 alive it took 5 to lynch.

Haddock was lynched.

D2 starts now and ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

Vote Count 2.2

O (2): Awaclus, Robz888
Roadrunner7671 (2): gkrieg13, Twistedarcher
Not voting (3): Roadrunner7671, mcmcsalot, O

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

Vote Count 2.3

O (3): Awaclus, Robz888, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Robz888 (2): Twistedarcher, O
Twistedarcher (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting (0):

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

Vote Count 2.4

O (3): Awaclus, Robz888, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Robz888 (2): Twistedarcher, O
Twistedarcher (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting (0):

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

Vote Count 2.5

O (2): Awaclus, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (1): Robz888
Robz888 (3): Twistedarcher, O, Roadrunner7671
Twistedarcher (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting (0):

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

Vote Count 2.6

O (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Robz888
Robz888 (3): Twistedarcher, O, Roadrunner7671
Twistedarcher (1): mcmcsalot
Not voting (0):

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. D2 ends Wednesday, June 7 at 6am FT.

Vote Count 3.3

Twistedarcher (2): mcmcsalot, Awaclus
mcmcsalot (3): gkrieg13, Robz888, Twistedarcher

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 ends Saturday, June 17 at 1am FT.

[gkrieg13]

Robz/RR - Robz votes for RR early, RR votes for Robz D2 and stays on his wagon.  Doesn't really look partnery.

TA/RR - TA votes for RR early D2, but as I recall from that point on refuses to vote for him, and it is reciprocated.

Awaclus/TA - D3 Awaclus votes for TA, but other than that, they could be partners.

Awaclus/Robz - Awaclus doesn't hammer Robz when he has the chance, so this is also possible.

So to rate them off of looking at vote counts (likely to unlikely)
Awaclus/Robz>TA/RR>Awaclus/TA>Robz/RR

[gkrieg13]

Makes me want to lynch TA

[schadd]

Vote Count 4.1

Robz888 1): Twistedarcher
Roadrunner7671 (1): Awaclus
Twistedarcher (1): Robz888

Not voting (5): Robz888, Awaclus, Twistedarcher, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 4 ends Friday, June 23 at 12pm forum time.

[Awaclus]

Makes me want to lynch TA

Why not me?

[gkrieg13]

Makes me want to lynch TA

Why not me?

Well I still think you're town

[Twistedarcher]

Wait, so looking at that, Gkrieg's only partner is someone who's dead? So we shouldn't lynch him today?

[Twistedarcher]

D1 final wagon should prove to you all that TA/Awaclus is incredibly unlikely.

[Twistedarcher]

Agree that Robz/RR is unlikely. If there's two alive, Robz/Awaclus is my best guess. If there's one alive, Robz/Mcmc maybe? Still wanting to lynch Robz.

[gkrieg13]

Wait, so looking at that, Gkrieg's only partner is someone who's dead? So we shouldn't lynch him today?

Yes, this is true.

[gkrieg13]

Ya, I think I want to lynch either Robz, or TA.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm assuming that there's one scum alive. I think mcmcsalot was scum. I think Robz is an unlikely but possible partner

[gkrieg13]

I'm assuming that there's one scum alive. I think mcmcsalot was scum. I think Robz is an unlikely but possible partner

Why is Robz not a good mcmcsalot partner?

[Robz888]

I think I'm happy with my vote.

I don't know if I look like a good mcmcsalot partner or not. I think probably not?

[gkrieg13]

I think I'm happy with my vote.

I don't know if I look like a good mcmcsalot partner or not. I think probably not?

Well I mean I really thought he was going to hammer you, and was surprised when he hammered O instead.

[Robz888]

I think I'm happy with my vote.

I don't know if I look like a good mcmcsalot partner or not. I think probably not?

Well I mean I really thought he was going to hammer you, and was surprised when he hammered O instead.

Sure. I think I bussed him in a really goofy and ineffective way, though, if he was my partner.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm assuming that there's one scum alive. I think mcmcsalot was scum. I think Robz is an unlikely but possible partner

Why is Robz not a good mcmcsalot partner?

Their interactions/'bussing' would be amazing if it was faked. The fact that they're both amazing players is keeping Robz in the pool though.

[Robz888]

I'm assuming that there's one scum alive. I think mcmcsalot was scum. I think Robz is an unlikely but possible partner

Why is Robz not a good mcmcsalot partner?

Their interactions/'bussing' would be amazing if it was faked. The fact that they're both amazing players is keeping Robz in the pool though.

Fair enough. From your perspectives, I don't think it's impossible at all, just pretty unlikely.

[Awaclus]

I think mcmcsalot was scum.

Are you sure about that? He wasn't O's partner (evidently), so someone had to be willing to bus and you're the most likely candidate for that since you're the only one who didn't actually vote for him.

[Twistedarcher]

Mcmc lynching Robz over O despite having stated strong town reads on O, and not having said much about Robz, definitely points to Mcmc/Robz.

[Twistedarcher]

I think mcmcsalot was scum.

Are you sure about that? He wasn't O's partner (evidently), so someone had to be willing to bus and you're the most likely candidate for that since you're the only one who didn't actually vote for him.

I don't follow this, can you explain?

[Awaclus]

I don't follow this, can you explain?

I already did yesterday.

Hold on a sec. Is literally everyone in the game aside from mcmc himself willing to lynch him today?

Because if that's true, then either

1) mcmc was partners with O or Haddock
2) someone is bussing
3) mcmc is town

[gkrieg13]

Awaclus, which of Robz/TA would you rather lynch today?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus, which of Robz/TA would you rather lynch today?

It's hard to say. I'd most rather lynch RR, but I guess if that doesn't happen I can lynch whoever you vote for.

[gkrieg13]

vote: TA

[Awaclus]

Intent to hammer if there's nothing else we're waiting on.

[Awaclus]

vote: TA
[/quote

Intentional quotefail because it's easier to do on phone.

[Awaclus]

uote author=gkrieg13 link=topic=17247.msg701585#msg701585 date=1497881778]
vote: TA
[/quote]

I failed the fail

[gkrieg13]

Well that definitely wasn't a quickhammer, so either TA is part of the team, or we only have one scum left alive.  Feeling pretty good about this.

[Roadrunner7671]

Prodding is not the way

[Roadrunner7671]

Not quickhammering TA btw

[schadd]

Day 4 Final Vote Count

Robz888 (1): Twistedarcher
Twistedarcher (3): Robz888, gkrieg13, Awaclus

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.

ta ded.

[schadd]

Vote Count 5.0

Not voting (4): Robz888, Awaclus, gkrieg13, Roadrunner7671

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 5 starts now and ends Thursday, June 29.

[gkrieg13]

So we know at least one scum is dead.

Also interesting that TA didn't say anything, seeing as twilight was pretty long.

[gkrieg13]

vote: Roadrunner

[Awaclus]

Can we finally lynch RR today?

[gkrieg13]

Can we finally lynch RR today?

Yes.  Hopefully he is the other scum, if not, we get LYLO.

[Awaclus]

I guess I was mostly asking Robz.

[Robz888]

Yeah I think I'm down with RR... not totally sure yet though.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm not scum guys. How about we lynch someone of my choosing today then me tomorrow if I choose wrong?

[Robz888]

I'm not scum guys. How about we lynch someone of my choosing today then me tomorrow if I choose wrong?

What about the other way? Who should we lynch if you are town, in your opinion?

[gkrieg13]

I'm not scum guys. How about we lynch someone of my choosing today then me tomorrow if I choose wrong?

I agree with Robz. It's hard because we can't really know which dead person is scum. As for twilights, I would say TA had the scummiest.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm not scum guys. How about we lynch someone of my choosing today then me tomorrow if I choose wrong?

What about the other way? Who should we lynch if you are town, in your opinion?

Not Awaclus. I think I'd prefer you slightly over gkrieg, which doesn't help me but that's okay.

[schadd]

Vote Count 5.1

Roadrunner7671 (1): gkrieg13

Not voting (3): Robz888, Awaclus, Roadrunner7671

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 5 starts now and ends Thursday, June 29.

[Roadrunner7671]

Prod: Everyone

[schadd]

everyone has been prodded (i'm counting gkrieg because it was like 40min short)

[Roadrunner7671]

everyone has been prodded (i'm counting gkrieg because it was like 40min short)

Today's the 21st.

[schadd]

i agree


robz has an announced vla but it seems that he has been able to do anything ever during said vla

[schadd]

ditto gkrieg

[schadd]

oic lalight did 24 hr prod eligibility

[Awaclus]

Vote: Roadrunner

[gkrieg13]

RR, any last words?

[Robz888]

Sorry, very VLA.

I'm fine with an RR lynch.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry, very VLA.

I'm fine with an RR lynch.

You can hammer then.

[Roadrunner7671]

RR, any last words?

Nah.

[Robz888]

Vote: RoadRunner

[schadd]

Day 5 Final Vote Count

Roadrunner7671 (3): gkrieg13, Awaclus, Robz888

Not voting (1): Roadrunner7671

With 4 alive, it took 3 to lynch.

rr ded

[schadd]

the game...

[schadd]

is...

[schadd]

still going

Vote Count 6.0

not voting (3): Robz888, Awaclus, gkrieg13

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day 6 starts now and ends Sunday, July 2nd at 1pm forum time.

[Robz888]

Huh.

[Awaclus]

This game is weird.

[gkrieg13]

So I guess Robz?

[Robz888]

Yeah I'm leaning gkrieg

[gkrieg13]

vote: Robz

[Robz888]

Awaclus could IC himself by not hammering.

[Awaclus]

That, or I could win by hammering.

Vote: Robz

[schadd]

lel


the wording i expected u to use was "i could do that, or i could just vote: robz"


awaclus and haddock win

[schadd]

iguana astutely pointed out that awaclus is the only one not guaranteed to have bussed if scum

[Roadrunner7671]

Oh darn

[schadd]

TOWN MADE A MISTAKE GUYS

[iguanaiguana]

Yeah there was analysis for Gkrieg/Robz on D6 at least if not any other day.

[iguanaiguana]

Haddock MVP loljk

[schadd]

https://quicktopic.com/52/H/rp2JR3W4ryP2Y spooky
https://quicktopic.com/52/H/7LJAUV3NgwVin maffy (DAYTALK MADE THIS SCUMSIDED DAE)

[schadd]

okay i'm boutta open m103

[Haddock]

Haddock MVP loljk

Hah! Yeah I sucked. I could make excuses about being busy, but no need.

awaclus, you magnificent beast.

[Awaclus]

I was super worried that gkrieg's town read on me was just some extraordinary ploy to trick me into a false sense of security. It seemed way too convenient to be true.

[Robz888]

Well, alright. Grrrrr.

It was an interesting experiment, but I loathe this setup.

[gkrieg13]

Well, alright. Grrrrr.

It was an interesting experiment, but I loathe this setup.

Ya I hate no flips. Also no kills really kills any motivation

[iguanaiguana]

I was super worried that gkrieg's town read on me was just some extraordinary ploy to trick me into a false sense of security. It seemed way too convenient to be true.

I was kinda hoping for this. Would have been pretty epic.

[iguanaiguana]

But yeah pretty clearly not the best setup ever.

[mcmcsalot]

REPRIVE!!!!!!!!!! I was right!

[mcmcsalot]

REPRIVE!!!!!!!!!! I was right!

Blah blah blah, haddock couldn't be scum even though we hammered him, lets never lynch the two people who didn't vote for him...

[iguanaiguana]

I called Awaclus as scum on D1 in the speccy.

[O]

REPRIVE!!!!!!!!!! I was right!

And yet you hammered the guy that hammered your suspected scum..