Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[O]

and now i should go doublecheck who you attempted to vig when roleblocked... not actually 100% on them being town...

IT WAS A TOWNSLIP NOT A SCUMSLIP etc.

[faust]

I find your reasons for shooting PPS unconvincing as I felt him incredibly likely to be town. I disagree that scum!pps would gambit the self lynch. So far you have attempted to vig 3 townies and each time I have felt there were better, scummier looking targets.

So I'm scum because our reads don't match?

My N1 target was sudgy btw, still a decent chance of scum there I think.

I will state that, if nothing else, PPS is the townie that scum wants to die the least.

[O]

So I'm scum because our reads don't match?

Yea pretty much. Our reads don't match and you kept Vigging town members. Seems like fourth most scummy person is an entirely reasonable place to put you, no?

[ashersky]

Confirming no result from my investigation last night.

So how exactly was that information worth holding back? And why do you post, but don't answer my questions?

I'm fairly certain I did answer your questions.

As for holding it back, if Galz claimed to jail someone else, that would give me more information.

How does that depend on who claims first?

If I have a result and he says he jailed me, he's lying.  If I claim I have a result, he won't say he jailed me.

[ashersky]

I will just point out, specifically, the questions left unanswered:

- How are there 3 deaths tonight if I am no vig?
- How did you manage to believe in a Werewolf theory that doesn't hold up to even a couple of seconds of thought and setup reading?
- How was it beneficial for anyone but yourself to not claim your result immediately?
- Who did you (try to) investigate last night?

Ok, let's break this down.

Question #1 -- I don't know how many deaths there will be tonight, as that's the future.  Also, even if you were a vig, you don't have shots, so you are just a VT, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

But let's assume, out of kindness, that you are talking about last night.  Why is anyone at all focused on the number 3?  The question anyone should be asking is why there were 2 deaths last night.

The hider died last night.  There are multiple ways that can happen, but being killed by another player is extremely unlikely.  So, the Hider killed himself.  That's that, and there's no real reason to discuss the "why" of that death.  The SA vs. II thing is important.

So, can we all now agree that the focus needs to stop being on three deaths?

Question #2 -- the WW theory only doesn't hold up because we now know there are no WWs.  When the possibility they existed was still in play, the theory was valid and good.

Question #3 -- ask Jimmmm about this tactic.  You may not have been a mafia player yet when it happened.  Interactions by caught scum when they don't know they are caught can be very revealing.

Question #4 -- Galz.

[faust]

Question #1 -- I don't know how many deaths there will be tonight, as that's the future.  Also, even if you were a vig, you don't have shots, so you are just a VT, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

Clearly I meant the night that has just passed. Stop the bullshit.

[faust]

No third death can happen without me being the vig 

[faust]

Question #2 -- the WW theory only doesn't hold up because we now know there are no WWs.  When the possibility they existed was still in play, the theory was valid and good.

False. As pointed out, I cannot both have won a slot and have been converted to a Werewolf. Only VTs get converted to Werewolf.

[faust]

So I'm scum because our reads don't match?

Yea pretty much. Our reads don't match and you kept Vigging town members. Seems like fourth most scummy person is an entirely reasonable place to put you, no?

I guess I can see that. But I like to think that my vig targets would have ended up being lynched at some point anyway. Cuzz had 8 votes the night before he died, it's not like he was a beacon of townieness.

[SpaceAnemone]

No third death can happen without me being the vig 

Couldn't PPS technically have been poisoned N2?

I believe with great confidence that you're the vig, but I don't necessarily believe that you're town. Your arguments with ash are good evidence for you not being a WW, but we don't need to worry about any third-faction people left in the game anyway, so it's only relevant as far as picking apart ash's earlier arguments goes, and importantly it's not at all relevant for any discussions about why you may or may not be mafia.

[faust]

No third death can happen without me being the vig 

Couldn't PPS technically have been poisoned N2?

I believe with great confidence that you're the vig, but I don't necessarily believe that you're town. Your arguments with ash are good evidence for you not being a WW, but we don't need to worry about any third-faction people left in the game anyway, so it's only relevant as far as picking apart ash's earlier arguments goes, and importantly it's not at all relevant for any discussions about why you may or may not be mafia.

Yes, the WW thing is mostly important because it shows ash to be mafia. I think he prepared a different claim than he was forced to do now.

Inventor is in the same slot as Role Cop though, so that explanation only really works if ashersky is lying scum.

[faust]

Rereading iguana:

- starts out with some fluff. First suspicion is on ashersky for SK hunting.
- townread on Jake
- a little hedginess on TWM, then votes J Reggie
- makes an actual case on J Reggie too.
- later goes after Galzria, which is convenient as it allows him to leave the Reggie wagon
- okay, nevermind, he re-votes. That is also his last D1 post.

So D1 we have a pretty standard play; nothing stands out. Some correct reads, some questionable reads.

- he revives his Galzria case (even though he happily abandoned that in favor of Reggie).
- a reads list. Some notable entries: Town on Awaclus, scum on RR and Dylan, defends ash without calling him towny, scum on Jake & mcmc. The whole insistence on Galzria thing is something I don't like.
- he is trying to create a narrative for scum!mcmc. Uh, not good.
- joins the Cuzz wagon, states he would also vote for me, then votes Andrew (all town)

Okay, D2 looks a lot worse I think.

- on D3, he tries to agrue that there can be no Bus Driver. Well mafia would know that they don't have the role.
- pushes a scum narrative on TWM
- puts some work into orchestrating the mass claim. Easy activity for scum.
- his claim comes pretty late

Some scummy things, but mostly I just don't find any solid evidence that would put iguana in the town camp.

[faust]

Space reread:

- they vote mcmc over TWM and J Reggie, which I guess does not say a lot.
- asks stuff about claiming, which is mildly towny. It is pretty excessive too.
- later joins on the J Reggie wagon. This is also their last post on D1.

Not a lot there yet, but I feel a genuine drive to figure stuff out.

- D2 starts with not a lot of content
- a town read on Jimmmm (good!)
- partly OMGUS vote for Cuzz

And that's that. I think Space really steps up activity on D3, so let's see what's there.

- says that gkrieg was likely high on the draft, which is kinda bad given the N1 kill
- a lot of mass claim enforcement. Not really an alignment tell I think.
- suspects e a fair bit, which is correct, but you know.
- pushes to finish the claiming before ending the day. Pro-town, but easy to fake.
- strongly implies that RR/e are mafia and Calamitas' partners, which scum would know to be untrue. Mild town points.
- they are like, really invested in getting as much info as possible. Towny.

Overall, Space is a lot townier than iguana.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think Space really steps up activity on D3, so let's see what's there.

Just in case anyone else is worried about mcmc's last piece of advice:

I expect people who changed the amount they posted after the hammer hero claim are likely scummy.

-- I just went back to double-check when the HH claim happened, and it's at #1863 in D2, so well before we got to the D3 threshold of me feeling like I had a good plan to win us the game.

Anyone who doubts how genuine I am about the claim stuff should look at RMM37 (Worms), where I was pushing really hard for a very similar claiming strategy, except that the bidding phase happened separately every day. Notably there, e was really dead against the claiming even though he was town and I feel like it lost us that game (faust poked other holes in my play; my opinion of my plan may have been biased), so his initial resistance to the claims here in D3 didn't surprise me at all, so actually I started out giving him the benefit of the doubt a bit.

In contrast, iguana played along reasonably well with the claims plan, which makes me worry that he knew he had a strong fakeclaim lined up. That might tell us something about likely partners in itself, though.

(Ash is the notable other who played along very badly with the claiming exercise. I still want to see him lynched).

[SpaceAnemone]

Faust is definitely the fourth scummiest alive for me.

On the plus side, I am like the eighth towniest! And given that we have 2 ICs, I am almost as towny as I am scummy...

Which specific two ICs are you referring to here?

[faust]

Faust is definitely the fourth scummiest alive for me.

On the plus side, I am like the eighth towniest! And given that we have 2 ICs, I am almost as towny as I am scummy...

Which specific two ICs are you referring to here?

Awaclus and Jimmmm

[ashersky]

Question #2 -- the WW theory only doesn't hold up because we now know there are no WWs.  When the possibility they existed was still in play, the theory was valid and good.

False. As pointed out, I cannot both have won a slot and have been converted to a Werewolf. Only VTs get converted to Werewolf.

This is correct, and I concede the point that my theory appears to not have been right.  I literally didn't know this, because I'm not a WW, nor did I look at WW roles because I wasn't an SK or a VT.

[ashersky]

Your arguments with ash are good evidence for you not being a WW...

Also, the SK flipping is good evidence.

[ashersky]

No third death can happen without me being the vig 

As others have pointed out, there are other ways for players to die.  And just because something is in a slot where a role was won doesn't mean it didn't end up in a random slot.

Scum lies, you know.  So some of the players are lying about what roles and slots they got.

[faust]

No third death can happen without me being the vig 

As others have pointed out, there are other ways for players to die.  And just because something is in a slot where a role was won doesn't mean it didn't end up in a random slot.

Scum lies, you know.  So some of the players are lying about what roles and slots they got.

So maybe you should vote for Jake or Galzria who won the random slots. They have confirmed each other's claims, so they're probably both scum anyway 

[LaLight]

Having reread some portion of the game I must admit that I never could and can not now read Space. I mean, sure, they're townie, did townie stuff, pushed people who didn't want to claim or slowed the claim down, but still, this is null!Space.

iguana's scummy tho, but I am very aware of Space. By the way they both may be scum

[faust]

null!Space.

I think the more general term is kernel.

[Dylan32]

null!Space.

I think the more general term is kernel.

^ upvote

[SpaceAnemone]

Your arguments with ash are good evidence for you not being a WW...

Also, the SK flipping is good evidence.

And if you'd quoted the whole of my sentence, that's exactly what I went on to say! Why even bother responding to me out of context like that?

[Roadrunner7671]

So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum, and one of Iguana and Space are scum. Can we keep the lynchpool to them four?