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Author Topic: Archivist: A Single Card Engine Card  (Read 10444 times)

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rinkworks

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Archivist: A Single Card Engine Card
« on: September 25, 2011, 10:45:35 am »
+2

The "single card engine" thread got me thinking about what other kinds of single-card engines are possible.  I really like Minion (even though I get tired of playing them after a while), and so I was mulling over what might be similar but different.

When I realized we don't have a non-terminal "draw until X cards in hand"-type card, the rest came easily.

The problem with Library/Watchtower is that you can't spam them.  Even if you threw on +1 Action, only the first one works; the rest become cantrips.  But what if the card in question could also discard stuff, to set up the next one?  So I came up with this, refined after a little playtesting:

Archivist
$5 - Action
+1 Action
Choose one:  Draw until you have 6 cards in hand; or +$1 and discard 1 or more cards.

A single Archivist is roughly a Laboratory.  Better if you can play Festivals and Fishing Villages first; worse if you draw it into your hand after your draw engine has started working.

But the idea of the card is to amass a critical density of them.  With two in hand, you play one for the discard, throwing out the substandard cards in your hand so that the second one will draw a larger number of cards.  With three or more in hand, you probably play for the draw first, so the second can discard more, so the third can draw more.

If your last Archivist draws an Archivist, just play the new Archivist as a cantrip.  But if your last Archivist manages to draw two or more, you can repeat the cycle.  The idea is that eventually you wind up with a 6-card hand with your best cards in it.  Contrast with Minion, which earns more money as it goes but ends on a purely average 4-card hand.

It might sound like a lot of work to go to:  a pair of Archivist is roughly a Cellar, after all, right?  Well, not quite.  Cellars use up spots in your hand.  But because of the way Archivists draw, they don't really take up any space at all.  So it's more like Cellars paired up with Laboratories.

I added the +$1 coin after playtesting showed it was still a little weak.  But I think that did the trick.  The bonus only applies to the discard part, because otherwise you don't get any benefit with that option other than to set up another one.  Now you get benefit just by cycling in addition to the fact that you'll end the chain with your best cards in hand.  It also allows you to get benefit from an Archivist if you only have one left, and your hand size is more than 6 cards.  Play it, discard a Province, and you're up another coin.

It combos very interestingly with other cards.  As I mentioned, Festivals and Fishing Villages and all the other cards boost a Minion engine will also boost an Archivist engine in the same way.  It's also interesting when there are other drawers present, like Smithy or Rabble or Torturer, because you can try to time playing those to "up" points within the Archivist cycle to maximize benefit.  That was probably the coolest thing I stumbled on.  I really have to think that we'll get a non-terminal "draw until X" card in a future expansion, because even without the cycling piece of my card, the combos with other drawers are just too cool.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 03:40:23 pm by theory »
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icesphere

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Re: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2011, 04:45:52 pm »
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Interesting card idea, that's next on my list of fan cards to try out.
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icesphere

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Re: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2011, 08:42:01 am »
0

Just finished playing a game with this card, and it was a lot of fun to play. I've added this card online if anyone wants to try it out (http://kingdom.servegame.org). When creating a game select Custom under Card Selection, and then select the card under Other Fan Cards and then click Create (the remaining kingdom cards will be randomized based on which decks you have selected).
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ChaosRed

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Re: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2011, 03:17:31 pm »
0

I had a similar card in mind:

$5 - Action
+1 Action
Discard a card, if you do, choose one:  Draw until you have 5 cards in hand or trash a card in your hand and gain +2$

Draws 2 or more cards...or trashes for money...and then lets you do it all over again if you have another one in your hand. Might be worth 6 I guess, perhaps the reason I conceived of the card is I really want it in my hand. My card isn't an engine though, it has sex appeal, but it can't sustain itself forever as it will eventually act like a cannibal (there's a great name for a card by the way).

As it stands now, I can have two Archivists in hand I set up a draw of 6 cards and a +1$. As it stands now I'd buy this card over lab, because it not only draws it can filter and draw (as long as you have two), which is really strong. The things you could do with this and Festival seem really strong.

Play a festival gain 2$
Play an archivist, discard your hand except an archivist gain 1$.
Play an archivist, 6 cards (gain either another festival or archivist to keep going).

You'd avoid other card draw cards I think, as they tend to get in the way. You want actions. You gain your cards via Archivist (and you stage it to gain as many as possible to keep the engine going). So for example, you'd want as many Festival/Archivist plays as possible to keep milling them as long as possible. A deck of three archivist, three festivals and three gold, wins the game really fast.

I don't think the card is broken, but my eyes do light up looking at it...which tells me it might be worth 6$. The key is having two in your hand, or being lucky enough to draw a second one after you've activated the first. It has to chain at least once to really be effective, which might justify it being worth just 5. Then again I'm a noob, so my assessment of cards is still pretty weak.

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rinkworks

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Re: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2011, 03:49:05 pm »
0

Quote
You'd avoid other card draw cards I think, as they tend to get in the way.

You'd think, but they work fine if you play them at the right moment.  Obviously if you've just discarded down with an Archivist, and what's left in your hand is an Archivist and a Laboratory, you don't play the Laboratory.  But if you've just drawn up to 6, the Lab is a real help.

That's true of terminal drawers as well.  As Archivist is a non-terminal, you can always play something at the end of the chain, and you (usually) always want to end the chain on a drawing Archivist rather than a discarding Archivist.  If, in that final hand, you've got a Smithy, hey, now your final hand is 8 cards instead of 6.

Of course if you mix in Villages -- which is good anyway for being able to play terminals as you go -- sometimes those drawing cards work in the middle of an Archivist chain.  If so, you sort of have to play what you do from there by ear.  Because if you have a hand of 8 cards, you need to discard a lot more to the next Archivist before you can earn your way back down to where they'll draw for you again.  So is your current 8-card hand worth breaking down for the chance you'll get a better 6-card hand?  Not always easy to say.

Quote
I don't think the card is broken, but my eyes do light up looking at it...which tells me it might be worth 6$. The key is having two in your hand, or being lucky enough to draw a second one after you've activated the first. It has to chain at least once to really be effective, which might justify it being worth just 5. Then again I'm a noob, so my assessment of cards is still pretty weak.

I think you're probably right on the money here.  I do think it's better at $5, because singles aren't as strong at $6.  You need multiples to unlock the full potential, which I think makes $6 not very practical.  Buying multiples of a $5 card is already an expensive proposition.  Minion is much the same way -- powerful, but the $20 or $25 you have to spend across 4-5 turns to get them running is pretty steep.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 03:51:25 pm by rinkworks »
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icesphere

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Re: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2011, 06:40:49 pm »
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In the game I played it felt just right at 5. 4 would have been too cheap and 6 would have been too expensive.
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theory

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Re: Archivist: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2011, 03:41:17 pm »
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I've stickied this topic to promote discussion of what is -- thus far -- the only fan-made card to be on Isotropic.

You might be interested to know that someone has made some artwork to go along with this card.
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ChaosRed

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Re: Archivist: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2011, 03:53:06 pm »
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You might be interested to know that someone has made some artwork to go along with this card.

That looks terrific! Thanks for linking to that.
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jsimantov

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Re: Archivist: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2011, 04:03:02 pm »
+2

You might be interested to know that someone has made some artwork to go along with this card.

That was me! And rinkworks, if you want your real name in there, let me know. :)
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rinkworks

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Re: Archivist: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2011, 12:34:26 am »
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You might be interested to know that someone has made some artwork to go along with this card.

That was me! And rinkworks, if you want your real name in there, let me know. :)

Wow, excellent job!  That looks great.
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jsimantov

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Re: Archivist: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2011, 02:21:37 am »
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Wow, excellent job!  That looks great.

Thanks! I uploaded a new version crediting you by name. :)
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permanoob

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Re: Archivist: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2012, 06:49:56 pm »
+1

I love this card. So much. Here is my most cherished game log:
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201110/31/game-20111031-192747-9868d312.html
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brian22

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Re: Archivist: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2012, 09:38:49 am »
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Wait... how do you use archivist on iso?
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Dubdubdubdub

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Re: Archivist: A Single Card Engine Card
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2012, 09:56:09 am »
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You can't anymore, it was featured for a while and I was sad to see it go :(
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 11:33:26 am by Dubdubdubdub »
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