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[Dylan32]

So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote.  I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content.  Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Speaking of slow, the line in this museum is ridiculous. But really I'm a lot more active in this game than some other people so I don't even know why you guys are complaining.

[Dylan32]

Speaking of slow, the line in this museum is ridiculous. But really I'm a lot more active in this game than some other people so I don't even know why you guys are complaining.

My comment wasn't related to your actual activity level, just the "enjoying the slower pace" comment. I've never seen town happy about a low activity game.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Speaking of slow, the line in this museum is ridiculous. But really I'm a lot more active in this game than some other people so I don't even know why you guys are complaining.

My comment wasn't related to your actual activity level, just the "enjoying the slower pace" comment. I've never seen town happy about a low activity game.

I didn't mean the pace of the game, rather me taking things a little easier.

[gkrieg13]

So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote.  I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content.  Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.

It is also strange that Jake hasn't posted since I explained my vote on him, when he has been online.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote.  I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content.  Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.

It is also strange that Jake hasn't posted since I explained my vote on him, when he has been online.

Well I just jumped online although my computer is always on which might explain why but just because I'm trying to play a more slower game so that I'm not lynched D-1.

Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.

... so you're celebrating the nice slow pace of the game as an excuse not to engage, and just to leave your vote at L-1? Like you genuinely believe I'm the biggest scum threat here right now?

And since there are only 7 of us in the game, it means people have to talk more, not less!

ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum. Also gkrieg your case is true but just because I've been scum the last two games since i changed my play style doesn't mean I'm scum this game so really the case is invalid.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

People, this game is sloooooow!

Let's take a look at the player list:

pingpongsam -- lynched. He has excuses for being quiet. Or for ranting at us all in the speccy.
Joseph2302 -- Is now missing long enough to be prodable, and was barely engaged earlier anyway.
JaketheBaseballGod22 -- Uncharacteristically quiet, which didn't actually imply good things in ZM23 (though I'd welcome it if this is a turn of events in which town!Jake is equally able to play maturely now).
Robz888 -- Appears to be genuinely VLA, but certainly has issues to account for when he's back.
Dylan32 -- Seems to be talking the most sense out of any of you lot.
gkrieg13 -- has promised some extra explaining later.
LaLight -- NKd. Several people did the "wow, weird kill" dance, but our vets were townreading him D1, so how weird is it really?
SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaaace :-)
AndrewisFTTW -- His posting history shows he's active elsewhere, but is choosing not to respond to me and to leave his unannounced L-1 vote on me.

Seems to be talking the least since by thinking that your town.

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote.  I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content.  Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.

This is actually pretty accurate to my thoughts right now.

[Dylan32]

Jake, you just make me lol in the middle of class by saying I'm making the least sense and yet agreeing with basically all my other thoughts haha.

[gkrieg13]

So I just reread Joseph and Robz, and there isn't a whole lot from either. Robz came off slightly scummier, but he is VLA, so unless more people think he would actually be a good lynch right now, unvote.  I would vote for Joseph, but I am comfortable waiting for his promised post tonight to give him a chance, since it was mostly just a lack of content.  Andrew's last post is slightly scummy. I don't know why town would be comfortable with a slow pace most of the time. Gkrieg's case on Jake makes sense too. Jake, post more.

It is also strange that Jake hasn't posted since I explained my vote on him, when he has been online.

Well I just jumped online although my computer is always on which might explain why but just because I'm trying to play a more slower game so that I'm not lynched D-1.

Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.

... so you're celebrating the nice slow pace of the game as an excuse not to engage, and just to leave your vote at L-1? Like you genuinely believe I'm the biggest scum threat here right now?

And since there are only 7 of us in the game, it means people have to talk more, not less!

ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum. Also gkrieg your case is true but just because I've been scum the last two games since i changed my play style doesn't mean I'm scum this game so really the case is invalid.

I think this is a classic scum defense.  Saying that someone's case is true but invalid.  If you were town, you would just say that you are playing a different game from your scum games, instead of saying that you are playing your exact play style you play as scum, but this time you are town.

[Joseph2302]

Reread starts here with D1:

Space jumps straight in with setup talk- that's kind of towny, as RVs is random and not usually that helpful
#59 - PPS claims scum
#62 - gkrieg has clearly thought a lot about the setup and how to protect rolecop. Then suggested a possible rolecop claim. Seemed a bit too early for that IMO. Jake also thinks they should claim D2

Wow straight into the setup talk.
That's unusual.
I'll try and contribute today, although my time management skills are poor.

I was wondering where my fellow Brit had gone, now that it's all daytime-y over here.

Poor time management is what leads to too much forum time, no?

Nah, poor time management tends to lead to me double and triple booking things, and having no time for mafia.

#105 - LaLight RVs for me, despite saying that he doesn't like RVs
#136- Robz ranked the setups for how good they are for town. And then LL and Robz argued about whether he was actually being useful or not
#182- Space encouraged voting PPS "just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game". Which I then did. And Robz did.
Then some hammering discussion with Andrew/Jake/LL, followed by PPs unvoting, jake voting, me fakehammering and then gkrieg actually hammering

Final vote count was:

D1 Final Vote Count

pingpongsam (5): SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302, Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22, gkrieg13
Robz888 (2): LaLight, AndrewisFTTW
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32

not voting (1): pingpongsam

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg

There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list

PPE: 5?

[Joseph2302]

My main thoughts on that are:

• Why did PPS spend the whole day claiming scum? It never works.
• When did Jake become much quieter? I'm not convinced this is a scum tell though.
• Why did gkrieg hammer exactly when he did?
• That wagon seemed far too easy, including PPS there were 7 people that kind of supported the wagon (LL did as well)

[Joseph2302]

I intend to do D2 reads later

[gkrieg13]

So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg

There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list

PPE: 5?

So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.

[SpaceAnemone]

So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg

There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list

PPE: 5?

So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.

Heh.. that's exactly what I was thinking. LL being off-wagon and town is possibly another reason he made a good night target, actually -- if we actually have two scums on-wagon, they'll need to be careful about allowing PoE on there.

[gkrieg13]

So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg

There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list

PPE: 5?

So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.

Heh.. that's exactly what I was thinking. LL being off-wagon and town is possibly another reason he made a good night target, actually -- if we actually have two scums on-wagon, they'll need to be careful about allowing PoE on there.

This is something I always think scum does when I'm town, but never actually do when I'm scum

[Joseph2302]

So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg

There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list

PPE: 5?

So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.

Yes. Probably should have checked the off-wagon.

[Joseph2302]

So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg

There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list

PPE: 5?

So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.

Heh.. that's exactly what I was thinking. LL being off-wagon and town is possibly another reason he made a good night target, actually -- if we actually have two scums on-wagon, they'll need to be careful about allowing PoE on there.

This is something I always think scum does when I'm town, but never actually do when I'm scum

So the possible N1 lynch candidates then would have been LL as the most experienced off-wagon player, or the lazy choice of most experienced players (which would be gkrieg & Robz I guess)

[SpaceAnemone]

ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum.

I'm the person who's one vote away from being lynched right now, thanks specifically to Andrew. He can just about get away with putting me to an unannounced L-1 by claiming this is his careless laid-back game-play and he didn't realise. However leaving me there now that he's admitted he's fully aware that it's L-1, is not good play for town at all unless he actually thinks I'm really a threat. OTOH, if he's scum waiting for a derphammer, it makes much more sense.

Also, I think gkreig's point about your retort not coming from a very towny-seeming place is also accurate.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I've also thought of a new argument in favour of your point, actually. Scum has a slight incentive to try to kill off PRs with "interesting" results that don't incriminate them, because flipping those people could give them actual information about other non-scum players. I think it's worth mentioning because several of our possible game scenarios have a doctor present, and I'd like to know that they're potentially aware of this.

I'm kinda confused by this. Killing people with "interesting" but non-incriminating results give information about town players? Can you explain what you mean by this?

Yeah, leat's take Dylan's response:

If I were a rolecop, I would have targeted Joseph and gotten jailkeeper.
If I were a tracker, I would have targeted gkrieg and seen him target SA.
If I were a watcher, I would have targeted Robz and seen Jake target him.

Now hypothesize a scum-team of Robz and Joseph. They know what version of the game we're in because each version has a different configuration of scums. So say they know we're in game 7, with a watcher and a tracker. Dylan having interesting information on offer means that he's a more interesting flip to them. If he happens to flip tracker, they know gkrieg is the watcher, and if he flips watcher, they know Jake is the tracker. If it's an Andrew-Jake scum-team and they hadn't worked this out for themselves, then I'm really sorry to town for spelling it out for them, but I don't think it's too hard to work that part out, is it?

I think I understand what you mean. But it's a moot point anyway since everyone already posted results I think except for Robz, who isn't playing along.

Out of all of these I find SA's and Joseph's votes to be the scummiest. SA's vote was RVS and they never even commented on pps's "claim" besides joking about it as a reason to join his wagon. So SA pretty much voted randomly, encouraged more random votes, and then just went along with the wagon because hey, as long as they're town it's totally cool if they get lynched right?

What was actually on my mind during the long period in which I didn't unvote was that I get scum-read all the time for being cautious. Take a look at the opening of Stranger Things (RMM 40), where I got scum-read particularly for unvoting on an early-game PPS wagon!

I think PPS is a very strong scum player. He was my buddy in the first of my scum games, so he's kind of the uberscum to me. And while my RVS vote on him was random in the sense of me having no in-game info to base the vote on, my choice of person was based on the fact that I see him as dangerous. When it looked like he was WIFOMing at us in a way I found hard to read, and definitely not conf!towny, seeing the wagon through seemed like totally reasonable play from my point of view.

So in this instance, he flipped town, which is disappointing. I agree that it's even possible it was a wagon comprised mostly of town. However, I feel like Joseph's vote on it was pretty scummy, and I really don't feel good about Robz's play at all.

This isn't necessarily something that makes you townier. You were previously called scummy for unvoting so now you decide not to unvote so you look towny. I get how you would see this as a lose-lose situation and I can't speak to the incident in RMM40, but what's more important? You being seen as towny? Or not lynching town? If you're scum it would obviously be the former, which is what you chose. I agree about Joseph and Robz's votes.

Okay, so we need better terminology here. Let's use "scummy" just to mean "something indicative of a person actually being scum", and "anti-town" to mean "did something that appears not to have been in the best interests of town". I think when you called all our votes on PPS scummy, you mostly meant anti-town, yes?

Now, an action can be anti-town and still be performed by a town player, but usually what gets someone scum-read is performing an action that isn't necessarily in the best interests of town. So when I'm scum-read in one game for doing something several other players disapproved of in terms of good town play, I'm going to internalize that and try to do better in subsequent games. I can categorically state that there's nothing scummy about that progression, because I was town then and I'm town now.

At the same time, there's nothing mutually exclusive about on the one hand acting in a towny way that tries to broadcast to the other town players that I'm on their side and on the other hand trying not to lynch town. As we've seen (from the things Robz was apparently scum-reading me for!), I was asking questions of the people on PPS's wagon, and trying to get better reads on people while also being on the wagon. And PoE for a weird wagon ought to be easier to do from the inside, though right now I'm finding it hard to narrow down my scum-reads.
[/quote]

Fair enough. Maybe it's just me but I try not to adjust my play according to what some people see as scummy because obviously someone else will come along and contradict that and call it towny. And because of that I don't think anyone should strive to be towny in other people's eyes and should rather just try to play in a way that benefits town, if you're town obviously.

[Joseph2302]

ummmm just because your not "the biggest scum threat in this game right now" (not sure about this) doesn't mean your not scum.

I'm the person who's one vote away from being lynched right now, thanks specifically to Andrew. He can just about get away with putting me to an unannounced L-1 by claiming this is his careless laid-back game-play and he didn't realise. However leaving me there now that he's admitted he's fully aware that it's L-1, is not good play for town at all unless he actually thinks I'm really a threat. OTOH, if he's scum waiting for a derphammer, it makes much more sense.

Also, I think gkreig's point about your retort not coming from a very towny-seeming place is also accurate.

I agree with Space here. Vote: Andrew

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sorry for the quote fail.

Oh and sorry for the unannounced L-1, I didn't notice. I keep forgetting there are only 7 of us in this game right now.

... so you're celebrating the nice slow pace of the game as an excuse not to engage, and just to leave your vote at L-1? Like you genuinely believe I'm the biggest scum threat here right now?

And since there are only 7 of us in the game, it means people have to talk more, not less!

Sorry it wasn't clear earlier but I didn't mean I was enjoying the slow pace of the game. I meant I was enjoying how I was taking things a little slower and taking mafia a little less seriously. And again I'm not sure why you're insisting I'm not engaging when I clearly am, and I don't see a problem with you being at L-1 either, so I'll keep my vote there for now.

Still reading the latest posts.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Reread starts here with D1:

Space jumps straight in with setup talk- that's kind of towny, as RVs is random and not usually that helpful
#59 - PPS claims scum
#62 - gkrieg has clearly thought a lot about the setup and how to protect rolecop. Then suggested a possible rolecop claim. Seemed a bit too early for that IMO. Jake also thinks they should claim D2

Wow straight into the setup talk.
That's unusual.
I'll try and contribute today, although my time management skills are poor.

I was wondering where my fellow Brit had gone, now that it's all daytime-y over here.

Poor time management is what leads to too much forum time, no?

Nah, poor time management tends to lead to me double and triple booking things, and having no time for mafia.

#105 - LaLight RVs for me, despite saying that he doesn't like RVs
#136- Robz ranked the setups for how good they are for town. And then LL and Robz argued about whether he was actually being useful or not
#182- Space encouraged voting PPS "just in case he's bluffing about his conviction that PPS is scum this game". Which I then did. And Robz did.
Then some hammering discussion with Andrew/Jake/LL, followed by PPs unvoting, jake voting, me fakehammering and then gkrieg actually hammering

Final vote count was:

D1 Final Vote Count

pingpongsam (5): SpaceAnemone, Joseph2302, Robz888, JaketheBaseballGod22, gkrieg13
Robz888 (2): LaLight, AndrewisFTTW
Joseph2302 (1): Dylan32

not voting (1): pingpongsam

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg

There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list

PPE: 5?

Wow. Way to "reread" and not actually provide any thoughts or reads whatsoever. Scummy as hell.

[AndrewisFTTW]

My main thoughts on that are:

• Why did PPS spend the whole day claiming scum? It never works.
• When did Jake become much quieter? I'm not convinced this is a scum tell though.
• Why did gkrieg hammer exactly when he did?
• That wagon seemed far too easy, including PPS there were 7 people that kind of supported the wagon (LL did as well)

Alright alright, I should've looked at the very next post. But still, there's no substance to this.

[AndrewisFTTW]

So the mislynchers were Space, me, Robz, Jake & gkrieg

There's 2 scum in the game, I assume at least 1 of the scum is in that list

PPE: 5?

So you are just saying that you don't think the team is Andrew/Dylan.

Heh.. that's exactly what I was thinking. LL being off-wagon and town is possibly another reason he made a good night target, actually -- if we actually have two scums on-wagon, they'll need to be careful about allowing PoE on there.

This is something I always think scum does when I'm town, but never actually do when I'm scum

I agree to an extent. PoE is definitely a factor but not N1 and probably not N2 either.