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[theorel]

Okay, my previous post on good night actions was too stream of consciousness, and I had a rule wrong.  So, let's try again:
Players 1, 2, and 3 should do the following in order (if you can):
1: Red-Lift-B
2: Blue-Lift-B
3: Lift-B-A

-For everyone else here are things that I think are good actions, if you don't feel like you can make good decisions yourself check below:

Various good night-actions (IMO):
-Red-A(Target)-Lift is very good.
-Red-Lift-B is a generally decent if you're later in the action.  If you get blocked you commuted to potentially block a kill.  If you don't get blocked you recharge the Red-section again.
Do NOT use Red-with both A&B, since that will cancel copping if successful.
-Red-B-Lift is fine if you think you'll be NK'd
-B(Target)-Red-A(Target) I think is fine (though you've got better chances of blocking a town-role than a scum-role, you could block a cop-switch or a kill.  Also you prevent scum from using the roleblock if you act before them.  Which is 1000% preferrable.)
-A(Target)-Lift-A(Target) is good.  Make sure you specify a second target in case you get lift-blocked.
-A(Target)-Lift-B(Target) is similarly good, especially if you're early in the turn-order.  Again note that you'll be roleblocking if you get lift-blocked.
-A(Target)&B(Target)(either order)-Lift is good.
-Lift-A(Target)-B(Target) is good for player 7+ also (specify target in case blocked)
-Blue-B(Target)-Lift is good IMO.
-Blue-B(Target)&A(Target) is similarly good, as long as we all know who you targeted.

The following are decent alternatives
-Blue-A(Target)-Lift same as above.
-Lift-Blue-A(Target). works similarly.  If you catch the lift you'll have opportunity to pass cards...not really sure what to do with that honestly.
-Lift-Blue-B(Target) is okay.
-Lift-Red-A(Target) (or B) is okay.  Target expected town, since if you catch the lift they get bonus cards.
-Blue-Lift-B(target) is decent.

And that should pretty much cover it.  Basically moving red is better than staying which is better than blue, but if we all go red we mostly don't make it to the lower deck.  I included a couple lift-less actions here.  I think mostly we should try to go down to the lower deck...but staying top-side get's that third-phase action, and I included the couple actions that work with that.

Notably you should definitely NOT:
-Red-A+B as it just straight up wastes the cop shot.
-Red-A-A because if you succeed and die you took all of our copping info with you.

[theorel]

What's with the ii wagon?  Why isn't there a Haddock-Wagon? I thought one was starting up. vote: Haddock

If one setup-discussing player has to be scum, I think I lean silver atm...but I'm not convinced that any setup-player is necessarily scum.

null-ish on the rest (maybe leaning a bit town on e).

[faust]

What's with the ii wagon?  Why isn't there a Haddock-Wagon? I thought one was starting up. vote: Haddock

If one setup-discussing player has to be scum, I think I lean silver atm...but I'm not convinced that any setup-player is necessarily scum.

null-ish on the rest (maybe leaning a bit town on e).

What's with the ii wagon is that ii is scum.

[CheesyJelly]

Cheesy-Jelly (though he is funny).

My work here is done!

[CheesyJelly]

#375 is a post I really like.  Thank you, Theorel.

II is a better vote than Haddock, from what I can see, but I've previously shown myself to be blind to scum!Haddock.

Vote: iguanaiguana

[Haddock]

Gaaaaaaddd.
Too much to catch up on.
I'll try.
The theory chat is overwhelming.

I should not be playing this game.  I do not have the time.  And I'm SO TIRED.

[Haddock]

OK, my turn. I'm gonna get some serious backlash.

Pretty self-aware.  Usually a scum trait.

Disagree.  Scum always have more options than town because of their NK, so reducing the powers available each night is more harmful to town than scum.

Besides, according to your argument it can't hurt!

PPE:

I feel like faust is changing the reasons for his argument on the fly, which feels unfaustian.  Also, if a busted upper blue is as useful as he claims, I feel like town!faust wouldn't hand that strat to scum so easily.

Vote: faust

I like the first half of this post, even if it's probably not really all that true.  (we outnumber scum, being the main reason why).

I have no idea what that PPE is about.  Was faust reading like that?  I honestly couldn't tell.  Too much pure theory.

If we try to coordinate or really optimize night actions at all,  we'll spend all day talking about how best to do it, then lynch a random person.

Which actually for D1 might not be that bad.

That D1 hate is getting seriously tiresome.

I hate THIS D1.  Way too much theory talk and I'm exhausted and too busy for it.

If we try to coordinate or really optimize night actions at all,  we'll spend all day talking about how best to do it, then lynch a random person.

Which actually for D1 might not be that bad.

That D1 hate is getting seriously tiresome.

I think it is just hard for me to look for scum tells in a wash of theory talk. Not so for you?

Oh look, someone agrees.

Ouch.

self-aware or overdefensive.  take your pick.

Ok I reread the setup twice and there’s no prs and other alignments. Interestin. vote: Burning Skull’s favorite reptile

Okay so calling ss/faust scummy and giving a reason then voting me (top wagon) for no reason is actually scummy. Like legit scummy.

Vote: LL

I dislike this vote quite a lot but I don't know why.




uhhhhhh,,,,,,,,,,,,,

vote: Skumpy?

[Skumpy]

Okay, my previous post on good night actions was too stream of consciousness, and I had a rule wrong.  So, let's try again:
Players 1, 2, and 3 should do the following in order (if you can):
1: Red-Lift-B
2: Blue-Lift-B
3: Lift-B-A

Fine with this, will look at rest later*. IF ANYBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH THIS, PLEASE SPEAK UP! I'd also still prefer to know who can do what so that when things go haywire, people can't copout behind 'oh, I didn't have the cards!'. Or at the very least, like Theorel did, a "Yes, I can do it all" or a "No, I can't do it all". I imagine most people here probably can, and I don't think admitting it one way or the other reveals too much about the hand. The sooner the better with this.

*except the part about roleblocking - what exactly do we expect to gain out of roleblocking? Because I expect to lose a lot more.

I think I've got my first vote planned...I'll act on it shortly.

PPE: Hi! I watched a Dominion video of yours once! Thank you for the warm greeting!

[silverspawn]

maybe we should stop the theory talk, otherwise an angry faust might pay you a visit. Get it? Ok it's a bad pun...

[silverspawn]

Haddock's problems sound very real. That doesn't prove he's town but I think it's a more towny way to feel. He's no-lynch material.

[silverspawn]

#375 is a post I really like.  Thank you, Theorel.

II is a better vote than Haddock, from what I can see, but I've previously shown myself to be blind to scum!Haddock.

Vote: iguanaiguana

That sounds classic scummy. vote: CJ

[silverspawn]

If one setup-discussing player has to be scum, I think I lean silver atm

Why?

[LaLight]

SRy guys last day of wef and i will be available soon. Now too dama to even dama

[Skumpy]

Thanks a lot SS for stealing my voting thunder. Now it's not as dramatic!

Someone will do it, someone will.

we need a hero

No we don't. Why are you all so hyper-focused on wiggling the mouse? It has two outcomes, one that is bad for town and the other that is bad for scum, and probably to equal degrees. So why should we waste our time doing - statistically speaking - nothing?

Disagree.  Scum always have more options than town because of their NK, so reducing the powers available each night is more harmful to town than scum.

Besides, according to your argument it can't hurt!

PPE:

I feel like faust is changing the reasons for his argument on the fly, which feels unfaustian.  Also, if a busted upper blue is as useful as he claims, I feel like town!faust wouldn't hand that strat to scum so easily.

Vote: faust

Here we have a nice passionate complaint against faust...

What's with the ii wagon?  Why isn't there a Haddock-Wagon? I thought one was starting up. vote: Haddock

If one setup-discussing player has to be scum, I think I lean silver atm...but I'm not convinced that any setup-player is necessarily scum.

null-ish on the rest (maybe leaning a bit town on e).

What's with the ii wagon is that ii is scum.

#375 is a post I really like.  Thank you, Theorel.

II is a better vote than Haddock, from what I can see, but I've previously shown myself to be blind to scum!Haddock.

Vote: iguanaiguana

And then two posts later, the Jelly puts his faith in his biggest adversary.


Vote: CheesyJelly

maybe we should stop the theory talk, otherwise an angry faust might pay you a visit. Get it? Ok it's a bad pun...

Except that we still haven't decided anything...

[Skumpy]

SRy guys last day of wef and i will be available soon. Now too dama to even dama

Good to know it's been a productive trip!

[Roadrunner7671]

There's no way I'm contributing in setup talk, which I think is pretty clear. I'll go along with a plan or do my own thing that seems good, and maybe find some time to give the mouse a little wiggle.

[theorel]

...
*except the part about roleblocking - what exactly do we expect to gain out of roleblocking? Because I expect to lose a lot more.
...

roleblock can be taken precisely once per phase. (unless I'm super misunderstanding the setup)
If scum takes the roleblock, they will guaranteed block a town player.
If town takes the roleblock, they might block a scum player.
I think scum will try to grab the roleblock. I think stealing one of scum's tools and using it for town is good.

[theorel]

If one setup-discussing player has to be scum, I think I lean silver atm

Why?

Because you're giving advice I disagree with, and one of the potential reasons for that is that you're scum.  This setup is opaque enough that I think scum could easily give bad advice disguised as trying to help the town.
As I noted, I don't actually think you're scum, I actually think you're just town with a different perspective on the setup that I happen to disagree with.  But it's certainly possible that you're scum giving bad advice.  It's also possible that you're scum giving what you think is good advice (same applies to skumpy).  But none of us actually has to be scum.

[theorel]

Okay, so faust has decided that ii is scum, and he doesn't need reasons just a tunnel.
(Looking back, his opinion is that ii should be more involved in theory-talk?  Which ii then denies...does anyone familiar with ii's meta have corroboration on this?)

Other people just think he's a good lynch? For no reason at all?  C'mon people if he's scum sell me on it.  If he's not scum, find scum.  Random declarations don't cut it.

At least I know why CheesyJelly is being voted for.  And...well, it's not a bad reason.  It seems like he's following the authority that he's suspicious of.  Of course it seems that way because he didn't actually give a reason for his vote.  He also jumped on the Haddock v. iguana thing, which as far as I can tell is pretty much random.

Okay, I can go back to my (formerly 100% random) vote of vote: CheesyJelly.

[faust]

It seems like he's following the authority that he's suspicious of.

That's just how government works!

[EFHW]

please play back the log of our stated concerns about science deniers!

[EFHW]

sorry, I was off shift and didn't see it.

[iguanaiguana]

I intend to get to this but I also intend to enjoy this weekend because this past week was pretty awful for me.

@silver Really I do not know who is scum except maybe LL. I will get back to this, read the game and share more thoughts before deadline.

[CheesyJelly]

Voting for the same person that faust is voting for is not the same as following his authority.  Faust doesn't own that wagon.  I've contributed little to set-up talk or theory, so I'm going to contribute my vote, and a wagon of one helps nobody.

[SpaceAnemone]

Vote Count 1.3

Haddock (1): Roadrunner7671
iguanaiguana (4): faust, gkrieg13, LaLight, CheesyJelly
LaLight (1): iguanaiguana
silverspawn (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (1): 2.71828.....
Skumpy (1): Haddock
CheesyJelly (3): silverspawn, Skumpy, theorel
Not Voting (2): Luckat, EFHW

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
D1 ends at 17.35 forum time on Monday 29th January.