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[Skumpy]

Hello all. This was a fun game I remember playing a few weeks ago (and therefore don't have a log as I'm just now deciding to post it).

The board was:

Coin of the Realm
Catapult
Develop
Doctor
Menagerie
Fortress
Apprentice
Butcher
Cartographer (On this board: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n15Oe7Hlk4)
Altar

Plan
Lost Arts



I got Coin/Butcher on 2/5 as player 1, my opponent opened Plan on Fortress/Fortress on 3/4.

 As you can see, Fortress kinda matters here a lot, but what do I do along with it? My opponent neglected Develop and went for a lot of Apprentices (5 or so) with some Butchers to gain the Apprentices. I was much more haphazard: I somewhat-rushed Fortresses, getting 5 or 6, and then started adding a collection of Develops (which gained more Butchers, Apprentices, and Menageries), stupidly overpayed a $5 Doctor early-ish which was all but useless, and also had a Catapult and picked up one or two more COTRs on dud turns. Also picked up an Altar which I planned to use (and did in fact do so) as Butcher fodder. Despite falling behind 24-6 on Province points, I managed to Butcher out the Provinces and Develop for enough Duchies to eke out a win, thanks to first player advantage. This was turn 12, or so.

Anyways, I guess the main questions I have for this board are:

1) How hard do you rush for Fortresses?
2) What's better? Apprentice or Butcher (or get both evenly)?
3) How early/how many Develops do you get?
4) How hard do you rush for Fortresses?

..as well as how Catapult, Plan, and everything else factors in.

[majiponi]

Q1. Gain AT LEAST 5 Fortresses. Only 4, unlikely to win.
Q2. 2 Apprentice first, then Butcher.
Q3. If 4/3 start, open Develop-Fortress to access Apprentice early.
If 3/4 start, open Plan-Fortress to gain Fortress&Develop on turn 3 or 4.
If 5/2 or 2/5, open Butcher-pass. Passing prevents Butcher on the bottom. Trash Estates for Coin of the Realms (not for Actions, just for compressing and taking coin tokens)

[dedicateddan]

Step 1: Lost arts on develop or apprentice
Step 2: Have apprentice, develop, and fortress in hand
Step 3: Develop fortress into develop + apprentice. Apprentice the fortress. Repeat until the develop/apprentice piles empty

[majiponi]

Step 1: Lost arts on develop or apprentice
Step 2: Have apprentice, develop, and fortress in hand
Step 3: Develop fortress into develop + apprentice. Apprentice the fortress. Repeat until the develop/apprentice piles empty

In a mirror game, it is too slow, I think. To buy Lost Arts, you have to earn $6. How? Butcher? Wait until the 3 cards are in hand? How many Apprentice are left?

[Chris is me]

The fortress split is quite clearly the most important thing on this board.

You can autopile Develop + Apprentice as Dan points out, and it takes very little setup to do this. The Fortress pile will be empty by then and you'll likely have a forced win. Butcher stuff to get Coin tokens to hit 6 once, then you just need Develop, Fortress, and anything that draws a single card in hand and you have the auto pile.

If not that, I think there's not an unreasonable argument for Catapulting Fortress? Can easily throw several Curses a turn, and the only ways to really clear them out of the deck are slow and clunky. I dunno. I'm not actually good at Dominion, I just click fun cards.

[dedicateddan]

Step 1: Lost arts on develop or apprentice
Step 2: Have apprentice, develop, and fortress in hand
Step 3: Develop fortress into develop + apprentice. Apprentice the fortress. Repeat until the develop/apprentice piles empty

In a mirror game, it is too slow, I think. To buy Lost Arts, you have to earn $6. How? Butcher? Wait until the 3 cards are in hand? How many Apprentice are left?

How you trash really depends on the shuffles. Plan, doctor, apprentice, and butcher are useful in different situations.

Here's an example of a turn 10, 30 point win off a single fortress:
Game: 1301428 on dominion.games

[Titandrake]

You can autopile Develop + Apprentice as Dan points out, and it takes very little setup to do this. The Fortress pile will be empty by then and you'll likely have a forced win.

Fortress pile might not be empty. I could see games where you get 1 Develop, 1 Apprentice, and Lost Arts before the Fortress pile runs out. But being the first to do that gives you basically all the power, so the game should effectively be over soon.

[terminalCopper]

The fortress split is quite clearly the most important thing on this board.

I think this is a classical misconception. While I agree that you really, really want to have a fortress in hand whenever you have a buchter, apprentice or develop, the probability to have one is mostly determined by the ratio of fortresses/deck size. To increase this ratio, trashing is more effective than gaining.

[Dingan]

On 2/5 opening, is -/Doctor good?  Or can Apprentice into Develop (T3 or T4) really get rid of Coppers that quickly?