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Author Topic: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.  (Read 278457 times)

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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #950 on: June 18, 2022, 06:10:47 pm »
0

I did that in a kingdom with Enchantress, opponent didn't realize their use of Enchantress was actually helping me have a bit of a "Clerk village" 8)

ahh i see.  Clerk. 

Kinda surprised there hasn't been a cleric card made.  It's probably on the horizon.
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #951 on: June 18, 2022, 06:17:45 pm »
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Charlatan games and anything with coins (pooka/stables/sacrifice etc) is a nice little bonus and useful way to get rid of curses/trash or use them for benefit.
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #952 on: June 19, 2022, 01:51:33 am »
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Had a game with Cleric and Way of the Pig in a kingdom with no villages. Using Cleric's reaction and playing as Pig gave a village effect - quite useful in that kingdom. Would've been pretty useless if there were actual villages though

what is Cleric?  It's not on the wiki and I don't recall seeing it in any of the prosperity or seaside reboots

Oops. Meant Clerk. Don't know why I was thinking "Cleric" for that card's name
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #953 on: June 19, 2022, 07:29:21 am »
+2

Oops. Meant Clerk. Don't know why I was thinking "Cleric" for that card's name

Well, they are etymologically the same word.
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #954 on: June 19, 2022, 02:29:58 pm »
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This is against two bots, so don't expect exactly this result, but it's not especially common for Festival to shine like this.  You want to play the Bandit, Library is a strong draw, you like making your hand smaller with vanishing Silvers, the other Bandits might snipe your Golds but Bandit is still sort of good, Artisan likes having a Festival or topdecking a new one otherwise...  Base game 2.0 so this probably isn't news exactly but still not that common.
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #955 on: June 19, 2022, 03:19:43 pm »
+2

Festival/Library is a good engine, yes. (And yes, it's been known since Base Game 1.0 days.)
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #956 on: June 19, 2022, 03:24:55 pm »
+1

Just played a game with Crystal Ball and Way of the owl.  every time you play a Crystal ball if you get lucky enough to draw an action you get to Owl the action and draw 6 more cards.  You then get to play all the new coins since crystal is just playing a treasure in your buy phase.  Got multiple 2 colony turns on this in a deck where owl was the only way to get a +2 draw.
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #957 on: June 19, 2022, 03:27:33 pm »
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Had a game with Cleric and Way of the Pig in a kingdom with no villages. Using Cleric's reaction and playing as Pig gave a village effect - quite useful in that kingdom. Would've been pretty useless if there were actual villages though

what is Cleric?  It's not on the wiki and I don't recall seeing it in any of the prosperity or seaside reboots

Oops. Meant Clerk. Don't know why I was thinking "Cleric" for that card's name

In deference Cleric is a much more Dominion style name.  Plus a K is an I and a backwards C put together.  If you just glancing at the card I can see how the mistake could be made.

The artwork on the Cleric card would be bad AF i'd imagine.
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #958 on: June 19, 2022, 04:06:46 pm »
+3

Ha well if we're going to muse about Dominion-style naming, I'd expect a Cleric card to be a trasher

Clerk I'd suppose got name inspiration from Bureaucrat, topdecking attacks that tie one down with red tape
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #959 on: June 20, 2022, 12:12:44 am »
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Ha well if we're going to muse about Dominion-style naming, I'd expect a Cleric card to be a trasher

Clerk I'd suppose got name inspiration from Bureaucrat, topdecking attacks that tie one down with red tape

I could see it being a curser, or even a healer too as they cast spells. Like maybe +2 cards/actions/coins and trash a card from your discard pile or hand or hand out a curse.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 12:15:17 am by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #960 on: June 20, 2022, 12:19:26 am »
+2

As if Barbarian needs any more reason to buy it, but in games with debt cards they get trashed with nothing to gain unless Engineer is in the same deck.  Just brutal watching City Quarters, Overlords and Royal Blacksmiths get turned to dust.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #961 on: June 20, 2022, 09:21:26 pm »
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Festival/Library is a good engine, yes. (And yes, it's been known since Base Game 1.0 days.)

I think Bandit has an anti-synergy here, since the Golds clog up the engine.
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #962 on: June 22, 2022, 01:42:48 pm »
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Another chapter in the never ending saga that is "cards that are amazing when paired with OP Barbarian" but this one is SUPER strong.

Barbarian Shepherd.  Now it's kinda weird b/c this synergy doesn't even care if your buy shepherd, in fact it probably means you are much less likely to actually buy/get rewarded by shepherd.

But as per usual Barbarian does all its nasty shit.  But here it turns 2 pt estates that often are draw payload for a shepherd engine into curses.  People often green earlier in a shepherd deck since it aids draw payload so you also demote each of those greens one level.

But the REAL doozy is if you get lucky enough to turn pasture to a curse and eliminate 4-9 vp points and top it off with a curse to boot!

Just a brutal card. It's the new Mountebank.  Just buy as many as your actions can support, and add 2, b/c 1-2 of your Barbarians will get trashed anyway.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 01:44:14 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Imrahil3

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #963 on: June 22, 2022, 05:25:40 pm »
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Mountebank junks you with 0 or 2. Barbarian only downgrades. So the comparison is pretty weird.

Going for Shepherd in the presence of Barbarian is something you should think twice about. Does not mean that the latter is overpowered though.

Agree overall, but I think he meant Barbarian is the new toxic attack card in Mountebank’s place.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 06:52:41 pm by Imrahil3 »
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #964 on: June 22, 2022, 06:12:10 pm »
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No idea about what „toxic“ is supposed to mean in this context. Barbarian certainly is not an overpowered Attack like Cultist, Torturer or Mountebank. It is just a stronger Swindler.
Mountebank is only scary if you aren’t a Copper strategist.
/s

I used “toxic” to mean “feels worse than it is,” which is every attack card you just mentioned which hurt your soul disproportionately more than they hurt your deck. Losing a Province into a Duchy is more demoralizing to watch than just getting handed two Ruins even if it doesn’t hurt your deck as badly.

#mountebankdidnothingwrong
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Imrahil3

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #965 on: June 22, 2022, 07:32:18 pm »
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All I mean is that the card will be hated regardless of whether or not it’s powerful. Mountebank was powerful and was hated. Swindler is weak but is still hated.

Honkeyfresh was simply expressing his opinion that Barbarian will be as hated as Mountebank was, you took it to mean he considered Barbarian to have a similar effect to Mountebank, and I was just trying to clarify the conversation.

I literally gave an example that agreed with your sentiment - that getting hit with two Ruins is worse for your deck than Barbarian downgrading a card.
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #966 on: June 22, 2022, 08:32:19 pm »
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Sea Witch and Cathedral is a nasty AF combo. Gives you +2 cars on the next turn to sift your hand for amazing trashes, especially those pesky curses that your opponent keeps sea witching you with. Really fast. 8)

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #967 on: June 22, 2022, 08:34:56 pm »
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Mountebank junks you with 0 or 2. Barbarian only downgrades. So the comparison is pretty weird.

Going for Shepherd in the presence of Barbarian is something you should think twice about. Does not mean that the latter is overpowered though.

Agree overall, but I think he meant Barbarian is the new toxic attack card in Mountebank’s place.

this is precisely what I meant.
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #968 on: June 22, 2022, 08:39:45 pm »
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No idea about what „toxic“ is supposed to mean in this context. Barbarian certainly is not an overpowered Attack like Cultist, Torturer or Mountebank. It is just a stronger Swindler.

Not true.  Will be toxic, kinda is already. Already getting multiple ban requests for this card.

In fairness all the cards u mention are way OP and board dominators/hated cards. I'd but this just a smidge below the above ones. But maybe not at all either?  Because except Mountebank, all the other OP attack junkers stop after 10 curses are out, and that's just when Barbarian starts smashing all your provinces... It is a nasty nasty card.

« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 09:10:37 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #969 on: June 22, 2022, 08:47:43 pm »
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So „toxic“ is supposed to mean „I misevaluated the card“? Using such a term makes absolutely no sense. If your evaluation is wrong, you change your evaluation and don’t stick an adjective to a card.

From Webster's
Toxic:
1. containing or being poisonous material especially when capable of causing death or serious debilitation
3. extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful

Checks all boxes just based on the actions of the card. But the real toxicity will come from the people who hate attacks, and the good players who get annoyed with how ridiculously swingy it can be, and how it dominates almost every game it's in.

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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #970 on: June 23, 2022, 11:06:05 am »
+2

Barbarian is not a particularly swingy card. Swindler convert your early $5 into a Duchy, Barbarian just downgrades it to a $4.
I also fail to see why you equalized junking with downgrading a Province into a Duchy. Sure, once you hit that Duchy again you could claim that Province got swindled into an Estate (goes faster by the way in a Swindler/Peddler Kingdom) and thus we have some form of junking but that is really a stretch.

Rambling on about how supposedly overpowered a card is while ignoring what it actually thus is, well, just rambling.

I think there is a fair argument to say that some people find cards like these "unfun," regardless if they are actually overpowered or not, which like stated earlier in the thread, is more what is happening here.

Also, I have played one game where it was a single buy board with Barbarian along with good trashing, draw, and villages--I personally thought it was interesting but could see people say it was "unfun"; winning involved trying to play more Barbarians than the opponent and hoping to trash their victory cards and good action cards that they could only pick up one at a time. It was almost like knights except the knights didn't take each other out, prolonging the game where multiple attacks with random outcomes are being played each turn--like I said, not usually overpowered but situations like that come up where it can be "unfun" for some people.
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #971 on: June 23, 2022, 01:53:20 pm »
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Barbarian is not a particularly swingy card. Swindler convert your early $5 into a Duchy, Barbarian just downgrades it to a $4.
I also fail to see why you equalized junking with downgrading a Province into a Duchy. Sure, once you hit that Duchy again you could claim that Province got swindled into an Estate (goes faster by the way in a Swindler/Peddler Kingdom) and thus we have some form of junking but that is really a stretch.

Rambling on about how supposedly overpowered a card is while ignoring what it actually thus is, well, just rambling.

When most other 5 cost attacks are massively hampered Barbarian has the ability to trash provinces.  No other attack that I can think of offhand can do this.  So it is essentially becomes a grab as many barbarians as possible and hope you hit the 3/40 chance of trashing a province.  In most games 1 province trash can be the difference. 

I mean by your logic no cards are swingy. Swindler is swingy, but it can't damage provinces, in fact hitting one can often damage you based on how many provinces are left. Barbarian will turn any 8 debt card/engineer into dust along the way which is another hugely swingy event. With swindler the difference between hitting copper and estate is massive as well. . The only way i can think of that Barbarian is less swingy is that early it equally turns coppers and estates into curses. But this just more evidence of how OP Barbarian is.

And as for the rambling?  If that was the standard I might never post... 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 03:59:35 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #972 on: June 23, 2022, 04:36:30 pm »
0

Barbarian is not a particularly swingy card. Swindler convert your early $5 into a Duchy, Barbarian just downgrades it to a $4.
I also fail to see why you equalized junking with downgrading a Province into a Duchy. Sure, once you hit that Duchy again you could claim that Province got swindled into an Estate (goes faster by the way in a Swindler/Peddler Kingdom) and thus we have some form of junking but that is really a stretch.

Rambling on about how supposedly overpowered a card is while ignoring what it actually thus is, well, just rambling.

I think there is a fair argument to say that some people find cards like these "unfun," regardless if they are actually overpowered or not, which like stated earlier in the thread, is more what is happening here.

Also, I have played one game where it was a single buy board with Barbarian along with good trashing, draw, and villages--I personally thought it was interesting but could see people say it was "unfun"; winning involved trying to play more Barbarians than the opponent and hoping to trash their victory cards and good action cards that they could only pick up one at a time. It was almost like knights except the knights didn't take each other out, prolonging the game where multiple attacks with random outcomes are being played each turn--like I said, not usually overpowered but situations like that come up where it can be "unfun" for some people.

Yeah.  Some here may assume that I personally don't like Barbarian.  This isn't true.  I love it.  But then again I also love Possession and basically every attack save the Deprecated Ghost ship and cursers/junkers (w/trashing preferably). Cuz I find the chaos and destruction fun especially when people let it affect their optimal play out of frustration.  Plus I like having to plan a defense in the chaos too.

But to the masses this will be toxic and likely un-fun.  Of the top 20 banned cards 12 are attacks, but it's really 14 since possession and masquerade are really attacks. And of the remaining 6, 4 are banned for swinginess basically (rebuild/sauna) & 2 for swinginess  & attacks (tournament/black market)

Since Barbarian has powerful attacks and swinginess it won't be long until it supplants Bureaucrat on this list. Plus how the hell is Bureaucrat banned more than Margrave?  That's absurd.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zjm0G-dQWvUlghlBMeryRGJmHUH_4Miey2n5-O-kV9I/edit#gid=0 [sort "banned" column Z to A]

Quote
468   468   POSSESSION   Alchemy
467   450   WITCH   Base
466   446   MILITIA   Base
17   184   BANDIT   Base
465   467   SWINDLER   Intrigue
464   466   TORTURER   Intrigue
12   110   CHAPEL   Base
463   465   MASQUERADE   Intrigue
461   463   REBUILD   Dark Ages
456   458   KNIGHTS   Dark Ages
460   462   MOUNTEBANK   Prosperity
462   464   SEA_HAG   Seaside
448   449   PIRATE_SHIP   Seaside
458   460   GHOST_SHIP   Seaside
124   112   SAUNA   Promo
459   461   WALL   Empires
453   455   TOURNAMENT   Cornucopia
18   2   BLACK_MARKET   Promo
23   250   BUREAUCRAT   Base
457   459   MARGRAVE   Hinterlands

« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 04:41:08 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #973 on: June 23, 2022, 05:27:47 pm »
+5

Plus how the hell is Bureaucrat banned more than Margrave?  That's absurd.
Everybody has access to Bureaucrat's expansion, all the time. The same is not true of Margrave.

(I'm guessing there are quite a lot of people on free accounts whose ban list reads {Witch, Bandit, Militia, Bureaucrat}.)
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Re: Neat card interactions that were useful in the game you found them in.
« Reply #974 on: June 23, 2022, 05:42:40 pm »
0

Plus how the hell is Bureaucrat banned more than Margrave?  That's absurd.
Everybody has access to Bureaucrat's expansion, all the time. The same is not true of Margrave.

(I'm guessing there are quite a lot of people on free accounts whose ban list reads {Witch, Bandit, Militia, Bureaucrat}.)

that makes sense.
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