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[Awaclus]

Awaclus...wasn't himself this game, in the best way possible.

I was totally myself this game. The only things outside my usual town meta were these:

I'm like 50% sure he's scum.

Yeah, but I'm not scum so I don't have a QT.

Which I posted because apparently I have to do a better job at convincing everyone else I'm town.

[pacovf]

Good job. Shot out to WW and Awaclus, who played really well. I think we were unlucky with Jake being the Moon King, we would have played differently. Doesn't help tht I wasn't online at all the last 3 hours.

SA, I thought you actually played reasonably well, you were just unlucky with the way wagons formed.

[SpaceAnemone]

Awaclus...wasn't himself this game, in the best way possible.

I was totally myself this game. The only things outside my usual town meta were these:

I'm like 50% sure he's scum.

Yeah, but I'm not scum so I don't have a QT.

Which I posted because apparently I have to do a better job at convincing everyone else I'm town.

Yeah, I found you much easier to play with and townread this game than previously!

I'd vote for you for MVP over WW for this game :-) You drove the massclaim for all the right reasons, while WW made a big show of voting recklessly and would have gotten town quickhammered for an almost certain loss if scum had been a little more on the ball.

[schadd]

i guess all RR claims look like fakeclaims to me

[Witherweaver]

Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/GQpqquub6T2w

The mass claim is something that has to be planned for by scum, like anything else.

Wow, even the speccy scumread me! What can I do to stop everyone wanting to mislynch me all the time? It's really depressing :-(

I mentioned this in my reread; you have a very cautious town style.  This isn't bad at all, but overall scum has a tendency to play similarly.  (Looks like hedgey scum, basically.) I was aware of this aspect of your meta, however, and it factored quite a bit into how I ended up reading you at the end.  So it's not a terrible thing.

[Witherweaver]

Awaclus...wasn't himself this game, in the best way possible.

I was totally myself this game. The only things outside my usual town meta were these:

I'm like 50% sure he's scum.

Yeah, but I'm not scum so I don't have a QT.

Which I posted because apparently I have to do a better job at convincing everyone else I'm town.

Yeah, I found you much easier to play with and townread this game than previously!

I'd vote for you for MVP over WW for this game :-) You drove the massclaim for all the right reasons, while WW made a big show of voting recklessly and would have gotten town quickhammered for an almost certain loss if scum had been a little more on the ball.

I mean, this is flawed.  You're overestimating how easy it is for scum to quickhammer and assuming I would just sit back and munch on popcorn and watch it happen.

In fact, I'd argue it had a very large influence in winning us the game.  Jake voting you when you had a wagon was a huge factor into me seeing him as scum.

[Awaclus]

What I want to point out is that town, in general, did play very well in this game. Not just me and WW, but everyone. Which is to say that it isn't an unreasonable thing to expect, and results were obviously great.

[Witherweaver]

Also, it was scum that came in and made a big deal about quickhammers being scary.

Gkrieg and I came in with productive voting.  Look at all the activity it caused.

[Witherweaver]

Which isn't to say that it's without risk, but risks can be good. 

[JaketheBaseballGod22]

Awaclus...wasn't himself this game, in the best way possible.

I was totally myself this game. The only things outside my usual town meta were these:

I'm like 50% sure he's scum.

Yeah, but I'm not scum so I don't have a QT.

Which I posted because apparently I have to do a better job at convincing everyone else I'm town.

Yeah, I found you much easier to play with and townread this game than previously!

I'd vote for you for MVP over WW for this game :-) You drove the massclaim for all the right reasons, while WW made a big show of voting recklessly and would have gotten town quickhammered for an almost certain loss if scum had been a little more on the ball.

I mean, this is flawed.  You're overestimating how easy it is for scum to quickhammer and assuming I would just sit back and munch on popcorn and watch it happen.

In fact, I'd argue it had a very large influence in winning us the game.  Jake voting you when you had a wagon was a huge factor into me seeing him as scum.

The only reason I even voted was that pacovf kept telling me to put my vote somewhere in the QT

[pacovf]

I have a few thoughts, will post them when I have the time.

[gkrieg13]

Also, it was scum that came in and made a big deal about quickhammers being scary.

Gkrieg and I came in with productive voting.  Look at all the activity it caused.

I agree with this. I think the early wagons were very important.

[Witherweaver]

Right, but ultimately it was because you were scum (whether you wanted to or you were following your partner's advice).  Note that Pacovf's reasoning was to enable quickhammering.

My point is that such voting by scum gives information.

There was a lot of argument that 'reckless' voting is scummy because .. well, by some leap of logic, lynches are just going to magically happen.  First, if town are quick to vote and quick to move votes, that actually makes quickhammering harder, not easier.  Yes wagons can get to the critical L-3, L-2 points, but the quickhammer still has to happen, which requires scum being around, coordinating, and executing.  During that time the votes can move.  It's not like it just happens.

Second, voting and wagons force reactions, and reactions are how we get information.  Early on Pac said there's no information from random voting, except LaLight came in with a flurry of posts insisting we all be careful and unvote, and Pac (allegedly!) voted LaLight because of this. 

[pacovf]

To be fair, I think I played very close to my town self up until the massclaim approached, so I think anything you see there is just confirmation bias. Well, I avoided interacting with Jake, because his thought process confuses me, and I was scared I would end up forcing myself to vote for the Moon King. After the massclaim, the number of options open to scum that didn't lead to an automatic loss down the line were heavily reduced, so that's when my play was heavily affected by my alignment. Also, blitz. Not enough time to reread and look for things.

I think something I disliked about the setup is that even if everybody thinks a specific scum is town, scum can still lose. It forces your hand a whole lot more than in normal mafia games. If early on town targets the Moon King, there is nothing scum can do, they just lose.

I think quickhammers are definitely a thing in this setup, but only when two scum are online at the same time. Three, that's too hard. But two can pass by way faster than any one can react. You need town already in the wagon to see what's happening, not just any town. But yeah, the early concern was overblown (I did vote Lalight over it).

Also, Jake, you need to learn to stay focused under pressure. You flailed a lot this morning. :p When I told you to vote, I don't think I told you to vote for SA, just to vote. The more votes around, the better the chances that town ends up at L-2.

For the record, 3v3, as defined in the setup, is an unavoidable win for scum. If that had been changed after the fact, I would have been extremely annoyed. Possibly the game would be better with forced lynches, but you can't just change the rules mid game...

Oh, and gkrieg was extremely scary as IC. Pretty much every time he asked a question I started sweating :p It's uh fortunate that he wasn't online that often.

[Witherweaver]

I think you were a lot like your town self, at least as much as I could remember.  I was still pretty null on you when we were arguing through that one part of the day.

[mcmcsalot]

i think it's interesting that this setup almost reverses the normal town/mafia win chances. It's
Like in a normal game of town catches scum d1 it's over and even if they mis the first day or so they can still come back. In this game it's really if scum lynches town d1 it's game over, and even if they get lynched they as long as it isn't the king they still have a chance to comback.

[pacovf]

I think you were a lot like your town self, at least as much as I could remember.  I was still pretty null on you when we were arguing through that one part of the day.

I noticed I did a few things differently as the game evolved, but not telling you what those are

[Awaclus]

In retrospect, I must admit that I didn't consider the possibility of 2 scum fakeclaiming the same PR. But now that I've considered it, it really wouldn't have changed anything because it would have sucked for scum.

[faust]

Like in a normal game of town catches scum d1 it's over

This is a bit of a self-fulfiling prophecy. If scum thinks that their chances of winning are basically zero with a D1 scum lynch and they play accordingly, and then scum gets lynched, of course they will lose because they presumably spent a large amount of time defending their partner.

[pacovf]

In retrospect, I must admit that I didn't consider the possibility of 2 scum fakeclaiming the same PR. But now that I've considered it, it really wouldn't have changed anything because it would have sucked for scum.

It would have been fun though