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[ashersky]

Fair reread by Faust there.

[ashersky]

For some reason today feels like LyLo to me. I really want to figure this game out. I'm starting to realize that it might be too early for that.

Not sure why you feel that way.  This setup is familiar.

You are all sorts of different.  Maybe it's just been awhile?

[gkrieg13]

For some reason today feels like LyLo to me. I really want to figure this game out. I'm starting to realize that it might be too early for that.

Not sure why you feel that way.  This setup is familiar.

You are all sorts of different.  Maybe it's just been awhile?

No he definitely feels different this game.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay so first off my thoughts on fausts case on roadrunner it has some validity but I think overall is pretty weak and doesn't make me find Faust any townier.

I agree rr finding Joseph towny pre claim is scummy, but I mentioned this very thing about Faust in my case on him and he claimed it wasn't scummy. I think the weird votig and inviting of jake is due to really wanting to continue pushing a jake lynch and being frustrated that other players are preventing it because they won't lynch jake day one and not because of a town read. This is backed up I think by roadrunners refusal to do jakes top 3 plan which I don't think is buddying me it's just smart. Then the weirdness around the robz wagon which I do think is scummy and lots of general useless back and forth with jake.

Overall I really don't think it's a strong case and makes Faust come out looking scummier in my opinion.

[mcmcsalot]

There is a right and wrong way to play.

Right now Jake and I are playing the wrong way

Vote: RR

Am I already there? Dunno. But RR is clearly the most anti-town force around and he knows it and thinks he can get away with it.

Again I think this is pretty over exaggerated, jake has been as much anti town and you constantly defend him, Joseph has been anti town though you can't vote him. You could say I'm pretty anti toe with how limited I have been able to be around.

[faust]

Okay so first off my thoughts on fausts case on roadrunner it has some validity but I think overall is pretty weak and doesn't make me find Faust any townier.

I agree rr finding Joseph towny pre claim is scummy, but I mentioned this very thing about Faust in my case on him and he claimed it wasn't scummy. I think the weird votig and inviting of jake is due to really wanting to continue pushing a jake lynch and being frustrated that other players are preventing it because they won't lynch jake day one and not because of a town read. This is backed up I think by roadrunners refusal to do jakes top 3 plan which I don't think is buddying me it's just smart. Then the weirdness around the robz wagon which I do think is scummy and lots of general useless back and forth with jake.

Overall I really don't think it's a strong case and makes Faust come out looking scummier in my opinion.

*sigh*

[faust]

Also I actually found Joseph scummy early D1; not intially, but then I got convinced - what do you make of that?

[mcmcsalot]

As to gkrieg's case on EFHW, I just don't think EFHW comes off that scummy. I think the day one lynch was pretty botched from the quelling of natural cases and the forcing of would lynch consolidation so early and then arguments dominating the discussion. Oh also I think EFHW's defense was solid, still town reading her.

[mcmcsalot]

I know they are rereads not cases but the rr reread did end in you voting him so it's kinda a case man.

Also I actually found Joseph scummy early D1; not intially, but then I got convinced - what do you make of that?

So I may need to re read early early day one but I remember you found Joseph towny early day one then when we got super close to lynching him you came around to thinking he's scummy(I think because it would be worth it for scum to flip a read if it gets an early town lynch) and then Joseph claimed.

So you are saying before you found him scummy then were convinced he was towny, then flipped again to support his lynch?

[mcmcsalot]

Ah here it is!

Joseph's a bit out there. He tends to do that stuff as either alignment, but I think as scum he'd feel forced to do something like that while town play might be a bit more natural. So slight scum read on that.

And then yes shortly thereafter

I think Joseph is town by now. This whole thing is on a different scale than what I expect from scum!Joseph.

EFHW is a lot less scummy than McGarn was. I don't think I want to vote there anymore. What else do we have? I do not want to vote for Jake. Calamitas will probably continue to do nothing today and then spend D2 talking about probabilities, which is really annoying, but I don't think I can do anything about it. Robz and mcmc are non-factors in my head, which is weird. Awaclus is a mild town read.

Vote: Robz

And then eventually

So here is the thing. Joseph right now, I think feels that he has a free pass, as multiple people have said he is townie if he acts crazy. So he has to continue that charade for the sake of conforming to what multiple people say they expect of him. He has to continue to be weird and strange and nonsensical and do annoying things. Because that is what the people want from him. I think if he were town, he would just stop acting that way and act with a semblance of normalcy. He hasn't, so I don't think he is town and I think the people who are not voting for him should listen to me, even I am a new player. I am coming at this without bias or much previous knowledge and I think others are overly relying on their previous biases and expectations.

You know, there is actually a lot of sense in this.

Vote: Joseph this is L-1.

So yes you briefly found Joseph scummy but then decided to defend him when I think he was still super scummy looking and you push for a different known town player, and then decide
To go back to Joseph placing him to L-1 as I said before totally something scum is willing to do.

So yea doesn't really change my opinion.

[mcmcsalot]

I like a Vote: RR. People were liking voting RR, why did that cease to be a thing?

Mostly because I'm less worried about scum!RR than about, say, scum!EFHW or scum!ash.

reply 1148

But but but

I like a TWM/mcmc/RR team right now.

I also don't like posts about scum teams. I could fit in ash somewhere up there I suppose.

reply 1123

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

[mcmcsalot]

I think that a RR lynch would be a pretty good lynch at this point because he is "acti-lurking" (I think that's the right word) and idk why. Can you explain RR?

You are also acti-lurking. The fact that you think something is scummy that you yourself are doing is quite telling of your alignment.

So this looks scummy to me, I think awac is lurking pretty hard himself so super weird to call jake out for calling rr out about it.

[mcmcsalot]

I like a Vote: RR. People were liking voting RR, why did that cease to be a thing?

I'm with you.  Just want to sort out gkrieg first, see if that wagon will fly/roll.

What's your full case on gkrieg?

[mcmcsalot]

That said, it's not impossible for scum!gkrieg to have forgotten about killing Calamitas. But it's way less likely than that he's town.

Do you think all his mis-statements in the reread were also due to being disengaged?  I suppose it's possible.  It's not good scum play to post a reread like that.  But he could be a disengaged scum, too.

Actually, no.  He is more than just disengaged.  Choosing the mcmc wagon to analyze is contrived and his referring to all the other wagons as mislynches is very strange coming from town.  His allocation of town and scum points seems random at best.  So maybe the Calamitas thing was an honest mistake, but I still think he looks very scummy here.

I could get behind a gkrieg lynch though I think it's objectively worse than mine on Faust.

Faust/gkrieg/awa?

[faust]

So yes you briefly found Joseph scummy but then decided to defend him when I think he was still super scummy looking and you push for a different known town player, and then decide
To go back to Joseph placing him to L-1 as I said before totally something scum is willing to do.

So yea doesn't really change my opinion.

Why would scum!me be willing to put Joseph to L-1? I don't think that's a move that I am particularly likely to make as scum; it only makes me look bad and achieves nothing else.

[mcmcsalot]

I still think lynching one of RR or jake is the way to go. The cases that are being presented on other: gkrieg, EFHW, awaclus just aren't doing it for me.

Cases on those two are always going to seem stronger than cases on the rest of us. I guess I'm up for either of them, though.  Which would be more informative?  I'm thinking Jake would be since he has actually said stuff.

I agree with EFHW though I think a jake lynch is still worse than a Faust/gkrieg lynch, I feel like inactive town(myself included) is making it seem like no one agrees with the cases on anyone but obviously anti-town players and I think scum is happy letting that happen.

[faust]

That said, it's not impossible for scum!gkrieg to have forgotten about killing Calamitas. But it's way less likely than that he's town.

Do you think all his mis-statements in the reread were also due to being disengaged?  I suppose it's possible.  It's not good scum play to post a reread like that.  But he could be a disengaged scum, too.

Actually, no.  He is more than just disengaged.  Choosing the mcmc wagon to analyze is contrived and his referring to all the other wagons as mislynches is very strange coming from town.  His allocation of town and scum points seems random at best.  So maybe the Calamitas thing was an honest mistake, but I still think he looks very scummy here.

I could get behind a gkrieg lynch though I think it's objectively worse than mine on Faust.

Faust/gkrieg/awa?

You are way off.

What do you make of gkrieg's townslip? Do you think it was fake?

[faust]

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

So here's the thing: I have town reads. They are Joseph, Jake, gkrieg, Awaclus. The rest is scummy territory, and I'm trying to figure out who makes sense as scum. When I say I'm more worried about scum!EFHW than scum!RR, I don't mean I think EFHW is more likely to be scum, I mean that if EFHW is scum, she poses a bigger threat to us than RR does if he is scum.

Can you explain what maeks EFHW and ash such strong townread for you?

[mcmcsalot]

So yes you briefly found Joseph scummy but then decided to defend him when I think he was still super scummy looking and you push for a different known town player, and then decide
To go back to Joseph placing him to L-1 as I said before totally something scum is willing to do.

So yea doesn't really change my opinion.

Why would scum!me be willing to put Joseph to L-1? I don't think that's a move that I am particularly likely to make as scum; it only makes me look bad and achieves nothing else.

Ugh post deletion again.....

You would be willing because it ends day one early and lynches town!!!!

I talked extensively to robz about this. People think the most important thing for scum is looking towny and that they are willing to bus early and never want to join two wagons late. In reality scum wants most of all to lynch town. If town is lynched scum isn't and that's the way scum wins most of the time, getting a lynch on town.

[faust]

You would be willing because it ends day one early and lynches town!!!!

I talked extensively to robz about this. People think the most important thing for scum is looking towny and that they are willing to bus early and never want to join two wagons late. In reality scum wants most of all to lynch town. If town is lynched scum isn't and that's the way scum wins most of the time, getting a lynch on town.

That would be true, except an L-1 wagon that early on leads to a lynch maybe 10% of the time. That's just not a prospect that seems worth the risk.

[mcmcsalot]

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

So here's the thing: I have town reads. They are Joseph, Jake, gkrieg, Awaclus. The rest is scummy territory, and I'm trying to figure out who makes sense as scum. When I say I'm more worried about scum!EFHW than scum!RR, I don't mean I think EFHW is more likely to be scum, I mean that if EFHW is scum, she poses a bigger threat to us than RR does if he is scum.

Can you explain what maeks EFHW and ash such strong townread for you?

Okay I agree scum!efhw and scum!ash are more dangerous.

Both of these people have not fallen into the just lynch the easy candidate or the come on these are the only wagons we can make work traps. I think not only is scum likely to make those kind of statements, I think scum is even more likely to go along with it. Ash is also trying to get you lynched and has similar reads to me, EFHW I similarly has reads I agree with and defended me with solid reasons when I was under suspicion.

[faust]

While I'm glad you no longer think I'm scummy in 20 posts you go from me/rr/TWM to being less worried about scum!rr than scum!efhw and scum!ash? Ash and EFHW are like my strongest town reads at this point so what up with this?

So here's the thing: I have town reads. They are Joseph, Jake, gkrieg, Awaclus. The rest is scummy territory, and I'm trying to figure out who makes sense as scum. When I say I'm more worried about scum!EFHW than scum!RR, I don't mean I think EFHW is more likely to be scum, I mean that if EFHW is scum, she poses a bigger threat to us than RR does if he is scum.

Can you explain what maeks EFHW and ash such strong townread for you?

Okay I agree scum!efhw and scum!ash are more dangerous.

Both of these people have not fallen into the just lynch the easy candidate or the come on these are the only wagons we can make work traps. I think not only is scum likely to make those kind of statements, I think scum is even more likely to go along with it. Ash is also trying to get you lynched and has similar reads to me, EFHW I similarly has reads I agree with and defended me with solid reasons when I was under suspicion.

Isn't gkrieg's whole point on EFHW that she did just that?

[mcmcsalot]

You would be willing because it ends day one early and lynches town!!!!

I talked extensively to robz about this. People think the most important thing for scum is looking towny and that they are willing to bus early and never want to join two wagons late. In reality scum wants most of all to lynch town. If town is lynched scum isn't and that's the way scum wins most of the time, getting a lynch on town.

That would be true, except an L-1 wagon that early on leads to a lynch maybe 10% of the time. That's just not a prospect that seems worth the risk.

That's an outrageous statistic, yea day one is the day we make the most wagons and those wagons often don't lead to a lynch because the person in question claims and we believe them. You know what else scum wants, to know what roles everyone has. Win win.

[faust]

"has reads I agree with" and "defended me" are very bad things to base your reads on.

[mcmcsalot]

"has reads I agree with" and "defended me" are very bad things to base your reads on.

In isolation when you put it like that yea. Her reads aligning with mine i don't think is terrible to base a read on and it is not that she defended me, it is that I know I am town and I think she correctly defended me using logic and reasoning that makes sense, and it is consistent with her reads on me in the past. Unlike your floppy floppy defense of Joseph and your bad reasons for finding jake towny earlier on.